Now Canadian Teachers Want Cyberbullying To Be A Criminal Offense
from the overreact-much? dept
At some point, people need to realize that there are some people out there who just do jerkry things. In fact, at some point or another, probably most everyone is a jerk to someone else. It's no fun to be on the receiving end of someone being a jerk -- but it happens. However, in the last few years, there's been this silly focus on trying to turn online jerks into criminals. We've already highlighted such an effort underway in the US, but now a bunch of teachers in Canada are pushing to make cyberbullying a criminal offense. Yes, it's important to deal with cyberbullies, but charging them with a crime clearly goes too far.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: bullying, canada, cyberbullying, jerks, laws, teachers
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Keep knocking off the sharp edges of the world and your kid will grow up to be afraid of his own shadow.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
If teachers can't deal with bullying in their own classrooms why do they think bullying that goes on far from their own field of vision will be something they can prevent?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
In contrast, say a real life bully... punches you in the face. That's not something you can simply delete or add to your ignore list.
I think a law like this is ridiculous.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: missing something
the internet is the great leveler for bullying, anyone can learn to defend themselves from verbal attacks
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Life is not a nice safe place right now. Won't be for a while. For generations bullying has been the norm of school life. Even jocks get bullied at times (always older kids).
Cyberbullying should be dealt with similiarly. How do you deal with real life bullying? Two ways, usually done simultaneously.
A) Teach your kid to deal with it.
B) Punish the kid doing the bullying.
You can't do B if the parents of the Bully won't help either. All that will do is make it worse for the kid getting picked on. It pays to Know Your Foe.
I was picked on in elementary and middle school. I honestly wouldn't be who I am today without having been picked on.
Oddly enough, some of the people that used to beat me up have turned around to be decent folks once we were in high school. Some bullies do learn what they did was bad, and they regret it.
What if bullying had been a crime? Some of these guys are overall good guys - now at least. But if it was a crime they'd have a nasty record and possibly have gone to juvie which doesn't help anyone except a few rare cases.
Knee jerk reactions are dangerous. America is already paying for one we were led into by the Administration. Don't make things worse for future generations with yet another one.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Teachers can work to combat it, in the same way they work to combat bullying. Parents can teach their children to handle it, just like they do with bullying (it's not as if people stop being jerks when they're adults).
Everything that causes harm shouldn't be illegal.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There are already laws in place against harassment, which should cover any of the serious cyber bullying that goes on.
It's just another attempt to demonise the internet, and some more "WE MUST PROTECT DA CHILDRUN!" crap from people who aren't doing their own jobs properly.
Like Ven'Tatsu says, if teachers and school authorities can't deal with bullying in real life, where you can *see* the bully and the victim out of the window, how on Earth do they expect anyone to do anything about bullying via email?
I agree that it shouldn't be something that's just laughed at and ignored, but making "cyber bullying" into a criminal offence isn't the right way. If anything, some basic education on how to use the internet would do wonders (an amazing amount of people don't seem to know how to block an email address, or block a contact on MSN, for example).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: 100% agreed
Same idea, if you made it illegal to "be an asshole" its too vague of a perception. 100% agreed on the rest of your phrases here.
If a kid doesn't know how to deal with bullying then obviously the parents have been failing at their job in the first place.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
appropriate response
Turn off the computer. Disconnect the internet, being in these channels is a chioce, just like what you watch on TV, or listen to on the radio.
If you feel your child is not capable of dealing with what they may encounter in these areas, do not let your child go there unsupervised. Do you take your 5 year old to the ghetto to show them crack dealers?
If your child needs protection it is the parents job, not the laws, the provision of criminal law is to protect society. Not the individual, the individual needs to have some capability to look out for him/herself and their own family/property/personal preferences.
The answer is not always to litigate, sometimes the answer is personal accountability.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
IMHO
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Physical assault. Libel. Slander. Burglary or theft. Vandalism. Patterns of harassment can be fought with civil restrictions like restraining orders. I'd imagine there's even more fine-grained legal separations within the Code that apply.
We're left to wonder, what essential gaps remain in the current law that this legislation fills? Punishing people who write things that someone else gets butthurt about? As others have pointed out, that pretty much covers everyone, including the person who's building up a good head of steam reading my own post right now.
Ending bullying is a fine, high-minded sentiment. I'm sure we'll eventually get to it, probably shortly after we end war, poverty, and all get those cool flying cars that fold up into briefcases like the Jetsons.
In the interim, however, this just feeble, feel-good political grandstanding by yet another politician. All sound and fury, signifying nothing, as it were.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
So let's be honest here this isn't a let's protect the children scenario at all.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Internet Harrasment on the Rise!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Internet Harassment on the Rise!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
At times I'm almost ashamed of being Canadian
I'm also at a total loss to find anything that it would improve. Oh, it feels good to those calling for it because it imposes the greatest legal sanction the state has against the behaviour. And it is, of course, about protecting the children.
OK..that's out of the system now then let's take the time to actually look at why it won't work.
First of all as it would be a criminal offence the Crown and only the Crown (is US parlance the State) could bring a charge forward under the new Criminal Code offence. Crown Counsel (Prosecutor in US parlance) would have to look at the charge to see if there's enough chance of a conviction to even take it into a Criminal Court. Then the charge has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt which is hard to do. I can't imagine what evidence would manage that for one thing.
Secondly if you can do that the offender, often also a young person 18 or under, will be tried and sentenced as a young offender.
As critics of Canada's Young Offenders Act have correctly pointed out the main problem with the Act is the lack of any real consequences for criminal behaviour. Sanction without consequences is no sanction at all. I'm not in any way advocating that young offenders be treated with the same harshness as adult offenders, by the way. Though those of us living in British Columbia often think that adult sentences are something of a bad joke.
Oh, and as shaming is one of the most effective ways of dealing with a bully a tool for doing that is removed simply because the Young Offenders Act forbids publication of the name of the accused/convicted young offender.
So just exactly what has been accomplished here other than to ensure that it is actually harder to "protect the children" than it is now.
Left as a civil action all that is needed to deal with a kid is what is called, in legal terms balance of probabilities a far lower standard of proof that what's required in a criminal proceeding. In short the way discipline, what there is of it, is carried out in school systems right now. It's also possible to discipline a group of children without having to deal with proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Let's also remember here that cyberbullying is started and done at its worst by kids the victim already knows. Others on places like Facebook and YouTube may join in from around the world but the start always occurs with a known perpetrator or perpetrators. People that know you are also the ones who can cut the deepest with this.
Let's also remember that studies have shown that the vast majority of cyberbullies are girls and that their victims are girls.
One of (the only?) saving graces of teenage boy macho culture is that it demands that issues are dealt with face to face. Male perpetrators are an order of magnitude fewer than female perpetrators.
The problem with do-gooders, at least in Canada, is that they want good to be done but are reluctant to do it themselves. It's easy to say that "I've done something" and forget it by passing motions like the one the national teachers organization did that call for criminalization of a behaviour then sit back and do nothing but complain when it doesn't or can't happen for reasons like those I've outlined above.
Still, they get to say they've done something when, in fact, they've done nothing at all. Less than nothing, in fact.
ttfn
John
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WTF???
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
bullying in general
My kid is bigger now, and he absolutely refuses to be beaten on anymore. Last week, a large kid put a smaller kid(by the neck) over a steel railing, and proceeded to 'pile drive' with an elbow on that kid's neck, over the f'n rail. How long did they want three or four kids to wait? Takes about five to ten minutes to fetch some teacher to stop it. The child could have been killed, maimed, or destroyed. My son threw off the attacker, saved the small boy, who immediately collapsed. He got screamed at, threatened with expulsion...excuse me. My kid saved that little boy's life, without doubt. I gave him $100 cash, and told him he was my hero, if no one else's. So for this zero tolerance bs, if ya wanna play that game, put the f'n coffee down, get yer high assed attitude onto the playground, and protect the children. If they don't want to do that, return to us the right to sue. Recently, a six year old child choked to death after being sent to the bathroom--she thought he was going to puke on her classroom floor. He died. They refused an inquest, his mother hung herself. Our schools have no accountability, and our children are defenceless in them. I disagree with bullying, and throwing kids in jail. But I will never tell my son to stand and let some asshole slap him around. You swing on him, ya best be ready for a full on punch, square in your uneducated mouth. How canadian is that? For any who take offence, in any way to any single word, phrase, collection of such, or otherwise, bite me. When your child is delivered to you in a body bag, and you can't do shit all about it, come on back, and we'll debate self defence and human rights in canadian schools.
DarthMom
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
hi
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]