Verizon Wins Patent Case Against Vonage; Now Pushing To Shut Down Vonage Service

from the hurray-for-innovation dept

Thu, Mar 8th 2007 2:41pm — Mike Masnick

Following yesterday's request by Verizon that Vonage pay nearly $200 million for actually innovating while Verizon sat on the sidelines, a jury has sided with Verizon, and told Vonage to pay up. They didn't go all the way, however, finding Vonage only violated some patents, and saying the fine should be $58 million and 5.5% of future service revenue. Verizon, however, has also asked the judge to issue an injunction to shut down Vonage's service. Given the recent MercExchange/eBay Supreme Court decision hopefully the judge will realize that an injunction isn't reasonable here. Vonage, of course, will appeal, so this is anything but over. What will likely happen, though, is that Vonage will just settle the case, because at some point it's just cheaper to settle than to fight. Apparently, that's what you get for innovating as a small company these days.

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39 Comments

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a, 8 Mar 2007 @ 2:49pm

Innovative marketing maybe, nothing else.
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- Mike (profile), 8 Mar 2007 @ 3:03pm
  
  Re:
  Innovative marketing maybe, nothing else.
  
  And that's not important? What's important is what brings the net benefit to the world, and that takes marketing as well.
  
  Apple's innovations have mostly been in marketing, not technology -- and yet no one claims they're not innovative. Innovation involves a combination of factors, of which the technology is only one part.
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  - EdB, 8 Mar 2007 @ 10:53pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Innovative marketing IS important, but it doesn't justify stealing IP.
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    - Vincent Clement, 9 Mar 2007 @ 6:18am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      You mean patent violation. No theft of any property occurred. Granting broad and obvious patents is not justified.
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  - Steve, 6 Apr 2007 @ 5:21pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Well damn, if Apple doesn't, then name a successful company that DOES innovate (technologically). Let's just keep going until we can all say "that wasn't done before". You wont find one. Maybe you should look up the definition of of the word.
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Mattva01, 8 Mar 2007 @ 2:52pm

Ouch
Well I use Vonage, so I'd be really pissed if it got shut down.
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Anonymous Jerk, 8 Mar 2007 @ 4:54pm

Well, Verizon still sucks
And I, for one, will be sticking to my total boycott on all Verizon products. I'm also a Vonage customer.
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- Mark, 8 Mar 2007 @ 7:34pm
  
  Re: Well, Verizon still sucks
  Which Verizon are you speaking of?
  
  Ameritech?
  GTE?
  Bell Atlantic?
  All other gobbled up markets?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2007 @ 5:27pm

@ Mike

Yes because the first commercially available mouse and GUI are "marketing" innovations.
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- Richard Bennett (profile), 8 Mar 2007 @ 6:01pm
  
  Re: Apple sucks
  The first commercially available mouse and GUI were sold by Xerox.
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- KB, 9 Mar 2007 @ 1:52pm
  
  Re: Marketing
  Xerox invented GUI and mouse. Not Apple. Yes, Apple successfully marketed it. So, yes, marketing, not innovation.
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me, 8 Mar 2007 @ 5:40pm

i think he was referring to more recent developments (iPod maybe?)
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Wolf0579, 8 Mar 2007 @ 6:03pm

Verizon
Again, I'm happy to have left Verizon two years ago... I got sick of over-billing as a standard business practice. Now I have further reason to never do business with them in the future.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2007 @ 6:05pm

re: the Mouse
Yeah, ya dolt! The first commercially available mouse came almost two decades after it was invented.

Even before you shot yourself in the foot, Mike had a point that we often don't learn early: marketing is important.

I will say that marketing is important in its own place, but consider: without marketing, you're just a lonely guy in an abandoned storefront sitting on what may be the greatest invention ever to be never even noticed.
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- Bill Thornton, 8 Mar 2007 @ 7:31pm
  
  Re: re: the Mouse
  Well, i for one found that Vonage has its good and bad points. Good rate for service but their customer care dept is staffed with children and 3rd world country immigrants with a combined IQ of 7. Which makes dealing with a simple fucked-up router turn in to a 4 hour bitch session over the phone about who knows more about what.
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  - Mark, 8 Mar 2007 @ 7:35pm
    
    Re: Re: re: the Mouse
    IQ of 7? If tech the tech support you are speaking with has an IQ of 7, and it takes 4 hours to deal with a router issue, who should be bitching about who?
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  - jesse, 27 Mar 2007 @ 5:12pm
    
    Re: Re: re: the Mouse
    well, lets try not to discriminate 3rd world contries nor immigrant here and outside our country. Do you think this huge conglomerates don't know what they are doing especially in outsourcing ther customer service abroad. They do know that they are as skilled as us. perhaps better because they do have proper education than most of us the only difference is that they may not as proficient in english language than us but they do know how to handle customers even better because they have manners. I do call customer service from time to time and I find it obvious that they know how to repect people even over the phone. Bill, what I can say to you is that perhaps you did find a customer service representative who may have the same attitude as you do. That's why you are pissed off at them. I suggest try to be humble and nice and I'm telling it will make your life easy.
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  - Mike, 27 Mar 2007 @ 5:29pm
    
    Re: Re: re: the Mouse
    Bill, if you do feel that way Imagine how they think of you? they might be thinking if you are smarter than them then why call them and not just solve your own problem. Do not blame them for something you do not understand nor something you cannot resolve on your own. Work with them instead so your can have your problem resolved.
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  - third world person, 19 Apr 2007 @ 6:40pm
    
    Re: Re: re: the Mouse
    coming from a first world country does not make you any smarter than a person coming from a third world country. you may have all the conveniences that can make you do almost everything, but that does not make you any more smarter. if you cannot make "a simple fucked-up router" work, what does that tell me about you? -- that you know less.
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Bill, 8 Mar 2007 @ 7:44pm

Verizion
When they purchased Ameritech Mobile, I quit their service. Never regretted it, and have since started boycotting just about all things big!
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Todd Henkel, 8 Mar 2007 @ 11:38pm

Customer Service?
For those complaining about customer service from one of the lowest rate providers, what do you expect? No hold times into a customer service rep with 20 years experience?

Don't pay for McDonald's if you are expecting to be waited on as in a five star restaurant.
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Chris, 8 Mar 2007 @ 11:55pm

*Sigh*
Yes, the first GUI was made by Xerox, and almost all of apple's "innovation" can be attributed to the work of others. And as far as that "4 hour" router problem, read the damn manual. You plug it in, they get automatic IP's and you take the ethernet cable that comes with vonage and you plug into the back of the router. If that takes 4 hours for you to figure out then the only person you should be complaining to is yourself.
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tomthree, 9 Mar 2007 @ 12:26am

innovation
The innovation here is created by AUTHOR of these patents.

If Vonage truly infringed on these patents, the jury did the right thing by protecting and enforcing the ownership of this intellectual property .

This protection is what makes the United States a leader for ideas and innovation.

Another fundemental difference betwen the US and China.
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- Mike (profile), 9 Mar 2007 @ 2:57am
  
  Re: innovation
  The innovation here is created by AUTHOR of these patents.
  
  It's not innovation if it's obvious and the company doesn't do anything with it. It may be an "invention" but the patent system is supposed to promote innovation, not invention.
  
  If Vonage truly infringed on these patents, the jury did the right thing by protecting and enforcing the ownership of this intellectual property .
  
  By taking out the market leader to leave it for the high cost provider with the worse service? I don't see how that's a good thing for anyone.
  
  This protection is what makes the United States a leader for ideas and innovation.
  
  Someone sold you a line and you bought it, but this simply isn't true.
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- Vincent Clement, 9 Mar 2007 @ 6:24am
  
  Re: innovation
  Quote from the Verizon lawyer: "Patents encourage and protect innovations that benefit consumers, create jobs, and keep the economy growing"
  
  Exactly where is the innovation from Verizon that benefits consumers, creates jobs and keep the economy growing? It was Vonage that benefited consumers, created jobs and kept the economy growing.
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jj, 9 Mar 2007 @ 3:13am

I come up with so many innovative inventions only to find that someone has already patented them with failed products. The products however failed due to cheap workmanship and bad marketing.

I thought up the ideas on my own, but I have no right to create the as someone else patented them. How is that right. its not like I stole their idea.
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KevinG79, 9 Mar 2007 @ 6:08am

BULLSHIT
This is total bullshit and I am so sick of yet another big bad phone company giant getting their way. Patent infringements my ass. Vonage has done nothing but create a brilliant telephone service that people like me can actually..AFFORD. And the big bad assholes at the giant telco's just can't STAND to see some competition so they make up some BS about patents??? Obviously this judge was paid off. Times like these I really wish I was a judge. I would have kicked Verizon in the balls and told them to stop wasting my time.

Verizon is getting just as greedy and evil as the RIAA.
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tom, 9 Mar 2007 @ 6:50am

ownership
the true owner/s of any product or service should have the right to do what every they chose to do with there product or services.
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angry dude, 9 Mar 2007 @ 6:56am

Apple's innovations
I guess Steve Wozniak should be happy reading all this nonsense from Mike and other "techidiocy" commenters...
Never mind Apple is now one of the biggest patent pirates... Well this is the end of evolutions for all those big tech companies, Apple is no exception .

Get a life Mike, you are probably good at PR but nothing else.
Leave invention and innovation to others
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- Chris, 9 Mar 2007 @ 10:51am
  
  Re: Apple's innovations
  "Get a life Mike"
  
  Im just curious what your definition of "life" is?
  
  Considering Mike has what appears to be a very successful career, due to a borad education, I fail to see how you're in any position to be giving him advice.
  
  As far as Vonage goes they offered VoIP services, which in it's bare elements is just another way of transfering data over the internet. If Verizon holds that patent, then what the hell are they doing offering phone service anyway, they could collect the royalties and make billions more.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2007 @ 10:50am

its obviously no innovative for that small company if they stole verizons idea
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angry dude, 9 Mar 2007 @ 11:00am

Mike's education
"Considering Mike has what appears to be a very successful career, due to a borad education..."

Are you serious or just making fun of the poor Mike ?

On too many occasions Mike has shown absolute ignorance of:
1) intellectual property laws
2) basics of economics
3) technology matters

So where is his " borad education" exactly ?
Public relations BS ? Political propaganda ?
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Robert Martin, 9 Mar 2007 @ 11:17am

Raising Money
No wonder Vonnage gave me a really good deal to pay a year in advance!!! Too bad I did...
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Mar 2007 @ 2:10pm
  
  Re: Raising Money
  I saw the pay in advance great bargain, in my e-mail, and had just heard about the Vonage problem. I thought the same thing. Great time to offer such a great rate savings. I don't pay anything in advance anyway. Too much instability and etc.
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|333173|3|_||3, 10 Mar 2007 @ 3:19am

Apple Mice
Apple did not even keep up with mouse development. How many years did it take for them to improve from using one-button mice? Even on modern mice on Macs, they are oftem set up for both left and right mouse to act as the primary mouse button (I am talking about the demo macs in IT shops and the ones around the CS department at Uni. On my account I changed to use right mouse as secondary mouse.) The use of one-button mice must have held back FPSs on Macs for years, since even with WSAD controls, you still run out of buttons if you need some for Alt Fire. Forwards the nine-button mouse!
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old_cynic, 20 Mar 2007 @ 3:55am

which patents were infringed?
before leaping to either side I'd like to read teh infringed patents to see what was invented and what was stolen.

Anyone know the patent numbers?
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Brian Jerome, 9 Apr 2007 @ 11:32am

Who Knows What The Patents Were????
Does anyone know what these patents are? I mean the actual patents? Any ideas? All I can find is stuff that does not actually mention what it was.......we offer voip services as well, but I don't think we are violating any patents.
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- unni, 19 Apr 2007 @ 9:58am
  
  Re: Who Knows What The Patents Were????
  6,104,711
  6,359,880
  6,282,574
  
  http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1517
  
  :-)
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cheap battery, 5 Oct 2008 @ 11:51pm

battery
I do call customer service from time to time and I find it obvious that they know how to repect people even over the phone. Bill, what I can say to you is that perhaps you did find a customer service representative who may have the same attitude as you do. That's why you are pissed off at them. I suggest try to be humble and nice and I'm telling it will make your life easy.
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