Fines And Felony Charges For Letting Your Car Run On Restaurant Vegetable Oil?
from the not-such-a-good-thing dept
There have been numerous stories recently about people converting their cars to run on leftover vegetable oil from restaurant kitchens. Many restaurants need to get rid of that oil anyway, and are more than happy to give it away for nothing or next to nothing (though, obviously that would change as demand grows). While this seems like a great example of one way that people can help take a step away from the oil addiction the government is apparently afraid of, it seems that (oops) the government isn't going to make it very easy for people.Yehuda Berlinger points us to the bureaucratic insanity faced by a retired couple in Illinois who simply want to drive their vegetable oil-fueled car, but now face huge fines and possible felony charges for doing so. The details sound like they're right out of a bad movie. They've owned the car for while and they fuel it up using leftover restaurant cooking oil. However, earlier this year, two officials knocked on their door from the Illinois Department of Revenue, telling the couple that they were violating the law by not paying an additional motor fuel tax. The couple did the calculations on how much tax they needed to pay, and while annoying, it wasn't outrageous. However, in order to pay, they first needed to get approved for a license as a "special fuel supplier" or "receiver." Except... the process to become approved for such a license requires a $2,500 bond, and the forms are designed for businesses not individuals. The couple then received a letter saying they needed to stop being a special fuel supplier or receiver until they were licensed to be such -- but the details of how you qualify to be either a special fuel receive or supplier showed that they qualified as neither. Yet, the state still insisted that they had to get such a license, because otherwise they had no way to collect the tax. They then noted that operating as a special fuel supplier or receiver without the necessary license was a felony.
The government says that it's trying to make the process easier, but the whole concept seems ridiculous. As the guy notes, based on these arguments, shouldn't Toyota Prius drivers also have to pay a special motor fuel tax for the times when it's driving using electricity rather than fuel? After all, what's the real difference between powering the car with electricity generated by the vehicle compared to powering it with leftover vegetable oil? As for the government making the process easier, it's not like this is an entirely new concept. Over in Wales there was nearly an identical situation about five years ago that actually resulted in police impounding the vegetable oil-powered cars. It's difficult to see how you move people away from an addiction to oil when you make it impossible to actually stop using oil cost effectively.
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Tax cooking oil as fuel?
Seems to my a hybrid uses the petrol to make electricity so you're not really making "fuel"...else my fuel injectors would be mixing up special fuel mixtures of air, octane, pentane etc...
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Re:
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If this is true, then...
I think it's high time for a revolution. Our government is getting out of hand.
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Re: If this is true, then...
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Whoa
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???
However, earlier this year, two officials knocked on their door from the Illinois Department of Revenue, telling the couple that they were violating the law by not paying an additional motor fuel tax. The couple did the calculations on how much tax they needed to pay, and while annoying, it wasn't outrageous. However, in order to pay, they first needed to get approved for a license as a "special fuel supplier" or "receiver." Except... the process to become approved for such a license requires a $2,500 bond, and the forms are designed for businesses not individuals. The couple then received a letter saying they needed to stop being a special fuel supplier or receiver until they were licensed to be such -- but the details of how you qualify to be either a special fuel receive or supplier showed that they qualified as neither. Yet, the state still insisted that they had to get such a license, because otherwise they had no way to collect the tax. They then noted that operating as a special fuel supplier or receiver without the necessary license was a felony.
What? After reading that several times the best I can get from it is that they are required to pay a tax but they are not qualified to register for the license that is a prerequisite for paying the tax?
If using alternate fuel sources is going to cost just as much money (but even more effort) then what motivation is there to use them? It's less headache to just keep using that gas drinking SUV with its 15mpg engine.
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Re: ???
What? After reading that several times the best I can get from it is that they are required to pay a tax but they are not qualified to register for the license that is a prerequisite for paying the tax?
>>
It's an old strategy that your elected officials use to control actions without enacting controversial laws that might raise public awareness of exactly what they're doing. It's how ATF controls alcohol production and gun sales, it's how the DEA controls marijuana sales, it's how governments of all stripes grab control over behaviour they wish to eradicate.
Require a tax stamp, license or permit
Don't issue said stamp, license or permit
Arrest violators for tax evasion
It's how the government finally jailed Al Capone. It's how Harry Anslinger made pot illegal - it's an old trick my friend.
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beauty
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Genius
All this to collect the equivilant of $4.07 / month?
Surely someone involved must have hit the point where they said "hang on this makes no sense - stop!". Instead they have insisted they pay over the $2500 bond and register as a supplier when it is clear from theior own forms that they don't qualify to do so
Pure genius
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The STATE = THIEVES in this case.
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yup
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Re: yup
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Ummm...
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Re: Ummm...
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I agree
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Cars on Vegtable Oil?
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Re: Cars on Vegtable Oil?
Rick
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Other tax ideas
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When will we get a tax rebate on ...
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Re:
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When will we get a tax rebate on ...
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Felony Charges
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That's just insane.
And what about walking, or pushing your car? If I push my car a foot or two, must I pay a tax for that?
Sounds like it's time to dump all the cars into the Boston Harbor~~
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There's a ray of hope in this story...
"State Sen. Frank Watson, R-Greenville, introduced Senate Bill 267, which would curtail government interference regarding alternative fuels, such as vegetable oil. A public hearing on the bill will be at 1 p.m. today in Room 400 of the state Capitol.
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hydro
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hideho
I agree
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Veggie fuled autos!
Charles Boyle
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Wow, go Gov
Does that mean all cars that use E85 have you pay a partial tax on the part that is ethanol if they mix it themselves? Wouldn't that mean that you pay a tax on the gasoline, a tax on the ethanol, and $2500 just to pay the tax on the ethanol?
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Re: Wow, go Gov
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What about other alternative fuels?
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A.
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veggie oil cars
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watch out
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my last post
/clarify!
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Money from fines, money from taxes.
The problem is that, with biodiesel, there is no tax base to calculate a tax on it's use nor is there any way to determine how many road miles it is used with. With some of the new 'untaxed' alternative fuels on the road, I can see a day coming that you are going to be required to place a 'tax-tracker' in your vehicle that will track the actual miles you drive on the roads and highways. The government will charge you a tax per mile and send you a bill to collect. (Get caught without your tracker on your car = fines, jail, worse) That way they can prove that you drove X amount of miles (regardless of fuel source) and owe X amount for using the roads and highways.
Of course, this will take billions in tax dollars to implement, but that is what the government does best. Spend our tax dollars and find ways to take more tax dollars from us.
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Re: Money from fines, money from taxes.
The problem with that is that the Constitution protects us from a direct, unapportioned Federal tax. The big tax items are booze, smokes, and gas and the tax is indirect even if the businesses pass on the pain. If you take the business out of the loop then only the state can tax your gas and even then it is dependant on how the state laws are written.
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Re: Re: Money from fines, money from taxes.
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Re: Money from fines, money from taxes.
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Alternative Fuels
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Bizarre
Second, I live in IL, and the IDR is normally pretty helpful and straightforward. The problem is we're talking about something new. In all likelihood, some neighbor, pissed about the 50 gallon drums of waste in the garage next door, called someone to make trouble. Now the IDR doesn't know what to do about the whole thing. They've never had to license someone to handle waste-as-a-fuel... so they don't have the appropriate forms for that, but they've already made a determination. They're kinda like umpires, you never back down from a decision you've already made.
Also, the problem with dealing with any bureaucracy, is that arguing with some phone jockey at the IDR about forms that don't make sense is like arguing with the McDonalds drive-up woman that your watch says they're still serving breakfast. They don't understand, nor do they really care that you think you're a special circumstance. That lady on the phone just wants to point you in the right direction, and go home at the end of the day, just like anyone else.
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Re: Bizarre
Don't presume that when I say there needs to be a revolution, that I mean we need a change in the president. I don't want to have to pick between the lesser of two evils anymore. The country has gotten far far away from what it started as, and it's time for a change. From the ground up, mind you.
If the government didn't know how to handle the situation at hand, they should *not* have ruled in favor of themselves, but instead they should have ruled in favor of the people. It's not *our* fault the government is a big dumb machine that takes forever to catch up to change. If they don't have a system in place to tax vegitable oil, then it *isn't* taxed.
The United States is no longer rules by the people for the people, and to put it in *their* language, that's a breach of contract. I read news stories *every single day* that dishearten and sadden me about the state of this [once] Great Nation now turned Corporation. We have this example, and the RIAA buying laws that remove rights from the people, not to mention buying the *tax bought* S.W.A.T. team to make raids on the people who pay their salary.
I am not an Umpire that will not back down, I'm a fan of The Game (soon to be trademarked by the NFL) who is sick of the teams buying off the umpires.
We are reaching critical mass with the shit that the normal citizen will take from our governemnt, and you can bet that the government is not going to go quietly into the night, so Revolution is the only answer. We are [again] in a situation of taxation without representation, and it was a good enough reson then-- it's a good enough reason now.
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Re: Re: Bizarre
Sadly, the legal beagles took that avenue away from us by 1)making tax protests only marginally lawful; and 2)using withholding tax as a means to force people to pay their taxes.
Only as a matter of discussion, I strongly suspect that if as few as 10% of people in any political jurisdiction refused to pay their taxes, any government would have no choice but to listen and change. If 25% refused, it would be a slam-dunk to change governments attitude. It's my understanding, however, that encouraging or abetting others to not pay their taxes is a crime of serious proportions that is probably more punishable than murder.
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Re: Bizarre
now i know why nothing ever changes.
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Re: Bizarre
If you're content with the great slide toward mediocrity, look away from your TiVo replay of 'American Idol' long enough to raise your hand and say "whatever". If you still believe in striving for excellence, breakdowns such as this should create a host of negative reactions that spur you to action. The collective "we" is as crappy as we let ourselves be.
And yes, I do think there's nothing wrong with this county that a good, old-fashioned revolution (probably in the form of a tax boycott) wouldn't cure. It's long past time that the citizenry of the states and the nation took back the management of their respective political entities. It's not this story that causes me to think that way, it's the collected observations of a lifetime watching governments (local, state and federal) grow like dried sponges soaking up the pool of wealth in this country with little in return for it.
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the tax man
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Don't forget about the Sun
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Wind
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This reminds me of...
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Re: If this is true, then...
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Makes perfect sense to me..
So if you have a vehicle that uses any fuel other than petrol you must pay an additional "road-user charge" based on the odometer reading. The system is completely consistent, doesn't matter if it's diesel, vegetable oil, electricity, hydrogen or compressed air. If it's not petrol you pay road-user tax by the km.
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/commercial/ruc.html
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Call Al
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Veggie oil fuel tax?
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Common Sense
For all of its flaws I can not imagine a greater country. The flaws are clashes of ideas and forks in the road. In a "perfect" country these differences are repressed. In our country they are aired in public and voted upon. Why would anyone want to destroy that?
As far as Mr. Wetzel's story goes, here is some theory. I am quite certain that Mr. Wetzel is not the only person in the state of Illinois able to convert an egine to burn vegetable oil. I am also quite certain the the IRS has not issued a crackdown on these felons for evading fuel taxes as I have not seen a rash of these cases. So I pose the idea that we are dealing with an isolated case of poor judgement or some local vendetta. Perhaps an investigation is in order.
Now I have some fact for you. Our system and all of its flaws appear to be working. Senate Bill 0267 drafted by Senator Franck C. Watson was given a "Do Pass" by the Senate Revenue Commitee on March 2nd and is scheduled for a second reading March 6th. A bill can become law after it's third reading. This bill is an ammendment to the original legislation which restricts the legislation from applying to "personal, non-commercial" use of vegetable oil and similar fuels. You can readily obtain the status of this bill at www.ilga.gov along with everything else they do.
Before you dismiss this post and just read on, consider what has taken place. A small number of people were being wrongly taxed by the IRS. Local representation was alerted to the situation and took action. As a result new legislation could pass within a month that will nullify this tax for this man and others to come. This sound a lot like what our country's founding fathers had in mind.
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Re: Common Sense
Sorry. but you must have a pretty poor imagination. Your post reeks of ethnocentrism BTW.
I agree though that our country is what our founding father had in mind. They were the elite land owners of the time and they started class warfare before we were even born. One thing has always held true since the original revolution of this country, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Of course it is hard to even know what is going on when we are all constantly bombarded by propaganda. On the federal level representation of the people hardly exists at all. On the other hand state governments do fair better in looking after their citizens.
The root problem is corruption and money. Just imagine this, on a federal level there are less than a thousand representatives for over 300 million Americans. Does this concentration of power even make sense? Politicians will NEVER reform a system that keeps them in power and that's probably why the clause about the right of the people to abolish our government exists in our constitution.
It is our right to institute a peaceful revolution and refashion our government in order to deal with the 21st century. We cannot keep at it with a 19th century mentality if we really want to address the problems of the new emerging global community.
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Yet another Republican tactic to help big oil
Strike another blow against freedom and the un-american way. They seem to be putting down everything that made this country great at one time.
if the issue is a tax thing and only that why was it handled so harshly you might think that they were smuggling drugs or rape of a person -- oh wait that would not have been as harsh
I wonder if they ever remember reading this:
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Re: Yet another Republican tactic to help big oil
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Here it comes
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Re: Here it comes
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Re: Hybrid "electric fuel"
Pure-electric cars would have more of a problem with this. However, a strong argument could be made that electricity itself doesn't qualify as a "fuel."
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Smokescreen
Of course they will object if you use a different fuel without paying them taxes for it. They aren't interested in making it easy to use a different fuel, they are just interested in making money, and if they are not making money off of you then you are stealing from them, just like the RIAA and filesharing.
Hell if the government can order people to not make surplus crops because it would violate the Commerce Clause, even if nobody would be making a profit from the extra crops, then they will stop anything that they perceive to be circumventing the economy. Big oil owns the government, and the government owns your ass.
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Watch out if you brew your own beer as well.
The tax is on commercial fuel. My car does not use commerial fuel, it uses recycled cooking oil, hence I do not have to pay the tax.
Is there a law that prohibits me to use a fuel in my personal car that is not subject to the fuel tax? If not, you have no case.
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Fuel tax on hybrids.
Interesting you should say that. In my previous hometown of Lincoln, Nebraska, there was a huge contraversy over that fact that hybrid owners were being charged extra when they licensed their vehicles because they weren't paying their "fair share" of gasoline tax. I don't remember from what level (city, county, or state) the tax came, but I believe it was later reversed by a lawsuit.
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let's go down to springfield, in masse, and make every congressperson sign a form requiring them to take action...if they refuse, let's vote them out...like Donald Trump "You're FIRED" go home...now!
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The Illinois Catch-22
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wrong
Go ahead and run on fuel without paying taces. but don't you fiucking dare go anywhere near the ROADS that I pay for then you worthless peices of shit.
The government has no problem with this fiuel.
But of course., WORTHLESS web sites like this, an untalented "journalists" who have no jobs so they rely on internet have to make up bogus stories hoping that there are enough lemmings to lap it up like they do a man's seme's in the alley.
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Re: wrong
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Re: wrong
I say these people are preventing this oil from being dumped in a landfill, for all you know. they are probably cleaning up the environment well worth more than the 4.00 tax owed each month.
You will note that if they tried to pay an additional 48.00 and change on their state income tax form under a label of "Other" the matter would be cleared up in no time.
What is clear to me is the fact that the people running the fraud known as State of Illinois are more interested in control than any other single issue.
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Re: wrong
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Right
The government has no problem with this fuel - it has a problem with halfwit people that don't do a quick cost benefit tradeoff in their head before chasing some old folks for a few bucks.
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!!!
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Keep Government OUT OF IT!
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My Toyota Prius Hybrid Gets From 57-67 Miles Per G
Meanwhile in Pasadena CA, My Toyota Prius Hybrid is getting from 57 Miles Per Gallon, All the way up to 67 Miles Per Gallon. I couldn't be more happy. And I've done the research, and guess what; The Toyota Hybrid is really and trully the very best Hybrid Made. Have a Great Day!!!
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How many batteries does that thing have? How are you going to dispose of them all?
I'm curious which is worse - extra fuel consumption over the year or millions of batteries rotting in landfills, spilling out acid, lead, and zinc.
hmmm
When those things all need replaced, you may well make up for what you saved in fuel in one quick stroke.
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REVOLUTION
REVOLT!
a new day is upon us!
a day of.....
REVOLUTION!!!
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Batteries are non hazardous and can be recycled.
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Batteries are non Hazardous!!!!
Second: batteries can be recycled, but that doesn't mean they are. I know I can dispose of batteries by simply putting them in a 50 gallon trash bag with all my other house hold garbage and Waste Management is not going to stop that. My Cell phone manufacture expects me to mail my Cell Phone NiCad battery back to them if it stops working....what is cheaper? Mail it back...or slip it into the garbage? Human nature is to take the path of least resistance, it is what it is, even if we are talking about a 40lb battery. How many of these Hybrid car batteries are going to make it to some place where they shouldn't? 15%? 10%? Especially considering the cost of just replacing it, there are going to be a substiantial amount of these that will make it into my drinking water!
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People are Bastards
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Silly people and silly problems
Most of you people whine because you don't want the government to tell you that you can't do something, but that is actually exactly what you want. You want the government to tell all americans that they can't buy those horrid SUV's, but that won't happen as long as the SUV's are more popular than you.
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my God
I know that there would be a great break out of the people if they knew, that they could save their hard earned dollars by using alternative fuels to power their vehicles and homes. We have been conditioned to believe that gas and electric is the only way to go. To pay the ever increasing cost of it.
The technology has been here for years and years to power our cars and our homes for little to no cost, but has been hidden from our site. Now it is time for America to know the truth.
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making your on full. if you can get away with it?
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EV1
EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV 1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,
EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,
EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1, EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,EV1,
thank you GM
Take a look, rent the video and then complain. whoooooo cares about fossil fuel.
http://ev1-club.power.net/
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Reply to Rick Corgait:
Rick: There is quite a bit of difference an end consumers using say 20 gallons of WVO a week vs your selling 10,000 gallons of it for that intended purpose. I suspect you need to talk to the fuel tax people for your state. May turn out you have to include a fuel road tax, but not state sales tax as vehicle fuels aren't normally taxed in that manner.
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TAX the TIRES for each vehicle.... no fuel tax...
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Used Vegetable Oil + Grilled Cheese = Yuck!
Beware!
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Ridiculous
This government is the biggest POS, lying, underhanded, criminal bunch I've ever seen. There IS NO "We the People" anymore, with regards to our government. They're practicing "divide and conquer" and friends, our asses have been conquered. I'm fucking sick of it.
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Fines And Felony Charges For Letting Your Car Run On Restaurant Vegetable Oil?
Pah, using veg oil to power your car seems like a real good idea. Did you know that it is a state crime for the IRS to step foot on your property without your permission?!?, and If you write to them telling them such, they have to ask your permission to enter your garden.
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