If You Could Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs, Would You?
from the just-say-no dept
Researchers are working on a cocaine vaccine that uses the immune system to attack cocaine molecules, rendering them ineffective. The vaccine, which is currently in clinical trials, could be a boon to recovering cocaine addicts -- approximately half of which relapse within a year of detoxification. With the vaccine, the biochemical pathways through which cocaine works are blocked, so, taking cocaine does not come with an associated high so addicts do not become re-addicted. Of course, the vaccine is in no way meant as a replacement for drug treatment, since it does nothing to treat the underlying psychological factors of the addiction. It is not mentioned if the vaccine can be used before addiction occurs -- or even before cocaine is ever taken. Granted, the current trials do not include that use, nor do they include children, but, if it were available, would parents flock to their doctors and have their kids vaccinated? And, what other maladies could be treated in such a manner? Reports from the 1900s indicate attempts to create an alcohol vaccine. More recently, Celtic Pharma's nicotine vaccine works on a similar mechanism to the cocaine vaccine, but for nicotine. Sure, you'd be hard pressed to find detractors against a cocaine vaccine, but if a nicotine vaccine became available would the tobacco lobby be worried?
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Reguardless
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Re: Reguardless
I'm no fan of cocaine or its users (If I wanted to hang around with irritating game-show hosts I'd move in those circles) but if we don't make our own mistakes then our learning stagnates then so does everything else. Yes, this does amount to "We need cocaine users". No amount of bullshit talk during my schooldays scared me off any activity. First time I saw a junkie I thought "OK, maybe this heroin thing is a bit iffy". If I hadn't encountered any junkies I might be at the heroin stage of my lifetime's experimentation right now...
So, your kid's vaccinated against cocaine use... let's hope they've developed similar products around heroin, barbiturates, horse tranquilisers, super glue, gambling, fried eggs, credit cards and all the other fun little vices we've come up with to pass the time.
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Re: Reguardless
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I personally am all for the legalization of all drugs but I have this issue with freedom and the government prying into our private lives. Yes, I know someone's gonna chime in and say that this is the most irresponsible idea yet, in that case then I can just as easily take the opposite and totalitarian approach and say we should ban EVERY mind/body altering drug cocaine, marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, chocolate... It becomes funny when people try to get me to take caffeine and chocolate off the list cause they don't think those are "real" drugs..
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Re: Re: Re: Reguardless
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Re: Reguardless
For now, anyways. Not that I believe that cocaine will ever be legal again (it was at one point), but I think that you have to be careful when saying that you can make permanent and irreversible changes based on the current legal status of something.
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Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs?
Plus, as soon as you vaccinate against one, they'll find something they haven't been 'protected' against.
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Re: Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs?
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This sort of solution to what is ultimately a social problem will never work. It's the cause of addictive behaviour that needs to be addressed, not the symptom.
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I would never want this drug-blocker taken any child or adult unless it was for recovery treatment in conjunction with current psychological treatments.
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Re: Re: Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs?
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Re: Re: Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs?
If it were, would you want to be one?
And taking a drug is not an act of free will? People take drugs attempting to create an effect. People watch TV attempting to create effects as well (usually to fall asleep) but may find them selves in a terrible addiction.
Maybe we should Vaccinate people at birth so they can't see, then they won't be susceptible to garbage media on TV and the related health problems, brainwashing, emotional, developmental or economical problems that lead to strain on society and the economy, right?
That's what the drug war is all about - money. That's also what pharmaceuticals are all about. With this it's a win lose lose situation.
Drug Companies = win!
"Vaccinee's" = scarred for life with unknown side-effects
Economy = Well the goverment will subsidize it, everybody wins!
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Re: Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs?
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Re: Re: Vaccinate Your Kids Against Drugs?
You mean sexually mutilated? How about your daughter?
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Mommy it hurts
It's an interesting idea, but I think to be on the safe side it should only be used on those that are already addicted and in conjuction with therapy.
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Re:
regardless, i think a vaccine of this sort would be disasterous
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Re: Re:
Vaccines containing killed microorganisms.
Vaccines containing live, attentuated microorganisms.
Toxoids - these are inactivated toxic compounds
Subunit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine
This one would be the toxoid type the same as tetanus vaccine and that is recommended to be given at least every 10 years.
"Results from both studies showed that the maximum mean antibody response occurred between 70 and 90 days post vaccination with specific cocaine antibodies persisting for at least six months. Eight subjects also received a booster 15-18 months post vaccination with TA-CD, all of whom showed increased levels of antibodies two to four weeks later." http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9529.php
So this shows that it will need to be readministered to keep up the effectiveness.
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This isn't going to do much unless either a) it's combined with other treatment - Oh, cocaine doesn't get me high anymore? Guess I'll start using heroin - to treat the underlying issues, or b) it's used at a pre-addictive treatment, or even without the person's knowledge. You'd pretty much try cocaine, not get anything out of it, and probably never try it again.
That said, it could be a HUGE boon for treatment programs - taking away someone's physical motivation to get high is a big improvement. If it helps with the withdrawl, it would even better .
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Good Parenting
And heaven forbid your children should ever be tempted to try sex...
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Re: Good Parenting
That great proponent of child sexual mutilation (circumcision) Dr. Kellog (of Kellog Cereal fame) had a solution for that. He suggested that parents postpone circumcision until the child reached puberty or was caught masturbating. The circumcision was then to be performed without anesthesia in order to teach the child a "lesson" about sex.
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Like Clockwork....
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Just a few additions...
I think that kids should be taught about this stuff. Some of them are going to do stuff that they know they shouldn't, but that's part of growing up and learning. Too many people want to the easy solution these days. Kid's on drugs? Well, give them more drugs so that they don't like them anymore, instead of getting down to the real issues that are driving the kids to use them.
What are the downsides to this drug? What about when an addict has been given this drug, then takes cocaine, but doesn't get high so he starts taking more and more in order to get high...will he still overdose and die?
Where's the Soma here? We need more people working harder in order to affect the root cause of problems instead of just treating the symptoms.
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Where does it end? I think some drugs taken responsibly are highly beneficial. I am a strong fan of magic mushrooms. You only need to take it once. The experience lasts a lifetime.
What is next? A vaccine against wanking off?
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Use it for rehabilitation, not prevention.
Moreover, questions of free will aside -
I think the individual who "feels" they themselves made the conscious decision to abstain from a drug enjoys an idea of fortitude in himself that one who abstains as a result of a vaccine would not. "Fortitude is the guard and support of the other virtues." - Locke
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Letting them off the hook.
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Vaccine's are already used for lots of things
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Re: Vaccine's are already used for lots of things
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Re: Re: Vaccine's are already used for lots of thi
Also, you're making them immune to a bad effect without their consent. That is hardly the same as vaccinating them for water, which isn't possible nor harmful. You're not taking away their free will, if anything you're enabling it. If they can't become addicted or high they can take it if they want and they can easily stop taking it as they are not at all addicted to the substance.
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Tobacco?
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I don't think so
Since this is still in early development, would it be possible that it blocks the effect of a narcotic drug to remove pain? Or possible another drug with similar chemical structure intended to cure an ailment? Or even the effects of exercise that act as a stimulant in the brain?
I would reserve its use for someone who was a serious addict at this point, who could possibly die without this help.
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Free will? Give me a break. Some of you need to start living in the real world. Len Bias would probably be alive today had he had no reason to "experiment" with coke. So would quite a few talented artists.
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Sure, parenting is still involved, but when I was a kid I did some pretty stupid things, things my parents taught me not to do (but I did anyway). I got lucky by not killing myself. If the vaccine is safe, why not rely on luck?
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Other vaccines have enough problems already, potentially even causing Autism in some cases. I would hate to think what new problems could show up down the road from a cocaine vaccine.
I don't take any drugs now, but I grew up in the 60's. Most of the teenagers took drugs. I tried cocaine and I didn't become addicted. My friends didn't become addicted. Only a very small % of people would let themselves become addicted with the extremely severe down side to it.
I would consider it for a recovering addict, but not for the very unlikely chance that my children might have a problem with it.
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Just another way for these companies to make more
Once again, people think that rather than treating the source of the problem, the person's behavior, they believe shooting up our bodies with more drugs is the answer.
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Devil's Advocate
Too many Jerry Springer what-if's.
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Stupid
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bad
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Re:
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on vaccination against drugs
I have raised 2 kids to adulthood, one a practicing Mormon, and the other a light social drinker, and I have 2 you ones still to raise.
I would not give such vaccines as general preventative measures, as that exposes them to the risks of the vaccine without evidence of need. But if they showed signs of difficulty and failed a drug test, my wife and I would have them vaccinated immediately as long as the vaccine was not clearly hazardous.
It is our responsibility to raise them until they are adults and provide guidance and oversight until they are fully responsible. And yes, this does mean that we do make decisions for them, fewer as they get older, but decisions none the less. That is a parent's thankless job - you may get the thanks decades later.
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Is Coke that bad?
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Drugs
That said the medical uses for most drugs would make me not want to prevent any child of mine from reaping the benefits of their administration.
I would not be opposed to an anti drug vaccines use along with treatment, for the addict.
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Who cares if you have an "addictive" personality or not. Most alcoholics I know, and cocain addicts for that matter, whould be HAPPY to exchange an addiction for say...sex...or kayaking...for the trials and pain of addictive drugs.
I am all for it ! Prior to crack comming along in the 80'2 did all the crack addicts lack "free will" and only obtain the "free will" once crack was a available. I think not.
Most of these arguments are circler and wrong headed. The cause of addictive behavior is addiction. Remove the addiction and you remove the addictive behavior.
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No
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Not truly a vaccine
Training the immune system to detect and react to molecules like cocaine and nicotine is making the body perform functions it would not naturally perform which has its own enhanced set of risks, namely that the molecules marker site may be non-discriminatory, causing false positives by the immune system. This could cause prolonged cold like symptoms if the falsely categorised molecule is prevenlant, or could impact the effectiveness of unintended compounds. If the cocaine vaccine also had an impact on novacaine, or morphine, surgical recovery or paliative care could become traumatic.
Almost all of us would have had tetanus vaccines, so this type of vaccination is not a completely dangerous process, however it needs to be matched to the risk of no vaccination. The chance of a scratch from rusty metal at some point is very high, and the chance of lockjaw without a tetanus shot in that case is extreme. That coupled with the huge amount of experience with the vaccine makes a systematic use a good idea.
For a cocaine vaccine, given that about 1% of people will try cocaine and about 10% of them will become addicted, the risks are not there to justify systematic vaccination. It would be an invaluable tool to prevent recidivism of past addicts though.
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So...
Duh, of course not! My child isn't getting a smallpox vaccination, or having her appendix removed preemptively, either, and for the same reason.
No vaccine is without side effects in al people (though autism is definitely not one of them). Some people even have bad reactions to Sabin vaccine (which is the safest vaccine there is).
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What if this were given to someone who was a recovering addict, and they were in a car accident or somthing, and had to go to the ER, and they tried to numb the area with Lidocaine so they could work in it...wouldn't this render the Lidocaine useless as well? Would people have to carry a medic alert tag that states they are no longer succeptable to these?
It's a nice idea if it helps addicts get over their addiction, but long term effects need to be taken into account. So I guess my answer would be No, I wouldn't give this to my kids, it's too new and hasn't been tested enough to suit me. Oh, and the fact that I believe knowledge is the best form of prevention.
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if it was cheap
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Re: if it was cheap
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