Who's The Evil Empire In The Battle Over Who Owns The Rights To Storm Trooper Costumes?
from the is-this-really-worth-a-legal-fight? dept
And the latest in a never-ending line of ridiculous intellectual property lawsuits, apparently George Lucas is engaged in a battle over who owns the rights to the costume used by storm troopers in the Star Wars movies. It turns out that a guy named Andrew Ainsworth created the original costumes for Star Wars and feels that he therefore has the right to make, market and sell the costumes (which people apparently are buying). Lucas, on the other hand, insists that it's a part of Star Wars and is his intellectual property. To make this more fun, Ainsworth turned around and countersued, claiming not only that he owns the rights to the storm trooper outfit, but that Lucas owes him money for all the merchandising done over the years that involved storm trooper costumes. Frankly, both sides are being a bit ridiculous here, but that's what you get in a world where everyone is convinced that you can "own" something such as a movie costume.
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Filed Under: george lucas, star wars, storm troopers
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I love you, you love me
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Now?
Call me cynical, but I have to guess it's something along the lines of "I've decided to retire and want to buy a large boat/mansion" or "I just realised I haven't done anything worthwhile since".
I'll admit I don't know what other work this guy's done, but I'll be shocked if one of the above answers doesn't fit the bill.
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Re: Now?
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Re: Re: Now? additional article info
This should be an interesting suit.
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Re: Re: Now?
OK, cynical comments retracted and actually reversed as this now reads like Lucas being overprotective of his brand. A shame as the designs in Star Wars were one of the things that set it apart from its predecessors and imitators.
Also interesting is that the case has ruled on in the US in favour of Lucas, this new case is just trying to get the UK courts to agree as Ainsworth is English. I'm now hoping Lucas loses, but we'll see.
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Re: Re: Now?
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Re: Now?
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Re: Now?
It seems like the music industry trying to strike out at other businesses who realized their business model is flawed so to fix their model they try to oust the competition.
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Re: Now?
It's a counter-suit to the suit filed against him by Lucas Arts. If Lucas Arts would have left him alone, there wouldn't be a counter-suit, and the guy would be content selling his Storm Trooper Armor for $3k a pop.
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Re: Now?
Are you talking about Lucas or Ainsworth? or both?
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Re: Now?
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Lucas is right
It's nothing more than George's corp lawyers doing their jobs and protecting the trademark.
no one cares but the parties involved
JP
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Re: Lucas is right
Per Lucas, there never was a written contract or even a verbal agreement really.
However, the guys counter suit is textbook laches and will probably get tossed out.
Lucas has a good chance of losing his current suit however.
FYI IANAL
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Re: Lucas is right
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#7
as a programmer, i don't get paid after i leave the company when my software is used again. heck, i don't get any "bonus" if the sw is used while i am still employed.
but the question is this the "standard model" i.e. unless otherwise specified, company owns IP produced during employment?
or is it vague? what about freelancers, do they sell the rights, or just a limited copy and/or rights while still retaining the "original"?
if there is statute that states company ownes, the artist is boned. if there isn't..it'll be fun.
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Re: #7
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He is right the costumes and designs in question are considered items produced in a a work for hire scenario. while i consider Lucas a bastard/business genius, here he is in the right. He hired this ungreatful assclown and made him a part of cinema history and instead of allowing this to credit his resume for other opportunities he is trying to win today's game on yesterday's score. It's because of stupid lawyers like this one filing the suit for him. It subjects the law to ad-hoc interpretation and perpetuates distrust and disrespect for the law. There is no more justice for the righteous in the justice system... there is just enough room for the greed that has come into the court room.
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Re: if you don't assert your right
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My Car
Likewise, after Lucas orders some costumes can he sue the manufacturer for making and selling more of them?
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Re: My Car
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Re: Re: My Car
That's interesting because I know a fellow in that situation. He pre-ordered a Limited Edition Camaro and his was the first one made in that particular color and equipped as he ordered it. General Motors later made and sold more of them. So you're saying he should sue GM, huh? That's quite a legal theory. I wonder how much he could get.
You're not a real lawyer, are you?
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1 Lucas writes Star Wars and hires Andrew Ainsworth to create the original costumes.
2. Lucas make Million/Billions with the franchise
3. 30 years pass and Andrew Ainsworth is creating the costumes off the original designs and selling as "STAR WARS" items, with out approval from Lucas Films
4. Lucas sues Andrew Ainsworth for IP violation
5. Andrew Ainsworth countersues.
Lucas 1 / Ainsworth 0
JP
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Re:
Where did you get that information? You're not making it up are you? I looked at his website and I didn't see him selling anything as "STAR WARS" items.
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My Suit
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nobody should own anything
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Please understand...
Whereas other companies sue you for just building a snowman that resembles their mascot (not really, but you know what I mean), Lucasfilm does not dump on their fans.
But to create a product based off of Lucas' universe, you need to go through the proper channels, just like Hasbro and Master Replicas do today... Just like Kenner did in the 80's....
Things are not any different now. An unlicensed product is still an unlicensed product.
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501st Get Ready to give up your suits
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The courts are strong with this one...
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Thats exactly what IP law has been modified to do.
Some "assclown" sat in his basement smoking weed with his buddies for a few months, back in the 80's and produced an album, a book or some really bad poetry and he's still getting paid for it. I was building houses back then, the houses are still there, Why don't I get royalties? People are still buying and selling the houses. This joker if he was any good at all on the cultures arbitrary scale never has to work again if he doesn't want to. Life of the creator plus 70 years... his great great grand kids will still be sucking off the tit of his "work" before it runs out.
if that isn't "win(ning) today's game on yesterday's score." I don't know what is.
On the other hand, most "Intellectual property" seems to be in the hands of large corporations anyway. It's creators having been paid once for their efforts are by and large happy to keep creating for another hand out.
These corporations deserve to have this endless payday much more than the creators do anyway... Right?
Wait... I got of track...
Hooray for Lucas! I hope he wins and keeps this assclown from making money on something they did together decades ago.
(eyeroll)
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Re:
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No basis for discussion
Ainsworth's statement, "As far as I am concerned, I am the original maker and I'm using the original moulds," simply isn't enough to assure him legal standing to produce copies.
Plenty of people who provide original work and content are doing so under the "work for hire" basis. Nevertheless that is an exception to the usual rule that someone who creates a work is the legal author of it. Unless someone can produce a copy of that agreement, we just don't know who is right. Nevertheless, a US court already found in Lucasfilm's favor, so presumably they were able to prove it was in fact their property, regardless of who possesses the molds.
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Re: No basis for discussion
Perhaps there was no agreement that covered future manufacturing rights. That seems plausible since no one is talking about one.
Unless someone can produce a copy of that agreement, we just don't know who is right.
Again, what makes you sure such a relevant agreement even exists? However, Ainsworth and not Lucas kept the original molds needed for future production. That might be construed as a tacit admission 30 years ago by Lucas of Ainsworth's right to engage in future production rather than Lucas.
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Lucas is right, but...
On the other hand, NO ONE has an official license to make Stormtrooper costumes, so Lucas' claim of lost revenue over bootleg costumes is a little baseless. It doesn't mean Ainsworth has any right to do it, but Lucas can't argue that his items have hurt the revenue of any official product.
THE BIG HIPOCRACY here is that for the Rosebowl parade Lucas "hired" worlwide memebers of the 501st legion to march as Stormtroopers. He didn't want to spend what would have been a fortune to hire and costume hundreds of people, so he employed the services of people he KNEW WERE WEARING BOOTLEG COSTUMES to serve his needs.
He needed Stormtroopers and was grateful those costumes existed, and now he wants to put the guy who made those costumes out of business.
This is a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I don't know if this gives Ainsworth any legal ammo, but it's still something to bring up in court.
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Re: Lucas is right, but...
Why's that? Just you saying so doesn't make it so and you haven't given anything to support your claim.
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It's just business
The bottom line here is that it is recognized IP and as such Andrew is required to license the rights to sell it. Chances are had he done the right thing and contacted Lucas' folks he could have gotten away with giving them a cut and selling his armor. Instead he just did it on the down low and Lucas found out about it and is protecting his interests.
It's just like the pirate factories in China where they build a copy of all the production tools for, say, a Ford Eclipse or whatever. The first factory makes Fords and the cars are legal, Ford gets a cut. The second factory make Frods and they are illegal and Ford doesn't get a cut. The second scenario is definitely a violation of IP and happens every day with products. If you don't hunt down and prosecute the pirates they will just undercut the business and cause problems with your service record & customer base.
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Re: It's just business
But whose IP? Andrew created it so why should he have to license it?
Chances are had he done the right thing and contacted Lucas' folks he could have gotten away with giving them a cut and selling his armor.
Whose to say what the right thing would have been? You?
Instead he just did it on the down low and Lucas found out about it and is protecting his interests.
You're the first one here to claim that Andrew did this surreptitiously. Do you have some inside information?
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Regardless of that, I hope Lucas looses anyhow.
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Without going into who I think is right or wrong, I doubt it would be as simple as just offering Lucas a cut of the profits.
More than likely, he would probably have had to pay a licensing fee that costs more than he's probably made in the decade. Then there would probably be all kinds of legal red tape, like being required to produce the costumes to Lucas's approval, getting them stamped as official Star Wars mechandise, etc. As for the cut, I'd be surprised if he got to keep even 50% of the profit for each costume. Which would mean he'd probably have to raise the price of the costues and sell less of them.
While I don't know the details, I'd be very surprised if one man could make afford to get a license to produce official Star Wars costumes and make any money at all at it.
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It depends...
1. What was the agreement?
Did Lucas and Ainsworth have an agreement before of after Ainsworth made the first Stormtrooper costume?
Did he say, "Space soldiers, huh? Well what do you think of this costume I have laying around?"
Ainsworth should win.
Did Lucas say, "Hey, Ainsworth, can you make me some cool plastic armor for space soldiers?" "Sure, George, I'll get right on it."
Lucas should win.
2. If you made a custom dress/car/etc. listed above and then the company sells it to others, the question is:
Did you get a trademark on it?
Lucas has a trademark on Stormtrooper costumes, presumably in the categories of visual arts, costumes, toys, etc. Ainsworth does not. He could challenge that Lucas' trademark is invalid because he sold Stormtrooper costumes prior to Star Wars coming out (highly unlikely, though). Otherwise, Lucas got the trademark on the item and nobody else can use it, regardless of whether they were first.
Taken together, we can compare it to the comic book industry, where the creators of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman BROUGHT their characters to DC while most of the others are work-for-hire. This is the reason why you see "Superman created by... Batman created by... Wonder Woman created by..." but not for any other characters, because the rest were done as work for hire.
What that tells us is despite DC's trademarks on the big three, the creators still had some rights because the characters were not work-for-hire. So they have to pay their estates and list the actual creators' names when they use them.
So, again, it should all comes down to whether Ainsworth can prove he had the costume prior to Lucas coming calling. But in today's world, we will probably see the California courts rule in favor of the famous Californian and the British courts rule in favor of the British guy.
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Re: It depends...
Hmm, so by that theory then the guy who bought the car and the suit above should also win because those items did exist before he came "calling". So far I haven't heard of any such suits though and I wonder why not if your legal theory is sound.
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Re: It depends...
This is an interesting dispute about how copyright and deisgn rights interface.
And in UK law there is a difference on ownership of copyright depending on wether it was through the course of employment or commissioned. When an item is commissioned the copyright is retained with the creator of the work, subject to any agreement to the contrary. From the information so far released it appears that there was no such agreement as otherwise the dispute would not have arisen.
Also you have to consider the fact that the Californian decision was a judgement in default, which means that the court took Lucasfilms' submissions as they were. They were not disputed hence they were not properly looked into. Now in High Court 52 there should be an interesting investigation into who actually owns the copyright to the costume and whether there are any design rights involved as well.
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Difficulty being sympathetic
Again I echo the people who say that the designer developed the costumes initially under contract, making the costume designs the property of LucasArts.
I hope this turns out with all said parties satisfied, but I cannot see Lucas losing this case.
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Re: Difficulty being sympathetic
There was a contract? That information wasn't in the linked article so where did you get it from?
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There's more to this than meets the eye.
30 years or so pass by and the guy is in the dumps so he SAYS he found a couple of the old helmet molds and he commences to make and sell new pulls. Thing is, there's a great deal of dispute over whether or not these are the real molds. Most agree that his helmet molds are modified versions of the originals, but they are definitely not exact replicas.
To make matters worse, AA hasn't got the armor molds, so what did he do? He bought a set of fan made armor and recast them to make his suits that he now sells for more than twice what the underground fans sell them for. This has been well documented in the fan community and most will have nothing to do with AA.
Like others have said, LFL has been very lenient in terms of copyright when the business stays underground, but if you pop your head out of the sand and beat your chest saying something belongs to you when it definitely does NOT...well, I say AA's getting what he deserves.
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Re: There's more to this than meets the eye.
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Star Wars merchandise has made billions over the years. With any new, well made, SW product, you're looking at potentially millions of sales. Licenses will be priced accordingly.
But wait you say, he's only one guy, there's no way he can produce millions of costumes, so surely they would charge him a realistic license fee based on what he can afford. Nope, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Why would Lucas give this guy a cheap license to make official costumes, when some other company might come along and offer the full fee so that they can mass-produce them?
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Lucas Trolls?
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Andrew Ainsworth
He was responsible for pulling the vacuum formed suits after they had been designed and sculpted by artists under contract for Lucasfilm.
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