Prince Sues Musicians For Making A Tribute Album For His Birthday
from the happy-birthday! dept
It's been really disappointing watching how Prince has squandered what had been seen as a enlightened view of how music works in this day and age. Instead of continuing to embrace that, and use it to his advantage, Prince has become fantastically anti-fan, and day-by-day seems to be destroying his reputation. It started with threatening fan sites, quickly followed up by lawsuits against YouTube, eBay and the Pirate Bay, and more recently has involved a bizarre and ill-advised strategy of taking down YouTube videos that he probably had no right to take down.The latest case involves fifty Norwegian musicians, who teamed up with a Norwegian record label to create what they thought was a nice 50th birthday present for Prince: a "tribute" album with 81 covers of Prince songs. They figured that it would be a nice gesture to send Prince a copy, and contacted his representatives to figure out where to send a copy. What they didn't expect was for Prince, instead, to turn around and sue the label and all fifty musicians. He's also demanding that all copies of the album be destroyed.
There is a question of compulsory licenses here -- as Norway requires about $0.10/song, and with 81 songs, that's about $8 per album. The label (potentially incorrectly) believed that since it wasn't making any money on the album, it didn't need to pay. Even if the album ran afoul of copyright laws, this response from Prince is just dumb. Here are a group of musicians who are paying tribute to him, and he sues them. What better way to piss off a group of truly devoted fans?
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Filed Under: birthday, copyright, music, norway, prince, tribute album
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Thieves
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Smithsonian
I'm very serious. Please- tell me who I can write a letter to?
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Re: Thieves
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Re: Smithsonian
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Re: Thieves
"What better way to piss off a group of truly devoted fans?"
.. Can't really think of many better ways to piss off fans.
Re: grandpa
You must have missed the part where they intended to make no profit from this at all. It was a tribute to Prince. Even if Prince does have the right, that does not mean it is in his best interest to take full use of that right. Time for you to grow up and understand that there can be more to being a dan than simply liking the music. You may be a fan, but you have nothing on those Norwegians. They are bigger fans than you obviously ever will be. Although, I would be shocked if they are still fans after this. As for your comment about what if they butchered the songs. So be it. If they do, nobody will like their music and nobody will listen to it. Simple. You make it sound like once these are released nobody can listen to the originals or something.
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music business
FREE music doesn't benifit anyone but the thiefs. Period.
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He must have missed the 1990s...
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Grandpa, your a coward and an idiot!
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really sucks..
I was one of his biggest fans but now he's nearing an EPIC FAIL on the same level as Metallica, and I'll do the same to him as I did to them, sell all my collection and wipe any mp3's from my list, never to be heard in the household again and he can just keep searching for the purple banana.
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Re: Thieves
Go take your meds grandpa.
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Re: Thieves
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Killer_Tofu is lame
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Re: Re: Smithsonian
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Re: music business
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You little meth heads just don't think things through.
Lets say that you (and I mean you, little Jason) set up a lemonade stand and start selling to make a living. I guess it wouldn't bother you if lots of people set up stands and gave the drinks away for free! And it probably wouldn't bother you that they stole YOUR lemonade.
I tried to keep the example simple, because you're a simpleton.
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Prince?
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Re: Re: Smithsonian
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Lemonade
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Slave
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Indifference vs Antagonism
However, when an artist actually attacks their audience, and artists among them, for nothing more than enjoying, performing, sharing and building upon their art then they have truly lost sight of what it means to be an artist among artists.
They have been corrupted by the cult leaders of their corporate record labels to turn against the very people who love them.
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Princely weirdness
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Re: Re: Smithsonian
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RE: Indifference vs Antagonism
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Prince Who?
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Re: Smithsonian
Smithsonian
PO Box 37012
SI Building, Room 153, MRC 010
Washington, D.C. 20013-7012
http://newsdesk.si.edu/admin/org_chart.pdf
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Re: Thieves
Perhaps you were making an attempt at sarcasm? Calling the author stupid demonstrates your lack of understanding of the law and IP in general.
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Bullshit
Prince doesn't have 50 fans in Norway, and he knows it.
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"He stinks and I don't like him"
81 songs? Prince even has 81 songs? Did they just sing "little red corvette" and "when doves cry" over and over?
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Re: You little meth heads just don't think things through.
Isn't it?
Oh hang on, I spot a flaw in AC's argument.
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Re: Thieves
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Another amazing comment
You thought Metallica was bad, Jeebus!
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I vote he changes his name again
TANOKAH.
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Re: Re: Smithsonian
If anyone is curious, here's my talking points. I recommend you write in too.
* Distinction of the Artist's "Work" vs "Brand" (Prince's Work is being promoted, while he is still a Brand.)
* The Brand is protecting it's Brand Image.
* The Smithsonian is reserved for National treasures to be shared.
* Actions show prince is not a national treasure but a business and brand.
* Actions of suing parents, kids, anyone who threatens the Brand, and sales of the works.
Most importantly:
* Does the Smithsonian want to be associated with a "Brand" that's actively in litigation? And conversely, should Prince be associated with the good will of Smithsonian?
I will request clarification from Mr. Clough:
* Does a blatant attempt to maintain a "brand image" while being recognized as a national treasure go against the core ideas of a National Treasure and the Concept of the Smithsonian as a whole?
* Should the Smithsonian continue to accept and promote "National Treasures" which are still in Production?
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Re: music business
The Norwegians mistakenly believed since the album was not for profit, they didn't have to pay the compulsory license fee. Anyway you look at it, that isn't a business model of any kind. It was simply a mistake. Nice try though.
FREE music doesn't benifit anyone but the thiefs. Period.
You really don't know or understand what you're talking about.
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Re: You little meth heads just don't think things through.
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Re: Re: Re: Smithsonian
* Actions of suing parents, kids, anyone who threatens the Brand, and sales of the works.
Should read:
* Actions of suing parents, kids, anyone who threatens the Brand, including creating derivative works, without profit. Including legal action against derivative works created in other sovereign nations. (WTF!!)
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freeloaders? stealing? pah!
With that kind of history I don't think it was off-base for them to think he would be in to such a thing -- both in terms of doing the covers and giving them away for free.
I don't think it's that a musician was pissed of about this that is surprising, it's that it was a musical with the "free love" kidf of attitude that he showed toward his music in recent history.
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Re: Re: Thieves
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Re: Re: Thieves
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music
There is YOUR free. Crap.
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Re:
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Re: Thieves
Time to grow up and write your own music if you want to record.
What a moronic statement. Why don't you tell Prince to get rid of all the covers he has done over the years? Sounds like you are competing in senility with Prince right there.
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Re: Killer_Tofu is lame
Otherwise the worst they could have done would be to copyright infringe, and that is not stealing.
Your "grandpa" moniker suits you well as it assists with conveying your lack of knowledge in the topic matter.
And if I did write music, rest assured I would be glad if others took the time to do covers and other such derivative work. Thrilled in fact. It is a sign that they like my music. Even if I hated their derivative works, at least their hearts are in the right place. Not to mention they went through much more trouble than most fans ever would to show appreciation, and that says a lot about them. I would be honored indeed. And you are right, I probably would write them a letter thanking them.
However, I have assisted with a few small parts in open source software. Nothing major, but it was used, and I did have somebody once use my addition to add on a feature. I thought it was a stupid feature, but I was pretty darn happy that I enabled that. I am sure that counts close enough.
Then again, using the grandpa name, and making such arguments, I am sure you will toss out source programming as an exception and claim that it doesn't count. Which, if you do, it will only make you appear further out of touch with the way things are. Not will be, but are. No matter how much people like Prince fight it, you can't tell 80% of the population they are criminals. It only points out shoddy laws that need to be updated to the times.
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Re:
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Re:
Lol, yah it is.
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Re: Re: Thieves
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Re: Thieves
a short list of songs covered by other artists
Buddy Holly Oh Boy covered by rolling stones
Beatles various songs
Michale covered by the overlanders
obla de obla da marmalade
many done in a clasical style by london philharmonic
i wont go on or mike will need to buy more bandwidth.
you do not understand the music business grandpa.
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Re: music
I must admit, I am almost getting tired of explaining this to new people. Almost.
It is NOT stealing. Stealing would be if you owned a car, and I took it. You can no longer use the car, because it is a physical tangible good, and gone because I took it. If somebody downloads a song, does the songwriter or musician no longer have it? Nope, they still have it. So it is not stealing because it is not a tangible good. It is not an act of theft. It is copyright infringement. What was the RIAA suing dead people over? Stealing stuff? Nope. They are trying to sue over Copyright Infringement. Whether they even have any grounds for this is not the point of discussion, I am just showing that even your beloved heros that 99% of the world hates know the difference between stealing and copyright infringement. Although, that doesn't mean that they haven't tried to muck up the waters and tried to say that it is stealing. But still, no judge has ever agreed in any sort of way that it is stealing anyways.
Calling it stealing just makes you look ignant, and removes credibility from the rest of your argument.
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The guy doesn't need money, he's so sick with cash that he could disappear, but that's not the point... EVERY artist should be doing what he is doing because it is their right to do so under the laws.
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Re: Re: Thieves
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I believe in a more academic view when in comes to music, tech, etc., (any idea that the govt. and corporate says can be 'owned').
In my opinion this is how I would have it work.
If you create a song that is completely new, and then go and record this song, register and secure a copyright on the recording (re-read that last part and let it sink in) then you are entitled to protect that recording no matter the medium or encoding. You alone should be allowed to license this recording for distribution. When a work is created for pay, then the employer holds this grant.
This license should be allowed to expire in a reasonable amount of time.
The lyrics and musical score (or any other source idea) registered and a copyright is secured separate from the recorded information. This is how cover licenses are taken care of. and again this grant is allowed to expire.
Radio services would acquire a license to distribute recoded information to anyone tuning in at that time. This is why recording something off radio works fine in this model.
An end-user licenses holder is allowed to make backup copies of recorded information. This would consumers to keep plastic discs, backup HD's, and other of the sort while still being able to keep a cd in their car, and a file on their iPod or device of their choice. The holder of and end-user license should be able to transfer that license (first sale stuff)
A person who is licensed to distribute recorded information can't make up BS EUL agreements (i.e. software distributors really go to town on that stuff).
Public Performance rights are dealt with the same way as radio, and should only be required is the audience is large enough for the duration of a given time frame (licensing music to be looped in your store). Blasting your radio while you work, or looping radio through a PA system does not require a license, since the radio operator has already acquired one.
Cover recordings and performances are allowed when the separate lyrics/score are licensed. These licenses should not be able to be revoked or transferred.
License agreements can be made between distributors and cover artists, but not to extend the period of protection.
All that really doesn't matter after the grant expires.
... omg. that's why this is so f(* up!
still overly simplified, no fair use yet, doesn't distinguish between commercial and non-commercial, but this shit is making my head hurt. (man I'm glad i didn't choose law)
please rip into my opinions, that's the only way compromise works
and even in this simplified system the norway guys still screwed up. now there is still the argument of whether it was good business to sue, but...
except for the more recent stuff, this wouldn't have been an issue if grants still expired in a decent period of time (I find ten reasonable, 25 max in my opinion)
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thieves
Techdirt should collect the IP addresses of the fools in this chat. They probably steal everything that is possible on the net.
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wtf?
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don't burn yourself up on this tofu
a: never researched the issue
or b: has ties to a music or movie industry
or c: ignorant and unfamiliar with fact
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Re: thieves
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thieves
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Re:
What turnip truck did you people roll off of???
Nobody stole anything and nobody is making a profit, I really don't see the harm... other than Prince's over inflated ego being bruised.
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Serves them right
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Re: You little meth heads just don't think things through.
This is the correct analogy.
Pretend you moved out of your dead uncle's garage. You decided to start a lemonade stand.
Now 80 people in the surrounding neighborhood,s from where you live in your cardboard box, really liked your lemonade!
They decided to start sharing some of that lemonade with others. That is how much they loved your lemonade! When they ran out of lemonade, some were so inspired by your lemonade that they made lemonade of their own. They gave that lemonade away and said, 'Hey if you like my lemonade, go buy some from the homeless man in the box'.
That would be the correct analogy. Would you be ticked when new fans, who may never had known you even had a lemonade stand outside your box, started buying from you? You might, but a sane person would be ecstatic.
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Re: thieves
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Re: wtf?
The whole thing is stupid...........
Several hundred million dollars just isn't enough for some has beens.
It makes me sick.
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Re:
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Re: Thieves
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Re: Re: wtf?
I mean, they obviously enjoy Prince's music (for whatever reason) so for "fun" and to pay "tribute" (not to make a profit) they "reproduced" his music. It's the same thing really.
Now, on the other hand if these people were doing this to make money and Prince was not seeing any of that money.. I could see the problem.
maybe I am just biased since once in a while my friends and I find it fun to play some music from bands we like.
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WHOA
wait... oops... screwed the pooch on that one.
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Re: Prince Sues His Fans
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Re: Re: wtf?
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Re: Prince?
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Re: music business
I'm sure Trent Reznor would disagree...
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So 50 'artists' got together in an attempt to get free publicity, and now they're pissed that uhm.. they're getting it?
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picture this
Now, would u pay $10 to keep that from happening? Can u hear me now?
Btw he may be a divo, but he is genius.
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Re:
And Prince SUES.
Did you fucking miss that, Asshole?
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Re: picture this
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Re: Thieves
Personally, I'm all for covers and remixes, I believe that you can truly create a new and beautiful song using and existing foundation. Do you think that sitting women were never a subject for artists before Da Vinci came along?
Prince is a talented musician, but that doesn't have any bearing on his credentials as a copyright lawyer... or a winner for that matter...
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Re: You little meth heads just don't think things through.
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Re: Thieves
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Re: Re: Re: Thieves
How many times have to seen a band cover a song in their concert off the cuff? Do you really think they paid for the royalties or even got permission to do it?
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Re: Bullshit
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Re:
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Re: Re: wtf?
If you didn't already realize this, nearly all school-age kids' instruments are provided by the school...for free (or taxpayer money). Sometimes rich parents might buy their kid a new instrument, but don't generalize unnecesarily to create a meaningless point.
F
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Hmm....
Free music is not the choice that will win either. Instead, perhaps the "pay what you want" model might be the way to go as more and more bands leave behind the big labels.
Its a pity to see such a talented musician (the man can play more instruments than you have fingers) resort to such measures, like Metallica.
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Re: Thieves
Um, no one said that he didn't have a right. I believe Mike said that it was dumb to piss off your fans. That IS dumb. That's what happens when people listen to thier attorneys instead of thier PR reps.
He could have just had his attorney send them a letter explaining that they owe eight dollars per album for use of his material, or asked them not to devalue his music. True fans probably would have been disappointed, but otherwise okay. A lightning lawsuit was not the best PR response.
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Re:
But he wants all copies destroyed and is all angry dude about this tribute. That's bad PR and bad for any future sales of anything.
Economically speaking, his lawsuit is a bummer.
That's the point of the article, idiots.
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Re: thieves
Oh, wait, capitol letters don't make me right.
Crap.
They covered those songs becuase they loved them, not to make money from them. They didn't profit from them. they were not paid. And generalized statements about a specific situation only make you seem like an idiot.
C'mon now, Sister of Dot. It's time to take your medicine and lay down for a nice nap. Here, put on your nice white jacket so you'll be more comfortable...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Thieves
Three Days Grace did this in their concert when they were here in MI.
During the last song it was Home, and partway through the song switched to Hey Man Nice Shot, and then back to Home.
Was freaking awesome.
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Re: Re: Smithsonian
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Re: Re: music business
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Re: thieves
Thank you.
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Re: You little meth heads just don't think things through.
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Re: Re: Re: wtf?
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Re: Prince Who?
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Re: Thieves
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This is obvious bad press, but...
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Prince fan here!
What does "relevant music" mean? Listen to the lyrics of the song "Planet Earth" off his newest album...which he GAVE AWAY two million copies to...
Why the pissing matches between people here? Seems like a bi-polar freak show to me.
Peace, y'all...PEACE!
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out of 20 musicians, NOBODY knew that if you use a song written/published by someone else -you need a license from them - normally requiring some payment in advance- YEH RIGHT!
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Re: Re: Thieves
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Re: Prince Who?
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Who are these people?
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musician's perspective....
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Re:
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princerage
I thinks "you pay your rights to play the songs"
>the Way YOU WANT TO!
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prince sues musicians...
Rock on Prince!
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The 5-disc set sells for about $50 USD. They should have arranged the license beforehand. They should pay the $8 per disc-set to whomever owns the rights to the songs they recorded.
This isn't about greed, or being to big of a star. It is getting what you are legally entitled to and not letting people profit from your image and creativity.
The publicity is too bad because it paints Prince in a light of cuing some poor garage band for making a tribute CD and sending it to him as a present.
That is not what happened. They put a lot of work into it, and expected to recoup some of the money spent doing it. Was there real purpose to give it as a gift literally to Prince? Who knows. But once they decided to print copies and sell it, it became a legal matter. Prince is not a jerk here, he is just being painted as one because it is an easy sell and far more interesting than the truth.
Peace!
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Re:
to big of a star = too big of a star
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Re: Prince Who?
If they were friends or people that I knew, it would be easier to take; And it's hard to fault the guy for not taking the time to try and get to know these people or listen to the album; in the end, it's just free publicity for them, fans or no fans, with no upside to Prince except the fact that they get to ride his coattails by performing songs and getting notoriety because of it.
I'm not sure if I would've outright sued without issuing a statement explaining his position, but that's what happens when you've slipped on the purple banana peel one too many times.
As far as musical relevance, for me personally, while Purple Rain remains a great album, I personally think Sign of the Times is an incredible collection of his talent; so many musical styles and themes - I don't see how it came out of one person's head. Even the album with the squiggly symbol was pretty damned good, but obviously your mileage may vary.
Just my opinion. Respect yours. Peace.
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Re: Re: Smithsonian
That's ok now:
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/p.html#prepositions
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Prince and his muisc
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Infringement!
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Re: Re: You little meth heads just don't think things through.
their a form of tyranny
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Thieves in the Temple
Lighten up tho' Prince. The fans r with u
P xx
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