Pro-Copyright Strawmen Won't Protect You From Real Economics
from the knock-'em-down dept
Over the last couple of months, I've discussed some unsubstantiated claims by Hank Williams, a writer for Silicon Alley Insider, that seemed dubious and uninformed, such as the idea that business models based on "free" were the fault of venture capitalist and made it impossible for small businesses to survive. Then, a couple weeks ago, there was his totally unsubstantiated attack on those who support weakening copyright protections. Williams has now responded, with a piece taking a few quotes from me out of context and insisting that I had no evidence to back up my claims. In reading through his claims, one thing becomes clear: Williams, like many others, likes to set up strawmen on what he wishes I said, and then to try to prove his point, puts artificial restrictions on what counts as proof. Let's take a look.Williams original statement: First, if music goes down, so will every other form of copyrighted material including ultimately books, movies, TV, etc.The strawman that Williams is using here is to mix and match what type of content he's talking about to suit his purpose. I thought he was talking about content as a whole, which is what he implied. But when I pointed out that there's more content being produced today than ever before (thank you internet) and the vast majority of it isn't being produced because of copyright, he changed his tune, to say he only meant professionally made content that was made using copyright. In other words, it's a tautological argument: the only content that counts is the content produced by this particular business model -- so if that business model goes away, there will be less content produced by that business model. Well, duh. But that doesn't mean less content will be produced, which is what his handwaving is meant to imply.
Masnick said: This assumes that without copyright, content creation goes down. There's no evidence to support this. In fact, we see more content creation today than ever before in history, and most of it is not because of copyright in the slightest.
Williams' Response: First of all, as far as I know, we still have copyright laws in this country. But Masnick says copyright isn't important to the creators of that content. How do we know this? Because Masnick says so. And I am sure most movie makers, book authors and publishers, and TV producers agree that they could continue to make their products without copyright. I am sure Jeff Zucker agrees. I am sure Bob Iger agrees. I am sure all those writers who get book advances agree. What about YouTube? What about the blogosphere? Well, the last time I looked Star Wars Kid had neither a TV nor movie deal for his famous clip.
And, of course, there's little evidence to suggest he's correct even there. The music industry, as has widely been demonstrated, has not been decimated by piracy at all. While the recording industry has had trouble adjusting, just look how many musicians have found a decent audience thanks to the internet. The combination of cheaper tools to make music, record music, distribute music and promote music means that more people can and are making music today than ever before in history. The same is true of other types of content as well. Of course, Williams has a neat trick in his bag to discount all of those, but we'll get to that next.
Williams said: There is no evidence at all that free music on the Internet is an effective (i.e. successful career building) marketing tool.And here's the neat little trick. The devil is in the details, but Williams has defined using free music to create a success so incredibly narrowly to make sure to limit the number of musicians who meet his qualifications. Let's go through the problems with his definition one-by-one.
Masnick said: That's simply untrue. Mr. Williams may not have found such evidence, but it's only because he didn't look very hard. The number of bands who exist solely because of their ability to build a following on the internet is rather large at this point, with plenty of bands crediting the internet's ability for easy distribution and marketing for their own ability to exist.
Williams' Comment: Again, Masnick's response appears to be: "You are wrong because I said so." But I'm trying to help: Via the Free Music Research Project I've started, I'm trying to see if I can find any artists that have effectively used the Internet promotion for anything other than to get noticed by a label. We are still in fairly early days, but so far no qualifying artists have been submitted. Kevin Kelley and Jaron Lanier have both also aggressively been looking for such artists, and they haven't found any either. I am not saying that there aren't any, but at this point any evidence is elusive. I suspect that there may be one somewhere. But probably not three.
First, he says it only applies to bands that are not on any label. Why? Who knows. I certainly have never claimed that bands need to remain off labels. In fact, I've pointed out exactly the opposite -- that even in the world of free music there's plenty of room for music labels who take a more holistic approach to helping a band create a full business model. So, suddenly, he cuts off any band that has ever signed with a label, even those that are embracing giving away their content to make money in other ways.
Second, he says it only applies to bands that make all their music downloadable as mp3s on MySpace. Why only on MySpace? Again, no idea. I'm not sure what MySpace has to do with any of this. Perhaps this isn't that much of a limitation, since most bands do seem to have a MySpace page -- but it still seems like an odd restriction.
Third, it only applies to musicians who are US based. He says this is to make it easier to research the details, but of course, that leaves out successful examples we've discussed in countries like Jamaica, China and Brazil. But that's okay, because none of those examples meet some of Williams' other pointless restrictions.
Fourth, it only applies to bands who have agreed to give away all of their music, rather than those who are just testing the waters. Why this limitation? Again, it's not at all clear. But just because a band is testing the waters and learning how "free" works, doesn't mean that they don't count as evidence.
As a subsidiary point (point 4a) it appears to also only apply to bands that don't also sell their music (Hank can hopefully correct me if I'm wrong here). I'm putting this as 4a, because it's not entirely clear if this really disqualifies a band -- though, Hank does say: "The idea is to find artists that, as a career choice, are not selling their music." Hank is pulling a sneaky strawman trick here: by saying that if a band is still making any money from the legacy system, then obviously that legacy system works great. This is similar to the problem with point 4 above. No one says to completely ignore the old way while you transition -- but for Hank, that's just not good enough.
Fifth, Hank insists that the bands can only make money from touring, and demands that they have a published schedule online. In fact, in the comments he dismisses Jane Siberry/Issa, who has built a career out of giving away her music because she doesn't happen to have a tour listed online. This is a common point of attack that people have made. But, it again is an artificial limitation. I have never suggested that bands should make their money touring, so I'm not sure why Williams thinks that's a reasonable limitation. I have simply said that they can sell scarce goods while giving away the infinite goods (the music). And, those scarce goods can include many things. Touring is certainly a big obvious one -- but hardly the only one -- as can be clearly seen by the successful experiments run by both Trent Reznor and Jill Sobule.
In both cases, Reznor and Sobule sold other scarce goods that had little to do with concerts (though, one of Sobule's "tiers" included concert tickets). Reznor ended up making well over $1.6 million. Sobule made $75k (her goal) in less than two months. But, to Williams, these don't count -- even though neither of them were business models predicated on copyright. And, so we have a strawman. Williams has decided that the business model we support has all of these limitations on it, even though it does not -- and he won't bother to accept any musician who has their feet in both pools.
I'm not sure what that proves, but it certainly doesn't prove that the model we're discussing doesn't work. We've already seen plenty of proof that it does.
Williams said: There have been no blockbuster successes that have come from, for example, Garageband availability. I don't think you could even count more than a handful -- if that -- internet-based artists making a living from music.We've already discussed the strawman of Williams' that somehow signing with a label disqualifies a band from gaining value from the internet or embracing free music. Instead, I'll focus on the fact that Williams conveniently snips out the success stories of Maria Schneider and Flo Rida. I'm sure he has reasons why they, too, don't qualify. However, when you spend so much time pointing out why every example "doesn't qualify" for some arbitrary set of rules, at some point you'll have to realize that all of those exceptions are the rule.
Masnick says: Of course, that depends on how you define "blockbuster" success. Williams seems to define it narrowly to suit his purposes, and that completely undermines his argument. Bands like the Arctic Monkeys created the following that turned them into a huge success via the internet.
Williams' Comment: The Arctic Monkeys do not fit the criteria, but not because they aren't big enough, but because they aren't an Internet band. I will happily concede that the Internet has been helpful to labels in discovering artists. In fact the the Internet is now a primary research tool for label A&R departments. And such is the case with The Arctic Monkeys. But all of The Arctic Monkeys' major success, like best selling records, and major radio play, came after they signed with a label in 2005.
And if they were so successful without a label, why sign with one? Why not just keep that big pile of Internet cash to yourself? Even if you discount that the Arctic Monkeys are a label band,, and just accept Masnick's contention that they are an Internet blockbuster, one single band does not make a movement. It doesn't even qualify as a "handful".
We never said that one business model (and certainly not the one Williams insists must be there) is the answer. We simply explained the basic economics and how to craft multiple business models that take advantage of those economics. You can build a strawman to argue against any single business model, but given that the overall economics are sound, and the increasing number of artists who are taking advantage of those economics (even if they don't fit Williams' narrow criteria) are doing a fine job of proving the point that Williams strawman won't support. So, go ahead and knock over that strawman, Hank. The rest of us are focusing on the business models that work.
Update: A friend just alerted me to the most ridiculous contradiction in Williams' post that was too good not to point out. As we noted above, in determining who "qualifies" as a success story with these non-copyright-focused business models, Williams' says you can't include anyone signed to a record label. Yet, in determining what qualifies as a "success" story with internet content, he mocks the Star Wars Kid: "Well, the last time I looked Star Wars Kid had neither a TV nor movie deal for his famous clip." So, apparently, to be a success as an amateur, you need to sign a pro deal, but once you sign a pro deal, you no longer qualify to be considered a success as an amateur. This is positively brilliant. Williams has created a scenario where it's simply impossible to qualify for his definition of success, because the second you qualify... you're disqualified.
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Filed Under: business models, copyright, economics, free, hank williams, strawmen
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Volunteerism makes zero sense to me. I'm already being ripped off by working. Hell if I gonna volunteer content. paymemthrfkr.
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Grammatically incorrect insults are my favorite. :)
why would someone use their time, resources, and money to provide free, uncopywrited content? Did you volunteeer this article or did you get paid for it? Exactly.
Did you miss the part where we explained that this is not about volunteerism, but about adopting a different, better business model that gets you paid more?
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Like, free and stuff.
So...I guess you just took time to point out that Mike gets money by giving away content for free. Which is, oddly enough, the antithesis to your point.
Kinda contradicting yourself there, buddy...
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For the record, everything douse have a price attached. This article for example has a price of however long it takes to read this article. The hopeful outcome would be that if you ever need an insight company for anything you will think of here first. That is how Mike and Tim and the others get payed.
The same can be said about broadcast TV and radio (I have no idea what happened to cable). They give away music and shows and in return they expect your time in the hopes that you will buy a product advertised on their station so that product manufacturer can continue to pay the station. This idea can be modified and tweaked to fit almost anything.
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Re: Re:
That is a cost of reading the article, not the price of obtaining it. A price is specifically something (usually money) given to the provider in exchange for a good or service. You didn't give Techdirt your time, you just spent it reading their article. That is, they didn't get to make use of your time, you did. You can tell that you didn't pay for the article with your time by the fact that you could have downloaded it and then not read it. Everything does have a price. In this case, zero. :-)
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Simple to build a fan base that will follow you and buy concert tickets DVDs Tshirts etc many artists do GPL music free copyable and many good bands. the same as for software never heard of Linux. so you are the idiot Mike has his facts right use your one brain cell and think.
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That's the strawman set up by Hank Williams and it's simply wrong.
Perhaps Hank wanted to restrict the criteria to the US because in Canada its done all the time and has led to bands breaking out, signing with non-Indy labels and doing very well, thank you. Say, Arcade Fire, Broken Social Scene or The New Pornographers.
None of whom release anything without a copyright attached.
ttfn
John
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He didn't imply it, he said it: "First, if music goes down, so will every other form of copyrighted material including ultimately books, movies, TV, etc."
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You never heard of broadcast television? In the US you can put up an antenna and watch copyrighted content on TV for free. Anytime. Nearly anywhere.
There's also this thing called radio. I'm shocked you never heard of it. Once again, with a radio you can listen to copyrighted content for free.
You may have heard about this thing called the internet. Numerous news sites, for example, put their copyrighted content online for free to the reader. (Heck, you're reading on right now.)
As to why someone would create content without copyright protection, it's something you would not understand. Some people like helping others without any payoff. E.g., helping a lady walk across the street.
Let me ask you this: Do you get paid for everything you do? Nope. But you still do those things anyway. And the reason you do those things is because you want to. That's no different from those giving away their content via music, videos, or working on open source software. People enjoy what they do more than they enjoy getting paid for doing it.
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myspace is included for the "magic bias"
You can only let people view it in a flash player, and the "download" icon conspicuously has never worked. Also myspace is turning into a facebook clone, and myspace is riddled with bot accounts.
Even with that said, I can name plenty of artists who make a living off promoting solely off myspace regardless that are indie.
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Re: myspace is included for the "magic bias"
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Re: Re: myspace is included for the "magic bias"
There are a lot of chicago artists who promote that way as well. There's this guy DA on the tracks (is I think the username) - its instrumental/rap combination.
I'll see what else I can remember and post back after work, honestly just ponder through the smaller bands on myspace and plenty pop up.
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Re: Re: myspace is included for the "magic bias"
In the left column you'll see the top 100 unsigned bands on myspace. I'd be willing to bet all of those make some money off their music. I'll bet their are far more than that on myspace making money, too...
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Re: Re: myspace is included for the "magic bias"
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Re: Re: Re: myspace is included for the "magic bias"
'Questionable Content' is a free web comic and the author's full time job.
'Perry Bible Fellowship' has all of their comics available for free - but still sell their book of (the same) comics.
I could go on and on with these... and if any of these content creators (not counting Jim Davis) had tried to use the standard model of 'everyone must pay' I wouldn't know who any of them are.
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Just to clarify
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Re: Just to clarify
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Re: Just to clarify
What are you talking about? No one is advocating a completely free business model. Even the Pirate Bay sells ads.
Basically, everyone pointed out you were wrong, so now you're changing what you meant.
You wrote, "why would someone use their time, resources, and money to provide free, uncopywrited content?" The answer to that is simple: You give away content to make money on advertising, or selling t-shirts, or selling concert tickets, etc. There have been business models based on free for centuries. In other words, your first statement is clearly erroneous.
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Re: 18
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Free is not opposite Copyrighted
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Examples of thriving free music?
Thanks!
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Re: Examples of thriving free music?
BAM!
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Re: Examples of thriving free music?
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You missed the point of Reznor...
I can't comment on Sobule, because I don't know enough about that situation. However, Reznor's success was absolutely predicated on copyright. The reason there were only 2,500 "Ultra-Deluxe Limited Edition Packages" (i.e., why the scarce goods were scarce) is precisely because of copyright protection.
This isn't to say that you can't build a successful business model out of giving music away for free. It's an old marketing technique called a loss leader. But for the upsell to work, copyright and other IP protection is required.
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Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
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Re: Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
The other items in the edition, including all the high quality downloads, two CDs, a data DVD, a Blu-ray high def DVD and assorted extras, were the rest of the value and made up the entirety of the price. (for the record this was Ghost not The Slip.)
It is impossible to identically copy the physical goods so copyright doesn't even come into play. Technically he didn't have any on the "Ultra-Deluxe Limited Edition Packages" only the music.
You can still download the music (hell, you can get it off of Pirate Bay) and you can still purchase the CDs. Why is he ripping off his fans?
@nasch
You missed my point. I am spending my time reading the article. That is time I will never get back (hence a finite thing). They are benefiting from my time by having ads on the page. Not only the Google ad at the bottom of my page but the simple fact that it is Techdirt and the main service is the Insight Community.
There is no such thing as a free lunch (as has been pointed out), but the price is not always money. More often than not, it's time.
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Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
I can't comment on Sobule, because I don't know enough about that situation. However, Reznor's success was absolutely predicated on copyright. The reason there were only 2,500 "Ultra-Deluxe Limited Edition Packages" (i.e., why the scarce goods were scarce) is precisely because of copyright protection.
Not at all. The content on the set, the music (the infinite good) was freely available under a CC license.
The scarcity was in the specific boxset, which had nothing to do with copyright. And, even better, the real scarcity of the ultra-deluxe limited edition package -- was Reznor's signature, which, again, has nothing to do with copyright.
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Re: Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
The value of this product is in the scarcity. I want to pay $300 for one, because I want to be one of the 2,500 people on Earth to have one. This is predicated on the idea that Reznor can reasonably assure that there will only be 2,500 copies made. The legal mechanism that dissuades other people from making and selling this product themselves (and I have to chuckle at Chronno S. Trigger's notion that you can't duplicate a physical product) is copyright.
If anyone can produce, sell and distribute any creative work, the work becomes a commodity. Copyright allows the control to remain with Reznor, and thus keep the value intact.
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Re: Re: Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
What you seem to be saying is you can take a picture of the cover art or signature, you can rip the videos and music. What you don't understand is that isn't where the value is. If Trent put digital copies of everything in that set online, people would have still payed $300 per just to actually own it. That edition is going for $380 on eBay right now and it's got 5 days left.
Note: when I said duplicate the limited edition what I meant was make an identical physical copy. That is not as easy as copying digital music and it would probably cost more than the set went for initially and it still would have less value because it's a fake.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
The words you are using, to me, speak to all of the benefits of copyright. In your mind, there is something legitimate about the product Reznor sells, and something fake about a copy that someone else sells. Trent's product is the real thing -- and that's where the value lie. I believe this to be true also. It's not necessary all about just "the content" (and I hate that term - because it drains everything wonderful out of fruits of creativity).
The legal mechanism that legitimizes the labor of the creator -- that calls, in a real sense, Reznor's product real and the imitator's fake is copyright.
I really like reading Mike's point of view on this. I find his opinions to be well thought out, and based on a reasonable assessment of the world from his point of view. I disagree with him strongly, but it's always good to see the other side of an issue.
I do agree with Mike that the benefits to making music available online for free, in many repects, far outstrip the benefits of the old record label models. New business models are feasible. That is something very different than saying new business models are necessary, because if copyright holders don't make all music available for free online, people will take it upon themselves to distribute it for free.
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Re: Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
CC is predicated on copyright law. To claim otherwise is a blatant misunderstanding. Copyright leaves licensing control in the hands of the creator. CC provides a variety of set licensing "packages." Licensing something under CC means choosing to allow others to do this or that, but the idea that you have a choice to allow those things is all based on copyright law.
Don't confuse or misunderstand the issues.
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@23 Re: You missed the point of Reznor...
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Here is a band
"The million-dollar prize is being offered directly from the band. Neither sponsors nor record company funds are being used. The band's singer Dexter Holland asserts, "This money came directly to us from our fans. We feel it would be cool to redirect it back to them. We are trying to launch our album with promotions that are fan supportive rather than fan exploitative. We feel that giving them our music and letting them have back some of their money is a great way to show how much they mean to us.""
http://www.nyrock.com/worldbeat/09_2000/091500a.asp
(If I recall correctly this was one million cash after taxes) Read above link for other things they did to thank the fans.
In September 2007, The Offspring posted a studio cam on their fan board.[27] It shows the mixing and recording rooms, occasionally with the band members and producers/mixers. The cam updates every 30 seconds. In November 2007, the Offspring began posting short 'in the studio' videos on YouTube. The videos featured short segments of the band recording new material for the upcoming album.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Offspring
I know I will actually go out and buy the new album on the day of release June 17 2008 from a locally owned record store
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You really missed the point of Reznor
If music was all you were hungry for, that was, in fact, a free lunch.
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To add to Chronno
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A success because of the internet...
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A success because of the internet...
This Was a Triumph. . .
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Re: A success because of the internet...
Coulton rocks.
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Re: A success because of the internet...
OK i'll stop. But yes, Dave, he is wonderful. I don't know why he didn't make the list, or why no one else mentioned him first.
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Re: Re: A success because of the internet...
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Another missed point
But okay, Hank's really talking about people that, on purpose, put up content on YouTube or wherever. Most of these people aren't really trying to make money either. A few have actually gotten benefits however. Tay Zonday (sp?) has been in a Dr. Pepper commercial. Many of the people that are more famous from YouTube were recently in a Weezer video, which if they didn't make money, was at least kind of cool, and probably fun.
So these are people that were just trying to release something they thought was interesting, not worrying about copyright, and they got a benefit out of it, without even meaning to.
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It is fruitless to argue with people like this because they are convinced they are right, and each and every refutation is met with changing criteria.
It's like Clinton asking what "is" means.
It's unfortunate that Williams has been given a soapbox upon which he can rant as he does. But that's the price we pay for having the open society we have. In the long run it is better to simply not respond. Fires go out when they run out of oxygen. And Williams will stop proseltyzing when we stop responding to him.
Woadan
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Re: Woadan
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And the hits just keep on coming...
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@46: I think you are missing my point
Even if an artist puts a song out on the internet for free under CC, they still retain full copyright. CC is just the license under which the music is distributed and can be consumed. People are still prohibited from selling that song to anyone, or from rerecording it and selling that, or from including it on the soundtrack of a movie, or whatever. CC music as a loss leader can't work as a business model without copyright protection.
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Re: @46: I think you are missing my point
Even if they did, people wouldn't be as interested in them compared to the "authentic" ones. Especially the limited edition that involves a signature -- which can't be copied.
Authenticity is a benefit people will pay for.
Even if an artist puts a song out on the internet for free under CC, they still retain full copyright. CC is just the license under which the music is distributed and can be consumed. People are still prohibited from selling that song to anyone, or from rerecording it and selling that, or from including it on the soundtrack of a movie, or whatever.
That depends on the CC license chosen. Some of them absolutely do allow commercial use.
CC music as a loss leader can't work as a business model without copyright protection.
That's simply incorrect. Look at the success folks like Cory Doctorow have had with a full cc license that allowed all uses -- including commercial. But people still bought his book. And he ended up getting speaking gigs, a teaching job and other work thanks to it.
So, yes, it can work as a business model without copyright protection.
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this article
a band tours, they receive 'fanship', these people follow the artist's work.
if you no longer have a contract and can continue to get people to give you money for your art--you have succeeded.
often, critics of artist are failed artist themselves.
that's why man made academia....good for you!!
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Kimbo Slice
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"Well, the last time I looked Star Wars Kid had neither a TV nor movie deal for his famous clip."
Star Wars kid was not looking to make money. He did not release the video, and was actually mortified when it was. He was the butt of the biggest joke on the Internet for months, and couldn't wait for it to go away. So, he hasn't signed a deal because he never wanted to be known in the first place!
The fact that this fool would even try to compare the antics of a kid with a camcorder to professional TV and movie makers is also pretty stupid. "movie deal for his famous clip"? I think that movie was called Star Wars. Even with the scarcity of new ideas in Hollywood, I think a movie or TV series based on a kid jumping around for a minute pretending to be Luke Skywalker would be a hard sell. Also:
"What about YouTube? What about the blogosphere?"
What about them? Most people who create content for those platforms do it for free and without any expectation of financial reward.
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reznor and marketing
My real point here is that marketing is supposed to be more than just "market share" and your slice of pie. Marketing is supposed to be about finding and exploiting niches and new models. I like to say, "it is more important to make the pie bigger so everyone gets a larger slice". This is what the current pinhead marketers seem to miss. They fight over a piece of pie like wild dogs (CD sales), instead of looking for a larger animal to share (CD boxed sets, downloads, etc). There is room for all of these different models in the business world.
Give me a taste, I will try more if I like it.... just like a drug addict.
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