Mossberg Tells PC Makers To Cut The Craplets
from the the-ad-supported-PC-is-back dept
Anyone who has bought a new PC in recent years knows all about the rigmarole associated with getting them going once they've been taken out of the box. In addition to all of the preferences, the user is faced with an onslaught of what are basically software ads in the form of trial services. Wall Street Journal tech columnist Walt Mossberg, who has certainly seen more than his fair share of computers over the years, was nevertheless struck by how ridiculous things have gotten, after experiencing the joys of setting up a new Sony Vaio laptop. In addition to two dozen pieces of teaser software for services from Napster and AOL, the computer came pre-loaded with four feature-length movies from Sony Pictures. Of course the movies, which were taking up valuable space on the hard drive, couldn't be viewed without first paying Sony. The problem, as Mossberg correctly identifies, is that computer manufacturers act as if the computer doesn't belong to the user, but is instead some platform for them to pitch services. It could be argued that all of these pitches help subsidize the cost of the computer, or at least help defray the growing Windows tax (the fact that as hardware prices continue to drop, the portion of a computer's price that goes to paying for Windows goes up). But it's not surprising, then, that consumers are increasingly interested in alternatives, like desktop Linux, as a way of avoiding the whole mess.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Who owns yours PC
First it would have advertisement billboards on all the walls when you walked in.
Then would come with rooms that were locked and you could not use until you pay the builder’s partners extra.
The furniture that came with the house would be taken away after the trail 14 days was up.
Finally you would have to accept a contract that stipulates everything in house is actually not users, rather its licensed to you and remains the property of the builder.
So you would simply wipe it out and rebuild to get it working the way you like it.
And yet we accept this as normal for PC sales?
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Buying a Sony Vaio
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Re:
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Hey Its not just Sony Folks All Brands are like th
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Re: Hey Its not just Sony Folks All Brands are lik
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No way around it
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Re: No way around it
Screw "them". If they won't provide me a good product at a good price, I'll go elsewhere. It may cost me $100 more, but it's well worth it for the savings in time, and knowing that the computer is mine, I don't have anything in there that I didn't knowingly install.
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I get annoyed as well... consider the alternative
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Re: I get annoyed as well... consider the alternat
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Don't stand for it
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Michael McMannus
I don't listen to a word he says. Trying to get good PC advice from Mossberg is about the same as asking a two year old about the trials of life.
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Sony VAIO
Hardware is plentiful and cheap. Manufacturers are selling at marginal costs and trying to figure out some way to make a profit.
The internet has turned the computer into a platform for the delivery of services. Most of those services (e.g. Google, YouTube, etc.) come to you free, with the service provider making its profit from advertisements.
It should be an obvious development that a computer would come pre-loaded with advertisements for goods and services as a way for the producer of the computer to make some profit. But even these advertisements will not ultimately make the computer profitable as they will tend to become price subsidies instead of profit. Such is the way of competition in commodity markets.
The ads are annoying. You are forced to remove the crap. But, given the choice, most people will buy the crapped-up lower price computer. You'll have to live with it unless you pass a law against it or build your own computer. Either way, you'll wind up paying more for the computer, unless your cost formula prices the value of the time you spend building the computer very low (which could be the case if you enjoy that sort of thing).
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Re: Sony VAIO
No you aren't. In fact, it is not always even possible. When it is possible, it can be expensive. Next you buy a computer, try to get the seller to give you a fair market price for also removing all the crapware before delivery. They probably won't because the labor cost would be so embarrassingly high that you wouldn't buy the computer if they did.
Good idea.
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Re: Re: Sony VAIO
The article was about advertisements, not root kits. Root kits should be fully disclosed before one buys a computer system, or the manufacturer should be sued for not appropriately advertising their non-standard modifications to system software.
Man, the average worker just has no idea how rough the CEO's of these companies have it.
They probably don't. If the CEO doesn't find a way to turn the marginal-cost product into a profit maker, it will be dropped and people will lose their jobs.
However, if the division is large enough, the CEO may wind up keeping it going so the company doesn't have to suffer the monetary losses associated with shutting down operations, paying severance, and meeting other obligations under labor laws. The hope, there, for the CEO is that he can find someway to make a profit with the division in the future (or find some other way to exit with lower overall loss). While he is not making a profit, he is wasting capital that might otherwise go to a more profitable project. Either way, the CEO's job is on the line. Either way, the company's stock price will suffer, along with the value of any portfolio holding the stock, including your pension fund.
I don't see how they do it on the little money they make.
You might be surprised at what happens in commodity markets if you actually look into it. Even at its height, Enron was only making a 6% profit and a good portion of that was accounting fraud.
it is not always even possible [to remove the crap].
If the crap is in firmware, then you are right. We do need laws against deceptive practices and undisclosed extraordinary "features".
Good idea
Thanks for letting me know I got one right. :-)
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Re: Re: Re: Sony VAIO
But not prosecuted, eh? Yep, leave it up to granny to try to sue megacorp. I can hear them laughing now.
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I'll never buy retail again
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I bought a laptop...
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Re: I bought a laptop...
If "And" is a continuation of the topic sentence, it shouldn't be capitalized
"Stock" shouldn't be capitalized
You also needed to use placed, not "place"
"loose" is what your mom is. "lose" is what you did to your money
"Of" should be capitalized
There should be a comma after "course"
You have "peace" of mind. Only a small piece, though.
You also actually wanted "won't", as in you "will not" get compromised (or properly contracted).
That's only 7 glaring errors in 3 sentences though. Keep trying, maybe you'll get a 1:1 ratio some day.
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Fact is, most computer buyers want something they can pull out of the box, plug it in and have it working in under an hour.
The people who typically read Techdirt don't fit into that category.
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Re:
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Junk is always left behind from the crapware
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an alternative to is extract the drivers
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Don't feel sorry for CEO's
I wouldn't feel sorry for CEO's.
In 1980 the average CEO made 45 times the pay of a average full-time worker
In 1991 CEO's made made around 140 times the pay of a average full time worker leading one analyst to comment "CEO is paid so much more than the ordinary worker that he hasn't the slightest clue as to how the rest of the country lives"
In 2005 once again CEO's increased their average pay to 352 times that of an average worker.
I guess the concepts of greed and gluttony are long gone in the new United Corporations of America.
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Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
I didn't say you should feel sorry for them. I know the original poster was trying to make a comment about salaries. That doesn't mean I have to play his game. I merely pointed out that the problems they have to navigate are beyond the understanding of the "average worker" and that the "average worker" is dependent on the CEO making those decisions.
CEO really are people too. Some of them are well known assholes (technical term, see Bob Sutton's blog feed://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/atom.xml). Some of them are nice guys too. But all of them will be fired by the company owners if they don't make money.
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Re: Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
CEOs aren't hired because of what they know but rather because of who they know. And I find your assertion that the "average worker" is too stupid to even understand what a CEO does to be elitist and offensive.
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Re: Re: Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
What else is new? I come to this blog to be regularly reminded of that. Of course, I disagree.
There are many, many examples of CEOs getting huge BONUSES even while the companies are LOSING record amounts of money.
Yes. There are many examples of good things happening to bad CEOs. They make for compelling news stories, which is why you know of them. Of course, they are not the norm. You don't hear about the thousands of CEOs who on any given day don't do anything destructive or evil.
I find your assertion that the "average worker" is too stupid to even understand what a CEO does to be elitist and offensive.
If you are going to get all pushed out of joint, then at least characterize what I said correctly. I said "the problems they (CEO's) have to navigate are beyond the understanding of the "average worker". It isn't elitist. It is fact, at least for any moderately complex corporation. I would even go so far as to state that many CEOs themselves have to navigate problems that are beyond their understanding.
That said, there is a difference in skill set between a good CEO and an average worker. Ask the average worker at a supermarket if they know anything about corporate valuation, bond issues, microeconomics, supply chain management, corporate strategy, mergers and acquisitions, or any other domain in which the CEO operates during his daily job. You'll find that the average worker hasn't a clue about half the things the CEO must consider.
Whether the average worker is capable of knowing these things is a different question. The fact is the overwhelming majority don't, irrespective of the reason they don't.
Please note, I didn't say either average workers or CEOs was stupid. I'm not responsible for the emotional baggage you bring to the conversation, but I'm sorry if your misinterpretation of what I was saying caused you any distress.
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Most of them never make the news. Check out the SEC reports. They list far more than the news.
Of course, they are not the norm.
Seems to me like the term "all" would include them as well. Do I hear the back-pedal-boogie starting up?
You don't hear about the thousands of CEOs who on any given day don't do anything destructive or evil.
I guess anyone can have an off day.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
I did write that. I didn't say stupid. One can be smart and still have something be beyond their understanding. I know many smart people to whom something as simple as capital markets is beyond their understanding. They do not have either the requisite quantitative skills or desire to understand them. I don't care which it is, the subject is beyond their understanding. I don't consider them stupid.
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I never said "not as smart".
Different people have different skills sets and interests. The CEO of a media company is likely to be better at the skills required to be a CEO than a musician working for the company. The musician is likely to be better at playing their instrument and musical composition than the CEO. That does not make one smarter than the other. They can both be brilliant and the abilities of the other can be beyond each of them.
You want to interpret my words through whatever class warfare or emotional baggage you cling to. The conflict is in your soul, not mine.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
"That said, there is a difference in skill set between a good CEO and an average worker. "
I think it is more than just a skill set difference. The people who become CEO's are typically from well to do families and have been involved with building social networks and investments most of their life.
Rather than just a skill set most CEO's have had a lifetime of networking. This is not something someone from a the lower class could accomplish realistically.
Of course there are exemptions often referred to as straddlers who cross class barriers within their lifetime to become great leaders and sometimes CEO's. This is the exception to the rule though and does not happen very often.
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Absolutely. Most did not exactly start in the mail room and work their way up, so to speak.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
There are personality differences also. Ignoring legacy cases, it takes a certain amount of tenacity and/or aggressive behavior to work one's way into the corner office.
The people who become CEO's are typically from well to do families and have been involved with building social networks and investments most of their life.
The "well to do families" stereotype is overblown. This isn't necessarily the case in technology, especially these days. Education is the stronger correlation. Thanks to social programs there is more liberal access to university education, so wealth does not correlate as strongly with education.
This is not something someone from a the lower class could accomplish realistically
This isn't completely true. Networking is a skill that is based partially on personality and partially learned. MBA programs at good schools emphasize the importance of network building. They offer seminars in networking. And they sponsor many social events to help their students and alumni build networks. Anyone who gets a business education will wind up having their network start at school and have the skills to continue building it.
I'm not as pessimistic about a person's ability to rise as you seem to be.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't feel sorry for CEO's
"The "well to do families" stereotype is overblown. This isn't necessarily the case in technology, especially these days."
There is nothing overblown about the "well to do families". If you believe there is then I dare you to list all the CEO and other Industry leaders that come from lower class America and then compare that list to upper class America.
"Education is the stronger correlation. Thanks to social "
Wrong again. Education is directly related to class not the other way around. There is a mountain of evidence that proves this! Please don't try to make it out like there is a level playing field when the evidence clearly indicates otherwise.
"Networking is a skill that is based partially on personality and partially learned. "
I would disagree here. Networking is all about exposure and poor class has no exposure. Like I said, most CEO have a lifetime of networking, not a couple of years in community or a university setting.
"This isn't completely true."
Nothing is completely true, but the rule of thumb is what I have already stated.
"I'm not as pessimistic about a person's ability to rise as you seem to be"
Pessimism and reality are two different things. I believe foolhardily like most other Americans that anyone can obtain higher standing in America, but the reality is often far from this.
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It is in technology. Entrepreneurship often comes from lower and middle class offspring.
Education is directly related to class not the other way around.
This is true. But, I think you'll find, there are more people from middle class backgrounds than upper class running tech companies.
Pessimism and reality are two different things.
Pessimism can create reality.
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Yeah I would imagine newer fields like computer technology would be more open to upward mobility. It will be interesting to see if it continues to remain this way.
"Pessimism can create reality"
Yes, we all know of the self-fulling prophecy. Cynicism and pessimism can easily lead you down a road of inactivity, disengagement, and disenfranchisement. This of course will help to fulfill any negative thoughts you have.
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Dell is finally beginning to get a clue. They will be offering alternatives to Windows Vista and more options for their customers to choose from. If it costs a few dollars more so be it.
As for me I'll continue to build my own offering clean fast systems. Without any crapware installed.
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On CEOs ...
I am a libertarian capitalist, and I firmly believe this is not the working of a free market at all but the terminal stages of "financialism" that has taken over. It would take longer than this comment thread to explain this view in detail, but as a CEO, I will not morally or ethically associate myself with a lot of those bastards out there.
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Re: On CEOs ...
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Too bad I can't DIY a laptop. I can *make* one with whatever's currently avaliable, but it WILL be missing one critical component: a LiON battery, chargable power supply.
If that were avaliable I'd see DIY laptops (and even UMPCs) hit the market. And I wish that would happen - DCHP and Co. (that's Dell, Compaq and HP - even if Compaq and HP have merged, I still like the acronym) need a wakeup call.
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If you're not too comfortable doing this yourself, I'm sure you know some tech guy capable of doing this.
Just get over the whining already. If you're stupid enough to use some "cleaning tool" and then see your firewall pop up that something is trying to phone home, well then you deserve what you bought.
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De-branding all PC
some time back I found a web site that has a scrip to de band DELL ( forgot the ULR sorry )
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Blow away all partitions & start from scratch.
This assumes of course you can get all the necessary drivers. Research before you buy and don't buy from companies who don't have the drivers up on their site.
My clients are impressed with the performance improvement.
Toolbars and other associated junk should not be foced on you from square one - too much overhead, too many vulnerabilities, too much performance hit.
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this will get rid of crap on a new computer
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None of this on Macs
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I think everybody needs to either start learning how to build their own computers or buy a custom-built computer from somebody who does. OEMs may have customer service that can listen to your requirements and offer suggestions for a purchase, but they are bound by their product line, which may not fit your requirements, or your budget. When building custom, the sky's the limit. Just a couple weeks ago I built a brand new gaming system for a friend of mine, using all high-quality brand name parts. It was complete with a 19" digital LCD panel, Microsoft Comfort Curve keyboard and laser mouse, and a Creative Labs 7.1 surround sound speaker system, which btw was plugged into a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer sound card, not crappy on-board audio, and I loaded Windows XP Media Center edition on it, which was the XP "Ultimate Edition" since it has all the features of XP Professional (which is actually more expensive) as well as the multimedia stuff. And with a GeForce 8800 card driving the video, it took any game we could throw at it and kept asking for more.
The parts for the system were purchased exclusively from Newegg.com and came to total of just a bit under $1950, and that includes all the shipping costs. Any OEM system that could rival the power of this machine would cost closer to $3000, possibly more with shipping and tax. The only problem with building your own is that if any problems come up, you have to service the machine yourself (unless you bought a custom rig from a mom-n-pop shop), and you are stuck with the individual manufacturer's warranty for each of the parts. However, I don't buy the cheap crap that usually breaks down, rather I just buy the good stuff at reasonable prices. Of all the systems I've built, hardly any have had any sort of hardware failure that was due to a component failing on its own (as opposed to, say, a power surge blowing out a PSU and motherboard). Also, if you use good parts, your system, which already cost you less, will easily outperform any OEM piece of junk that comes preloaded with a bunch of crap. If you don't believe me, go buy a $1000 Dell Dimension PC, then get somebody to build you the fastest custom rig $1000 can buy (while trying to maintain equivalent specs to the Dell), then set them up side by side, turn them on, and watch what happens. If the custom rig was built well, it should make the shiny new Dell appear bloated and sluggish.
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Yes, but what about laptops?
This has worked fine in the past..... but what if I needed a laptop?
As far as I know laptops very little to practically no internal hardware standards as desktops do. Even different models of the same type and brand of laptops can have compeltely different sizes/shapes/and ports for their battery, optical drive, etc. So basically, your only choice is to buy a prebuilt, a prebuiolt loaded with as much crapware as a desktop, if not more.
And of course, there is no legal way to just format it and reinstall Windows, or any other applications you want that it came with, such as Office.
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Just buy a Mac
You get what you pay for.
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My Mac didn't come with a bunch of ads
Funny how these problems can be solved with money, especially your own money.
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Windows
I bought the machine but I have no control over what's in it. Since Microsoft is a public utility it should be regulated as a utility. Why should we take this on-line torture any more? The basic computer should be
as simple to use as the telephone. Thank you. dke
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Not too bad
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