Boston Police Still Calling Random Light-Up Devices 'Hoax' Bombs
from the it's-not-a-hoax dept
Earlier this year, a Cartoon Network marketing promotion became a huge story in the city of Boston when police assumed that some promotional light-up boxes were actually bombs. Rather than admit that they made a mistake and overreacted, the authorities in Boston continued to accuse the folks behind the promotion of perpetrating a "hoax" on the city. Of course, a hoax is where you try and trick people. None of the folks involved in the promotion were trying to trick anyone into believing the promotional devices were bombs. They were simply promotional. However, Boston still seems to be focused on calling any electronics device they don't understand a hoax device. The latest situation involves an MIT student wearing a sweatshirt that included a homemade electrical component that would light up LEDs on the sweatshirt. It's certainly understandable that security would want to check out the device and understand it. It's even somewhat understandable that they would be quite concerned about a homemade electrical device found in a sweatshirt. Walking into an airport with such a device is asking for trouble. However, to then accuse her of possessing a "hoax device," seems a bit absurd. This wasn't a "hoax" device at all. She wasn't trying to trick anyone.
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I fly in and out of Logan all the time. Yesterday I unpacked my laptop bag and realized that I've been carrying a razor sharp, folding knife through Logan security for the last 6 months. I've cleared security there at least 12 times in that time frame, they've never found it.
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Do a little more research
The devices which caused the panic were not up for weeks. They were placed the night prior.
There was a LEGITIMATE bomb threat at one of the hospitals BEFORE the light boards were called in. A device which looked like a pipe bomb was found and security had observed what turned out to be a fired employee saying "Someone's going to pay today" when leaving the building. The light board hoax came in while they were investigating THAT. Thus they had to take EVERYTHING seriously that day.
With regards to this idiot today...she walked into an Airport, post 9-11 with a circuit board and wiring protruding from her shirt. She was holding a ball of what turned out to be playdough.
When she was at the ticket counter asking about a flight into Boston from Oakland, the airline employee observed the object in her shirt. When she asked the idiot about it, the girl walked away not responding to the question.
What were the police supposed to do? And that wasn't Boston PD, it was State Police who took her down. She's lucky she wasn't shot.
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Re: Do a little more research
As I said, they were correct to check it out and figure out what the device was.
They were *wrong* to then say it was a hoax device. Once they knew it was a simple device for lighting up a shirt, they should have been done with it. There's nothing wrong with them reacting cautiously and investigating what the device is. However, once they know it's not a bomb, to then call it a hoax device is ridiculous.
Why is it so difficult to understand this?
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She IS lucky they didn't shoot her. Angels protect idiots, I suppose.
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Do a little more research? you DO mean the DHS yes?
Perhaps DHS should HIRE some people CAPABLE of looking at a device and DETERMINING what it is?
Any 19 year old computer geek/Make Website Fan should be able to handle this.
That said, I don't think that she should have been allowed to wander around frighting DHS employees, (I'm pretty sure the general public would have known better than to freak out.) but a quiet "You cant wear that in here, we are freaking out" & an escort from the airport would have been the correct response.
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A cursory glance, which is all airport employees had, and that device looks suspicious at the absolute least.
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Uh, what was the intention behind this device? It was clearly designed to look like a bomb. Then by definition, it was a hoax device.
It was definitely supposed to resemble a plastic explosive, and therefor was a 'hoax' device by definition.
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One more thing about the light brites...
Instead he went home, sent an email to his friends asking them to stay quiet about the things.
But the Police are the idiots.
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Re: One more thing about the light brites...
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The airport person was an IDIOT
She had things printed on her shirt about it, lights blinking on a board around her neck, and had what looked like playdough in her hands.
She's lucky they didnt shoot first and ask questions later.
Has no concept of bad taste....
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Re: The airport person was an IDIOT
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I wonder
Looks like the girl gained weight since her blog pic was taken. My guess is she was getting her ass kicked in her sophomore courses, plus whatever family troubles she had at age 20, going out with some trashy guy from Oakland, ....
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Then what was it?
Having been deployed twice, and having seen what sorts of crazy UXOs and IEDs terrorists are capable of conjuring I would have shot her on the spot. I don't agree with the response to the Adult Swim ATHF signs, but they should have dropped her to the ground and zip-tied her.
I would say that hoax device is an accurate description of what she was carrying. Regardless of whether or not it was art, the sweater was meant to deceive people into believing it was a bomb and that the play-doh was plastic-explosive.
Furthermore, I don't see how your interpretation of what a hoax device is any more correct than that of the arresting officers. I also fail to see how you are an expert in explosives or even know what your typical IED would look like.
-fin
Thales
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Re: Then what was it?
The story notes that she *often* wore this sweatshirt. She didn't just decide to put it together to wear it to the airport and trick security.
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Re: Re: Then what was it?
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She said she was there to pick a friend up. Did they follow up on that? Was the friend story legit, or was she simply using that as an excuse after realizing what she had done wasn't such a good idea?
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That said, I see a great opportunity for someone selling shirts saying "NOT a HOAX" in flashing lights. I'd buy one. ...Just be careful where you wear them... ;-)
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Seen this item?
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/8a5b/
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Re: Seen this item?
Dumbass.
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Boston's "finest" - a bunch of boobs
Let's just admit that the Boston PD don't collectively possess enough gray matter to differentiate between "problem" and "no-problem" situations. So rather than admit it, they simply demonstrate their stupidity again and again and again...
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Re: Boston's
* The detectives union is complaining that the State Police is taking over MBTA-related homicides. Earlier this year, the same union complained that the homicide unit is being overworked with too many cases per person.
* The State Police (the department involved in this matter) is still having trouble with their academy cadets and "unauthorized" hazing.
Excuse my terminology, but what do you expect from a bunch of mick cops? Thanks to the way-lefties, freedom of *anything* for the majority is all but extinct (think of the Dodo bird and you will get the picture).
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You want to detect suicide bombers, ask the Israelis how to do it, they're good at it. Not many flashing billboards on real terrorists clothing.
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OR, she might not! Therefore, if she ISN'T wearing flashing lights it could mean that she really has a bomb!
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The Boston Police appear to need some Paxil.
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The Mass state police LOVE their MP-5's and will take them out any time they can.
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hoax device
(b) For the purposes of this section, the term “hoax device” shall mean any device that would cause a person reasonably to believe that such device is an infernal machine. For the purposes of this section, the term “infernal machine” shall mean any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both, by fire or explosion, whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically. For the purposes of this section, the words “hoax substance” shall mean any substance that would cause a person reasonably to believe that such substance is a harmful chemical or biological agent, a poison, a harmful radioactive substance or any other substance for causing serious bodily injury, endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both.
Um yeah...it's a hoax device. To quote Mike, "Why is it so difficult to understand this?"
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/266-102a.5.htm
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Re: hoax device
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Re: Re: hoax device
Apparently, Massachusetts' court system did not get that memo when it came to the decision on same-sex marriage. Where was the people's choice in that?
And, the people never got a chance to make their own ruling on this matter; the ballot question was squashed in the state congress due to some stupid level of legislative insanity.
I've said it once before and I'll say it again: THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!
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Re: hoax device
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FYI
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The only thing that would cause a person to believe what she was wearing (or even more so in the aqua swim case) is going to too many Die Hard Movies.
The cops should stop going to adventure movies and read this article. http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=1916&siteSection=20
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1. Someone standing out from the crowd.
2. Someone blending in with the crowd.
Damn, sounds like just about everyone!
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Any real life experience?
-fin
Thales
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Re: Any real life experience?
Remember, almost anything can be an IED. So then why isn't EVERYONE detained? Anyone COULD be carrying an IED. Especially in a country at war. Right?
I get the feeling that anyone who questions authority would be in Gitmo if you had your way.
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Re: Re: Any real life experience?
As for Guantanamo: the overwhelming majority of people being held there deserve to be there. Furthermore, it isn't a gulag or a deathcamp. The detainees are treated humanely. (Being captured on a battlefield kinda blows the "I'm innocent!!!" defense. =))
As for questioning authority: Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not Tank Man. Neither was she.
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"The employee asked about the plastic circuit board on her chest, and Simpson walked away without responding, Pare said."
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/09/mit_student_arr.html?p1 =MEWell_Pos3
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"THIS IS ART," PEOPLE! GET YOUR F@#~!#& FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Absolutely! Waterboarding is just another way of bathing!
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Yeah, you have to make them bathe. Hence the waterboard. It's for their own good really.
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As for "Gitmo", I was actually stationed there briefly. And if I had my way she would be shot, as would you for your ignorant comments.
-fin
Thales
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What a freaking wing-nut sock-puppet hypocrite. No surprise, once again.
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2) I hope she's prosecuted - for something. Stupidity must be punished.
3) You don't have the right to scare people.
4) Law enforcement aren't engineers.
5) A blinky board? She's in college and she's making blinky boards? .... I guess that's a major accomplishment... for a woman engineer. Zing! =D
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They're selling haox bombs over the internet!
Quick, somebody call it in!
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Re: They're selling haox bombs over the internet!
We're talking about a crude, homemade piece of crap. Oh, yeah, she was also PLAYING WITH PUTTY.
AND she REFUSED TO ANSWER a question about her crude, homemade piece of crap.
Again: you don't have the right to scare people, Joe Jackass isn't an engineer, and anyone dumb enough to walk around an airport - acting the way she was - deserves whatever she gets.
Just because you have a problem with authority figures - since, honestly, this is what the anti-cop/pro-girl bullshit boils down to - doesn't mean you have the right to scare the public.
"Don't tase me, bro!!!"
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OH NO! She didn't hear the question the first time and they had to repeat it! How dare her? Shoot, shoot, shoot!
And when the police asked her about it:
"However, she was rational, and she did answer all questions as required"
She's in the engineering program at MIT.
People like you scare me. Collectively, you're a far bigger threat to my daily safety and this country than OSB or AQ could ever hope to be.
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Yeah, most people get real cooperative when the cops get involved. lmao.
Joe Jackass isn't an engineer. The average citizen wouldn't know the difference between an LED and a resistor. Nor should they be expected to.
You have no idea how hard I just laughed. My friggin' stomach hurts.
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Idiocracy
1. She probably isn't stupid.
2. She probably isn't used to dealing with stupid people either.
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Re: Idiocracy
...and you're calling the infobooth chic stupid?
Get real.
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You're saying a person has to be highly intelligent to work an "infobooth"?
Talk about getting real.
But I can excuse someone in such a position because they aren't particularly dangerous. It's the cops with the submachine guns that are the problem.
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Re: Idiocracy
2. As for dealing with stupid people - the writer seems to think higher education means not stupid. I'm constantly amazed at the stupidity of many college graduates, regardless of school or major. It wouldn't surprise me if as many as half of the engineering graduates in America think it is all about following formulas and equations and have never learned to think. I meet many people with no more than a high school education who know how to think and are far from stupid! This brainless MIT girl was stupid in her failure to react in an intelligent way to a curious question that an intelligent person would have expected somebody to ask sooner or later. By walking away without replying she showed how stupid she is.
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My 2c for what it's worth..
If you walk around an airport carrying (or wearing) any kind of homemade electrical circuit and something in your hand that could be plastic explosive, you should expect to be at least questioned by airport security.
If you ignore them and walk away, you should expect to get shot.
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Re: My 2c for what it's worth..
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Which is precisely why the police (over)reaction was idiotic. Her shirt was just as likely (or even less likely) to be an explosive device as the business man's laptop.
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A 5-year old probably would follow orders quickly or correctly enough. They'd obviously have no choice but to shoot the little bastard. Can't be too careful you know.
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The Scary part...
Why don't I hear people complaining about innocent people being beheaded? Why don't I hear complaints about convoys of -OUR- soldiers being ripped apart by explosives? Why don't I hear complaints about the torture and murder of soldiers? Why aren't you complaining about the fact that -OUR- soldiers are dying?
No, you think that complaining about the motives behind the war and how things have changed after we were attacked is the same as supporting troops and complaining about -their- treatment. You take something like this and try to twist it into an example of how our government is out of control? Do you have the ability to have a dissenting opinion about the government without being black-bagged? You liberal morons disgust me, because that is what a majority of you are, you mistake your own political agendas and personal morals as patriotism and support for our armed-forces. Forget this discussion... I can't understand how Techdirt is in any way a method of corporate America to get its finger on the pulse of America considering their methodism here. Take a story they know nothing about and pretend to be experts; I HAVE AN MBA! Funniest part is how many people complain about the evils of monopolies and corporate America, then they boost up Techdirt whose purpose is to provide companies with partial news stories with a twist of an amateur opinion. Officially removed from my google page...
I think I'm going to go read some actual news.
-fin
Thales
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Re: The Scary part...
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I will forever curse CNN for stealing Kiran! DAMN YOU CNN!
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Re: The Scary part...
I think most of us 'liberals' support the troops, we simply don't support the reasons they are there. We would rather see them come home rather than die in the name of panic and terror. Remember, terrorists are called terrorists because they want to spread TERROR, not because they kill people in the process. Stories like this just remind us that they've already won, regardless of what our troops do overseas.
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Sorta like the deadbeat Dad who says he loves his kids, but hasn't done jack for them in years.
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Re: The Scary part...
Black bagging? As in over-the-head? That's kind of your specialty, isn't it Gitmo boy?
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Re: Re: The Scary part...
I'm sure you're too damn busy playing with yourself to realize it, you insignificant little fuck, but the military is protecting your worthless ass.
Maybe in fifty years you'll realize just how much.
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Re: Re: Re: The Scary part...
I come from a family with a US history that goes back to back to 1600's colonial days and we have fought with distinction in every damn war this country has ever been in from the revolutionary war forward. There's even a general or two in there. Sure, my family has sacrificed and died for this country, but so have many others. That doesn't make us special, we just try to do our part.
As for my self, I did my bit in the military. These days I'm one of the guys who provide the "protection" that keeps people like Gitmo Boy alive. I'm a weapons engineer designing the kind of weapons for the US that make it the top military power in the world today. Yes, that's right. I said that our weapons technology is mainly responsible for our military power. Consider this: In the Iraq conflict, if the weapons technology roles were reversed who do you think would have prevailed? I mean if Saddam and his troops had all the weapons the US had (nuclear submarines, intercontinental nuclear missiles, aircraft carriers, stealth bombers, cruise missiles, etc., etc., etc.) and the US troops had the weapons Saddam had (a bunch of rusty old Soviet tanks, etc.), do you think the outcome of our invasion would have been the same? I can practically hear you screaming "Hell yeah cuz our troops is da best! They can do anything!" but that's bullshit. It would have been a massacre of US troops. If not for people like me. So just who's protecting who?
As for Gitmo, I've actually been there so I'm not speaking out of total ignorance. Most of the people in the military are fine people who join the military for various reasons, mostly related to a combination of benefits and patriotism. But there are a few bad apples who see joining the military more as a way of getting away with things that would land them in prison as a civilian. One of the most disgusting things I encountered in Gitmo was listening to a couple of the bad apples brag about mistreating prisoners. These guys were basically bullies in uniforms and their attitudes reminded me of the poster who commented about how he would basically like to murder those whose disagree with him. So I dubbed him Gitmo Boy. For all I know, he may even be one of those individuals I encountered there.
So GoblinJuice, if you and "Gitmo Boy" Thales ever feel like being the superheroes you think you are, I suggest you forgo the mere mortal technology that people like myself provide and just go running into battle bare handed using your superpowers to conquer all. I won't miss you two a bit. And neither, I suspect, will the people you would have liked to have murdered for disagreeing with you.
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I fail to see how what you have said has any relevance on what we have been discussing. No one claimed to be a hero, I certainly didn't, and I sure as hell didn't say I would murder anyone who disagreed with me. I didn't exult my greatness or beat my chest, I stated facts which I knew to be true and stated my opinion, never placing myself above anyone other than the jerk who posted about communist China. In fact I think I went out of my way to establish I had no part in any inhumane or dehumanizing acts with in "Gitmo"... but I guess when you're in a rush to seem like an asshole you can't be bothered to read. I'm so glad that your family tree and the weapons that you produce have single-handedly given us an edge in every war and conflict the country has taken part in. After this I'm going to write a letter to my congressman telling him that my training in the Army was ineffectual and pointless and that we simply need better weapons. Never mind the fact that a grunt on the ground with an M16a2 and proper training is one of the most effective and discerning methods of combat.
My sister was near the second tower when it collapsed, she was in the Army at the time on leave visiting her boyfriend, she was caught in the collapse and killed... that was my reason for joining, and I served for her. It wasn't to seek revenge, if that were the case I would have applied for an infantry position. Prior to joining I was working towards a degree in computer programming, now I'm finishing my 1st year of medical school with the idea of reenlisting if possible. Don't presume to call me a bully when my intentions are to help people... don't presume to think that you are a hero either. You obviously can't read the discussion that has gone on here, but hey, you make the weapons that save the world, right?
-fin
Thales
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Liar.
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-fin
Thales
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Thales
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I think I'm going to call this discussion in the corner of those who agree with me, when you consider the concise method with which we've dissected their hypocritical crud I would say it is a knockout. Furthermore, just to be a l33t-d00d; I agree, I call Godwin's Law... therefore the discussion ended when the issue of Hitler was introduced. Not only do I win in a logical, civil debate, I guess Yar wins for being the first to call shenanigans on the anti-Bush/Anti-War rhetoric. Kudos to him and those that can actually have a discussion without turning into incoherent, slavering boobs.
*GONE*
-fin
Thales
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Bullshit. I think his meaning was clear.
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"
You know, the last time I checked the M16 was a weapon. Maybe you should tell him you don't need any of those either.
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Re: Re: The Scary part...
Goblin, 50 years to think won't change anything.
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You don't speak for me. I'm quite a bit more reasonable than that.
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WTF?!
I am not now, nor have I ever been a terrorist sympathizer, patriot or partisan to American politics. I am, as a point of fact, a British citizen with some American friends.
Having said that... people, sections of your country's government & law enforcement are seriously out of control !
This incident is just one more example of what happens when you have an atmosphere of paranoia and rampant authoritarianism... and frankly, given the tone of some of the commenter's here, I am not surprised.
Good Lord people, whatever happened to "Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave"?
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Not saying it's right but...
But it's still there. You'd have to have been living under a rock since mid-2001 to not know that walking around any airport in the USA (let alone Boston) carrying any kind of homemade exposed-wires-and-batteries circuit board is going to result in at least some questions. Or on a bad day, a bullet first and questions afterwards.
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Hey, but you must have volunteered, so suck it up and enjoy the good times. Lemme guess, you kinda get hard when you hear taps?
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The sad thing is:
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She's lucky she didn't pull this stunt in another
Whatever opinion one has about the reaction to this person's behavior, she initiated this situation and did nothing to diffuse concerns about her "art." No matter how "smart" this woman is, she did something stupid.
Part of any punishment should include working at Logan Airport for the TSA. Who knows, maybe one of her classmates will pull a stunt on her.
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And according to your ignorant comments, i can just put blinking LEDs on my bomb and it should be able to go any where.
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The really Sad Thing
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What are we coming to?
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Society of Fear
On another note, it makes me sad that our school system releases so many graduates in such abysmal ignorance that a kiosk attendant is excused for not knowing anything about a few simple electronics just because she isn't an engineer, and then everyone here takes it as valid. It is shameful how ill-informed the majority of our citizens are. It is even more shameful that we find it acceptable.
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smug
But it doesn't consider context. Let's see, Logan airport - origin of 9/11 multiple fiery death planes. Um, would it be surprising that Logan employees might be just a little bit overly vigilant, maybe even bordering on paranoia? And knowing that, even if you were 100% harmless, wouldn't you want to at least try a little bit to avoid calling attention to yourself? And even if it's wrong, oh, so WRONG to do that to an innocent student, especially in OUR United States, wouldn't it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, they might make an example of you, and it might stick due to political pressure?
Of course not. This is normal behavior for an adolescent college student, even a brainiac. "Nothing can happen to me - I'm invincible, I'm smart, and mummy and daddy will fix it if I make a little booboo. ROTFL!" And by her smug expression in court, it's pretty clear that she doesn't give a sh*t. At least her own mother had the sense to say that she was stupid. She's essentially right, but extremely stupid.
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Couldn't help myself...
I was a 97Bravo, Counter-Intelligence, and I was responsible for disseminating information from enemy-combatants and detainees. I can say this with certainty, I never treated anyone with disrespect or inhumanity. I never struck, chained, whipped, starved, tortured or debased anyone I came into contact with. I hear about how Fox News twists things into a conservative, Pro-Bush direction but what about the news you receive? You've heard somewhere or another than we are torturing and mistreating EVERY captured person... While I can't speak for things now, or previous to my arrival in Cuba, I can say that it did not happen when I was around. I will concede that there is no such thing as a non-biased media, which is quite remarkable considering the liberal fools who posted can't offer the same introspective evaluation of their beliefs. I will also concede that facts were skewed and hidden prior to our invasion, but there are facts that none of us are aware of. I like to think that our government is willing to play the part of the bad-guy because certain facts are classified or sensitive, and I also like to delude myself, for lack of a better term, into believing that in 50 years information will be declassified that exonerates what has transpired in Iraq.
Truth be told, I don't support the war as it is being fought, I don't believe the motives of our invasion based on the facts presented to us, but I do believe that I was doing the right thing. I was partnered with an Iraqi translator right out of AIT, he and I became friends despite the stereotypes we both assumed of each other's culture and we often clashed about the morality of the things we were both doing. However, we both agreed that, once the zealous religious sects and foreign fighters were ousted, Iraq would be a better place than it was when Saddam was in power. This translator's brother, sister-in-law and their children were all victims of torture and murder, and several of his cousins were killed during sectarian attacks after Saddam was deposed, but he still believed these things... He believed that what he was doing was creating a country where something like that wouldn't happen, he believed that he SHOULD be entitled to the same freedom's Americans are able to enjoy, he believed that it was worth dying for the cause of creating a new country, he believed that we (*American Soliders) were "Godsent". He also knew that there would be many, many more casualties before things got better and that it was likely he would be one of them. The point? He was willing to die for the betterment of his country, and I am willing to die for the betterment of ours and his.
You are right though, I did volunteer... and you didn't... so when you speak of what happens in Iraqistan or "Gitmo" you aren't speaking from experience or personal insight, you are speaking from someone else. Isn't that what most liberal, Bush-haters accuse conservative republican's of doing? Eating the patrio-facist, delusional lies that comprise Fox News' broadcasts? Look inward...
-fin
Thales
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Re: Couldn't help myself...
That seems a little hard to believe coming from someone who has professed a desire to murder people for making comments he disagrees with. No, it sounds more some kind of canned denial being read from a script.
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Re: Re: Couldn't help myself...
A professed desire to murder people? *GASP* You've found me out! But man is the most dangerous prey of all!
Using the same thought process we could safely assume that any jovial, good-natured (or otherwise) threats that have ever been spewed from your officious craw or have guttered from your fingers are a window into your homicidal urges? If not then I call you a hypocrite.
-fin
Thales
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Re: Re: Re: Couldn't help myself...
Jovial and good natured? I don't think so. But if you're entertained by such things then I can see how you'd think that. I always wondered who bought those kind of videos.
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Hitler!?
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Re: Hitler!?
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a happy (? okay, less hostile) medium
Some of your comments about shooting her are a bit over-zealous,but the idea of letting her walk around the airport that way seems a bit like asking for trouble. I think stopping her to investigate was completely appropriate and necessary. I used to carry many electronics with me while traveling, but have used my common sense to determine that it would no longer be a wise decision, and so limit myself to first the necessary components now. I think others should do the same, and not bring in anything other than a cell phone if you're just picking up someone. The rest (including artsy circuit-board shirts) is entirely unnecessary to the task of retrieving your friend.
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Gitmo
A friend of mine encountered a corrections officer in a Sams club store and beat the crap out of him because as he explained to me he was the kinda guy that thought he was tough on the inside, but for real he was a chump on the outside.
And about the Vietnam thing, I am a Vietnam Vet and it gripes my azz to hear that 20 years later they finally admit that Vietnam was a joke. 53,000 lives lost, for nothing, you would have thought we learned our lesson about going to countries having a war to make other people live the way we do when they really don't want to live like US. Lets stop now and not let another 47,000 lives be lost. Not to mention how Vietnam vets are treated.
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Re: Gitmo
But I guess you would know, having taken that census, and having seen those specials on MSNBC. It always amuses me when people complain about violence and perpetrate it themselves, or condone the actions of one group and not the other.
-fin
Thales
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# Re: Gitmo
You just don't know it yet.
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Re: #
In case you can't tell that was sarcasm. There are more things in life that shape who I am and will be than my military service and political beliefs. You are a prophet, zcat.
-fin
Thales
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Re: Re: #
Better still, run it backwards. What were guys like Victor saying back when they first signed up? Probably something about doing the right thing, freeing the popilation.. I guess you'd have to go look at some old newsreels or something.
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BOSTON SUCKS
Boston is total shite, so is all of Massachusetts. The Boston police, and ESPECIALLY the Mass State Police are all scumbags!
Screw Boston. And screw all of you tools who beg to live in a police state, I hope someone flies a rusty airplane full of AIDS and broken glass into your face. Pricks.
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Re: BOSTON SUCKS
You rant about tools, but you spew the same recycled opinion everyone else does. Do you know what communism is? Have you lived in an actual police state? I don't think so, but I'm sure the same mental delirium that inspired your garbage post will cause you to say yes.
-fin
Thales
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GoblinJuice = =Thales ?
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"I was a 97Bravo, Counter-Intelligence, and I was responsible for disseminating information from enemy-combatants and detainees."
...No wonder we haven't caught UBL.
You're impulsive. You rise to being baited. You're easily angered. You don't listen carefully to subtext. You believe this black and white shit, when the world is all gray.
You can't win an internet message board argument in English. You're getting played here by amateurs. Why on earth would anyone expect YOU to be able to elicit anything useful from enemy combatants?
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Re:
That sure describes a person that shouldn't be going around with loaded guns. I'm glad he's out of the military and pray he never becomes a cop or prison guard.
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911 started out of Boston
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Re: 911 started out of Boston
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Appropriate to call police. Disorderly--yes.
a) A breadboard with wires, scotch tape, LEDs and a dangling 9-volt battery was crudely attached to a shirt.
b) The black shirt had hand lettering on the back saying "Socket to me" and "Course VI".
c) Unlike a gameboy or an ipod, this device could intentionally heighten security concerns.
d) It was completely appropriate for a non-engineer to call in the experts to investigate.
e) Society does not need to be permissive to disorderly conduct and antagonistic hoaxes. Thanks #59.
f) The 19-year-old is a good candidate for the Darwin Award as her own "Socket to me" suggests. Thanks #84.
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You understand "Socket to me" is a pun?
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By the way, saying "this is art" and walking away is not an acceptable response when you're questioned about a potential bomb on your person. They decide when to stop asking questions, not you.
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Re:
...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
You NEVER have to answer questions.
If we give up the constitution, then they've already won.
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Re: Re:
You're not obligated to answer questions, but they're not obligated to let you into the airport either.
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Re: Re: Re:
They don't have to let you through security, they do have to let you in the airport. She didn't try to get through a secure checkpoint. Would MP-5's have been an appropriate reaction if she had worn the "device" to Copley Place?
You realize the goal of the terrorists is not to win, they know they can't. Their goal is to force us to change the way we live. They are achieving their goals with our hysterical reactions.
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Re:
"I'm as liberal as it gets"
Oh man, you just made me snort my coffee...
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Re:
And no, they don't "have" to let you into the airport.
Was Copley Place an origin point of the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history?
By the way, this very same thing would have happened if she had done this in September 1995 or 1975. Airport security and ticket agents don't mess around and never, ever have.
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Re: Re:
We disagree. This was theater. The liquid ban is theater. The shoe thing is theater. The lite brite thing was theater.
And no, they don't "have" to let you into the airport.
If you have legitimate business there (which she did) they do. The can move security out if they like, but it is a public place.
Was Copley Place an origin point of the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history?
No, but it's a moot argument. Copley Place is a far better target for a suicide bomber than an airport. Any mall is. Any movie theater is.
By the way, this very same thing would have happened if she had done this in September 1995 or 1975. Airport security and ticket agents don't mess around and never, ever have.
B.S. Airport security is a joke, it always has been. Getting weapons onto a plane is trivial, even now.
This incident was another example of security theater.
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Re: Re:
How old are you? In 1975 you could buy a plane ticket for cash, on the plane, with no ID. They didn't even start screening passengers for weapons until 1973.
You ever hear of D.B. Cooper?
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getting shot
you need to worry about enemy soldiers(terrorists). It sounds like anything that doesn't look like an ipod looks like a "hoax device". guess I'll leave my Cowon at home.
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I'm also not a fan of the "Airport security isn't any good, let's just throw our hands up and give up entirely" line of thinking, either.
What specifically is "theater" about what this girl did?
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Re:
What the girl did wasn't theater.
What the cops did was theater. Submachine guns were theater. I'm not saying she shouldn't have been talked to, but drawn weapons (let alone MP-5's), were a huge overreaction given the "threat".
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Re:
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Re: Re:
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Again, she's holding an LED device *and* carrying Play-Doh or putty, which absolutely could be construed as a plastic explosive.
Again, they don't have time to take a look at the thing up close. They can only go by what they see from a distance or what they're told.
Again, she had a chance to explain herself ("It's art" is not an explanation) and didn't do it.
Again, with a potential suicide bomber and lives at stake, you have to act and react instantaneously.
Airport screeners and ticket agents are not trained explosives experts. I'm not going to play the ridiculous Slashdot game of "They're too stupid to know better," but...if they see something that looks remotely suspicious, they must act.
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Re:
In you F3, he's succeeded.
"Freedom isn't free" means that in a free society, sometimes innocent people die in terrorist attacks.
Absolute security and freedom cannot co-exist.
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Re: Re:
Do we draw the line at not having police officers at all? The ability to incite a riot if we feel like it?
No, these are not rhetorical questions, I'm serious: where is the line drawn between protection from crime and a loss of freedom?
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Re:
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No ID
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/71115
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Idiot
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Re: Idiot
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Next time I hope they shoot her fat ass
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1. She probably isn't stupid.
2. She probably isn't used to dealing with stupid people either.
Seriously... how can you say taking something that any normal person could at least guess - *might* be seen as a IED by someone else into an airport a good idea? Regardless, if upon 2 seconds of observation it could have been ruled out as an IED, the fact remains - she did a series of stupid things..
College Student != automatically = intelligent, that's for certain.
Actually an intelligent person would have known it was a good idea, to first talk to security about it, prior to even going to the airport. A simple phone call, and then a stop by the security office would have done wonders.
That or maybe - what an INTELLIGENT person would have done, it talk with security and put it in a bag and check the luggage in.
Or perhaps an intelligent person would have sent the item to their destination first via FedEX or UPS.
An intelligent person might have checked the TSA's web page to determine if there would be any cause for concern when wearing a bread board and holding silly putty. Google would have been helpful.
An intelligent person might have waited, answered all of security's questions, and made sure there were no further concerns before attempting to go further into the terminal.
Intelligent people don't go into airports with 'silly' putty and other electronics that might give the impression it's a 'concern'. An Intelligent person would have *known* that ahead of time and not made any assumptions.
The fact that she did not think of any of this ahead of time, either makes her quite stupid or in dire need of attention.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/09/mit_student_arr.htm l
According to what I read there, she walked away without saying a word about it.
That's quite stupid, indeed.
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well no shit
In BPD's case, would it have been so bad to admit they didn't realize these were cartoon devices? They are a police force, I would think they are too busy for watching late night cartoons anyway.
Hoax, my ass. The hoax is on us for having police department that are so stupid and stubborn.
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When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail.
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How do they train these guys
She was arrested for having a hoax device - if a breadboard with a few wires and a flashy lit up sign is a hoax device, exactly what training do these 'security' guys get?
Appropriate response to a would be ask to leave, escort outside, check device, apologise for inconvenience/warn that wearing stuff like that in an airport is likely to scare people who know nothing about bombs/security etc
That’s if your man has a clue about what constitutes a bomb - but since this is Boston where flashy signs and roadside traffic counters are bombs you have no chance (yes they also blew up a city owned and positioned traffic counter as a 'suspicious' device earlier this year)
America - land of the pacified and home of the scared
I'm just waiting for the first time they have to justify shooting a skier as "it looked like he had a bazooka"
Be honest - the Nazis you employ in airports are just there to remind everyone that you sure as fuck have no rights, and you can and will be screwed with if you so much as even THINK about stepping out of line
Keep drinking the Kool-aid – nothing to see here
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/22/us/22airport.html?em&ex=1190606400&en=cb58d156ee5 f2222&ei=5087%0A
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Argh!
These people watch too many chuck norris movies. What kind of moronic terrorist puts light up doohickeys on a freaking bomb? "Hey, lookee at my bomb! It tells you how much time is left, whether or not it's active and glows real bright so you cna find it easily!"
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What does a car bomb look like? A car. What does a shoebomb look like? A shoe. Could this have been a bomb? Yes, it could have. Do you want to be the person responsible for walking up to someone in an airport and asking "excuse me maam, is that a bomb?"
The way to execute that mission is from as far away as possible with a long rifle.
Had this happened in Iraq, I am pretty sure someone would have zapped her. Considering what happened concerning Logan 6 years ago, it wouldn't have been unbelievable that she would have been shot.
Personally as soon as I saw a pic of her with the statement, I figured it was some kind of prank.
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Re:
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And once again, crying about a "police state" and "overreacting" are glossing over the fact that THE GIRL COULD HAVE BEEN SHOT, AND *WASN'T.*
Also, the object clearly fits the legal definition of "hoax device," so there's no problem there either.
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Re:
Notice the lack of the phrase "by an idiot" in there.
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Stupid
Maybe they are stupid though, this is the same bunch that - upon seeing all the kids going crazy after the sox won the ALCS in 2004, started shooting them down from rafters with souped up paintball guns filled with pepper spray. They didn't manage to kill any of the kids by shooting them off the rafters, but they did manage to kill a college aged girl with a direct shot to the eye. Anyone who has ever seen or heard of paintball knows that you wear eye protection for a reason. None of them could have figured that out before they deployed this "non-lethal" weapon? Or did the O'Finnegan company make and sell the paintball guns...
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Where do you folks live that you live in this fear? I am currently in NYC, listening to all the sirens since the President of Iran is speaking at Columbia University and the President of the US will address the UN. What slope do you speak of? What police state do you address?
Get a clue.
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The Greater Good
But the benefits don't stop there. Like the waves from a stone dropped in water, they continue to radiate outward. Consider the immense benefit the news media derive from such stories. Without stories to cover all those people would loose their jobs and that surely wouldn't be good for society as a whole. And then there are all the hard-working public servants who finally get some richly deserved face time on TV to communicate with the public they so faithfully serve. Many of these people also have children that they're trying to support. If nothing else, at least think of the children.
Finally, consider the entertainment value that society as a whole derives. The billions of dollars a year we pay Hollywood to entertain us (money well spent I might add) shows how vital entertainment is to society. It's no coincidence that these things are usually played out like Hollywood movies (except we don't have to buy tickets). Ancient societies understood this well before there was any such thing as a mass media and used such contrivances and public executions and human sacrifice in much the same way. How likely is it that the sacrificed individual would ever have contributed as much value to society in any other way? Not likely, I say. As such, they should be grateful for such an opportunity. Like the girl at the airport. An engineering student? What a waste. We don't need to be making engineers, we can buy all those we want from overseas and at lower prices. We need entertainment and this was her opportunity to rise to the need.
To the naysayers amongst you, I say that your value to society is obviously low. But don't despair, opportunities to better yourselves through self-sacrifice are plentiful and I, for one, would be glad to help you meet such an opportunity. For the greater good, of course.
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Find a real, tangible issue of this country turning into a "police state" and pursue that. Trying to make this girl out to be a near-martyr is a waste of time.
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Re:
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Thales, PeteF3, GoblinJuice...
How many sock puppets do you have anyway?
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Yes, a slippery slope
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What police state are you talking about?
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The problem with a bomb is that, ideally, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHAT IT IS. So you can't just "look at" something and determine that it's not a bomb. At the same time, you can't throw up your hands and say, "A terrorist wouldn't do something like that, that can't be a bomb," either.
Other problems: airport security doesn't pay enough to land any sufficiently tech-savvy computer geeks and keep them. Any ones it does land are going to grow bored out of their minds looking at x-rayed bags all day and their work is going to suffer for it.
No, there aren't really any easy answers here.
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Re:
The nation much appreciates your exemplary service.
George Bush
gbush@thewhitehouse
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i know one...
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