Student Films Principal Fighting Another Student... School Board Bans Mobile Phones
from the what-are-we-teaching-our-children? dept
A few years ago, we wrote a story about some students filming a teacher's angry outburst in a classroom and putting that film up on the web. Rather than disciplining the teacher for the outburst, the school disciplined the students and banned mobile phones. The lesson? It's okay for teachers to act inappropriately. It's not okay for students to reveal that behavior. It seems other schools want to teach that same lesson. The Agitator points us to another school that has banned mobile phones in school after a student filmed the principal in a physical fight with another student. At least in this case, the principal was put on leave. No matter what you think concerning mobile phones in schools, it seems pretty clear that this change in policy was brought about because of the principal getting filmed. If anything, that should be a reason to encourage more students to have mobile phones -- so that they can expose inappropriate behavior. Apparently, the school board believes its better to just pretend inappropriate behavior doesn't exist rather than to document it.
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Filed Under: bans, mobile phones, schools
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not right
Orewellian best describes this.
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Re: not right
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Re: not right
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If my kids went there...
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At Least?
I don't know if it's the reporter or just a bad choice of words but the "subsequently forced" part makes it seem as if the principal would not have been relieved without the video.
We need more information. Why were they fighting? Did the principal start it or was it self defence? Of course even in the linked article it doesn't answer those questions.
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Re: At Least?
There are way to many issues here.
See, on one hand, cameras are good because they can tell exactly what happened.
On the other hand it remove the persons right to act in a given situation.
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Re: Re: At Least? by Anonymous Coward on Dec 21st,
And remember, "your freedom ends where someone else's nose begins..."
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Re: Re: Re: At Least? by Anonymous Coward on Dec 2
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Back in the day...
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Re: Back in the day...
I say give everyone cameras, they I can sue them all for invasion of privacy.
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Re: Re: Back in the day...
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Re: Re: Back in the day...
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Re: Re: Back in the day...
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Re: Back in the day...
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Re: Re: Back in the day...
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Re: Re: Re: Back in the day...
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Typical
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Church?
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Rise up youth
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sutdent fighting principal
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Re: sutdent fighting principal
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Not Surprised
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So they just need to start carrying digital Camaras with them instead of cell phones... problem solved. I did like the whole "back in my day" you know your gonna get a BS story when it starts out that way which is really "I am so out of touch I think we should do things like we did back in the 1930s.
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Level the playing field
In the case of the school disctrict in question, they need to find a compromise as well. Out right banning electronics from school in today's world is ludicrous.
As to the rights of the persons captured on recording media, get used to it. If you are in a public place you should have NO EXPECTATION of PRIVACY. The majority of a schools premesis (with expceptions of areas designated as private) should be considered public places.
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Problem is
While I will agree that students with camera phones will help document the problem teachers, I also believe that its too easy to take a portion of a situation out of context and abuse the evidence so to speak.
I love how some issues end up with the majority concluding which party is the victim and which is the victimiser regardless of the full story and/or lack of evidence to come to a reasonable conclusion.
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Re: Problem is by AnonJr on Dec 21st, 2007 @ 8:05a
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But
just my 2 cents
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both sides?
If there's an emergency, I think most classrooms by now have either a phone or intercom system to convey that message to someone. If there's a home emergency, they can always call the school's office and have them pull the student out of class. If a student needs to call a parent after school for a pickup or something like that, why not allow phones at the school, but not in the classroom. They can keep it in their locker. At the very least, students should have their phones in silent mode during the class.
Obviously, I do not think it is appropriate for a teacher to hit a student for any reason unless the student was intending bodily harm to someone in the class. A cell phone with video capabilities would be a good tool to record what actually happened. But, the danger with all things like this is that it can often leave out much of the story, or just pick up the second half of what really happened.
Case in point, my uncle is currently subbing at a school for a teacher who was forced to go for hitting a student. What I found out after my initial reaction is that the stupid kid decided to piss on the teacher. If a 17 year old was pissing on me, my initial thoughts for reaction would probably be something along the same lines. I'd probably think better of it a few milliseconds later.
All that being said, maybe if a school is really that bad, they should have cameras in most of the classrooms recording what happens at all times (if they could afford it which is probably not).
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Re: both sides? by MikeP on Dec 21st, 2007 @ 8:13a
And what if that student had a mental disorder? Granted, if it was a bad ass kid, then I think they should be sent home, suspended, in-school suspension, or ANY thing else other that striking the kid... What's that gonna teach? "It's okay to hit someone who pisses you off"? Or "pisses on you..."? Seriously, that just reinforces negative behavior...
And cell phones belonging in the class rooms are irrelevant... If they aren't being used, then there isn't any harm... And some schools actually don't have fully functional phones/intercom systems in every room (I came from a high school who had classes in the auditorium, which didn't have an intercom, and where some classrooms didn't have a (functional) phone... And administrative staff (teachers, principles, secretaries, etc) tend to confiscate any cell phone on school grounds (like in the hallways) during school hours if there's a "no cell phones in the class" policy (and you can't record those actions if the phone is being taken away from you...).
Not everything is as black and white as people make it seem (about the cell phones). Hitting a student is as black and white as it seems (it's against the law...period...child abuse is a federal crime, I believe...and now that I've said that, it probably isn't, lol).
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Re: both sides?
"Do cell phones belong in the workplace? I don't personally think they do. They are a distraction to the team if they go off and there will always be those who will text and such when they should be paying attention."
Better than banning phones (ridiculous), the administration should ban their use during classtimes, much as your boss would ban you from making calls during a meeting.
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I completely disagree....
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The school I worked at had a ban on cell phones, but every kid had one anyway.
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How 'bout this?
And, Why NOT have cameras in all public areas?
Accountability should not need picture-proof, but it does.
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Re: How 'bout this?
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Schools and Video Phones
So I have an extra special inside view regarding teacher student relationships.
In the past when you acted up you got to go see the Vice Principal, he was the guy that had the paddle, so you got your ass warmed and sent back to class. Learning new things was a bit easier after this.
Today if a student acts up, the teacher gets stabbed and the student is sent home to wander the streets and attend anger management. I think that if a fight between a teacher and a student happens, it's to a very high probability that the student escalated the situation.
It's to bad that todays schools spend more time indoctrinating our kids to be good little sheeple, than teaching critical thinking and reason.
Situational ethics at the grade school level create poor thinking kids.
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Re: Schools and Video Phones
Lastly, technology is evolving faster than I can type this and most students today have a cell. Rules need to be enforced once they are established or else they need discarded and more reasonable/enforceable rules need to be inacted. No usage during tests seems a no-brainer and perhaps that device they use in theatres could be used then.
As far as airing only partial and/or edited content for the purpose of doing harm or resulting in harm to the party recorded...wouldn't that be liable?
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Parents who don't care create poor thinking kids, don't blame it on the schools. A school in Detroit has parent teacher meetings twice a year (like every other school.) Only 2% of parents actually show up to the meetings. What does that tell you.
I say, if the student doesn't care and the parent doesn't care, screw them. Kick them out of school until they ask to return (and commit to doing what they need to do)
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Double Standard?
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The Foolish and the Wise.
Schools are getting worse and worse, and more like prison. Its getting sick. The rules are getting more and more retarded, and punishments don't suit the issues! Don't punish everyone, punish the individual. My highschool was ridiculous. My principle hated computer and anybody that had anything to do with them. Living in an agricultural area, that made me the only computer geek non-farmer. When computer had problems he blamed me, I'd end up fixing them being nice to the teachers. Then he banned me from the school computers that I wasn't assigned to (all computers except the one I used in computer class). Then he banned my cdroms, floppy disks, flash drives and everything. He said they may be virus infected and he didn't trust me. So I started bringing my own damn laptop to school just to be able to do my work! People are power hungry and its getting sickening!
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I get it, we won't mind that Iran builds a bomb, thats ok, cause we have one too, right?
Some people have no clue how the real world works or how close they are to having their clueless existance shattered each and every day.
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Somebody
I've always said that the newer generations are way too overly sensitive with their children. These kids now a days do anything and everything and get away with it becuase teachers are too afraid to discipline the kids, and parents just don't care, or if they do they are too concerned about "Little johnny's Feelings" I grew up and i learned many things about Respect and Hard Work and being dependable. Today's kids don't know any of those and never will at the rate parenting is going.
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Re: Somebody
1. Hit me once and I'll ask why you did that.
2. Hit me twice and I'll warn you not to do it again.
3. Hit me a third time and (if I'm not incapacitated), I'll do what it takes to make you stop.
Our schools have been incapacitated so much (castrated is a very fitting word) that steps 3, 4, 5, ad infinitum, have all been replaced with step 2.
Teachers are powerless. Principals and Assistant Principals are only slightly less encumbered. And when a school actually does suspend someone, the kid goes home and holes up in his/her room and plays video games all day long or watches TV all day long (which is all they wanted in the first place) because the parents are off forgetting that their kids need _some_ guidance.
The reality of the school life is that my wife loves teaching all of the kids she teaches (middle school). It's the parents she has the most problems with.
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Principal in the wrong?
I do agree that there are some teachers/administrators that take it way too far, but they also have to keep control of a large group of kids while trying to teach them.
I do not think that banning cell phones from the school is the way to go, but I think that kids need to learn when it is appropriate to use a cell phone and when it isn't.
If I were a teacher and caught a student using a cell phone during a test (especially texting) I would confiscate the phone and give the student a big fat 0 on the test with no chance of making it up.
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Funny though because when I was in high school 8 years ago cell phones were banned. This was before you could film a movie on one. Also the school had video cameras and mandatory ID's. To think that this was an upscale suburban high school. Like everything in life its all about control and power. One day students will realize that the power really lies with the 3600 students and not the 200 staff.
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A Professional Perspective
From my perspective, this kind of blanket ban on mobile phones is abysmal. Mobile phones can be used for many educationally sound purposes, such as recording science experiments, documenting progress on a project, listening to audiobooks or recording lectures. Indeed, if they are used in this manner, they can provide a far more personal and rich learning experience for a student than most other learning approaches, due to the very nature of mobile phones, which is to be carried everywhere. Learning can happen literally at any place and at any time.
This blanket ban on mobile phones is educationally and philosophically short-sighted. It is akin to banning the use of all computers at school due to an incident there a computer was used in a way that made the school principal look bad.
From a professional educator's point of view, the biggest issue here is the reprehensible conduct of the school principal, in direct breach of his duty of care - not the filming of that conduct. The school board's subsequent actions almost suggest that it's okay to do something wrong as long as it's not documented. I believe students should be encouraged to speak out if they have been subjected to abuse, and to document those issues. Any other policy leaves the door open for inappropriate physical or sexual behaviour by staff or fellow students to go unreported or undocumented.
_________________
Educational Technologist, Canberra Institute of Technology
Lead Researcher, Australian Standards for M-Learning
Author of The Mobile Learning Blog
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All these "education" experts popping off. Everyone knows our educational institution is broken, why would we want to hear from the education experts that broke it in the first place?
Here is a novel approach. If there are kids that don't want to be in the classroom and are disruptive to others that do want to be there, kick them the fuck out.
Don't make my kid suffer because yours is a waste of sperm and will end up in prison anyway.
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Not Enough Information!
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Sued by a dirty look
The issue with phones is that their ever increasing host of features has become a distraction from the intended focus of daily education. And in todays letigious society, what is to keep a verbal altercation from being recorded then submitted as evidence in some lame suit by a student. I can see the docket sheet now.
Teeny Bopper vs. State Education System
Plaintiff Claim:
"My fragile sense of self esteem was damaged by Joe Teacher when they outed by desire to text my friend SuzyBob during class. Their raised voice and stern facial expression caused years of damage that I may never recover from. Fortunently, every damn kid in my class whipped out their iPhones and promptly uploaded the disciplining to youtube for use in this suit"
Two things should change:
1) Take away the toys. Phones have become an important asset with respect to safety but education must take precident.
2) These kids are stir crazy in an instant gratification society. Evolve the education system to accomodate for this.
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why
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cell phones vs. camera
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school fight
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HAHA
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