Want To See How Pointless Shutting Down OiNK Was?
from the the-hydra-at-work dept
When the file sharing system OiNK was shut down last week, we pointed out how silly it was for the recording industry to go after such a site. The RIAA has been shutting down sites like that regularly for years, each time claiming that it was a significant blow against piracy... but then many more new services would pop up, each one more underground than the last, and the amount of file sharing would increase. In other words, this was a strategy that doesn't work at all. Predictably, some folks came by to attack us in the comments, insisting (incorrectly) that having your music on file sharing sites meant you couldn't make money and that the RIAA needed to shut down these sites as a "deterrent." That, of course, is ridiculous. The simple fact that every time these sites get shut down more open up and more people use them shows pretty conclusively that it's never been a deterrent before, so why would it start this time? In fact, as TorrentFreak is monitoring, a bunch of new sites have quickly sprung up, attempting to replace OiNK. In other words, by taking down this one site, the recording industry has just helped create a bunch more, many of which will build up pretty strong followings. The end result doesn't make things better for the recording industry -- it makes things worse. So why do they keep doing it?
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: file sharing, significant blows
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Presumably if each is more underground than the last the ability to get accurate statistics on music sharing would get increasingly difficult. But techdirt confidently states it is increasing ; clearly that's what you hope or even guess, but if you actually know then you must be a culprit !.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
If a site doesn't want you to have good stat's then they are very hard to get. You could of course just make something up and hope it becomes a "fact" but you probably know what techdirt thinks of that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
I have no doubt that they are in active communication with many operators of many torrent sites, and have no need to hustle statistics,because they can get them from the source.
So what? If you want to accuse them of something, go waste the Feds time, not ours.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
And sorry, but what is it with every moron that bashs the article not leaving a name or an email?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
You could easily find torrents that were far more than "a month or so". In fact, I believe those were actually in the majority on that site.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You had to keep your ratio of uploads to downloads above a certain level. This meant when you were downloading something, it would be fast. I have personally had speeds of 1.5Mbps and above on oink.
Add to this the fact that all submissions had to be of a high quality, and you have a recipie for a damn near perfect download site.
To the person who was looking for an invite... they are quite hard to come by. You must have uploaded over 20 gig and have a share ratio that is 1 or over (ie shared more than you have downloaded) If you are really looking for one bad, you could go onto the IRC channel and beg.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
When these new sites appear, the old sites are near-instantaneously duplicated because the old site's power users are the first to sign up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Following your logic: A car dealership gets closed down for selling stolen cars. The same car models will never be found elsewhere? Or very hard to find elsewhere? Your logic is flawed.
Trust me, those of us who like sharing will do it regardless of what RIAA/MPAA/etc try to do, especially in countries where laws are non-existent or debatable.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Legal Logic
Radiohead and others have done the smart thing; firmly establishing their rights to be the only people profiting from their artistic work .... but if you happen to want to listen to it for free, go right ahead. The funny thing is that their new album is still widely available on bittorrent ... illegally, despite it being available for free on their website!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Legal Logic
Is Radiohead putting copy protection on their free music, or using some proprietary format?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Legal Logic
Of course this is probably specific to the US...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's Simple Supply and Demand
Until the media companies learn (which seems impossible) that "value" must be part of the transaction, then people will still pirate. I support eMusic and Mindawn precisely because they put value first in their offerings by not foisting DRM on me, having very reasonable pricing, and generally not making it a hassle to do business with them. The rest of them? Who cares. I sure don't.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hail Hydra
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Free is the way to make money
The Trent Reznor produced Saul Williams album "The Inevitable Rise And Liberation Of Niggytardust" was released today. There was a pre-order period where you could choose to pay $5 or $0 for the album (though unlike the Radiohead model, the tracks for paid downloads are lossless and include a liner note/lyrics PDF).
Not being familiar with Williams' work, I opted for the free download. After listening, I decided there were enough good tracks worth paying $5 for, so I did. I probably wouldn't have come across this album if it weren't for the free option.
So, giving away the album has made Reznor and Williams richer (at least from my pocket). Selling the album traditionally would have netted them nothing. That's how free works.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Insanity
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
If the RIAA is that pissed about pre-release music maybe they should look to record company employees who are giving it away. I mean where else could pre-release music come from if not for music industry employees?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Sure, there was pre-release music on Oink. But they were scene releases, albums uploaded elsewhere first then uploaded to Oink by someone who wanted to boost their ratio. People posted yousendit (or sendspace or megaupload) links on forums at the same time that they'd show up on Oink.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
:P
Just in time for christmas free leech too...
To any oink users, all you need to know is the username of the person who invited you and your account will be given back to you...
WOOT
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There will always be more
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
OINK users
Any OINK users want to drop me an invite, sounds like its quite worth checking out.
Aside from that. I heard ahead of time that Linkin Park was changing their sound with their new album Minutes to Midnight. Seeing as I thoroughly enjoyed the first two Linkin Park discs (not counting Reanimation, but I did like some of that too), I wanted to know if I would like the disc before buying it. As others have stated, a 30 second snippet here and there is not enough to know if you are going to enjoy it. So I went to the torrents. I checked LP's website, and it had this 13 thousand some odd minutes to midnight thing on there. Wtf was that? I just looked up LP on the torrent, found out their newest album was actually Minutes to Midnight. Got the whole album in about 5 minutes because there was a bagillion people with it. I loved the new album. I realized after reading the name of the album from Torrent, that their CD wasn't actually coming out for another two weeks. I couldn't wait for it to come out. As soon as it did, I went out and *gasp* Bought the album. My only qualm about that is that I know LP wasn't getting pretty much anything from me buying that disc. I would rather give them money directly than let a stupid ass recording industry group get a single penny.
Main point is, without hearing, I would not have bought it so soon, as since I liked their sound before, and heard they were changing it, I would have waiting until I heard quite a few tracks one way or another before buying a disc.
You guys can call me a 'pirate' but you are wrong. Those mp3s on my machine are legal. I own the cd.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Comparison to Hydra?
Note: This analogy would imply that the RIAA is Hercules, which could not be farther from the truth.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RIAA is like the Bush Administration
It's the same issue of the RIAA - Ego.
They know it's the wrong move to make - Both Bush and the RIAA - but they have stated so emphatically that they will go after these "heathens" like "cowboys"; so they can't give up or their pride will be at stake.
However, the Bush Administration is slightly smarter then the RIAA - at least he Bush Administration makes a ton of money for their campaign contributors, the RIAA's actions cost themselves, their artists, and their partners much needed revenue.
Idiots.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: RIAA is like the Bush Administration
The industry is slowly coming around, but just like in the movie "Mr. Deeds", you almost have to convince the Record labels to hate money.
Even though the industry has been such a mess i think a lot of good can come from it. The consumers, being fed up, now have a more open mind. This leaves the gate wide open for new companies to come in and innovate.
In my opinion the company that will succeed will be the one who puts the consumer and artist first, and the money second. This, being impossible for big record labels, means their imminent demise. But for young startups who can pull this off, this will be a great time period.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: RIAA is like the Bush Administration
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward = Devils Advocate
Radiohead and TAFKAP (or is it back to 'Prince' again?) have killed the music industry in most Western markets, it just doesn't know that it's dead yet. Direct provisioning to the public of the music leads to better sales at the concerts, where is where the money is for the performers. In the age of (reasonably) widespread broadband, downloading a CD is no longer the pain it once was. The band make the music, provide it to their fanbase at low cost, sell-out concerts to make money, to pay for the next round of recording.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Anonymous Coward = Devils Advocate
I hope this clears things up. :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Anonymous Coward = Devils Advocate
I was thinking "jeez that guy is active on a lot of blogs..."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Legal Fraud
Get rid of all these BS laws and we will have a much happier world.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Legal Fraud
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Trouble With Tribbles
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The Trouble With Tribbles
Don't hold your breath on the Major Labels taking that advice, though.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I remember...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I remember...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I remember...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: I remember...
Quick example of idea: file sharing has caused a rapid depreciation in the value of music as a product. The industry will have to evolve into one where music is used as an advertisement or promotion instead of a product. Let people hear your music and get them to come to concerts, purchase merchandise, and buy expanded content. This idea would kill big record labels, because the profit margins are not insane like they used to be, but does anyone really care if they go away? This would also open the market up to tons of potential new music as the record labels would not control 90% of the distribution.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: I remember...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: I remember...
I'm glad you brought that up. Considering that corporations are legal "persons" in the US with the full rights of a biological person (according to the Supreme Court), then yes, actions that kill off a business model and result in the death of a corporation IS MURDER!!! That's exactly what it is and you can't argue that. Period. I bet executing a few of these file sharing punks would have an effect on their activities.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I remember...
File Sharing isnt going anywhere, and like most users of file sharing(not the majority) i also d/l music and if i like more than a couple tracks on that album i'll go and buy it, otherwise, im not spending my money on crap, and who ever thought the first 30 seconds of a track was a good enough sample to convince me to buy a track or album, thats why i like real(brick n mortar) music stores where you can actually listen to the full cd prior to buying it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
New Trackers!
I also know of at least 12 BRAND NEW sites to open this week aswell.
Theres no way to stop filesharing.
If Bands would release their music like Radiohead and NIN (which I paid $15 and $5, respectivly for) I would go that route every time.
What I will NOT do is pay $15 or more to cover the MASSIVE overhead of the record industry. I will not pay for record executives, A&R's, business lunches, private jets, Virgen MEGA stores full of crap with a 10k a month rent.
I download stuff I don't even want just to get it out there. Lets take down this corporate money machine 1 torrent at a time.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
New Generation
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: New Generation
I'm also a bit tickled that your angle on convincing the younger generation that copyright infringement (*not* stealing, by definition) is wrong is to say that an unseen, all knowing being who aloofly watches over us all has told us all it's wrong. *Very* convincing, sir. :D
Finally, where does it say I *should* pay for something that costs nothing to reproduce? I think there's a pretty good argument that making someone pay for something that is infinitely abundant *is* stealing. :) :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: New Generation
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: New Generation
Even back before the internet, I didn't pay for all the music I listened to. Most people didn't. Friends would copy tapes and CDs for each other or make 'mixtape' compilations to help friends discover new music. We would sit in front of the radio with the pause button on tape drives pushed down, ready to release it if we heard something we liked. This was a way of discovering new genres and new artists, who we would then go on to buy records from and attend concerts. Remember when "home taping was killing music"? It didn't and neither will file sharing.
Nothing's changed today, only the medium by which we share music and the loosening of the RIAA's grip on its monopoly. When you bought those precious vinyl albums, little cash went to the artists but to middlemen - retailers and businessmen who saw the music as little more than a product. Today, we're heading towards a way of buying and sharing music that doesn't need 20 layers of corporate interference for us to pay first.
I also own over 2000 vinyl records (as a former DJ, I bought 10-20 each week), as well as close to 1000 CDs and 45Gb of legally obtained downloaded music. The file sharers of today are the home tapers of yesterday, the bootleggers of former eras. Music will thrive, just not in the top-down corporate monopoly structure we have today. I for one am glad. Everybody share, you are making the music world a better place!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: New Generation
By the way you ignore the new testament I'm also guessing that you're not a Christian. But still, I'm reminded of the story of Jesus multiplying the fives loaves of bread to feed the multitudes. He didn't run to the bakers and buy a bunch of bread. He took what he had, multiplied (copied) it and shared it. That seems to me to be a lot like file sharing. Did he "steal" bread from the bakers? No. What Jesus a "thief"? No. But if you call people doing things like that thieves, then that's exactly what you're calling Jesus. However, if you're not a Christian then I suppose you don't care about that or that Jesus didn't much like hypocrites either. If you are, then brother, you better think about what you're saying and start doing some real soul searching. Fast. You never know how much time you have left.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stealing, Pirating, and Your God
Here is my god's 8 I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts. They are far superior to the 10 commandments. Muhuhahaha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gospel_of_the_Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Oh, and just for reference, the history of the FSM was simply to create an argument against teaching Intelligent Design in a science class in school, since it has Zero scientific proof. And I don't really believe it. But if I did believe in a god, this would be it, just because its funny as hell. The 8 I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts are great though.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Laws
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Torrenting, Piracy and R.I.A.A.
Now, I paid for it once.
The artist got their money.
I'm not using any of the production expenses that went into actual packaging.
I can only play it in once place.
And I'm one of the people they want to shut down?
I wish you'd die oh R.I.A.A.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Torrenting, Piracy and R.I.A.A.
Now, due to a tragic Easy Bake Oven accident, all your legally purchased CDs get melted together. Your rights to listen to the music in CD format didn't get melted together.. will the labels replace all your CDs? Can you then download the lost music and burn them to disc?
So many questions.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re #48
It is one of the analogies I put up in previous posts, which I believe I actually saw Mike make on this site before that. I stole the analogy from somebody on this site way back when. Think it was Mike. Maybe not.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re #52
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Laws are not all good or enforceable
As in this situation, the government should just give in.
Concerning this article, the Record Labels should just give in.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hehe
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Why
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
-- The Real Anonymous Coward
[ link to this | view in chronology ]