Author Calls Other Authors Who Give Away Content Scabs
from the say-what? dept
It appears that some folks are really, really confused. While there are plenty of people in the content creation industry who insist that even if they don't want to give away their own content, they have no problem if others do -- it appears that not everyone subscribes to that belief. Petréa Mitchell writes in to let us know about a statement from the VP of the Science Fiction Writers of America calling those who give away content online "webscabs" who he claims hurt other authors by undercutting the price of their work:"I'm also opposed to the increasing presence in our organization of webscabs, who post their creations on the net for free. A scab is someone who works for less than union wages or on non-union terms; more broadly, a scab is someone who feathers his own nest and advances his own career by undercutting the efforts of his fellow workers to gain better pay and working conditions for all. Webscabs claim they're just posting their books for free in an attempt to market and publicize them, but to my mind they're undercutting those of us who aren't giving it away for free and are trying to get publishers to pay a better wage for our hard work."Who knew that letting the market work its magic was such a dangerous thing? The truth is that it's not. As many have pointed out in response to his comments, the economy is not a zero sum game. One person doing well doesn't necessarily mean someone else does worse. In fact, the use of non-scarce goods given out for free tend to increase the pie by increasing the value of the scarce goods. It's even more amusing that this guy, a science fiction writer, doesn't seem to realize this, when there's clear evidence from publishers like Baen Books that giving away content for free increases sales.
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Re:
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a Grammar Nazi
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Think about it
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Re: Think about it
Now we have the teamsters that have more control in a business than upper management. If you miss 2 days of work, calling in sick or not, you get fired if the teamsters are the union for where you work. Even in oklahoma where it's against the law to be forced to join a union, you won't be hired if you don't join it and if the union kicks you out, you get fired as well.
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Re: Think about it
Firstly, I don't think that word means what you think it means. In any case, it certainly doesn't apply to unions in general.
I was a member of the International Association of Fire Fighters, which is associated with the AFL-CIO, for 24 years. Yes, we often asked for better wages, benefits, and working conditions. Just as often, we asked that our firefighting and medical training be kept up to date and that we had the most technologically advanced tools available to do our job, which certainly benefited the public we worked for. How you think this might be illegal, deceitful, fraudulent or a secret agreement is beyond me.
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Re: Think about it
AP
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what a tool
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I'll bet I spend more on science fiction works than this VP who I suspect hasn't had to pay for a sci-fi book in years.
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Hey I got an idea
Mitchell is allowed his thoughts but reality is what it is and someone is always innovating in a free market society.
Damn WalMart
Damn Libraries...
Damn Internet....
DAMN DAMN DAMN
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Idiots
The same applies to any literature I may write. If I write a story for the joy of writing, I have no problem giving it away for free or for a slight compensation. I will not seek to make millions off a story (or rather make a publishing company millions) nor would I feel at all bad if my free stories displaced someones published work in the market. If my free work is better then then your work which is being sold, perhaps the problem lies in your works quality.
The right to do as I wish with my work is bestowed on me when I created it outside a binding contract with a publisher. These greedy, lazy, hypocrites need to go crawl in a hole and die.
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I Should Have Read the Link...
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Aren't different writers in competition?
Having high sales volume and high popularity seems like something that would allow actually make a better bargaining position for the writer when attempting to negotiate with publishers.
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Janis Ian wrote an article years ago that contained the following excerpt:
Or take author Mercedes Lackey, who occupies entire shelves in stores and libraries. As she said herself: "For the past ten years, my three "Arrows" books, which were published by DAW about 15 years ago, have been generating a nice, steady royalty check per pay-period each. A reasonable amount, for fifteen-year-old books. However... I just got the first half of my DAW royalties...And suddenly, out of nowhere, each Arrows book has paid me three times the normal amount!...And because those books have never been out of print, and have always been promoted along with the rest of the backlist, the only significant change during that pay-period was something that happened over at Baen, one of my other publishers. That was when I had my co-author Eric Flint put the first of my Baen books on the Baen Free Library site. Because I have significantly more books with DAW than with Baen, the increases showed up at DAW first.There's an increase in all of the books on that statement, actually, and what it looks like is what I'd expect to happen if a steady line of people who'd never read my stuff encountered it on the Free Library - a certain percentage of them liked it, and started to work through my backlist, beginning with the earliest books published.
"The really interesting thing is, of course, that these aren't Baen books, they're DAW---another publisher---so it's 'name loyalty' rather than 'brand loyalty.' I'll tell you what, I'm sold. Free works."
I am sure Mrs. Lackey will be inestimable wounded that some dude most people have probably never heard of considers her a scab.
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Webscab
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Re: Webscab
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If you're not an author you don't understand!!
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Re: If you're not an author you don't understand!!
You are calling those people "bottom feeders" even thought they probably gross more then you will in your entire life? What is your definition of top and bottom?
Now, if I write ANYTHING and decide to sell it or to give it away for free, you have no say in my decision. Unless I am under contract with a publisher for the work, I could care less if it derails your work because it is selling for less. To me that shows your work was not worth the publics time to read in comparison to mine and you should do a better job of competing.
"If you're not an author you don't understand!!"
What don't non-authors understand? Writing is no different then software development, music, painting, or any other form of conceptual production. From that post, I would conclude, in fact, that it is you who do not understand the basics of the market and free competition.
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Re: If you're not an author you don't understand!!
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Re: H1B Immigrants
Instead of crying that they can't find competent Americans to fill these high-tech jobs, companies should be investing heavily in our high school students. Just like coaches go after hungry and talented high school basketball players, company reps should be out actively recruiting smart kids from the inner city. Nurture them and mentor them along, and sign them to a contract. Support the young in this country instead of harvesting the talent from overseas.
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I'm an author and what a load of ...
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What's in a name...
I just find it ironic that I think of the term "scab" as being an inherently positive thing. A scab is the body's way of controlling hemmoraging and providing shelter to the wound so that recovery can take place.
The desire to rid oneself of scabs is a desire to be free of the wound, and there is nothign wrong with that. However, trying to prematurely remove the scab only causes the injury to get worse, induces more hemmoraging, and makes the overall healing process have to start over.
So I think the name scab is perfect in describing these authors, who are in the business for somethgn other than making the established publisyhing companies richer. That seems to be EXACTLY what the publishing houses need in order to make themselves better again.
Now they just need to learn to stop picking.
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Re: What's in a name...
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Not a new argument
Basically Walmart just reduced the value of smaller retailer's goods so much through economies of scale that they drove millions out of business.
It really is no different with fiction - if someone is giving away fiction (especially in your submarket) for free, then the value of your fiction is of course reduced.
Keep in mind that there are already less then 200 novelists in the United States who can support themselves solely by writing novels.
Writing fiction is not a very profitable business, I support any artist wanting to give away their art for free but do feel the pain of the authors who cannot.
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Re: Not a new argument
That's ridiculous. When Walmart sells something cheaper, it is in fact THE SAME EXACT PRODUCT. When John Doe releases fiction for free, it isn't even close to the same product as, say, Robert Heinlein's fiction. Not all fiction is equal. Not even close. People will continue to pay reasonable rates for quality fiction from authors they know they like regardless of how many John Does publish free fiction. The only people who stand to be hurt by this are other John Does, who expect to get paid Robert Heinlein prices for a work of completely unknown quality. Which is an absurd expectation, really.
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Re: Re: Not a new argument
There is an inverse lesson to be learned here as well. The "reasonable" rate must be consistent with what the consumer percieves to be reasonable. And consumers expect prices of goods to come down over time. Anything that impedes or seeks to reverse that will alienate the consumer, and sales will dry up.
I used to be an avid Stephen King reader, and purchased every one of his books (yes, I even own a hardcover of the bachman books).
And then one day came the green mile experiment. I'm (somewhat) smart, I did the math in my head. I realized that the publishing house was trying to extract more money from me than a hardcover would cost by releasing the book only in 5 (or 8.. or x..) softback issues.
WTF? They lowered the inherent value of the book, and decided to make me pay more for it? And why? Because I had no say in the matter. If I wanted the content, then I had to appropiate it in the one manner I was authorized by the publishing house.
Totally blown away, I stopped buying books for entertainment. If I really want to read a book now, I rent it for free from the library.
I never did purchase the green mile. I see its available in different formats now. I guess the experiment was a failure then? no clue. stopped caring.
I have only purchased technical reference manuals for work since then. (And have been reimbursed for each one by my employer as well)
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Re: Not a new argument
And your point is?
No-one has the RIGHT to support themselves by doing any job that they wish.
How many blacksmiths can support themselves solely as blacksmiths?
Or what about the men who used to come around with blocks of ice to refill iceboxes before fridges were around? Do they have a 'right' to be able to support themselves in that profession in this day and age?
You support yourself via a profession that it is viable to support yourself from, not just because you 'want' to do that profession.
And that is how I view the extreme copyright law extensions as to duration of copyright. They are a legislated method to continue the viability of an industry that, without legislated support, would have met its day and no longer BE a viable industry.
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Petréa Mitchell
I belong to the sf book club, I read the scifi web site, but I can't recall this author at all.
What has he written?
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Re: Petréa Mitchell
Ever get a free sample of food at Sam's? They are given away to get you to try it. Then, if you like it, you BUY your own. That VP needs to get his head out of his buttocks and write something peolpe are willing to buy.
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Why?
Regardless, this guy is full of BS. Most likely he sees the free books being read more than his own and is a little upset about it. He is assuming that people are only reading these books because they are free. He can’t possibly imagine that maybe his writing sucks. Some of the best short stories I have ever read were free.
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Of course, there is also nothing wrong with an artist not wanting to give away their work and making sure other people don't distribute their work without their permission.
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Fear
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What I don't get is...
I hate when people automatically attack anything that hurts their business. Just cause its not good for you (which in this case, the only way its not good is if they can't write as well as the free authors) doesn't mean its evil. Business models, markets, and all that change with the times. Change can be good. Someone just needs to find the right balance of what to offer for free and what to charge for and they can probably become very wealthy.
And to the person who said there's only 200 novelists who can support themselves solely on writing... well, what do you expect? Even if you consider each genre, or subgenre for that matter, as its own market... its still FLOODED with products from different sources. The only way books survive is because of publishers. It's like having a market with hundreds of competitors. Assuming they all have something to offer, the revenue from the public is going to be split up WAY too much for that many of the writers to make a living. However, due to there being a much smaller amount of publishing houses, the revenue can still be considerable enough that they can stay in business and keep publishing books that couldn't make enough to ever publish themselves.
Publishing houses are like what the RIAA should be, except in recent times, everybody's just getting way to greedy and not actually caring about what they should be doing, but instead about how much they could be making.
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Re: What I don't get is...
LOL. Maybe someone could give me a lift to the library or send me a Gutenburgh (sp?) CD
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Publishers are the scabs
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Screw You Two
undeserved cut of the pie.
Mitchell is pissed because he wants a closed
shop. Creating an environment where the
mediocre with connections can flourish and
at the same time artifically inflate the wages.
Screw them both.
Some very good Sci-Fi and horror writers
cannot get their work published, so they do
indeed give it away on the web. At the very
least they get some recognition and maybe a
thank you. Beats the hell out of a form letter
notice of rejection.
I'm proud to be among the legions of webscabs.
Maybe someone will print that on t-shirt.
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Clarification
The quote in the original post is not from me, but an excerpt from the rant the outgoing VP of SFWA. I have no problem with free stuff being available.
I also have no problem with it if you want to make your work available with some kind of DRM. It doesn't make me any more or less likely to buy it; I prefer to read fiction off of dead trees because I spend enough of my day looking at a monitor already.
As for sf-related writing, here's my little-known fanzine. Short reviews, trip reports, obscure news, and what I modestly believe is the most complete near-term listing of upcoming sf conventions anywhere.
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that sounds like the def of unions
swap "fellow" to plain old "other"
sounds like this org is a wanna be RIAA/MPAA
i only buy used cd's and movies but don't do books at all for entertainment
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Unions suck
The same applies to this writers union. I fully agree with some of the comments thus-far that suggest volumes priced high, as per union standards, will be beneficial to the big named writers but in the same vane be detrimental to the obscure and unknown writer.
John Hancock wrote:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
The founding principles of this country, in and of themselves, dictate that an author has the right to charge what he feels (not what the union feels) is a fair price for his works or even to charge nothing at all!
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Re: Unions suck
The problem here isn't unions demanding a living wage for their workers, it is major corporations' demands for higher and higher profit margins. Half a century ago an 8% profit margin was considered good. Today, however, corporate investors demand nothing less than a 20% profit margin. It is this demand for greater and greater profit that is driving American jobs overseas. After all, why should a major corporation pay an American $20/hour when they can pay a Mexican $20/day, or an Asian $20/month.
Fortunately, I work in the transportation sector, so they can't export my job. And, in addition to that, I am a member of the Transportation Workers Union.
AP
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Scabs
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Isn't it obvious?
The person that uses the free content is more likely to spend money in that industry. Provided the product was not crap.
The only difference is if they liked the free product they will be more willing to purchase like products from the same producer.
This person obviously can't hold their own in the industry they are in.
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Isn't it obvious?
The person that uses the free content is more likely to spend money in that industry. Provided the product was not crap.
The only difference is if they liked the free product they will be more willing to purchase like products from the same producer.
This person obviously can't hold their own in the industry they are in.
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Re: Isn't it obvious?
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I See This Issue From Both Sides Now
On the other hand, a writer's organization such as the SFWA has a duty to make sure that its members get the best treatment possible and they don't want to backslide to the old days when writers were taken advantage of.
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baen FTW
And i still went out and picked up paper copies of them, its just now i know if im going to like the novel beforehand, and not just getting a fancy paperweight.
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i wonder if he noticed that.
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re: collusion
My grandfather used to be an electrician, and in order to be an electrician in the city he lived in he had to be a member of the electrician's union, and any contract work, i.e. the big jobs for businesses and such, was doled out by the union. Surprise, surprise friends and family of the union leaders got the big deals.
Anyway, my point is, most problems with unions are a result of special legal protection, not inherent in the unions themselves.
As far as this VP's comment, why do you bother giving this guy advertising? More people outside of the SciFi writing community probably know who he is from this article than from his writing. He should look at how much author's and other artists used to earn. And yet, even without artist's guilds, or the National Endowment for the Arts, or relatively easy means to propagate art, we can still look back to any period of the last 500 years and find art that today we consider classical, or great or revolutionary. If anything, the overabundance of art is going to make it harder for future generations to look back and say oh, that is brilliant. For every great musician, there are hundreds if not thousands of Sanjayas cluttering up that space.
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UNION BENEFITS -- That pension check !
and requirements, your union dues, multiplied
several times over, show up in your mail box in the
form of your UNION PENSION. Other benefits are
available, too. Chew on that for a while !
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Freelance Writers Union?
Or is this guy just kidding?
Hmmmmm.
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