To Make Its Case, Coupons.com Says It Blocks Users When It Doesn't
from the let's-get-this-straight dept
We recently noted the somewhat mixed ruling in the Coupons.com lawsuit over whether or not it's a DMCA violation to merely tell people to delete some files from their hard drive. The ruling noted that Coupons.com was trying to make a rather questionable argument. It's a bit technical, and it required multiple readings to really understand what's going on here, but effectively, Coupons.com is trying to invoke the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause to punish a programmer who figured out how to get around the limits enforced by Coupons.com's software, which lets users use a coupon a limited number of times. The real issue in this case is whether the software is about preventing uses or copies. If it's uses, then it's not covered by the DMCA. If it's copies, then it is. The court noted that it certainly seems like the software is focused on uses rather than copies, as there's no actual part of the software that blocks you from accessing the coupons as much as you want. It just blocks you from using them.The programmer, John Stottlemire, who is being sued in this case, writes in to let us know that Coupons.com has just described its system in a misleading way in order to convince the court that its software really is copy protection rather than use protection, claiming: "The features block an individual computer's access to a particular coupon offer altogether if that computer does not have the proper registry keys in place." In other words, there is copy protection that blocks access if the registry keys are missing.
That claim may sound a lot like copy protection, but that's not actually how their system works. Coupons.com doesn't block access to its coupons based on a registry key -- because if you don't have a registry key, Coupons.com simply issues you new one. And that's not how copy protection usually works; that's how usage protection works. If the system worked the way it was described to the court, then first-time users, who would not have the proper registry keys, should not be able to use Coupons.com because they would be blocked from accessing coupons. But Coupons.com doesn't do that to new users -- all users without registry keys are simply given new keys (and not blocked whatsoever).
Basically, Coupons.com appears to be pretending that its software doesn't work without a certain registry key in order to convince the judge that its software actually qualifies under the DMCA as copy protection. But, if it were copy protection, then Stottlemire's programs (or written instructions) for how to defeat the software by deleting the registry key wouldn't work. All Stottlemire's method of "circumvention" would do is trigger the copy protection to deny access. So, either Coupons.com is lying to the judge, or Stottlemire's program and instructions couldn't have done what they claim it did (in which case he wouldn't have broken the law). So... basically, it sounds like Coupons.com is either lying or they have no case. And, if they're lying, they don't have much of a case either.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: copy protection, coupons, dmca, john stottlemire
Companies: coupons.com
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Fighting over Coupons? You got to be kidding me.
This is total bullshit for what may amount to $1.00 off a frozen dinner. Give me a break! Isn't there something better to quarrel about during a recession?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Fighting over Coupons? You got to be kidding me.
If it were your business where you sold some kind of service, wouldn't you be pissed off at all at the potential of losing money?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Fighting over Coupons? You got to be kidding me.
errrr, maybe i mistunderstand your post, but the point of coupons is to drive business, doof. you cant just string together 10 $1-off coupons and get a $10 item for free - the business makes the $9 based on the premise that MORE people buying at $9 is better for them than less people buiying at $10 (for a limited time).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Fighting over Coupons? You got to be kidding me.
You're complaining about the morality of printing out multiple coupons. That article is pointing out that, regardless of morality, the guy didn't break any law in disclosing the information.
If this was your company, you should be pissed. The company released deficient code that doesn't properly lock the customer in as intended. In other words, it's the company's fault, not a consumer's. Covering up bad programming with legislation is a complete misuse of the law.
You might believe the guy is morally wrong, but being morally wrong isn't necessarily against the law.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yeaah Streisand Redux
There have been times when the printer malfunctions, but coupons.com, in their infinite wisdom, won't let me reprint the coupon that didn't print the first time. Their customer service is no help either. Sorry, Charlie. You don't get bread with one meatball.
Now I know the secret. Thanks a million, coupons.com.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yeaah Streisand Redux
What is the secret?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
People still use Coupons.com?
Regardless of that, wouldn't it be easier to just take a screenshot of the coupon and print THAT multiple times, rather than messing with the registry?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: People still use Coupons.com?
The response I received was polite and to the point, and I printed it out (I'm such a geek) so I could carry it with my coupons. I was told that at least as far as Kroger stores, internet coupons are accepted. The only thing they won't accept are printed out coupons for free products, which is understandable, because of the potential for fraud.
If you feel sufficiently motivated, you might email customer service or call corporate HQ for the last store that gave you the problem. It was worth it to me to spend the extra few minutes, as my family relies on coupons, and really, I wouldn't hack coupons.com registry just to print out extra. It's just hilarious that now I know how to do it, thanks to their bonehead lawsuit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: People still use Coupons.com?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: People still use Coupons.com?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Save the page
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Or just print to PDF
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Staying on subject
In response, the company makes false and misleading statements in the latest complaint they filed with the court.
Forget for a moment that its about coupons and ask yourself, "Why is the company so desperate that they have to lie to advance their claim against a pro se litigant?" Is their case that weak?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
coupons.com
I know you're probably all LOL!
Lacey
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: coupons.com
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: coupons.com
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Frankly, no one cares if YOU print out an extra copy and go buy an extra can of peas. It is about RETAILER fraud. The retailer gets reimbursed the face value plus a handling fee. Without protection they could cheat, print out hundreds or thousands of extra coupons and turn them in for the cash.
That is also the point of the unique bar codes. If a cheating retailer made 100's of photocopies they would be detected and civil/criminal action could ensue.
If the security is compromosed then the brands would no longer participate and that's the end of the business.
THAT is why this is a big deal to them.
Oh and FYI - Most stores DO have printable coupons (from a different company, but same concept) on their websites, meaning most DO accept them. But sometimes the cashiers are clueless.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: #12
Anyone against this (unless the coupons are for FREE products) is probably a shill for coupons.com
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: #12
And trust me, I'm not a shill for coupons.com.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: #12
Trust me, PDFs can capture anything, if you know how it's done.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: #12
The coupon is NEVER DISPLAYED on-screen. There is no way for Adobe to intercept a 3rd party application that prints directly to your PRINTER without ever providing the option to print to PDF.
Try the program before you open your mouth.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: #12
Perhaps you should learn a little about how software works. The software is not printing directly to your printer, hence the need for computers to have printer drivers.
K thx, go back to ur cave.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: #12
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Preventing multiple prints for a coupon
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
So?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
An update.
Hoepfully, they won't get away with this.
-john
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: An update.
I'm really curious what kind of idiot programmers wrote the software for this company. Didn't anyone happen to think "What if they just delete the registry key?" Seriously, it could hardly be more obvious to anyone who understands how their system works, it seems like it is either the fault of the project manager or the engineers who designed the system that it's broken, not the fault of the person who was able to get around it. When was the last time the DMCA actually did ANYTHING good?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oh, now that's just plain weird.
Make a DCMA case:
Someone borrowed a cup of milk from me and never paid me back.
One, two, three,... Go!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
coupon printer workaround. So sue me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: coupon printer workaround. So sue me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: coupon printer workaround. So sue me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: coupon printer workaround. So sue me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Further the software does not fully uninstall and leaves various registry keys/files behind. The names of which are made to look like legitimate windows registry keys/files, hence coupons.com are deliberately making it hard to find and remove them manually.
What coupons.com are doing is simply bad practice (there are better ways) and when someone rightly shouts about it or does something about it they try to lie and sue. Not a nice company.
This software shouldn't be carrying the Truste, Verisign etc logos!
More info: http://www.benedelman.org/news/082807-1.html
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Coupons ROCK!
I like http://couponsearcher.blogspot.com. What I do is use that site to search for everything I want to buy before I go shopping and it saves me tons of money. Can’t beat that!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://www.h22h.com
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Coupons.com is BS
i was going to install the software and i was kinda skeptical about printing a coupon with an installed software so i started thinking this must be a malware, adware, privacy invader, you name it.
Then came across to this. I'm definitively NOT installing it.
Too much bs for nothing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's easier than you think...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It's easier than you think...
Thanks!
Jason
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It's easier than you think...
Thanks!
Jason
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
didn't work
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Try this as an idea
If it records data I am sure that it is either using the MAC address of the network card along with computer name to create the special barcode. A simple but painful solution is to install VMWare n a WIN 7 box. Create a new XP Pro installation w/SP3 before launching VM session change the MAC address of your NIC, Launch VM Session, print coupon. Close out of VM software - Rechange your NIC MAC address back to original restart and repeat. I have never used coupons.com but if indeed they are recording this information then maybe this will bypass this problem. Any thoughts?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Blocking PDF print spooling
I've been a web developer for 18 years. They should be allowed to do block anyone. They claim within the print of it a copy protection takes places. That is retarded. The item is already on their server. Users are just calling to it.
This is outrageous. Not a lot of real people are going to do any misusing of coupons. We are all feeling the crunch and should be allowed to print electronically to file. Saving space and room in homes....Duh
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Blocking PDF print spooling
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
As this is my first post, it's in effort to prevent users like me from wasting several hours - of downloading and OS and installing a virtual machine to get an error machine.
Coupons.con software recognizes a virtual machine and gives you the error "Coupon printing is not permitted in a virtual environment."
To note, I used Hyper-V. Maybe it's easier to someone modify Hyper-V to disable virtual machine emulation detection then to directly hack the coupons software.
Just food for thought.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
its easy to bypass limit
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: its easy to bypass limit
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Easy to catch and print the spool job
2nd, go the spool and copy the .SPL file. That's the coupon waiting in queue before it gets flushed. Its usually in the C:\Windows\system32\spool\PRINTER\ folder.
3rd, use an SPL View program to view and print the captured SPL file. I use SPL View from lvbprint.de website.
4th, 'resume printing' the dummy printer to flush out the print jobs.
I usually print a whole bunch of coupons on the 'paused' printer, then copy them when I'm done since the spool will not empty them until they've been printed ala 'resume printing'.
FYI... printing via virtual machine is easy as well. Its a just registry setting that the installer looks for when it is first run. HKLM\System\CuurentControlSet\services\Disk\enum and remote the word 'virtual' or 'vm' from this key.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
spool
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fake Note Detector
http://rabbitautomationindia.com/
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
New Users
[ link to this | view in chronology ]