Church Of England To Sue Sony For In Game Use Of Cathedral?
from the break-out-the-lawyers dept
Brian writes in to let us know that Manchester Cathedral is contemplating suing Sony over supposed video representations of their building in a video game that involves plenty of killing. He also notes that he had no idea that what Cathedral it was in the game until this news came out, suggesting a bit of a Streisand Effect as now a lot more people are going to learn that it's a real cathedral in the game. You can sort of understand why the folks at the Cathedral are upset, but it's difficult to see how they have a legal claim here. Just because you dislike something, doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal. Of course, it's also worth noting that other press reports note that the church isn't just threatening a lawsuit... it's asking Sony to "contribute a large donation" to the church, which might make some cynical folks question the motives here.
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If it were Islam
Or how about a Nightclub, if this were a particular nightclub the killings were being depicted in would a nightclub owner not have a valid claim?
If it was your house depicted in the game, you'd also have a valid claim...
If they wanted a holy place to perform killings in, let them make one up with some of the known Dogma... but because this one depicts a real place of worship they have a valid complaint in my book...
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Re: If it were Islam
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Re: If it were Islam
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Re: If it were Islam
Even perpetuating the idea that you can/should sue because your public building is depicted in something you find offensive is simply asking for problems.
What's next? Make a movie about Los Angeles being over run by zombie porn stars and the city sues? New York is depicted in a game about a terrorist attack that results in the loss of several landmarks. Should they also be able to sue? Someone writes a book of fiction about someone with your exact name with all sorts of pseudo-slander and ethnic slurs. Should you sue as well?
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Context
AS far as the donation goes; in the UK the government add money to anything labelled a donation (known as Gift Aid). Plus with a charitable organisaion surely any money given is effectively a donation..?
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God v. Sony
Now, we can set aside whether or not they have a vaild claim-- just because gun crime goes up doesn't mean this game will have any negative effect.. maybe the church should sue gun makers, too. What if gun crime was going down.. would they still have a reason to sue?
Litigation is a last resort, not the opening attack-- or at least it should be.
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Re:
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Sony deserves this
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but bottom line Sony chose a real cathedral in order to make its game more realistic and the church is trying to get a cut from that.
anyways this law suit will serve as good publicity for both, and i bet Sony will choose to give a "donation" cause that will server as additional publicity for them
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Does it matter?
And in any case...it doesn't matter, if god cared so much, he would smote the writers, CEO, and designers. As it stands...prepare yourselves for this...
THERE IS NO GOD!
If there was, either the churches would burn down or Sony would.
Come on god...pick one and exercise your judgement
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Re: Does it matter?
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Indulgences
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you might win but you are still retarted!
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What have they done wrong?
And if it were an islamic group making the lawsuit you better believe somethign would be happening, heck you cant even post a comic putting islam in a bad light without people bending over backwards not to offend them....
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Re: What have they done wrong?
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Off topic, I know.
Fanatics are not limited to the religious, it seems.
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*sigh*
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Don't hit enter unless you're done.
No, using giving the pope a Shotgun of Divine Wrath and a belt of Holy Hand Grenades and having him run around the church killing nuns and touching little boys would be character assassination. Using a church as a setting of a battle does not speak anything abound said church-- only that some men ran in and started shooting at each other.
And if it were an islamic[sic] group making the lawsuit you better believe somethign[sic] would be happening...
Something *is* happening.. they're suing. I think my previous statement would hold true for any religion, they set a scene of a WWII type environment (in an alternate reality, no less) where a battle spills into a church.. what church is not important, it just so happens it is *this* church.
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Re: Don't hit enter unless you're done.
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I'll side with the church on this one
"This is an important issue. For many young people these games offer a different sort of reality and seeing guns in Manchester Cathedral is not the sort of connection we want to make.
"Every year we invite hundreds of teenagers to come and see the cathedral and it is a shame to have Sony undermining our work."
This is what the Dean of the cathedral had to say on the issue, quote gotten from bbc.co.uk. Personally I on this I would be on the side of the church, which is pretty rare for me. Sure, most people would not recognise the church, but many kids in Manchester might, which is where the problem is located.
I havent played this game, but I dont think it would play that big a role in promoting gun violence, but it still might damage the reputation of the church by giving young people a negative association with it. I doubt the church wants peoples first thoughts when seeing the church to be 'this looks like the part of that game with the bloody gun battle.'
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Re: I'll side with the church on this one
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what are you guys talking about?
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joe said it fine.....how is this character assassination? that is a completely ludicrous point of view. just the thought that you can not set a fictional story in a real location because you might get sued, its quite scary!
i doubt they will ever actually sue as they must know there is no case here.
I am still asking the question: what is the purported wrongdoing here: slander/defamation? copyright/trademark? the bad man pointed at me and laughed and now he must pay because i dont like it?
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what are you talking about?
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If this game was set in the Trump Tower without the Trump organisations consent, would Trump Organisation have a right to persue it?
I think because this is a Church and people are so used to pissing on christianity that they are dismissing it when they do quite have a grievance...
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Also, please note that Barbara Streisand tried to prevent people from seeing a photograph of her house...
It ended with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
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Oh, please try to stop transfering your own shortcumings to me.
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slander? this is a fictional game set in a real place. its simply a setting for fiction. i would be completely blow away of this video game sets forth that it is a fact that this battle (with aliens) actually happened in the church, and further, if the people associated with the church are not portrayed as having done anything wrong (as opposed to being innocent victims), then there is no slander against them.
purgery? what the hell is that? do you mean perjury? what has that got to do with this?
defamation of character - see "slander" above
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What's Manchester Cathedral's cause of action?
What injury have they sustained. I am not talking about the people of Manchester who may, if a tenuous connection must be made, become victims of increased gun violence due to the mass publicity of this link between violence and religion (gee, never would have thought of that, myself). I am talking about the Cathedral, proper. Is what Sony doing slander? How so?
Will fewer tourists or worshipers come to the Cathedral due to its association with a violent video game? I would think the opposite would occur. More people (PS3 nuts) would want to see the real Cathedral.
Lots of film and media depict real places. The original Die Hard took place in LA. So did Heat. New York is a popular place to film. Do the residents sue Hollywood when something bad happens in their city? What about Streets of San Francisco or the Dirty Harry movies? Man, what a goldmine! Who thought suing Hollywood could be so lucrative? Oh, wait, it isn't. They have deeper pockets and can litigate you into the ground, church or no church.
What Sony did was tasteless, probably sick, and guaranteed to piss people off. Are they liable in a civil or criminal sense? I don't see how. If you really want to convince people that you are "right" try a little tolerance and reason.
Reasonable responses will be considered. All others will be burned at the stake or drowned.
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Re: Norman619
They did not model their nightclubs after actual nightclubs, nor did their high scale appartments use someones actual address... They altered the names of all the cars and even modeled them differently, they only seem the same because they are styled close enough to the real thing...
I think the above poster is right, if you can put yourself in the position of the church in this situation (i like his girlfriend analogy) you can see that what Sony (or the software house) did is wrong... and legal action should be taken...
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Re: Re: Norman619
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Filming
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Right is Right
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The Buildings I know of used by rockstar
If any particular missions happens in these buildings and permission was not given for their use by the owners then I believe that they would be in the same situations as this church and that legal compensation would be justified even if only for the profiting from the use...
we are not even going to include the Nut Jobs out there who might get the notion of disturbing this church now its in a game... it only takes 1 nut... (I also know that a game wont make people crazy, but theres no reason to hand a nut a target, you wouldn't want a game out their that had you as the target)
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Even Sony admits
By their own admissions they understand that such things are needed....
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Your law, lawyer.
they would be in the same situations as this church and that legal compensation would be justified
Justified? For *what*? The church was rendered in a video game about an alternate reality where some alien things attack the world, think: War of the Worlds. I don't know you personally, but your way of thinking is what is driving the civilization into the ground. Just because someone makes a lot of money and you (in the general sense) are connected in some tiny way, doesn't entitle you to a cut. If *anything* the architect would have more grounds to sue than the freakin' church.
Nut Jobs out there who might get the notion of disturbing this church now its[sic] in a game
Oh come on, now! You can't seriously be proposing that the church deserves money because someone might play Resistance: Fall of Man and decide to play it out in the church for real. At least, I *hope* you're not serious. That would be suing for a possible outcome, and not even a probable one. I would like to sue you for possible damages to my wrists from typing out this response. ;)
Face, Mr. Holy Crusader-- this church has no legal leg to stand on-- they are only portraying the church as a greedy, litigious organization who has lost touch with the teachings of the god/man/spirit they claim to follow. If anything, they've done more harm to their 'good name' with this publicity stunt than Sony could do with any video game, in my eyes.
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Re: Your law, lawyer.
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I've nothing to do with their church
PS. finally someone who understood where my name was comming from instead of typo'ing it... tho I'm not crusading on this one... just looking at it from the side of the members of the church thats being defaced in the game...
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But seriously, folks.
First off, it sounds to me like you're biased against other religions-- to where they always 'get it easy' and you and your religion are always shat upon. That pretty much renders the rest of what you have to say, to me, as the rantings of a zealot.
Secondly, they may win or it might be quietly settled... we don't know yet. I wouldn't put my money on it, but in this crazy world you never can tell.
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wrong!
what they actually said was "Throughout the whole process we have sought permission where necessary."
the permission you describe simply isnt necessary as any author or director could tell you
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Not cool.
I do agree, however, with Techdirt pointing out the Streisand Effect. I honestly never knew about the cathedral being in the game, so they probably could have done a better job at preventing this negative exposure. Now MORE people are going to take note of their cathedral being used as a place where people's heads are blown off. Way to go, Church of England...
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Re: Not cool.
So, you'd rather have something that could be mistaken as real (WWII battle in your church) over something that could *not* be mistaken as real? (Men fighting aliens in your church) It seems to me that the more believable the story-line, the more potential harm it could do.
Sony's game essentially desecrates a still-standing structure.
No. No, no, no, no. No! To desecrate the structure, I'd have to actually go to the church and wage a war with aliens inside of it. If I drew a cartoon of said church and then drew some guys killing aliens in my drawn church, I would not be desecrating the *real* church. I know that reality and fantasy can get blurred these days, but get a grip.
I, for instance, am LDS.
Think your people could stop putting fliers on my car? Thanks.
I would definitely be extremely upset to discover any portrayal of one of our holy temples being used as a battleground.
That's perfectly understandable.. some people are way too serious, and that's fine. Being upset happens to everyone, but that doesn't mean you get to make a big deal out of nothing. If they wanted to bring the law into it, they should have a *legal* complaint-- and 'being upset' isn't a legal complaint to my knowledge. (IANAL)
Sony should have used more discretion in this area.
No, people-- and I include all religions, races and nationalities-- need to stop being so damn sensitive. I won't go through my life worrying about who I might offend when I speak-- I'm sure just about every word out of my mouth has the potential to offend *someone*. I think the world needs to sit down and watch Blazing Saddles until they realize that a joke is just a joke, a game is just a game and a movie is just a movie. It's a *game* and this one little detail is getting this church's panties in a wad. Maybe, just *maybe* if the entire game revolved around the church I could understand, but it's one part!
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Why did they use a church?
why didn't they use a parking garage or a church that does not even exist... make up a pretend church complete with all the regular churchy stuff... it wouldn't make a difference to the players of the game or the games success or failure...
It is because they are using a particular church that this is even a problem...
I do however aggree that people do not need to get so offended at things, but peoplle should also not go out of their way to be offencive...
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Re: Why did they use a church?
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The Who of What?
In all seriousness, the Church of England has gotta get a goddamned life and stop with lame PR stunts like this.
Until this point, I always thought the CoE was, more or less, harmless. Sad to see they are taking a chapter from the Earth-Is-Young&Flat Christian's in America... be loud, be crazy!
In Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, there's a church that is, uh, quite distinct. It's a well known church - it's a carbon copy of the real church. The Cathedral of Saint Mary of the Assumption. How come they didn't freak out?
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Is this an urban myth?
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Are some of you fucking nuts?
I'd be surprised if Sony had the nuts to stand their ground though, they edited out those uniforms from The Getaway 2 after a small fuss was raised over it.
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Oh...
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Anyone who thinks that a battle has occured in the City of Manchester since (at the very latest) the seventeenth century, is an idiot, and there were no land battles in Great Britain (the biggest fo teh British Isles) in either world war, and only the Channel Islands were occupied by the Germans in either war, which are sovreign countires.
I suppose the chuch could be angry that the game makkers are allowing thos playing as aliens to kill humnans in the church.
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church of England
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A simple solution
As the soldiers run to the cathedral, they spot an alien warship flying toward them. The ship stops and hovers above the cathedral and a latch opens up beneath the ship. A huge bomb drops from the ship and blows the cathedral to bits. In modern hollywood fashion, burning chunks of the cathedral fly right at the camera. Now there would no longer be a horrible gun battle in this church!
Problem solved.
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And if it were an islamic group making the lawsuit you better believe somethign would be happening, heck you cant even post a comic putting islam in a bad light without people bending over backwards not to offend them....
if i remember correctly the issue with the comics wasn't because it put Islam in a bad light but it was because of the way the prophet Mohammad was being portrayed. (not that i am saying they didn't over react)
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