Repair A Computer In Texas Without A License And Face A Year In Jail
from the ridiculous-laws dept
Here's a bizarre one sent in by Syborg1404. It turns out that it's against the law in Texas to repair a computer without a private investigator's license. Specifically, the law requires anyone who is repairing a customer's computer by analyzing data on the computer to have a private eye's license -- which only takes three years as an apprentice or to earn a criminal justice degree. This isn't just an out-of-date law still on the books either. It was passed last year, though it's now being contested as unconstitutional. While it does not appear that anyone's been charged under the law, computer repair technicians used to cleaning spyware and viruses off of computers in Texas are reasonably worried.To be honest, this whole thing sounds like garden variety protectionism, similar to state laws that required people selling goods on eBay to spend a year or more to get an auctioneer's license. These laws aren't about protecting consumers, but about limiting the number of competitors in the market itself. Hopefully Texas gets rid of it before someone is fined and tossed in jail for cleaning spyware out of someone's computer.
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Filed Under: computer repair, licenses, private investigators, protectionism, texas
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Viruses
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It's about protecting Private Investigator Jobs
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Re: It's about protecting Private Investigator Jobs
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This was mis-written, right? You must have meant require instead of forbid:
"Specifically, the law REQUIRES anyone who is repairing a customer's computer (by analyzing data on the computer) to get a private eye's license"
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Re:
Oops. Yes. Fixed now.
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Get Rich opportunity!
The new titles sound very official:
angry dude, MCSE-PI
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Gr8t Comment
This law is stoopid...
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Talk about going down hill.
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Re:
Do you have a critique of the actual content? Is there something incorrect in the article?
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Re: Re:
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re: AC
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Goodbye, volunteer tech support!
http://www.geeksquad.com/services/category.aspx?id=231
Nice going.
~ Me
Somewhere in Texas
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Re: Goodbye, volunteer tech support!
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Re: Re: Goodbye, volunteer tech support!
So I guess the next thing is that accountants will have to have P.I. license to see a customer's financial records. A trained accountant will know very quickly if the customer is doing something shady.
I want to know just what the heck a PI is going to do when he or she runs into a situation that requires a COMPUTER FORENSICS expert, eh? Same thing as me, with my dinky A+ cert and BS in Information Technology... go "hands off" and call in the REAL experts.
~ Me
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Re: Goodbye, volunteer tech support!
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Priorities
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Texas
Problem solved.
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Re: Texas
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Re: Texas
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Re: Re: Texas
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Re: Re: Texas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_mexican_war
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UT?
YO ESTANDO USAR EL INTARWEBZ!!!!!
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Man
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/01texas.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
And this:
http://www.legalnewsline.com/news/213856-texas-supreme-court-rejects-exorcism-lawsuit
Te xas law is firmly rooted in my mind as completely insane.
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Re: Man
Anyone who is willing to break into a person's home and steal thier cherished and valuable belongings, for any reason, is a worthless waste of skin and bones and doesn't deserve the to breathe same air and enjoy the same sunshine as the rest of us. I'm not sayinh they should die, but if they lose a leg or an arm, or end up in intensive care for a week or so, you won't see me crying for 'em.
These days everyone's too caught up in caring about everyone else, when the fact is most people, especially these 2 guys, didn't give a fat shit about you or the person they robbed and never would have, had they lived, so why should you care what misfortunes befall them?
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BS
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Texas?
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I believe DavidM.
This article wherever it came from was probably taken out of context by some college students.
Its like no one will turn you in if you knock off a terrorist....ok bad example.. :P
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Institute for Justice Link
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selling Texas back?
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Re: selling Texas back?
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Texas
Which one damn it! This is what the dolt affluent politicians do with our time and money.
... makes me want to vomit!
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BTW, I have read the law and can well understand why it has not become the topic of discussion among attorneys concerning the mere repair of computers.
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Mas, you're better than this
The statement by the UT reporter, "According to the law passed in the 2007 Texas legislative session, the private investigator's license is required for repair technicians to analyze their customers' computer data." is completely misrepresenting the facts. Don't even go to the Institute for Justice article on this. It's a farce.
Even a cursory read will tell you that there's no such law. Just because 1702.104(b)says is that electronic information/analysis is included in the definition of information for 1702.104(a) doesn't mean that it's not still 100% qualified by paragraphs A-D which are all forms of investigative work.
Nutshell: if a repair person is hired to sift through a hard drive to snoop on someone or investigate a crime or civil dispute, then yeah, they're doing de facto investigative work just as if they were beating the street. A computer repair person simply analyzing data is NOT liable unless they're analyzing data for an investigation.
Now, go back and read the university newspaper again. Does it actually cite an instance where an repair person was prosecuted for acting as an investigator? What is the actual story here? Seriously follow the link and read it.
Here's how it reads to me, plain and simple:
Some watchdog group went around contacting repair people and saying, "Did you know that you MIGHT get prosecuted (on a completely ridiculous technicality that we just made up)? Doesn't that bother you? Would you like us to sue the ridiculously inculpable Texas Private Security Board for the actions of the Texas State Legislature? You would? Great!"
There are no other facts here.
Was someone suing Rife? Not mentioned.
Was Rife being prosecuted in any Texas jurisdiction? Not mentioned.
Was anybody suing anybody over this? No mention. Was any computer repair person anywhere facing charges over this? Not mentioned.
It's just some group being both hyper-technical and hyper-wrong about what the law might possibly say, but in reality actually doesn't.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but frankly you could have gone to public school and still not screwed it up as bad as the Texas chapter of the "Institute for Justice."
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Re: Mas, you're better than this
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Re: Mas, you're better than this
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More links
http://www.asginvestigations.com/pi-stories/?p=201
(making much of how well protected citizens are going to be, now that we nogoodnik techies won't be competing with them)
and from the... ahem... horse's... mouth.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/docs/psb_opin_sum.pdf
from the PDF:
"Computer repair or support services should be aware that if they offer to perform investigative services, such as assisting a customer with solving a computer-related crime, they must be licensed as investigators."
So in short, if I help one of my customers solve the computer-related crime of distributing malware and spam, I'm breaking the law. I'm not "solving" it by trying to find a culprit, although I may see some interesting stuff while I'm deep in the software guts of the system, running the fixes. I'm "solving" it by getting it the heck off their systems.
And what about the system administrators whose JOB it is to provide network security? Are they going to shut down my workplace for the next three years, while they all get PI-certified? Given that it's a government installation, this could actually be amusing.
~ Me
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Re: More links
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Re: More links
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Re: Re: More links
So should the auto mechanic, just in case you forget and leave the body in your trunk...
Seriously, here's a slightly better question. What if your window guy determines in the course of his investigation that the window contained regular glass, instead of the bulletproof glass you paid for? He has stumbled across sensitive information that leaves the installer of the window vulnerable to civil suit. Should he have to hire a PI to tell you this? What does the PI know about glass?
As for the system administrators, I should have said it's "part" of their job to provide security. They maintain the system, install and run security, database and backup software, handle technical support, and yes, they do investigate security breaches. They do it in order to close the holes, but I assure you that if it was deliberately caused, the offender will face disciplinary action. They will analyze whatever files are necessary to close the security hole. And there's not a PI in the bunch... they do have a pile of rules to wade through, and agreements to sign, but a PI license isn't one of the requirements.
I understand that the overall issue is one of due process, and not having something that a computer tech turns up being improperly used to prosecute an individual. There's probably a secondary intent of not having the techie muck up the evidence. The reasoning appears to be that only qualified investigators should provide the kind of analysis that impacts a person's career (or freedom). However, the Tx PSB's description is too comprehensive, and doesn't make sense, even when applied strictly to a court of law. What good would a PI have done in the Amero case, for instance? The "expert" called in by the prosecution didn't even know the difference between deliberate surfing of a site and malicious pop-ups.
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/434/
I think it makes more sense for a PI to procure IT forensics certification in order to present incriminating analyses of computer data, rather than for a technician get 3 years of PI training, in order to track down the source of that pesky trojan, troubleshoot a customer's software issues by examining files, or back up/migrate a user's personal data from one computer to another at their request. All of the above could lead to me seeing sensitive information.
When a customer is referred to me with a problem, I don't know whether I'm going to be swapping out a CMOS battery or analyzing their files to see what stinker they managed to find and inadvertently install, this time. Why do I need three years of EXTRA training, in order to know to call the cops if I see possible evidence of illegal activity?
Given that all of my tech support is pro bono (other IT fields pay better) for family, friends, church and their referrals, mandating a 3-year cert just means that my support will stop.
~ Me
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Re: Re: Re: More links
Quit anal-ogizing and just read the frickin law. There's absolutely nothing in there about what a repair person might see. It's strictly if part of the job when the deal was made included the investigation.
Oh help me, but I'll succumb to the analogy one last time. IF and ONLY IF you had told this poor over analyzed window guy to snoop into the room so as to investigate to see whether or not there was weed in the room, AND ONLY THEN IF he actually agreed to do the snooping - and after all since the story is retarded, so also the character must be - THEN AND ONLY then is your window guy going to need a PI license.
But you obviously have first hand experience with the aforementioned weed scenario, and far too much based upon what I read in your post.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: More links
As for the weed scenario - Nice personal attack. Not that it's relevant, but the only mind-altering substance I indulge in is caffeine. Granted, LOTS of caffeine.
If your intent is to find out WHY something is happening, in addition to fixing the problem, you are performing an investigation.
To put it into an innocent context, if malware keeps returning because an employee isn't properly educated in the use of email and instant messaging, then you want to track it down and provide some remedial instruction, even if the employee is embarrassed by it. I've run into this situation, and tried to make the discussion as non-threatening as possible. However, should an employee feel threatened and file suit, this Code would be a logical part of their attack.
My "anal-ogizing" is nothing, compared to the twists and turns taken by prosecutors and defense attorneys.
I know I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me, so I'm outtahere for now. Time for another cup of coffee.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More links
Well, there you go. You're right about that. Now we've both conceded a point.
My "anal-ogizing" is nothing, compared to the twists and turns taken by prosecutors and defense attorneys.
Taken? Has this already been tried? If so, then we're talking about something altogether different. Odd that none of the articles reported on it. That would be strong supportive detail, and would actually form a real story.
Look, I think you're right that we're approaching an impasse. I certainly understand where you're coming from. My point is simply that the claim that Texas has (as though this were actual and not suppositional) somehow outlawed PC repair for non-PIs is a huge misstatement, and that the law will most likely never result in what IS arguably (though I strongly doubt) a loophole - certainly a needless one if there is. Fair enough?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More links
As for the innocent context, you're right it is innocent, but I'm pretty comfortable that it's covered by the availability clause (also weak, but also good enough).
I'm off to drink some very effeminate herbal tea, wishing it was another cup of coffee (but at least I'll maybe finally get some sleep) - Kind regards, Anonymous Jason
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Re: @Jake
This whole thing is just silly.
~ Me
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Re: @Jake
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a good solution, at least not as described in the original newspaper article. But the problem it's trying to solve is real.
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Re:
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I predict
Analysis of computer-based data for the purposes of discovering information related to the causes of an event or an individual’s conduct requires licensing. Mere scanning, retrieval, and reproduction of data associated with electronic discovery or litigation support services do not. Since network intrusion consultants and penetration testers have potential access to their clients’ confidential information, these professionals must be licensed.
So, according to the Texas Private Security Board, if you perform penetration testing (for the company you work for, or as a consultant, maybe even on your own network), you must have a PI license.
PIs must be the equivalent of doctors in Texas. Why isn't there at least the requirement for such PIs to have, at the very least, A+ certification?
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Re: I predict
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Re: I predict
Seriously, RTFL! Quit quoting someone's half-accurate comments on the law and just read the law. No aspect of basic computer repair and maintenance requires this license. The linked articles that say it does are just flat-assed wrong.
What is it Ze Frank says? "Thinking so you don't have to."
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Re: Re: I predict
***
The review of computer data for the purpose of investigating potential criminal or civil matters is a regulated activity under Chapter 1702 of the Texas Occupations Code, as is offering to perform such services.
Section 1702.102 provides as follows:
§1702.104. Investigations Company
(a) A person acts as an investigations company for the purposes of this chapter if the person:
(1) engages in the business of obtaining or furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information related to:
Revised 06-25-08
...
(C) the location, disposition, or recovery of lost or stolen property; or
(D) the cause or responsibility for a fire, libel, loss, accident, damage, or injury to a person or to property;
...
(b) For purposes of subsection (a)(1), obtaining or furnishing information includes information obtained or furnished through the review and analysis of, and the investigation into the content of, computer-based data not available to the public.
Please be aware that providing or offering to provide a regulated service without a license is a criminal offense. TEX. OCC. CODE §§1702.101, 1702.388. Employment of an unlicensed individual who is required to be licensed is also a criminal offense. TEX. OCC. CODE §1702.386.
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Re: Re: Re: I predict
And that's what the judge will say, except that you'll never see this come before a criminal court in the state of Texas because DAs need low-priced PC support more than anyone.
Concession accepted. Havuhnizday
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I predict
Really? I'd venture to say that most DAs have larger budgets than most computer technicians. What they really need and want is convictions.
I think you should reread his comment.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I predict
The remaining vast majority work teeny weeny county seats across the state and double as their own administrators, and really care a lot about their budget because when that one huge important case comes up they still have to fork out just as much for expert witnesses as the big towns, and a comparison to the budget of a computer tech is wildly irrelevant and stupid, and that's not really the point either, as much as it is that this supposed problem is really insignificant in the first place, and in the second I wasn't genteelly accepting a concession, I was hi-jacking it to say that reasonable still has to mean reasonable because judges don't like being overturned in ways that make them look stupid, and I don't care that this is a run-on sentence either. Good night, and good luck.
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..Repair A Computer In Texas Without A License And Face A Year In Jail
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Better suggestion
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Just look at some of those EULAs which state removal is a violation of the agreement.
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That means...
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stupidity
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Wake up
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Re: Wake up
I have and it's not fun or cheap. Anyway, I've posted one Texas legislators response to this issue over at liberaljesus.com
It's a silver lining on a rather murky issue.
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House Bill 2833 - State of Texas
How?
If you ask a pc tech to find out about any computer, they could do it.
The person making the request does not have to go through an investigation company!
This really matters in big law suit cases where millions of dollars are being spent, BUT NOT TO THE INVESTIGATION COMPANIES! Instead a regular pc tech is getting a cut of their money!
If I'm wrong, then explain a better reason.
I'm a IT professional that specializes in PC Repair and On-site support. I have been asked by parents, supervisors and owners of computers to tell me what or who is being done to their computer.
This would be the same as going to the car mechanic and he couldnt tell you what's wrong with the car because someone may have driven it and caused damage!
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Law is crazy
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Texas Computer Service
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Computer Service In General
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Aliens Come
But I think that life will reborn in earth with a new shape and with a new civilization with different creatures. The earth is simply like a movie show to the Aliens who created us for the same reason. And the end of the movie comes on the date of 2012. After that a new movie begins....
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Circuit-Level Laptop Motherboard Repair
Own a computer repair shop? Get your first repair FREE!
To learn more, go to PrecisionDivision.com
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Im impressed, I should say. Pretty rarely do I come across a blog thats each informative and entertaining, and let me let you know, youve hit the nail on the head. Your blog is significant; the problem is some thing that not sufficient men and women are talking intelligently about. Im seriously happy that I stumbled across this in my search for one thing relating to this issue.
<b><a href="http://office-365-support.com">Office 365 Support<a>
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