Is It Unconstitutional To Restrict Time On A Library Computer?
from the seems-a-bit-extreme dept
A woman in Florida is claiming that it's a violation of her First Amendment rights that a library is restricting the amount of time patrons can spend on a computer. She's also upset that they're asking for ID before you can log on. The library says they're doing this to keep the wait down for a computer, but the woman says it's to keep homeless people and other low income people from using computers. It may be difficult case to prove, as it hardly seems like the library is preventing people from using the computers altogether -- just limiting how long they can use them in a single sitting. Even then, the limit of two and a half hours, does seem pretty long. The requirement for an ID might be an issue, if there are people with no IDs, but it's still difficult to see this as a First Amendment issue.
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Filed Under: computer limits, first amendment, free speech, library
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First...
Anyway...I dont see how this is a first amendment issue at all.
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ugh
Second, limiting time isn't a first amendment issue. It's a "let other people take a turn" issue. You could also argue that not letting other people use the computer because you are hogging it is limiting their freedom of speech.
What we'll end up if she pushes is is federally mandated "speech freedom vouchers" that grant computer access time in libraries. I can see it now ... I'm sorry sir you are over your alloted freedom time for the day.
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limiting your use of a public service is not infringement of anything. youre free to go somewhere else, or use any other medium of communication.
this will take two seconds for some lawyer right out of law school to argue against and get it thrown out of court.
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Ooh... a tough one
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Re: Ooh... a tough one
Want access to the net for longer than allowed by the library? Simple: go to a cyber-cafe or buy a computer. Can't do that? Well... to bad. Computer's aren't air, people can do without if they can't afford the luxury.
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Re: Re: Ooh... a tough one
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Re: Re: Re: Ooh... a tough one
We pay taxes to keep the library open. Why restrict computer time while books are available all day.
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Re: Ooh... a tough one
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Re: Ooh... a tough one
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Re: Ooh... a tough one
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Re: Ooh... a tough one
There is nothing that you mentioned here even in the First Amendment.
The First Amendment deals with Congress and the freedom of religion, the freedom of speech, the press and the right to peaceably assemble in short. None of them applying to fair computer usage in the state of Florida.
I doubt our fore fathers even foresaw the use of a computer although they have been pretty thorough for 200+ years.
If you think this relates to the freedom of speech, then you are really stretching since a computer is usually used for "accessing" information.
This relates more to the golden rule. Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Surely you spent some time being taught to share. This lady in Florida needs to go back to the very basics and not worry so much about things she does not even begin to understand. Like the first admendment.
I don't know this Slashdot you mentioned but so far I am not impressed.
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Oh I know, let's sue the library for requiring an ID to rent a book!
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Time limit is fine as long as they treat everyone the same.
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Re: Mr. Librarian
My problem when I go to the library is not so much that they require an ID, but that the access to the computer is in such great demand. So I have to wait my turn just like anybody else.
The other issue is that the computers that are identified and reserved for access to the Library Catalog are often being used for unrestricted surfing by minors who do not care to wait their turn. They are there so you can locate other materials in the library system itself.
The library personnel has a tough enough job and they need to be allowed some ways to control access to the resources.
You do not get to go to the IRS and move directly to the front of the line do you. Try dealing with the Immigration and Naturalization Service in this country which is very humiliating. While these are clearly not first admendment issues, they are a far cry closer than the library system in Florida and have much greater restrictions. That is just the nature of the situation.
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Let's sue the libraries for charging monetary penalties for returning books late. It's my 1st Ammendment right to be able to read those books for as long as I want to! Screw you if you wanted to read that book. I had it first.
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If you agree with either of the above statements, then YOU are the problem.
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Limits allow others First Amendment access
Really the first amendment has to do with content not access to media. The nation's revolutionary fathers never stated that everyone has to have access to broadsides (or computers)just that the content on them is protected (to a degree).
My only question is however, is there a line of people waiting most of the time. If there are computers not being used it maybe a case of discrimination.
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Previous Precedent
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Why do sheep hate the Bill of Rights? ;P
As far as ID is concerned, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED! Just restrict access and visibility from minors, ie no using the PC unless your 18+. Sorry, kids but the chicken little excuse for violating civil rights is easily trumped by excluding you, thank your parents for their lack of responsibility.
And why do I get the feeling that they'll kick you off the computer even if there's no one waiting to use the PC.
I think we just need to pass a nice simple law to get rid of this "for the children" nonsense. Make it illegal for children to be in public or use public resources without a parent or legal guardian present. Heavy handed; certainly, unreasonable; perhaps but significantly less then standard process of blaming society for poor parenting skills.
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Re: Why do sheep hate the Bill of Rights? ;P
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Libary
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First Amendment
Can anybody explain to me how limiting time for a service provided by an institution has to deal with the text above?
Last time I checked, my rights end when another individual's rights begin. If I have the right to use a public library's computer, so does the guy waiting in line behind me. 2.5 hours is more than enough for basically anything, except maybe pointless mental masturbation by mindlessly looking at Wikipedia pages.
I also fail to see what is so wrong about asking ID. Don't they ask ID, ie a library card, to get books, also a service from the library. Both the books and the computers are resources provided by the library, why ask for ID for the books and not for the computer? If the book is torn, the library knows who was the last one to use it. If the computer is broken, why can't the library also know who was the last one to use it?
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Re: Clueby
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A question and a comment...
You are not required to have an ID to use the Internet services in our area, it just requires waiting in line and then signing a new User Agreement every time to get your login info.
And isn't a computer time limit just like a book-borrowing time limit?
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No one so far has the imagination to understand how in the future, as more of our communication takes place online, internet access will be inseperable from free speech? And how today you could make a case that a lack of internet access is a lack of free speech? Consider blogs, email, and forums. Where does all the political expression go down in your life? I'll wager at least some part of it is online, considering you're expressing your opinions on the internet right here.
Note the difference between making a compelling case and just having the basis for an arguement. The lady does have access to the internet for a reasonable 2 hours a day. Nonetheless, this suit does have something to do with freedom of speech, despite that something being beyond 23 responses.
Of course, if some of those 23 responses were correct then the internet is just a big place to look stuff up. A luxury item which has no bearing on our ability to functions as citizens in America.
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Re:
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Re: [Charming Charlie]
Argue for anonymous Internet access all you want, but it is not a first amendment issue unless Congress is setting the rules of computer use for that library.
�
(Repeat) First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech..."
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Restricting use of library computers
federal benefits such as using library computers.
US v. Babcock clearly states that when Congress creates
a benefit, the recipients of the benefit have NO remedy.
Did you know also that the ENTIRE government is made up of
private corporations?
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the time limit is stretching the first amendment i
I am not a lawyer, I only play one on TV.
The anonymity is a first amendment issue. You have a right not to be known in a political discussion, so if you have radical views you can not be persecuted for them. Think of Ben Franklin writing as ‘publicus’, or the authors of the federalist papers. The founding fathers were looking to protect people accused of terrorism (remember that is what the British accused them of).
The library knowing who you are and at what time you are at the terminal would eliminate any anonymity. They probably should not allow video monitoring of those area’s as potential first amendment violations either.
( I disagree with the right to a false name on a social networking site, but that is another issue).
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Case Dismissed
Here are the orders:
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/florida/flmdce/8:2007cv01778/205669/6/
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Wow
1. The first amendment does cover florida. The fourteenth amendment mandates the applicability of the 1st on the states and all governments.
2. You have a right to annonymous speech and association. If the computer is used for such you have an access to such being a right.
3. The issue is not that the person has a right to a computer, the issue is that the bought won and provided it for use in an allegedly unconstitutional manner. You also don't have a right to mandate a library buy a fighing magazine, but if they do so they have to dole it out constitutionaly, and can't restrict it to black men, for example.
4. The child predator argument screams of the availability heuristic and moral panic.
5. The ID is unnecessary and arbitrary. Take a picture, write the person's name down, do anything- why mandate an ID? Dumb as policy.
6. This woman should have the right to the computer anonomously untill a problem arises. When such a problem arises there is a legitimate ground for restriction. Speculative shit about someone using the computer to do something illegal is just that. Until there is a problem allow people to use the computer anonomously.
7. The time issue is ridiculous so long as they aren't restricting her use unequally or vindictivly and aren't refusing to let her reregister arbitrarily.
That people on this site are arguing the first amendment doesn't apply to florida or that if we don't check for ID the library will be overrun with pedophiles (doing what exactly? Chatting to the kid at the next terminal which they couldn't do in the bookshelving area?) is ridiculous. Until there is a problem the government should stay out of burdensome rules that accomplish nothing.
The suit is stupid except for tha anonymity issue, and only then unless she can demonstrate a need for ID-less usage.
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I Agree!
Limiting computer use never made sense to me because the Library I used to attend has MORE THAN ENOUGH computers and not enough people frequent it daily to be without a computer.
This Library is virtually three-quarters empty on a daily basis. I know because I used to visit Monday-Sunday(Open Sundays May-September) and there was NEVER ANYONE waiting to use a computer.
I honestly think it's a way of discriminating against the homeless Patrons who frequent the Library so they won't hang around as long. I have no doubt this is the reason Public Libraries are not 24/7 operations as they should be.
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Ah, the homeless excuse. These douche bags that call themselves librarians have no clue how to manage patrons & their wants & needs. Most people attend libraries not for the books but for computer time. Most bring their own laptops & use Wi-Fi but for the rest they use what is available.
This library that I attend has the nerve to have a 15min Express terminal. It takes 15min just to load a page. U complain so many times but no actions result. Just boneheaded people.
30min Express should be the standard.
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