US Says WTO Won't Let In Russia If Allofmp3 Comes Back To Life
from the something-seems-wrong-here... dept
With Allofmp3.com announcing that it plans to reopen the site now that (once again) the site has been found to be legal under Russian laws, it didn't take long for the RIAA... er... U.S. government to make its unhappiness clear. A spokesman for the U.S. Trade Representative has announced that if Allofmp3.com reopens, then Russia has kissed away its chance to join the WTO. This isn't all that surprising, given that the U.S. (at the urging of the RIAA) threatened Russia that it would keep the nation out of the WTO unless it shut down Allofmp3.com. Of course, it doesn't make much sense either. This is a private dispute between private entities. It doesn't seem reasonable for the US gov't to be getting involved. Secondly, as should now be quite clear, Allofmp3.com is operating legally under Russian laws. So it hasn't done anything wrong either. Just because some companies in the US don't like the fact that Allofmp3 has come up with a business model that customers actually like, it doesn't mean that the US gov't should ban Russia from the WTO. And, of course, this doesn't even begin to get into how ridiculous it is that the business model of a single small company should be the key factor in whether or not an entire country is allowed into the WTO. In the meantime, given how often the US has been ignoring the WTO over the Antigua online gambling case, perhaps the WTO should simply ignore the US on this one.
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I told you so
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Re: I told you so
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If they would wait
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Is America The Schoolyard Bully For The World?
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Re: Is America The Schoolyard Bully For The World?
Anyway, the bigger issue is that corporations are allowed this much control over politics, especially foreign policy. However, there is probably *some* amount of sales lost due to sites like allofmp3 (despite everyone giving lip service to the fact that if they "really like a song" then they actually buy it). So I think that the record labels are correct in trying to limit their damages (don't say its a broken business model, that is beside the point). That said, I don't think they are correct in their tactics. They really do need to embrace the newer business models and compete solely on merit, not an established monopoly.
Like it or not, Russia has a *LOT* more to gain by entering the WTO than being "home to allofmp3.com" Even still, I don't agree with them changing laws just to close the loop, but at the same time, digital communication wasn't prevalent like it is now when they were created...so even if they are revamped to accommodate technology improvements, then that doesn't make them evil.
I think it is funny how people get upset when old laws hold back/prevent technology (especially borderline questionable ones) but they are all on the "its legal, so its ok" when it enables something even if the old laws didn't deal directly with the said new technology.
Now to wrap up this long rant. Also as an American, I used allofmp3 (currently use mp3search.ru and mp3sparks.com) so I'm not trying to say that these sites are bad/evil/whatever. I'm just sick of idiots spewing off garbage on topics they obviously have no clue about or can't see the big picture.
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Re: Re: Is America The Schoolyard Bully For The Wo
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Well, it is getting closer to election time......
What about the idea that a Nation is sovereign and that its law makers make the laws for their own countries? I know I bristled when the EU told Texas what to do about its laws relating to capital punishment. Can you imagine what the Russians are thinking?
This is the last thing that should decide WTO membership. What about Russia's absurd claims to the North Pole? THAT, more then any other reason should have been brought up.
But, then again, the elections are coming up soon, and RIAA is likely dangling their pen over the check book and wondering how many zeros - and commas - to add to the number they scribbled on it....
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Re:
You did vote, right???
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So...
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bravo
Brilliant...
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WTO list
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after all, RIAA >>> american government
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> President Vladimir Putin said that the Russian Air Force would resume regular, long-range patrols by nuclear-capable bombers over the oceans.
One would think, there's absolutely no connection... =^.^=
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Idiotic lobbying
Steel, oil, electronics, military equipment are acual industries, music/software is just a microscopic niche.
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BigEd for President...
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Re: BigEd for President...
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Law
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Re: Law
Another unfortunate situation is allofmp3 "acting under russian laws". Thats nice and all, but it means nothing if its not russian music their listening to.
That said - allofmp3 has the most intuitive system and RIAA should be working with them to find a common ground.
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Re: Re: Law
2) Since you mention music as it is coming FROM the United States: what of all the music not made by Americans? You might know some of them, you know, like The Beatles, Pink Floyd, U2,...? Even if their record company would be American in origin and is part of the RIAA, the artists and music are not. So by your own reasoning, you know, where the music is coming from and all that, how do you legitimize the fact that the RIAA is trying to prevent allofmp3 from selling non-American music?
3) and what kind of retarded argument is that second paragraph in general anyway??? so your reasoning is: we're in country X, and as long as we're talking about products from/made in country X, the rules of country X apply, otherwise, the rules of country Y, where the product was from/made, should apply? If that's the case, everybody in the US (world for that matter) should start ordering pot from The Netherlands. And all gun lovers outside of the US should start ordering American guns..."screw you your honor, Swedish law does not apply to my gun, it's American so I have a right to own and carry it"
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Re: Re: Law
Listening to music from another country does make you subject to their laws any more than reading their literature would. That's absurd.
Go home, RIAA troll.
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Re:
It does not rip them off. It has tried to pay, but the RIAA has refused the money. It has created a business model that works for both fans and artists. To say they "don't deserve" profit shows a profound misunderstanding of the market.
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Re: Mike
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Re: Re: Mike
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Re: Re: Mike
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You Got That Right
Allofmp3 is probably the BEST example of how to use the Internet to conduct business. Everything about that website is awesome and I hope they do come back.
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America kicked out of the WTO
The USA's repeated defiance of international court rulings in favour of Antigua has led up to this event.
President Bush said in an earlier press conference that he didn't realise the USA could lose a case in the WTO and thought it only applied to those Damned Ruskies.
Cheers,
Dean Collins
www.cognation.net
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I cannot believe that a company has the power to sway U.S. foreign policy. It really highlights in my mind the question, "if the riaa can pressure the government to keep a country out of the WTO, what power to other lobby groups have?" It's actually scary.
Allofmp3 sells music, it doesn't give it away. Isn't selling music to make money what the RIAA wants? I think it actually wants to control all of the music so only it has authority to sanction sales. Ridiculous.
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Re:
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They Never Shut Down
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Well if that's the case...
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Re: Well if that's the case...
Oil companies are a huge special interest group with tons of influence in their nations. They don't really have said nations interest in mind, only their own. The RIAA is only a... ummm, special interest group with tons of influence in their nations. They don't really have said nations interest in mind, only their own. Er, forget that one too I didn't mean it.
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Re: Racketeering
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U.S. and the law
With Canada and the softwood lumber, the lost under NAFTA Treaty and the U.S. did not pay up (oh they lost 3 times). Then it went to WTO and the U.S. lost again and again and again. The U.S. still refuses to live up to the WTO rulings.
Did you know Canada is the U.S. largest trading partner and they still will not follow the rules.
Maybe Canada should stop trading with the U.S. to teach the U.S. Government a lesson that they have to follow International Laws and Treaties.
What this will no to the U.S.
We are your largest supplier of Oil & Gas and Electricity.
And Canada has always been friendly to Russia.
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Nah!! AllofMP3 is just an excuse
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World War MP3
One would think, there's absolutely no connection... =^.^="
MP3's are a good reason to start WWIII.
I am so glad I live in a country that agitates for more conflict than any other country in history.
We simply hate peace and we need another long drawn-out cold war to justify spending the majority of our budget on weapons of mass destruction (Terrorism probably isn't enough to justify the money spent). We are, after all, the largest arms proliferators in the world. We literally arm the world!
Americans need to face the fact that many elements in our government profit off the suffering of countless human beings. In America we do it best, and by that I mean we profit the most of from the suffering of humanity.
So lets build that missile defense shield and start ramping up the production of the next generation of nukes. We may need them to stop MP3 piracy for the RIAA. What's the big deal with a few million lives lost when there are profits to be protected?
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The Job of a Government
To continue this analogy, "Then the person stealing my product and selling it turned out to live in another country where my laws don't apply....the people on the Internet said I should just give up and accept it."
Guess what? This is one of our government's jobs. We can't privately settle this between 2 private companies because the laws are different. Governments must settle this and one of the ways they do that is by leveraging whatever power and influence they have.
To those that say "Well music should be free so ...." -- well it's not. Go lobby for change; avoid stealing.
To those that say "Private industry/companies shouldn't be able to sway foreign policy...." -- um, you think we would associate or have any dealings with foreign governments if business wasn't involved? If we didn't need to import/export goods, we would have no reason for dealing with anyone (and don't harp on the early isolationism policy that got us blown up at Pearl Harbor…I'm simplifying a lot here). The government sets up treaties and trade organizations so that all the companies of the governments involved will be held to some set of rules...some common ground of laws.
To those that would bring up the US's own indescrepencies with the WTO -- yeah...you've got a great point. The US probably should be kicked out of it. But two wrongs don't make a right.
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Re: The Job of a Government
What the people on the internet are saying is "Stop telling that lie, RIAA."
That's not all you're doing.
I haven't anyone else claim that Russia is violating a treaty with the US. Just exactly which one would that be? (What, you didn't expect anyone to ask?)
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Re: Re: The Job of a Government
As far as "the argument starting with a lie"...maybe I misunderstand allmp3s business model. The only way it wouldn't be "stealing" (as I said) would be if they were purchasing a copy of a CD, then reselling it only once to one party for whatever they wished to charge. Buying one copy of the CD, then selling copies of it to anyone else without compensation to the seller is stealing. And guess what, if the seller doesn't want them to do it, it is there right to stop it (I don't care how bad of a business model you think it is...if you don't like it, don't support them in any way.
If you think your "give music away free" model is so great, why haven't you started up your own recording label? At the very least, stop supporting anything under the RIAA's control.
On to another point, did I say anything about Russia violating any specific treaties with the US? You do realize the story is somewhat about the WTO though, right?
I believe my comment about treaties was specifically aimed at why "private industry/companies can sway foreign policy" and then was generalizing about the reason many trade treaties and organizations come into existence (because of companies wanting to trade globally).
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Re: Re: Re: The Job of a Government
Seems you're the one telling lies. And no matter how often you repeat it, it doesn't make it true.
What? And hire turf-trolls like you to spread lies on forums? No thanks.
Then just exactly which treaties were you referring to? None, apparently. Just more of your BS. Treaties between the US and other countries don't apply to Russia, no how much you might like to pretend otherwise.
And I believe that you were trying to convey that Russia was somehow violating some treaty with this, which they aren't. You got caught and now you're trying to worm out of it. Nice try, but you got caught and digging your hole deeper isn't going to help you out of it.
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If I was a RIAA exec..I would be hesitant to make enemies of Russia. This is not some kid d/l from his dorm. Costing Russia billions in trade might not be the smartest thing to do..
Can you say Polonium?
/hopefully, Russia executes them all slowly
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