Senator Lieberman Tries Hunting Down Terrorist Videos On YouTube
from the easier-than-finding-real-terrorists dept
Folks in Congress sure are scared of any kind of popular new internet application being used by terrorists -- quite often blaming the technology rather than looking for ways to use it to their advantage. They've targeted file sharing networks, Second Life and the whole internet as being terrorist havens. Now, Senator Joe Lieberman, who heads the Senate Committee on Homeland Security is upset with Google for letting terrorists post videos on YouTube. Last week he sent a note asking them to take all of the videos down. YouTube employees went through the videos and took down the ones that violated the site's terms of service, but left most of them up, as they neither showed violence nor promoted hate speech. Lieberman is not too happy about this and has sent a second letter, asking that the videos be taken down.This seems particularly silly for a variety of reasons. First off, it's most likely that these types of videos are preaching to the choir. It's hard to see too many folks watching some poorly produced al-Qaeda propaganda videos and suddenly deciding to join up. But, more importantly, by leaving these videos out in the open, it allows lots of folks to respond to them, criticize them and show them up for the awful propaganda they represent. In other words, why be scared of these videos when you can actually respond? Trying to force them offline suggests that we don't think we can win the argument (and even helps to legitimize those who put up the videos). If these videos are promoting ignorant propaganda, the best response is to rebut, refute or even ridicule them -- not bury them. Finally, leaving the videos up gives the government an excellent way to track what the groups are doing, rather than having their actions hidden away on other sites. If they got taken offline by Google/YouTube it would be a matter of minutes before they showed up on other sites where it might even be more difficult for US officials to track them and see what messages terrorists are spreading. Weren't we fighting against terrorists to stand up for principles like free speech and the belief that speech can be a weapon against propaganda?
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Filed Under: free speech, joe lieberman, terrorists, videos
Companies: google, youtube
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Re: Social Responsibility
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Re: Re: Social Responsibility
If these videos don't have anything violating the terms of service than they should never take them down. If we take down these propaganda films than we must take down all of the election videos since they are all propaganda as well.
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Re: BidMogul
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Uhh, Mike, when was the last time you read a YouTube comment?
Think I'd rather listen to Al Qaeda propaganda than read a YouTube comment thread.
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Re:
I have not seen any such thing, though I do admit that I don't spend any time watching Fox News whatsoever.
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Any such video should be taken down
On the contrary - these videos have a pretty good "recruitment" rate as far as these terrorist groups are concerned. Even if one person out of a 100 saw a video and decided to join, thats one more terrorist who is capable of killing soliders.
Why you would minimize this fact is bewildering and staggering.
The theme of such videos are clear and they serve only one purpose. Consequently, they should be removed and Google and other sites really need to pay more attention to these videos and/or modify their posting policies.
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Re: Any such video should be taken down
If you are really that concerned, come up with an equally valid and compelling response video. If someone is able to be "converted" and you have compelling reasons for them to not be converted, then post away!
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Re: Re: Any such video should be taken down
I feel you are missing the point - these videos do have influence over a certain number and type of person. The research is freely available on the internet. Search for it.
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Re: Re: Re: Any such video should be taken down
If defending freedom means slowly removing it at home, then we've already lost before we started fighting. So, no, leave the damn videos online. Let's practice what we preach, if we're going to violently take our preachings to other corners of the world.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Any such video should be taken down
Your comment accurately reflects the naivity of the U.S. and its citizens.
Obviously, you arent aware of all the troubles our armed forces have had in recruiting new soldiers. Its been pretty big news for a while now. If you were aware of this, then your comment is just plain idiotic and again reflects the naivity of many posters here.
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Re: Any such video should be taken down
It's so discouraging to see American citizens want to deny free expression to others.
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Terrorist videos
Putting additional restrictions on freedom of speech seems like a pretty severe step to take to keep a few terrorist-leaning individuals from seeing some potentially influential propaganda. I'd much rather have these videos out in the open so that we can as a society try to understand the reasoning of those with anti-American sentiments and try to address them. Sending them underground might make us all feel a little safer, but I suspect the marginal individuals who might be interested in this material are still going to hear it. The only difference is that all this will be going on in the shadows, where none of us will see what is going on or have a chance to provide an opposing viewpoint.
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Re: Terrorist videos
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yay!
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Re: yay!
If you are referring to the novel "Animal Farm", then the author was George Orwell.
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Re: yay!
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Re: yay!
Funny, the socialists in America (the Democratic Party) are the ones who WANT freedom of speech!
it's the republican party that doesn't!
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Re: Re: yay!
As long as what you say doesn't offend anyone.
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Essential Liberty vs. Temporary Safety
Benjamin Franklin
I don't understand what people think that this would accomplish. Terrorists have always been a part of society, taking down YouTube videos isn't going to stop them from doing what they are doing. If you take down the videos all you're doing is limiting free speech. Even terrorists deserve free speech until they've actually done something illegal. You only deserve to have your rights taken from you if you've committed a crime not before. There is no pre-cog method of stopping terrorists, all it does is allow the government to control information "for our safety". 85% of China's citizens believe the internet should be regulated to protect them, how many Americans would agree with this to stop terrorism? Food for thought.
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Lieberman should be registered as an agent of a foreign government. He is more interested in providing aid for isreal and isrealis, than he is in helping anyone in this country. I once swore an oath to protect this country from all enemies both foreign and domestic. He falls into both categories!
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Re: lieberman
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Orson Wells
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Although i was about to go support our troops and buy a ford truck before i saw one of the videos, now im shipping out to Iraq to fight the american pig dogs. if only i haddent seen that video i would be one less terrorist. oh well!
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Re:
These videos give us a window into the minds of those who want to hurt us. They are valuable in this way. And removing them is unlikely to reduce the threat against us. The people searching your "terroist videos" on YouTube are going to be searching for similar materials on the rest of the internet.
We aren't any safer by removing these videos - perhaps we are less safe because we can't respond or offer a new viewpoint to these impressionable individuals. This is a case where we are giving up freedoms for the illusion of security. It's a sucker deal.
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How did they magically get on the internet
Sure it was easy to get them there...but there was also, most likely, a trail. Said trail could turn searching for terrorists into "Shock and Awe".
Plenty has been said about restricting freedom of speech. No reason to limit anyone's. Say whatever you want...know that some words have consequences attached to saying them.
Such as a black eye for saying someone's wife is fat...
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Re: How did they magically get on the internet
And an assault charge for the guy who gave the black eye.
Just like the "fuck the troops" bumper sticker mentioned earlier, one cannot physically attack another because of what one says. If you punch out the bumper sticker guy or the guy who called your wife fat, who is going to jail?
We cannot and should not punish someone for what they say.
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Re: Re: How did they magically get on the internet
>And an assault charge for the guy who gave the black eye.
Yeah that is inviting the Streisand Effect. Are you dumb enough to press charges when you deserve the black eye? Some how I doubt a DA would even waste his time on it.
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Re: Re: Re: How did they magically get on the internet
But, seriously. If someone is dumb enough to have "fuck the troops" on his car, do you think he/she is smart enough to avoid fighting it? I know a few people who think that way and they will be the ones throwing punches if you just say their bumper sticker is wrong.
PS: I support our troops. I support them coming home.
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"Did you hear that America has been forcing Islamic prisoners to eat pork?"
"No! Where did you hear that!"
"On youtube."
"Hahaha. You tit."
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Lieberman...there goes another one!
It amazes me how our leaders are so willing to trash the right of free speech. It isn't there to protect speech you like, but speech you don't. Take the emotion out of it and be objective.
I'll bet that anyone that thinks YouTube should take the videos offline also believes that we should have a flag burning amendment - both emotional issues and the major steps to losing our rights of free speech.
Freedom
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Re: Lieberman...there goes another one!
He didn't stand up to his party, his party rejected him for a democrat. Why are we paying him to surf the internet?
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Lieberman
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Congress and You Tube
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Ignorance is NOT bliss
Our foreign policy is the issue. And it's not just about invasion and occupation of Muslim countries, but also about playing cop in the Muslim World as a whole. Couple that with support for their corrupt leaders, and a running (of what seems to be a limitless) tab for Israel and we will never cease to have hatred aimed at our way of life, our land, at our very existence.
Not many know that we give more to Israel than we do the rest of the World combined. We give them more than the per capita of Spain. And for what? In the decades that have passed, what has it gained us, the region over there and/or the whole notion of "peace" in the Middle East? NADA. ZELCH. NOTHING. We need to simply bud out.
I don't want to make this about Israel, it's not. It's about our support of what seems to be in constant opposite to all that is Muslims and Islam.
Unfortunately, it's all fueled by ignorance. Ignorance of a religion that is forced, I believe, to react in a manner against its very nature. Deep down, Islam is one of the Abrahamic religions. Muslims MUST believe in Jesus , Moses, Noah, Abraham, etc. Muslims MUST (as an article of faith) believe in the Bible, the Torah, and all the other "books" that have proceeded them. Muslims believe in the immaculate conception, the honor of Mary and her family, the split of the sea by Moses, amongst many other things.
I don't want to make this about Muslims either. It's about narrow minded politics-driven individuals with biases like Lieberman. I wonder what country he leans towards? Hmmmm!
What he's proposing, ultimately, is a violation to our civil rights. Rights we've already had violated with the Patriot Act.
It's simple. We have a deficit. We have needs within this country. Spend the money here. Fix my social security. Offer subsidized benefits. Take care of our growing baby boomers and elders. Invest in our education. I'm not saying don't protect our land & borders, but protection does not mean invasion, interference, etc.
We have people outside of our country dying with bullets that have our name on them! Let me kill your children, in front of you, with everything made in (let's say) Brazil and see how you feel about that country after time. It's only a matter of time, I bet, before you're acting in a worse manner than most would expect of you.
Stop and look at what Lieberman has supported in the past.
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And 8:38 Anonymous Coward, you can't even begin to speak of recruitment rates from videos, you know nothing of them and are trying to argue against something completely irrelevant to what others are.
YouTube should keep them up.
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Dont be so Naive Sean
If have any free time in your o'so busy life, try doing a little research review online - you may be surpised at what you find.
As for it being irrelevant - now you are just being dumb. It is completely relevant. Carefully re-read the original article and some of the underlying posts - it should make sense to any educated American that my earlier post is indeed relevant.
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0oooh just leave
sssh HE is hunting Tewwrroists.
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"Do The Research"
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"Do The Research"
"If have any free time in your o'so busy life, try doing a little research review online - you may be surprised at what you find."
I see this on boards occasionally, and it always galls me.
Telling others to "do a little research" leaves you with a totally vacuous argument. If you want to argue, then YOU do the research. Post a couple of links, cite a few stats, identify a couple of sources. If you are too lazy to do the research to support your point of view, then why the heck would anyone else?
Further, if 1,000 people are reading these comments, should we all "do the research" to figure out your argument, or would it be more efficient for you to post a link for us?
My request, which you will surely deny: Either make your point without needing research, or show the research.
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Re: "Do The Research"
But if you are too lazy to educate yourself on matters you do not understand, before making any posts, here's a little something that should quiet you down:
http://www.rand.org/pubs/reprints/2006/RAND_RP1214.pdf
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