RIAA University Campaign Sputters: Group Asked To Pay Up For Wasting School's Time
from the sticking-up-for-the-students dept
Lately, the RIAA has been on a high-profile campaign to get college students that the RIAA believes have been involved in illegal file trading to settle lawsuits against them at a "discount". As part of this strategy, the company has tried to enlist universities to help them identify and turn over the names of offending students. But it's heartening to see that some universities aren't spinelessly acquiescing to the RIAA's demands. The University of Wisconsin has told the RIAA that it has no obligation to rat its students out unless it's compelled to do so by a subpoena. Meanwhile, the University of Nebraska has told the RIAA that it can't help them identify many of the students accused of file trading. The school's system changes a computer's IP address each time its turned on, and it only keeps this information for month. After that month, the school has no way of associating an IP address with a computer or its user. The RIAA is angry about this, and a spokesman for the group criticized the university for not understanding "the need to retain these records". This is a ridiculous complaint. The university doesn't have a need to retain these records, and there's no reason it should do so out of some obligation to the RIAA. If there were any doubt that the university is really irritated by the RIAA's requests, it has requested that the RIAA pay the university to reimburse its expenses from dealing with this (good luck with that). If all of this back and forth sounds familiar, it's because it very closely resembles what happened a few years ago when the RIAA tried getting ISPs to share data on their users. Fortunately, the ISPs stood up for their users and told the RIAA to get lost. It's too bad the group didn't seem to learn its lesson.
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Re:
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Hmmm....
Everyone I know who has a well-paid job that they love has a degree. Does that mean that a degree is a ticket to a good job? Of course not. But not having one almost always means a lifetime of struggling to make ends meet.
But I only have a twenty-three year career in IT that has taken me half-way around the world and opened vistas (sorry) that I never thought possible... so what the heck do I know?
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Good for the University of Nebraska, and the Nebra
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Gigacrap.
I'm begining to think that gigatribe was put out by the RIAA to catch people.
Just seems sketchy to me, is all.
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Re: Gigacrap.
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Re: Re: Gigacrap.
So when the RIAA finally take legal action against gigatribe as they have done with so many other P2P programs, and get the info that links you with your account, your screwed.
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Re: Re: Re: Gigacrap.
Those were my thoughts exactly. Any "encryption" based "anonymous" service branding more security seems pretty fishy, to say the least.
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Re: Re: Re: Gigacrap.
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Funny thing, those requests
Notice that I said that there may be a reason for an IT department to do so. This involves debugging their infrastructure and implementation of their own internal policies. Such retention has nothing to do with the RIAA, and even collecting it for a month exposes the IT departments to the requirements of having to disclose this information upon receipt of a subpoena. (Do they tell their students that this information is collected and retained? Is there informed consent, implied or otherwise? These are legal questions that come to mind.)
If the RIAA is criticizing these institutions for not retaining those records longer, then they should foot the bill for them doing so... and foot the bill not only for one or two high-profile universities where they can find a few dozen students to extort, but EVERY educational institution that offers Internet connections.
Of course, the bill should include adequate storage of this information, including encrypting the information (for privacy reasons, of course), the costs of adding this new "requirement" to their current ifrastructure, the costs of verifying the implementation (we can't have them giving out the wrong addresses, can we?), the costs for the sysadmins to put these new systems into place, the costs for trial periods and feedback to ensure the system is working properly, the cost of maintaining and replacing the storage media, the cost of multi-layers of backup media for fail-safe operation, the costs for the staff to verify validity of any subpoenas received, the costs of retrieving the information once a valid subpoena is served, and a suitable mark-up to make it in the institution's interest to actually go through with such stupidity that doesn't otherwise benefit the institution in any way, shape, or form.
Now, multiply the cost of such compliance times the number of educational institutions (public and private, of course, and don't forget the elementary, middle, and secondary schools while you are at it!), and you have a nice chunk of change that the RIAA needs to spend before they can, in good faith, say that these records need to be retained.
In other words... "RIAA, put your money where your mouth is. Your fifteen minutes is up. Please move along, now."
(And congratulations to these institutions that are finally standing up to the big bully on the block!)
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Re: Funny thing, those requests
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data retention
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Re: #5 data retention
So unless the RIAA is gooing to foot the bill for the infrastructure necessary for network neutraility (which I'm all for) they need to shut up.
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Re: data retention
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Re: data retention
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Good!!
ATTENTION MUSIC INDUSTRY!!
You are pissing off your target demographic, watch as they all start buying from independent music creators and your stock price tanks....(at least I hope...)
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Re: Good!!
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Re: Good!!
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What's the logic? Or is it just emotion?
Why is the human body, or parts of it, so repulsive to, what it seems like, many people that it requires an inappropriate label for young viewers? Is it really to avoid the "awkward" questions? Is it because seeing breasts, vagina, or penis could lead to sexual arousal? (There are people out there who are sexually aroused by feet/leg or hands. Shouldn't those body parts be censored as well?) What is the logic, the rationale, from parents or sensitive people, that ANY sight of a breast, penis, vagina, buttocks, is psychologically scarring (that is how they seem take it)? Is this all because of religious dogma? Is it hampering public medical education?
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Re: What's the logic? Or is it just emotion?
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Remember, settling out of court is not a guarantee that later you will not be sued again!
How good is it going to look with the disclaimer line in the school brochure
“ The school is not responsible for fraudulent claims it will assist in being brought agenst the attending students and faculty .” I wonder how the RIAA would like it if someone set up the add campaign “The Recording Industry is agenst education!” At least there is plenty of evidence to support the claim…
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Re:
-You Never Know
Apparently the RIAA has gotten to you.
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Re: What's the logic? Or is it just emotion?
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Re: Re: What's the logic? Or is it just emotion?
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Re: Re: Re: What's the logic? Or is it just emotio
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Good Job Guys
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http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp
They are a bunch of lying rats anyway..
Look at EMI's stock
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EMI.L&t=my
Make sure you open it up to 5 years. It had a high back in 2000 (at least over the last 5 years). Ummm, in 2000 MP3's were EASY to get, with Napster just coming out you could get all you wanted.
Last 4 years, take a guess where their stock has been? Flat.. they aren't losing any money - well, nor are they really making it either.
Of course - for some; such as myself - 2000/2001 is about the last time I bought a CD too. I admit to buying one... ONE single CD made by a member of the RIAA, it was for my daughter's birthday. Otherwise, I'll buy indie or just listen to the Radio.
With satellite radio - who needs CD's? Maybe the RIAA should sue XM/Sirrus too.
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Re:
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RIAA s other sources
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Re:
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Re: Who needs CDs?
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Re: Re: Who needs CDs?
Whenever possible, I purchase my CDs at a show by the artist or group in question.
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Re:
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Re: CDs
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Re: too late
i produce my own, have since 1996. The industry is a joke.
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Re:
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log retention
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it isn't just RIAA
Why ??? i pay a flat fee for both..unlimited useage..24/7 stuff..and it has been years since I have recieved a bill itemizing calls and/or system useage. i believe the most these companies are required to provide are copies of the bills sent to their customers.
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One interesting note, however, is that we have received complaints from the RIAA for file sharing violations that point to IP addresses that live in subnets on our network that have never existed! Whole subnets that never existed, yet the RIAA seems to think there was sharing going on from there. They give dates and times of "violations" that could never have possibly happened. Ever.
To me, this calls into question the validity of ALL of their data. Every piece of it. If they got it that wrong once, when do they get it right?
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Finally
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RIAA Wants Everyone To Know They Are Thugs
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non-existant subnets
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Re: non-existant subnets
You can try though.. :)
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Put the Students in Jail
And I think this is a much harder demographic for the RIAA to go after. Because essentially they're trying to say that the majority of students in our institutions of higher learning are criminals~ whoops. That might not bode well for the country.
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Re: Put the Students in Jail
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riaa methodology
(paraphrased)
Witch: "Kill your lover."
Atkinson: "Rather not, somewhat attached."
Witch: "Kill yourself!"
Atkinson: "Again, no, attached."
Witch: "Then kill everyone else in the whole world!"
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North Dakota State University
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Re: North Dakota State University
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Re: Re: North Dakota State University
we are one of the nations fastest expanding universities though but i suppose that make us a crappy school
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go huskers
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RIAA
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Re: RIAA
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However, Lawyers does not equal RIAA.
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RIAA suit for humming
The RIAA stated humming qualifies as data retention, whether data is stored in physical memory or brain cells. "We are applying new brain scan technologies to determine how much of a song an individual remembers, and billing their credit card for it."
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Always new laws ...
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Could someone help me on this...
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Re: Could someone help me on this...
Now, does it matter? No, because they will have the address of the router your are connected to. Most home routers don't keep log information for than 24 hours unless you configure them to do something else.
So, what you are really doing is making it look like someone else is downloading the stuff?
That's nice of you. What a good, honorable person you are to compromise a stranger like that.
Good job!
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Yeah
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They fine asinine fees when they win cases, but I wonder how much of a percentage goes to the label and the artist and how much goes into RIAA's pockets
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Re: Could someone help me on this
The only thing that will remain the same, and can be linked to you between all the networks is your network cards mac address, which can also be changed with a little bit of know-how.
All people will see when your computer connects to a website, a p2p service, etc, is the ip address of the router you are connected to.
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Business
Indeed, they are using some rapacious techniques, but that's their job. They're lawyers. They are problem solvers. Their problem is that people are getting free music. This is a legal issue.
There is no moral issue about what they are doing, only that you seem to see them as some evil corporation with carte blanche to go after violators.
Just because it is not popular to tell your little buddies to stop downloading free stuff doesn't mean these people are evil.
Are there other moral issues surrounding this issue? Absolutely! I bought a CD ten years and have lost it. Do I still own the license to have in my posession those songs? There is nothing in the CD case about this.
Finally, Copyright Law are a collection of laws that protect YOU. For all of you who love music so much one of you is going to be a songwriter one day.
Do you want some dumbass taking your song for nothing? Please don't give the "I'm an artist and I don't care" routine. That's BS and you know it.
The only way to make the RIAA go away is to stop breaking the law...
In the meantime, stop whining like spoiled little children.
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Re: Business
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Re: Business
But perhaps (and this is just a theory) we have reached the economic turning point, where music artists will be paid in accordance to what they contribute to society. Which is much, much less than what they are making today, especially for some of the no-talent assclowns like Britney.
I'm not knocking musicians, I happen to be one, but compared with many other professions, it is one that the general society doesn't need to pay billions for. Perhaps with the advent of file sharing, we have started to pay them what they are worth.
Now if only the same would happen with professional sports players, lawyers and teachers.
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Re: Re: Business
The RIAA is NOT protecting the artist. They are working ONLY for the companies that produce recordings.
Artists get screwed by RIAA big time.
They get only a few cents(!) per sold CD.
Real Artists could make much much more money if they would eliminate the obsolete RIAA middlemen in our digital age!
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Re: Business
If you're saying I don't want someone claiming that music I wrote was written by them, then you're right. However, I am willing to let people share my music and I've made that fact explicit through Creative Commons licensing, which is linked directly to my downloads. The fact that I post all of my music online this way proves that you're the one spouting BS.
It's a three-pronged approach: there's a legal license for your lawyer, a machine-readable license identifying the file as "shareable" to your browser, and a version written in VERY SIMPLE ENGLISH for YOU!
Here it is, pal: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/us/
You must be an RIAA shill.
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Re: Business
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Re: Business
Intellectual property as we know it arose with the industrial revolution and now, at the dawn of the information age - amidst the birthpangs and progressive adaption of our episteme to this new paradigm - simply put...
According to the same ground rules of capitalism that once fostered the rise of big media... those corporate entities are no longer viable. I'm not particularly pro-private-enterprise. But Free Market economics is founded on filling niches with a product or service, on adaptation and on competition. Darwinism applied in the market.
The infrastructure for the distribution and spread of media has simply reached a point where intellectual property as we knew it is no longer viable. Artists and creative entities will still have sufficient incentive to produce and drive progress forward... the distribution networks however, are no longer as such where they can viably be mediated controlled and enunciated by one entity.
The coming age will be one of organizations like the Electronic Frontier Foundation. The GNU General Public Lisence, Open Source, and Copy-Left.
I have not bought more than two CDs in over 10 years. I do maintain a library of over 150GB of downloaded music and 300GB of Film & TV also downloaded. I don't particularly believe in the sanctity of copyright, still go to concerts on a regular basis and support the artists i love through channels where the money goes more directly to those artists.. and have no quoms whatsoever, no simpathy, and no-holds barred in my demeanor towards big media.
Fuck 'em, it's the beginning of the end for them. They're a cut throat entity protecting their interests, and their frivolous and inept excuse for adaptation to new and emergent technological paradigms will be there demise. They wouldn't particularly care about my interests... and theirs no longer coinside with my own. They will fade now.
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Actually....
This gives plausible deniability.
"I run an open network. I have no idea who downloaded all that copyrighted music. Too bad, so sad, take your lawsuit and shove it up your ass."
Also, the guy could be using networks such as coffee shop hotspots, internet cafes, bookstores, libraries, etc.
Anyway, here's what I wanted to add to the overall discussion:
Tor.
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Wonder what they'd do if they sued me?
I remember when a collection agency called me about my student loan, which I had defaulted on (and which I have since paid off, voluntarily). They first tried to threaten me, and I let the guy blather on for a while before I told him the deal: no income, no property or assets, nothing to garnish, nothing to seize. A man who has nothing also has nothing to lose, nothing anyone can take. Once he realized I held all the cards and the only way he was going to get money from me was if I decided to participate in the process voluntarily, he became a lot friendlier. We worked out a nice payment schedule and I paid it off, not because he threatened me (because the threats were meaningless to me), but because I wanted to pay off that debt, for the good of future generations of students.
It's interesting, the freedom that owning nothing gives a person. There's really nothing quite like it. It's like a shield I have that can't be taken away from me. I'm basically invulnerable to civil suits because, win or lose, I still have nothing anyone can take from me, except a credit score that's irrelevant to me.
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TRAITORS
Corporations made America great and it is your duty to obey.
You should know how meaningless you are as an individual. Obey your betters worthless scum. Much better minds than yours are leading us and our beloved institutions.
Failing to follow the rules makes you no better than a terrorist.
You should all be rounded up and charged with treason.
I know that none of you are conservative Republicans. Your left-wing liberal Democratic UnAmerican leanings are obvious.
The RIAA with the backing of Congress will ensure you thieves are rounded up and dealt with.
America and its leaders and our corporations... love it or leave it you terroristic Communist-like filth.
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Re: TRAITORS
-nf
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Re: TRAITORS
*gasps for air* WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
*dries eyes*AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
*keels over holding stomach*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
I'm sure the majority of the world would agree.
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Re: TRAITORS
I live in an extreme left state, and voted almost a straight republican ticket last election. I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.
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Re: TRAITORS
Bitte vergessen Sie nicht das es wir deutschen, die japanischen, und französischen Firmen sind die Ihre RIAA zu dem machen was sie ist!
Bitte beachten Sie weiterhin, das die einzige amerikanische Firma ebenfalls von einem Kanadier geleitet wird.
So much for the point "unamerican" "communist-like filth" and "Corporations made America great and it is your duty to obey."
Japan and Germany did win over america with their secret weapon named RIAA in the end!
Me loves RIAAmusic buying americans!
Danke schoen liebe Amerikaner das ihr auch weiterhin deutsch japanische Tontraeger kauft!
;-)
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Re: TRAITORS
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Bidness
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Unfair Practices
The entertainment industry is set up so that many earning their income continue to receive renumeration long after initially being paid for their work.
Let's extend that type of earning to all workers.
The folks that built the car you are driving... they were paid for an hour's work and never recieved ANY more pay for their efforts.
Well, let's change that.
When the car is sold as used the buyer has to write a check to the AWFI (Auto Workers Fairness Institute). Since the new owner is receiving benefit from those workers efforts the fee will be distributed among the workers who built the car.
Every time the car is sold and a new owner obtains benefit, money is paid to those workers.
Buy food at the store? Well, the low-paid near-slave migrant workers in the fields who were paid but ONCE for their efforts will receive more money as you obtain benefit from their efforts.
Hey!!!!!! If the residuals form of payment is good for one "special" class of person it is good for all.
Doing so would assist in leveling out the incredibly HUGE differences in income within the USA wherein a few percentage of the people own around 85-percent of the national wealth.
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What is this?
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Go Huskers!
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Surprising
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Artists don't make money from records anyway.
Release a record.
Get radio play => small income
Sell record => small income
Distribute free music (in some cases) => no income
What all of this amounts to is advertisment for the band. People like the band, so people pay between $0-500 per ticket, but almost always the venue foots the bill. => Largest portion of income.
From record sales, the recording studio, distributors, stores and various middle men all see more profit than the artist.
An artist who wants to make money will get their music out there any way they can as advertisment for their live shows.
If you want to show your support for a store, middlemen, record labels, distributors, and to a very small extent the artist, buy the cd.
If you want to show support for the artist go to their show.
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Re: Artists don't make money from records anyway.
Indeed... Unlike the RIAA, no artist is in this business for the money alone: they all need personal, emotional support from real audience.
The recording industry makes us all forget what music is all about: not data bits, copyright nor lawyers. Music is what musicians do for those who care to listen. Go ahead, show that you care!
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Privacy
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Make my own music
Stop sending Signals in my living room Satellite companies - > and I will stop interpreting the signal and watch free TV
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RIAA
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RIAA
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~shakes head~ truly, aint there any better shit they could be wasting their time on. like lowering cd and dvd prices and unifying blu-ray and HD and staying the F out of our hair.
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RIAA
from 2020 hindsight;
Someone's suing, lord, kumbaya.... It's old news, but telling: 8-23-96: Wall Street Journal: ASCAP extorts money (well, okay, it's technically legal) from Girl Scouts so they can sing around the campfire.
"They buy paper, twine and glue for their crafts -- they can pay for the music, too," says John Lo Frumento, Ascap's chief operating officer. If offenders keep singing without paying, he says, "we will sue them if necessary." No more "Edelweiss" free of charge. No more "This Land Is Your Land." An Ascap spokesman says "Kumbaya" isn't on its list, but "God Bless America" is.
8/26/96: ASCAP backpeddles.
ASCAP has never sought, nor was it ever its intention, to license Girl Scouts singing around a campfire. ASCAP has never brought nor threatened to bring suit against the Girl Scouts. Any reports to the contrary are absolutely false. Yes, but wasn't that quote above from ASCAP's COO?
8/28/96 Wall Street Story about ASCAP's reversal:
In a contrite statement Monday, the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers said it has "never sought, nor was it ever its intention, to license Girl Scouts singing around the campfire." The society also said it will reimburse 16 girl scout councils that did pay fees this summer ranging from $77 to $257 for the right to sing songs.
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RIAA helping musicians
Like a previously mentioned post. A VERY small amount of money from record sales goes to the actual musicians and unless they are one of their absolutely top selling acts..
Musicians even pay a lot of the bills for their music videos / promotions etc... themselves. Most of their money comes from their shows and appearances. Why do you think there has been a small growing movement by artist to go independent? Yeah their sales maybe a LOT less because of distribution power but they are actually making MORE money.
Where does all the money the RIAA uses go? How many songs on the radio lately have you heard that you have told yourself sounds like absolutely crap.
Instead of improving their company and business model they just decide to sue their customers.
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As far as I know...
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Open Source Artistic (&Music) License
If such a thing exists point me to it...
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Re: Open Source Artistic (&Music) License
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RIAA Nazi's
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I'm not from Nebraska, but ...
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RIAA free and loving it
And don't forget to support your local artists!! The art is what it is about!
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at least a few stand up for our rights
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Oh I love being in .at
Good luck RIA ( put Nation in here) messing with people here.
This is just one of the reasons why strict Data-Privacy Rules are a godsend!
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Not keeping records is bad!
This is the NRA approach to record-keeping: No records, no hassle. Unfortunately, just like records of who has purchased guns, records of who did what on a computer holds legitimate interest for law enforcement. I do not want to defend the RIAA, which is engaged in over-the-top tactics in support of an obsolescent business model. But students do occasionally do really criminal things on computers (writing malware being one high-profile example), and if the university shreds its records to frustrate the RIAA, it will also protect anti-social activities that have a serious impact on others.
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greed
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Records Keeping.
Yes, there are students who break the 'law', and when it is PROVEN IN COURT that they have done so, some punishment should follow.
But because each ISP must spend money to collect and store this information, like any other "product" they should be paid for it. They are entitled to a "handling fee" as well. And they are certainly free to determine that fee. [I think $1.50 per record is fair ... see below.]
So, let the RIAA pay for the records they need to prosecute. But they must pay for ALL the records, for ALL the users - not just those they want to attack.
It would be like buying a CD ... you can't get just one good song (i.e. a case you may win), you have to buy the whole thing, and pay for all the crap data (i.e. all the innocent people) you don't really want.
So since the average price for a CD is somewhere above the $15 mark, and they contain maybe 10 songs (about $1.50 per song), a price of $1.50 PER ISP RECORD would be fair (plus shipping and handling of course).
At a small college that would be about (500 students) x (100 web hits per day) x (30 days per month) x ($1.50 per record) = $2,250,000.00 per month from the RIAA -- for a small college's records.
Did the cost of my next tuition just go down !!!
Of course my math is just a guess to make the example.
If ISP's (colleges or otherwise) would demand payment before providing data, the RIAA would have to back off.
But let's face it ... the best way is to get non-RIAA affiliated music anyway ...
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lawsuits
they are so smart that they appear stupid at times...
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Silly RIAA
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RIAA and ASCAP
It is refreshing to hear of a university that does not kowtow to the RIAA or ASCAP.
I guess the public library is the next target as it lets people read copyrighted material without paying for it!
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Stop the little thieves NOW and make it better for
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Wrong in so many ways...
Downloading is NOT theft.
Downloading is NOT shoplifting.
Not every download is a lost sale.
And there is plenty of free music out there that is completely legal.
And before you you dismiss me as a "free music fanboi", I am an IT Professional in my mid-forties. I don't do P2P, I don't share music, and I rarely, if ever, download.
The problem is not that the RIAA are inherently wrong, but they are trying to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut and alienating their next generation of customers. This does not make business sense, and it is a move that will cost them big-time as the world ignores them into oblivion.
Oh, and the RIAA told me to tell you that your check for one shilling is in the mail.
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RIAA lawsuits should be fought
Let's look at it this way: I download music illegally. However, I do not share my music. According to the RIAA, this is stealing. Fine.
Let's say I stop downloading music, but instead do what id used to do in middle school, and create mix tapes off of the radio, and onto casettes. From there, I burn them onto CD's, and then upload them to my computer, for my own enjoyment, not for sharing or selling. Am I still a pirate?
Second point: Let's say the RIAA sues me over downloading an album from one artist, let's say Usher (which I haven't done, I actually bought his). Is Usher suing me, or the RIAA? If it is truly intellectual property theft, whose intellectual property am I stealing? If it belongs to Usher and his writers/producers, does the RIAA directly represent them? If not, who are they to sue in their stead?
Third point: Let's say I buy either a CD or a CD from itunes. If I paid for it, isn't it mine, the same way my house and car are mine? If so, doesn't my ownership of said property allow me to loan it to my friends/family, the same way I can loan my car or house to a buddy? I would love to know where the line is drawn.
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hi hi hi
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hi all
Thanks
I have found two interesting sources http://www.rapidsharedata.com and
http://www.rapidmore.com and would like to give the benefit of my experience to you.
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