CDs Have Another Thing To Fear: Vinyl?

from the life-is-analog dept

Wed, Jun 11th 2008 7:37am — Dennis Yang

There has been no doubt that CD sales have been declining due to the growth of digital music. Well, CDs are now being flanked by an old format: vinyl. Although vinyl LPs have always enjoyed a niche popularity with dance djs and indie rock fanatics, large mass-market retailers like Fred Meyer are starting to stock vinyl versions of albums in response to broad increasing consumer demand for the "obsolete" format. Though vinyl enthusiasts claim that the analog sound from records is of higher quality than that of their digital counterparts, audiophiles are not necessarily the ones leading this resurgence in vinyl demand. Consumers like the larger format's liner notes and the nostalgic experience of owning and playing a vinyl LP -- both things that cannot be replicated with the digital version of a song. Unlike the declining sales of CDs, Vinyl LP sales are expected to grow 60% this year over last year. However, the actual volume of vinyl sold (1 million albums sold versus 450 million for CDs) is very low, so clearly the resurgence is not an indication of a shift in consumer's primary demand. That said, as more consumers are exposed to the music, the market for related non-digital goods will grow, and the increasing demand for vinyl albums is yet another indication of this trend.

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Filed Under: music, vinyl

48 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 8:12am

New "Old" Stuff
Does this also mean I should not get rid of my 8-track?
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Gunnar, 11 Jun 2008 @ 8:28am

Plus, LPs are big enough to be hung on the wall like a piece of art.

And this is something that should be much more common: a lot of Indie labels sell vinyl along with a burned cd of mp3s for easy placement on an mp3 player.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 8:53am

Re:
how do i rip vinyl to flac? i hope they give me a burnt cd with flacs on it also.
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ehrichweiss, 11 Jun 2008 @ 8:55am

Re: New "Old" Stuff
I dunno if you know this but the 8-track has significantly better audio than your standard cassette tape and its only real problems were that recording wasn't easy and it had no rewind mechanism. It was kinda the Betamax of the audio world.
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Vincent Clement, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:03am

Re: Re:
With a USB turntable, silly.
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ehrichweiss, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:05am

and vinyl is worth the price...
Dunno how many know this but vinyl is actually WORTH the $15(or whatever) that you pay because it can't be pressed nearly as easily and cheaply as CD's can. For one, if they really, really wanted to they could press a single CD in a session but vinyl requires that they use enough "wax" for 100-1000 records to get the mechanism working correctly so you usually press whatever you setup with. There ARE services where they will "cut" a single record for you but those are incredibly expensive($25-100 per copy) and don't last as long as pressed vinyl.
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ehrichweiss, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:06am

Re: Re: Re:
OR one of those super killer firewire turntables by M-Audio.
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B, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:18am

Re: Re: Re:
It's actually not necessary to get a USB turntable or adapter a lot of the time (as much as I love buying random ThinkGeek stuff).

Some bands are recognizing that the collector sorts of their merchandise really like Vinyl, so what they'll do is sell the vinyl and give you a download card as part of the package so you can download high quality MP3s. A small band I'm a fan of distributed their last EP exactly that way. You could buy the download card by itself on the cheap ($5 I think), or you got it for "free" if you bought the vinyl.

Great idea, in my opinion.
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Crowded, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:19am

Go Clear
Yeah, that's all good until 20 years later there are 3 crates full of vinyl in your bedroom that are too heavy to move anywhere and your boyfriend won't let you throw them away.
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mac, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:33am

4 track...
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well don't leave us hanging: who's the small band you like? The idea is to spread the word, isn't it?
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:35am

Re:
Plus, LPs are big enough to be hung on the wall like a piece of art.

This really should be a huge selling point. You can't really replicate that any other way: CDs are really too small, and I still haven't figured out how to hang an mp3 on my wall...
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Sarah, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:54am

Really appreciating vinyl
My husband and I have learned that it's cheaper to buy vinyl from thrift stores and yard sales, especially if you're into the music from the 70s/80s. So instead of buying 1 song at a time for 99 cents each from iTunes I get a whole Rolling Stones album for 80 cents.
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Old Guy, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:56am

Re: Re:
Nail Gun. Drive the nail right thru the IPod
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Haywood, 11 Jun 2008 @ 9:59am

Re: Re: New "Old" Stuff
8 tracks had more problems than no rewind. The biggest of these the fact that the tape wore itself out by sliding off the end of the roll to be fed to the center. before long the lubricants were gone and they would drag & even break. Other than size though they were nice as you could search them easily. A dozen in a car was like carry on luggage. The short life span meant; if you really liked it, you would buy more than 1. I had several player/recorders so recording wasn't a problem.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 10:07am

Now THAT's art!
That is so wonderfully tempting...
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PaulT (profile), 11 Jun 2008 @ 10:24am

When I DJ, I prefer to use vinyl for the most part. I'm often torn between the convenience of MP3 (compared to the sheer weight of vinyl), but I prefer the feel of vinyl while I play out.

Overall, this isn't really surprising. Vinyl retains a niche market, and as the CD market rapidly decreases the proportion of that niche market within physical sales will increase. If people are buying simply for the comfort of a physical format, vinyl is more intimate so its sales will grow.
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CVPunk, 11 Jun 2008 @ 10:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'm not sure what band B is talking about but, I bought The Gaslight Anthem double 7" EP and it came with a card with a code you enter online to download all the songs in MP3 format for free. So for the double 7" EP and the MP3's I paid a grand total of about $7. Found the EP at Hot Topic. Store sucks but once in a while they have a couple decent vinyl LP's.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:00am

Wow, Mike, nice way to scoop the late 90's for this story.
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Sanchez, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:04am

Groovy CD's
I blogged about the evolution from LP to CD to hybrid a few months ago. It can be found here: http://theroaringlyon.blogspot.com/2007/11/groovy-cds.html
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snowburn14, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:05am

Re: and vinyl is worth the price...
I don't generally find something to be worth more just because it cost them more to make it. If I have a choice between an 80 gig and a 40 gig hard drive (not even remotely supposed to be analogous in terms of vinyl vs cd capacity, so please don't bring that up), and the 40 gig cost the company more to assemble for whatever reason, I really don't see that as being worth more than the 80 gig... Now, if you find the audio quality to be better on vinyl than CD, then you've got an argument for it being WORTH more, same way the 40 gig could be worth more if it had a faster data transfer rate or something. But the cost of producing something has no bearing on what it's worth, at least not to me.
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CVPunk, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:07am

punks love vinyl
Vinyl has always been pretty big in the punk community.
A few labels are starting to offer all three formats on their sites also. (vinyl, cd, and mp3) I think the most I have paid for a LP is probably about $18 (not including shipping) for a limited color pressing.
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CVPunk, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:11am

Re: and vinyl is worth the price...
I don't usually pay more than $10-$12 depending on where I am getting it from. Amoeba Records in Berkley and SF have pretty decent prices and most of the labels I order from usually only charge $10 for a full LP with the exception of imports.
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Woadan, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:21am

Opening an album was an experience in itself. Removing the plastic from the album, sliding the wax out of the cover...

I can smell the industrial solvents now!
;)

Woadan
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B, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No way! If I tell you they'll become mainstream and I'll lose my Indy cred!!

(just kidding... the band is called Tumbledown)
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b, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:28am

vinyl rules
i stopped buying CD's a decade ago but i never stopped buying vinyl. lately in the last year or two, every record i buy comes with a cd inside or a link to download the album. genius if you ask me. i get the songs for the ipod and the vinyl for my collection. for everyday use i listen to the digital version, special occasions the records come out. it leads to less wear and tear on the vinyl and the needle as well.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:29am

Re:
> Wow, Mike, nice way to scoop the late 90's for this story.

So many things wrong in one little sentence. First, the post wasn't written by Mike (who needs facts?). Second, as the post makes clear (if you actually read it), this goes beyond the typical hipster return to vinyl in the 90s, but it's now taking place in mainstream retail outlets.

It's fun to insult people when you don't read, huh?
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Mojo, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:48am

But I want the MP3s FROM vinyl!
The idea of getting free MP3s with the album is great, but the source of the files are most likely digital.

One of the great things about vinyl is if you burn it to CD or MP3, you still retain that vinyl "sound" people like so much. If I like the sound of records enough to buy them, I certainly don't want MP3s made from the CD!
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JS Beckerist, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:52am

Re: New "Old" Stuff
I still haven't gotten rid of my Beta-Max...
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CVPunk, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:53am

Re: But I want the MP3s FROM vinyl!
the ION player connects direct to you pc and is only like $100 at Best Buy... you can also get the more pricey DJ turntables that have usb hooks ups. Stanton and others make them.
I record my vinyl to my Yamaha home cd burner and then rip that to mp3. Gives me a copy for my old stock cd player in my car and mp3 version for my Sansa mp3 player. Can still hear the "white noise" since they are recorded analog. :)
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Rick, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:54am

Vinyl has the neato retro feeling for sure. My problem is I never want to listen to a single album beginning to end. It is simple to make a mix CD or switch to the next random mp3. It's a little more tedious to change records. Are there vinyl 'burners' available for consumers yet? It could be the wave of the future.
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Rick, 11 Jun 2008 @ 11:56am

Re:
When DJ's only use mp3's I feel a little cheated.
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leah, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:00pm

Re: But I want the MP3s FROM vinyl!
if there is one thing i miss about LPs is that "scratchy" sound when you get to the end of the record before the needle is picked up. i do love that sound.
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CVPunk, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:00pm

Re:
see post #30
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Teh Tardinator, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: [wall hangings]
Perhaps not quite CDs for wall hanging... Laserdisc. o_O
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DJ Pulse, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:37pm

Not just for the DJs
In my 10 year run as a DJ, I've seen PLENTY of other people (ie. groups, bands, musicians) release their music on vinyl. The sound is so much better. Most won't tell you that because they don't have a good enough setup to hear the difference. Good sounding music going to $10 speakers isn't going to sound all that great. Audiophiles like me buy records just to hear how it's SUPPOSED to sound.

And call me old school, but I can't STAND to use cd players or MP3s when I'm DJing. It's like cheating to me. Prove your worth by using your hands to control the vinyl. Not by pushing a button. :)
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Lickity Split, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:43pm

Re: Groovy CD's
I blogged about posting what I blogged about on other blogs, check it out at http://www.imatool.com/douch
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Groovy CD's
blogspot.LOL.OMFG.ROFFLECOPTER
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freakengine, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:34pm

The 5000 albums I once had...
required their own custom-made cabinet, boxes that I kept under the bed for every move, and lots of muscle and sweat to move them around this earth with me. I eventually gave up and moved on. Now I see stories like this one and smile. While LPs are the current comfort food of the music biz, they certainly aren't practical and they represent a big step backwards technologically. Why not simply work toward making digital files sound better?

Oh, and despite gooft opinions to the contrary, when you use a USB hookup from a turntable, you might as well listen to the digital files to begin with.
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Gunnar, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:46pm

"Audiophiles like me buy records just to hear how it's SUPPOSED to sound."

That's not really true. A lot of bands record in full digital and master albums for how they'll sound coming off of a cd (and increasingly, how they'll sound when compressed to an mp3). Yes, an album will sound different on vinyl, but that doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to sound.
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zcat, 11 Jun 2008 @ 2:09pm

Re: But I want the MP3s FROM vinyl!
If you like the 'sound' of vinyl, there are filters that can recreate that sound from digital files pretty accurately (well enough that the 'golden ears' brigade consistently fail to tell the difference in double-blind tests)

Personally, I love vinyl just because it's vinyl. Unfortunately I don't have a turntable at the moment and this place is too small so my record collection (only a few dozen albums) is stowed away in the garage. :(
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CVPunk, 11 Jun 2008 @ 3:46pm

Re: The 5000 albums I once had...
Practicality and technology are not usually the basis for having and keeping a record collection... I would rather have a 12" LP with a gatefold cover and lyrics sheet than a tiny cd reprint or the complete absence of with a digital file.
The whole "sounds better" is really subjective, as I know plenty of people who hate the sound of LP's and vice versa.

Also, with regards to the USB hookup from a turntable... that is more about having a convenient way to back up your catalog and maybe have some music you can throw on an mp3 player.. that doesn't mean people would "prefer" the digital track over the LP.
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Drew, 11 Jun 2008 @ 4:08pm

CD sales have definitely been dropping due to the increase in MP3 sales/downloading over the internet. But I think that it would be going too far to say they are in danger on another front due to increases in vinyl sales. Vinyls are on the rise, thats a fact. But I think that rather than being a practical movement, vinyls are a nostalgic or "retro" movement, just like clothing or anything else would be.
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mike allen, 12 Jun 2008 @ 12:23am

another demention
most audiophiles i know also use vacume tube amps not chips or transistor amps
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2008 @ 7:11am

Re: Re:
Sorry about getting the writer wrong, but usually Mike is the one who thinks old ideas are brilliant. But seriously, back in the late 90's you could walk into many "mainstream" and buy vinyl. This is nothing new. It disappeared when mp3's became popular, but if you were older than 13 you would know that.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2008 @ 9:17am

There is nothing quite so endearing as lowering the turntable arm onto a record and then watching as the diamond tip skips and cuts a deep scratch across the record. Makes a nice metronome next time you play the record and brings back memories of Edison's wax cylinders.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2008 @ 9:53am

One reason i stopped buying CDs is they don't sound as good as they used to. Turns out that is by design of the industry. They try to make them 'loud' versus giving them the proper dynamic range. This is much harder to do with Vinyl and a good reason to go in that direction.

Read more at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2008 @ 11:44am

@Re: New "Old" Stuff
"I dunno if you know this but the 8-track has significantly better audio than your standard cassette tape and its only real problems were that recording wasn't easy and it had no rewind mechanism. It was kinda the Betamax of the audio world."

No. The only reason 8-track's audio was superior to cassette was because it ran at twice the speed (3 3/4 IPS instead of 1 7/8). The mechanism was a real kludge: the endless loop (as somebody else pointed out) had tape sliding against tape the entire time it was playing, so needed extra lubrication. This tended to get onto the capstan pinch roller and make it less effective, and the tape wore out quickly. The tape was held against the capstan and the heads with a spring mechanism that needed to be able to release when pulled on. It was a tricky balance; my experience was that an 8-track player only lasted 6 months to a year before you started having real problems. You can't rewind, yeah, well, you can fast-forward but not like a cassette -- it was still driven by the capstan and you didn't want to push that endless loop tape too quickly. Cassettes can FF/RW much more quickly because only the tape and the spindles are involved. The heads tended to go out of alignment easily. There were more tracks to switch between, yes (so faster track selection than cassette), but they tended to be half as long; a lot of commercial tapes would fade a song between tracks, which personally I found damned annoying. They were also physically much larger than cassettes.

Other than that, yeah, 8-tracks were better than cassettes.

Betamax? If you want to compare to a superior quality format, why not point out that reel-to-reel had none of the disadvantages of 8-track, all the advantages of cassette except cost and convenience, and your typical consumer deck would run at 7 1/2 IPS if not 15. (And you could choose to run at anything from 1 7/8 to 15 in steps of 2x, meaning you could choose between long recordings and quality.) It had wider tracks, too, so inherently had a higher S/N ratio than either of the other formats.

You know the real reason cassettes took over as the preferred format for decades? Because they were convenient and recordable and relatively reliable. Well, and cheap. For your average consumer the quality was Good Enough, and the convenience of being able to carry them around and use them in portable players trumped almost everything else. 8-tracks contained the seeds of their own destruction. R-R was too bulky and inconvenient. DAT was expensive and slow to load and, aside from quality, had no advantage over cassettes, and as I said earlier, the quality of cassettes was Good Enough for the masses. (And DAT was a late-comer in an entrenched market, too.)

And in the meantime, an awful lot of R&D was put into cassettes to the point where the quality actually exceeded the old reel-to-reel decks. Some audiophiles were actually starting to take them seriously, when suddenly CDs came out and basically blew them out of the water.

... And you can still get them, though they're harder to find. I've still got a cassette deck in my car (mostly because I can't afford a new player right now :). I can check out books on cassette at the local library (and video on VHS), I actually bought one recently (Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett). I still have a bunch of old music on cassette and I can record more -- my home stereo tape deck still works, and I have blanks.

No, I'm not living in the past. I have a DVD recorder on top of my VHS deck, and CD and DVD burners, and I can rip and duplicate and convert with the best of them. I even have an MP3 player (which I can plug into my car stereo, which has an AUX input :). But this stuff still works, so I see no reason to throw it away.

Got rid of my last 8-track more than a decade ago. It was El Dorado by ELO. It was just hanging around in storage, taking up space.

Betamax was actually a superior format that lost due to marketing. Please don't compare it to 8-track, which died because it was junk.
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