How Cuomo's Anti-Child Porn Efforts Will Make The Child Porn Problem Worse

from the driving-it-underground dept

Wed, Jun 11th 2008 11:50am — Mike Masnick

In discussing NY Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's success in getting ISPs to block a list of child porn sites and newsgroups, we noted that it wouldn't do a damn thing to stop child porn. The reality is that it may actually make the problem worse. It turns out that these efforts to make it harder to access child porn have serious unintended consequences: basically, those involved with child porn still have plenty of ways to access it, but it's much more underground than before. It makes it that much harder for law enforcement officials to track down those actually responsible and to stop child porn at its source. Again, it's a noble goal to try to stop child porn, but making ISPs block access to sites isn't the answer. And, the fact that those ISPs are admitting that they're blocking more than just the list makes those unintended consequences even worse. What Cuomo has done is make it harder to stop child pornography while also opening the door to others censoring the internet.

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Filed Under: andrew cuomo, isp blocking, porn

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Dean, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:48pm

Rediculous
This has nothing to do with actually stopping child pornography. Big telcos like Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, Time Warner, etc. have all been pushing for more power to act as internet Gatekeepers and internet traffic cops for a long time. All legislation and company policies that would normally be extremely controversial and unconstitutional suddenly become palatable in the name of "protecting the children". This will not stop with just child pornography. Telcos are already trying to apply this logic to sites that host some pirated music and videos. What happens when your site gets linked to by another site that has been banned and unbeknownst to you Comcast's filtering algorithms, or some other agency black-lists you as well because that link to your site is deemed as an association to banned material? This has the potential to allow the big Telcos to ban whatever site they want just by tweaking their filtering algorithms. Come on, this is not a good thing and has nothing to do with actually protecting children. Besides, once they shut the usenets down and other known sites, the peddlers of this kind of material will create other sites. Go after the people breaking laws instead of passing phony legislation to "protect the children" that only steals rights away from everyone. Arrest the pervaders of this material and amazingly we all get to keep our internet freedoms and the problem takes care of itself. It's funny how common sense and legislation don't seem to coincide with each other. If eliminating child pornography was the real reason for this sudden interest in news groups and other sites, they WOULD suggest going after the perpetrators. Instead, we get shady deals between government and big corporations once again that eventually affect everyone in a negative way and only benefit the people involved in making the deals.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 12:58pm

all in the name of police state
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:01pm

Why bother? Crime will happen. We should just let it be.
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- Finnbjorn, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:14pm
  
  Re:
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- Finnbjorn, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:18pm
  
  Re: Why bother? Crime will happen.
  If you really feel that way, Anonymous Coward, then can I have your home address? I could use some extra cash, see; and, if your so cavalier about victimization, then surely you won't mind if I relieve you of a few of your luxury items . . .
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  - Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:37pm
    
    Re: Re: Why bother? Crime will happen.
    Laws that stop something that is going to happen anyways are so pointless. It is a good argument. Run with it.
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    - Finnbjorn, 12 Jun 2008 @ 7:43pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Why bother? Crime will happen.
      The way I see it, our law code currently contains three types of criminal activity: victimless crimes, crimes commited due to social disease and crimes commited due to mental disease. Laws against expression, such as(, as much as I hate to say this) the exhibition of child pornography, or Laws of Prohibition are of the first kind: no one made you look at the gallery, no one made you smoke that dope, there is no victim; and, as far as I'm concerned, laws of this nature are a hinderance to industry and a waste of government resources. Now, making child pornography, at least insofar as it require(s/ed) using live children (or dead children for that matter) is an example of the third sort of crime: a serious offense commited out of mental disease. The monsters who commit these offenses should be tracked, captured and enslaved inorder to pay for their psycological treatment, with release from bondage contingent on healing. Now, there is no known cure for pedophelia or anti-social disorder or the many other severe diseases that lead to serious crime; so, these creatures would be in bondage into perpetuity. The burglary I requested premission for earlier is of the second order: a crime born of social disease: in this case a powder-cag of my poverty and your ignorance. The remedy is to enslave us both inorder to pay for the education that we will receive until such time as you are no longer so silly, and I am vested with the job skills that will prevent me from needing to return to theft as a means of supplementing my income. By this method of dealing with crime industry is encouraged, poverty and ignorance and the diseases they breed are discouraged, and the masses are kept safe from the monsters that huant our population, the effect of which is to make society happy, healthier, safer and more productive: in short, this method of dealing with crime makes the world an intrinsicly better place. Such noble endevour is plenty of reason to bother. If you have no stomach for struggle or fighting, then I suggest you leave; because, as long as matter is finite life will always be synonymous with combat.
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Finnbjorn, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:12pm

Insulting
They say they're doing it in part to protect us grown citizens from witnessing 'the horror that is child pornography'. That's just insulting. I don't need a Big Brother to protect me from witnessing horror of any kind, neither do I desire one. What if I'm writing a paper on pederasty? Now I can't research my thesis online? Ditto to all that has already been said about how this will hamper law enforcement as well. What a load of crap.
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David, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:18pm

If I were a "restricted content provider"..
...I would make sure to link to all the big ISPs and a few govt agency sites. This way, if they start using algorithmic methods, they get blocked ;)
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Claes, 11 Jun 2008 @ 1:25pm

The Swedish list of blocked sites, with the sole purpose of blocking child porn, was leaked and those who analysed it could find almost no signs of illegal material. Now internet is of course very dynamic, but this still gives some indication of the problem of having the police acting as a kind of judge without any accountability. Obviously there's a lot of tasteless material on the internet, but most of it is not illegal.

Here is an example (perfectly safe to visit I assure you) of a swedish site hosting images that can be used to indicate that you want a certain material to be freely copied: http://www.kopimi.se/kopimi/

It was temporarily blocked (until the police received too many complaints) due to it's frontpage (perfectly safe to visit too).

Another interesting example is when the Swedish police accused The Pirate Bay for hosting child porn. It didn't try to inform the responsible persons of which files were illegal but instead announced that they planned to put the whole site on the blocking list. The really interesting part here is that they didn't start any investigation. This clearly shows that blocking can be misused as a seemingly easy solution when the real solution would be to track down the source.
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 2:36pm
  
  Re:
  Ok how many cleared there cache after visiting that site ?
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James, 11 Jun 2008 @ 2:24pm

Rediculous
This is the kind of f'd up logic behind drunk driving laws and such.. (while I've yet it to publicly declared) but I wouldn't at all be surprised for someone to say, "Hey, if we close the bars.. people will stop drinking"... sounds about the same as this bs.
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 6:44pm
  
  Re: Rediculous
  We already tried that.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volstead_Act
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- CW, 12 Jun 2008 @ 2:01pm
  
  Re: Rediculous
  We did that in the US. It was called Prohibition.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2008 @ 2:27pm

We only have law enforcements word for it that a significant Child Porn problem even exists.
Considering the allure of the power they can get by trumpeting "Kiddie Porn!!!" the wise observer ought to wonder if they might not be fabricating the whole thing to gain more control in general.
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- just for anonymous cowards sake, 28 Apr 2009 @ 1:12pm
  
  Re: to ananymous coward
  conspiracy theory attitude will make you wind up dead, do you really think that child porn does not exist or are you solely making an empty argument for the sake of making an empty argument..you are such a jerk.
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John (profile), 11 Jun 2008 @ 4:11pm

Can we get some more detail...
Can we get some more detail about this "blocking list"? The main question is this: how often is the list updated? Or will it be just as (non) effective as blocked spammer's e-mail addresses?
Sure, the list may block "childporn.com" (like the site would really have a domain name this obvious), but what's to stop the site-admins from creating a new site called "childpornyoucantstopus.com"? Then, when that site is put on the list, they simply create a new domain name?

The legislators should be taking a different approach: if they made it easier for these kinds of sites to be found, then the site-owners would be found... and it would be a whole lot easier to arrest them.

But, as usual, it's easier to fix the symptom than it is to go after the root problem.
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D, 11 Jun 2008 @ 5:42pm

pure pandering
Yet another example of a good idea gone entirely wrong. Legislators are almost universally stupid about regulating the internet. And this proves it. They'll be just as successful stopping this as they were at stopping spam. Zilch. But they never ask advice from anyone who actually knows something about internet technology.

Or better yet, maybe they did secretly ask some bright people, but then ignored them anyway, and instead opted to pander to their precious little nervous voters.

Way to go!
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cynikaljackal, 11 Jun 2008 @ 5:58pm

Separate Us
Separation my friends...separation! Separate us all! Let like terms live together. No more protests, no more wars, no more racism, no more...The bigger the group, the less 'democracy and integration' go together. The State is becoming more powerful than the governed. Let every man live on their own island happily and peacefully with whatever virtue they choose. The strong shall surely survive while the weak wither and die. E.g If people want to be gay, no need to hate them, simply put them on their island and let them be gay; nature will take it's course and they'll eventually become extinct due to lack of procreation. Child molestors? Let them grow their own kids and share amongst themselves (on their own island). Isn't that all the fighting is about...pushing our individual/collective ideals?
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- Finnbjorn, 12 Jun 2008 @ 7:22pm
  
  Re: Separate Us
  "Let every man live on their own island happily and peacefully with whatever virtue they choose."
  
  The pleasure of many is to dominate others and dictate society. This glitch in your 'reasoning' aside: if we isolated ourselves, then industry would become impossible and even agriculture would become difficult; so that, human life would be reduced to the dangerous level of bestial subsitance.
  
  "If people want to be gay, no need to hate them, simply put them on their island and let them be gay; nature will take it's course and they'll eventually become extinct due to lack of procreation."
  
  This statement is hateful and profoundly ignorant. Homosexuality is not a genetic trait; otherwise, there would be no homosexuals due to lack of procreation. Homosexuals always have and always will present normally within the breeding population of heterosexuals. Some research indicates that one in ten will be homosexual, no matter what, while other research suggests that the percentage of homosexuals within a society grows porportionately with the surplus population; but, all research agrees: homosexuals are born of heterosexuals, and heterosexuals will always produce homosexuals; so, you can't just send them off to get rid of them. There is no need to hate homosexuals anyway; because, they do no more harm to society than heterosexuals. Why do you care what grown, consenting adults do in privacy together anyway?
  
  "Child molestors? Let them grow their own kids and share amongst themselves (on their own island)."
  
  This is just disgusting. The crime in pedophelia is not adults acting out their fantasies. The crime in pedophelia is the physical and mental abuse, the raping of children. If you can't grasp that the single most important thing to do with child molestors is to keep them away from any children at all, then it is my sincere hope that you end up stranded on an island peopled with cannibals.
  
  The fighting is about people who profit from or enjoy injustice exerting their will per force on those who prefer peace and equality. The fighting is about safegaurding the weak from the sick. The fighting is about over-throwing the Oppressors and caging the Monsters so that the good People of Earth can lead happy, healthy, productive lives. And if you don't like it, then you're free to leave!
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  - cynikaljackal, 17 Jun 2008 @ 10:44am
    
    Re: Re: Separate Us
    Finnbjorn you're just a product of the world you live in and you cannot imagine otherwise. So you're one of the people who walk around with a rhetoric such as "that's life" and "diversity" and "lets all live happily together and be tolerant of each other". If I cared enough I would name you men who were, and still more men who are, ready to wipe out the entire world to preserve their virtues. But i'm guessing you're wise enough to know the history of history up to 2008. I will not entertain your argument further after this because I am right and you are wrong. YOU KNOW NOTHING! Your mind is encased in world that you cannot see past and you've solved and intend to solve nothing. And just before you go defending that rotten world of yours look up Picairn Islands. Nine Men...today the population is 50. Guess how they multiplied. Remember a group of people who set sail for North America from England? Do you know why? Remember a group of people who inhabited South Africa and set in motion Apartheid? Do you know why? Remember a man called Hitler? And if you're in tune with what's happeneing past your bedroom, did you hear about local South Africans attacking Zimi's? Do you know why? Do you wonder why they never attacked the Dutch in a similar manner? So you see, your only major attainment will always be theoretical and I'll stop short of another defense statement but before I do that let me just mention a few more things to you. And I quote:
    
    "The pleasure of many is to dominate others and dictate society. This glitch in your 'reasoning' aside: if we isolated ourselves, then industry would become impossible and even agriculture would become difficult; so that, human life would be reduced to the dangerous level of bestial subsitance.
    "
    
    My reply...not on my bloody Island! And I can name you a few places in Africa where they don't have to worry about "bestial subsitance" but only if I knew whether you cared about the world or perhaps just wherever the hell you are.
    
    "This statement is hateful and profoundly ignorant. Homosexuality is not a genetic trait; otherwise, there would be no homosexuals due to lack of procreation. Homosexuals always have and always will present normally within the breeding population of heterosexuals. Some research indicates that one in ten will be homosexual, no matter what, while other research suggests that the percentage of homosexuals within a society grows porportionately with the surplus population; but, all research agrees: homosexuals are born of heterosexuals, and heterosexuals will always produce homosexuals; so, you can't just send them off to get rid of them. There is no need to hate homosexuals anyway; because, they do no more harm to society than heterosexuals. Why do you care what grown, consenting adults do in privacy together anyway?"
    
    I can be as hateful as I want toward homos. And this is why we need separation. Do you think Finn, that anyone can get me to think two guys who fuck each other in the ass is normal? You see how your whole world has become warped Finn? I mention separation and you think something's wrong with that but mention fags who fuck in the ass and you think that's normal. And in your democratic world i'm sure its ok for me to hate fags right? I mean...its my right right? Unless of course now you're going to tell me what to like or hate. "Homosexuals are born of heterosexuals?" well slap me silly! By the way I am doing them a favor putting then in on an Island. In the Middle East and Africa they cut their dicks off. Who said I care what homos do? Who said I care whether there is racism or that the Cops shot that guy 50 times? Who said I care what your kids watch on TV? Who said I care if Israel bully's Palestine? Who said I care if a man traps his daughter for years and fathers her kids? Just don't bring that immorality 'round my doorsteps and we'll be fine. Or else 'll terminate your life and we don't have to worry about finding an Island for you.
    
    You know what Finn my final point is this: Separation is the hidden meaning to life. Whether you like it or not. If it doesn't get done manually, it will get done by nature (Pangaea). If not, it would be the result of a natural social order (Poverty Line). Or better yet people will always find where fits there lifestyle (Gated Communities). And there will always be the Ghetto, the hoods, Hollywood, Zimbabwe, Somalia, and the rolling hills of Yorkshire, England. And since everybody is a genius like you these days and have opinions, i'm sure when you get put on your gay loving island, industry and agriculture will be a no-brainer. FINN, YOU'RE WEAK AND IN CONSTANT NEED OF PROTECTION BY THE STRONG SO YOU SEEK SUCH THROUGH INTEGRATION!
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matt, 12 Jun 2008 @ 7:45am

not about protecting anyone
It's about putting cuomo's name in the national news. He blackmailed the ISPs into agreeing to his terms, which they wanted to do anyway (other than the million+ dollar 'contribution' to the protection fund) because Usenet costs them good money to maintain.

I'm sorry, but having your goons pose as subscribers that complain about content then see no action, then using that fact to threaten public fraud and deceptive business practices charges is blackmail. Since he is using it for personal political gain it borders on extortion. Especially since the matter had definitively been ruled on in court already, just not the way Cuomo wanted it.

Cuomo is a disgusting opportunist.
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bester, 16 Jun 2008 @ 1:23pm

i dont get how this will make things worse i thought it would just help things?
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rendom, 4 Jan 2009 @ 2:51pm

megaupoad downloading
Films, picts, mp3’s, videos and lots more available at http://megaupload.name/ for free downloading without registration!
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sienna, 9 Feb 2009 @ 11:27pm

help the children
We are looking forward for you to help us in our mission against CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. If you can still access the site its not yet blocked. Children are being forced to do XXX Pornography pictures and images. Most of these children and adult don’t have any legal contranct and documentation. Therefore they end up exploited. Check the following links below:
http://wow.eroticagateway.com/track/NjUyMTU6Mzo0NQ/join http://secure.teenlovelive.com
its your choice, check the site account and be a judged to yourself to blocked it.
Thanks and Godbless!
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