Microsoft Plays Practical Joke On People To Convince Them They Like Vista
from the talk-about-getting-desparate dept
It's no secret that Microsoft has a bit of a problem on its hands concerning the general public's impression of Microsoft Vista. The fact that people regularly joke about "upgrading" to the previous OS version, XP, is clearly an issue for the company. So what did it do? Apparently, it played a bit of a practical joke on people, getting them to play around with Vista, while pretending it was an early version of the OS that will come after Vista. Microsoft was clearly trying to get quotes out of people about how cool it looked -- and the company carefully made sure to get users of a wide variety of operating systems (Mac, Linux, Windows XP and Windows 2000, according to the site). While it might come across as a neat little publicity stunt, it does give you a sense of just how bad Microsoft's initial marketing campaign was. In order to make up for it, the company had to trick people into trying out Vista. Ouch.
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Filed Under: operating system, practical joke, vista, xp
Companies: microsoft
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Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
You got statistics to back up your story?
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
Seems to me that GA Tech needs to get more in volved with educating people than letting you guys do beer bongs
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This sounds like...
1) Microsoft has decided that "Vista is great, its just perceived as shitty" is the way to re-market Vista.
2) Step one: gin up some bogus "Dishwashing liquid? YOU ARE SOAKING IN IT!" survey, that supposedly proves this point, even though they give no real details about it, except for the smug "Gotcha" conclusion.
3) ?
4) Profit.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Vista sucks
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looks pretty, but looks are everything
Do a search and you'll find MANY unbiased, third party tests that all say the same thing... Vista looks pretty, but looks are everything. When you want to actually DO something other than LOOK at the computer, you're going to want XP.
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
I despise vista. It continually aggravates me.
I hate the way every setting I was used to has moved for no apparent reason.
I hated the resource-gobbling extra crap that was enabled by default. Now that I've disabled most of it, system performance is ok. Of course, it pretty much looks like XP, too.
I hate the teeny-tiny start menu program list stack panel. Stack panels suck, especially if you have to scroll to find stuff. The expanding program list from XP was MUCH better for finding things except you can't even switch to that in vista. You can switch to the 2000 start menu, but I prefer XP's.
I hate the explorer search. I literally almost drop kicked my laptop across the room when it couldn't find any files matching *.doc underneath a folder even though I knew there were many there. (Yes, there's got to be a way to make this work, but it should work out of the box and I'm an impatient, cranky, old man.)
Did I mention the performance sucks?
I hate the emphasis on making things pretty and whiz-bang instead of useful. I think MS was really reaching for reasons to buy a new O/S since they keep getting slapped for bundling. There's really nothing new here that's very useful IMO.
Oh yeah, and I hate office 2007 as well and looking for that somewhat-rarely used function on the toolbar. Where is it? Somewhere in the massive screen-real-estate grabbing 'ribbon' thing amongst the jumble of text, icons and random crap. Have fun finding it. Drop menus & toolbars were just fine. Why change them?
XP never blue screens on me, performs reasonably well (for Windows) and has everything where I expect it to be. I'll probably switch to linux once XP becomes obsolete.
All this is opinion, of course, so if you like Vista, then fine. I just wanted to point out that people do actually exist that have used vista and hate it.
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
Part of it is Microsoft's fault. They created a huge, bloated OS that requires 1GB of RAM to run smoothly, then told resellers than a system with 256MB of RAM could be marked as "Vista ready." Many of the fixes for "problems" were hardware upgrades to brand new computers that could not support the OS they were running. Personally, I do not see any compelling reason to "upgrade" to a more bloated, resource-hungry OS when XP runs perfectly stable on my computer and does all I need it to do.
The other half of the problem lies with the hardware manufacturers. Unfortunately, driver support for Vista was slow to non-existent. Owners of nforce2 boards, which are older, but not nearly old enough to be called obsolete, learned that no driver would EVER be available for Vista. A number of printers less than a year old at the time of Vista's launch have never received a Vista driver. Though all new hardware is well-supported, those with older hardware are out of luck.
Part of the success of XP was that the stability advantage of 98/ME was a compelling reason to upgrade older systems. That just is not the case with Vista because most older systems either do not have the power or the driver support to run it.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
Bill you should consider enrolling at Tech (if you could get accepted) and learning how to tweak and cater Vista for one's computer performance and capabilities.
Though it is not ideal to have to tweak an OS from its default condition, but I run Vista fine on laptop after a few adjustments.
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....
Are you insane?
The only people I know that are actually negative about Vista, are people that have tried, HARD, to use it, and have ended up going back to XP.
I should not have to wait 10 mins for my computer to restart, or shutdown.
I should not have to have 3 gigs of memory completely occupied, and the entire computer unusable, just because I left my computer on a couple days..
I leave my XP machines and Linux machines on indefinitely, and RARELY ever feel like I have to reboot.
My Vista machine? If i don't reboot it every two days, it will force me to, by locking up applications constantly.
Also, I shouldn't need to provide authorization 4 times in a row for something I clicked on myself. (And should not have to disable everything to get around it.)
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
From a support perspective, I have to agree -- what a nightmare trying find things in the needlessly rearranged menus and restructured filesystem. I'm not saying that XP is the be-all-end-all for anything but please MS, make up your mind where things will live and what they'll be called and then stick to it!
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this *CORRECTION*
"...stability advantage of 98/ME..." should read "...stability advantage *over* 98/ME..."
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
Runs fast and after SP1 I noticed an improvement on file transfer rates.
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Re: Vista sucks
That's not vista's fault, sounds more like your software is buggy. My vista boots up faster than my XP and my outlook isn't wierd.
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Now, you first year students who hail Vista as the second coming might take a breather and take a look back in history.
XP is by far the best OS ever produced for home users by Microsoft.
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Vista is actually pretty friggin' nice
Its just popular to bash Microsoft and especially to bash Vista. It's not a bad operating system. In fact, if it was released back then as it is now, it'd have no publicity issues whatsoever. Its only people who used it *then* that are speaking badly about it. Yea, it had a rocky start and it kinda sucked... but its not bad anymore.
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Re: Vista sucks
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
That explains soooo much...
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Here's an anecdote
On the other hand, I use Zone Alarm Suite on my XP machine, and it handles security nicely, and it lets me tell it to remember my choices. I bought a iMac for the family, and it's faster than my XP machine and the LAF is fantastic and fast.
I don't hate Vista, I haven't tried Vista, and I will do whatever I can to avoid using Vista. XP (with a couple add-ons) and OS X are simply better OS's.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
When somebody says, "performs reasonably well (for Windows)," you'll never actually please them with a Windows system until its running a Linux kernel. In their eyes, if it doesn't take a PhD to get a piece of hardware running.
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Re: Re: Vista sucks
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For anything much more resource intensive than that, you'd better have a top of the line rig.
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Re: Re: Vista sucks
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Vista
And correct me if i am wrong here but isn't it the hardware manufacturer's responsibility to produce drivers for any OS?
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98 to XP saw the functionality of plug and play work for the first time.
XP to Vista........ ok, it's shiny...... I guess I'll go buy a Mac or install Ubuntu instead.....
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
I have to honestly say that for it being a Microsoft product it is one of the most intuitive packages I have ever worked with. Things are where you EXPECT to find them, or they are easily searched for. No bugs and I cannot even claim the driver problems because all my hardware worked from day one.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
The speed went from horrible to terrible. And people think it is the way it's supposed to be just because it improved.....
It's still in the grand scheme of things a terrible OS.
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I am NOT in the same boat with Vista however.
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vista is crap, but congrats for making your 50cents buddy
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Re: Re: Re: Vista sucks
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
[fail]
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it works
Vista works ok - the interface is annoying - yep they moved everything. But on the single PC I have that has it installed it runs just fine (64 bit sp1). Is it as stable as XP? perhaps not. Am I having constant problems with it? Nope.
As near as I can tell Vista got a worse rap than it deserves (just as Macs get a better one), except for the stupid interface changes. But then they've got to have something to put on the new improved MCSE tests for those who bother with such tripe. Testing is a revenue stream too.
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Re:
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Re: looks pretty, but looks are everything
Notice how Vista SP1 equaled or bettered anything XP did?
XP is nice and all but the requirements for Vista are blown out of proportion. Just this morning I checked my System Monitor, I was using 800MB of my 4GB of RAM, and guess what 130 of that was Firefox, and another 80 was iTunes. I get an improvement gaming in Vista and I haven't bothered to tweak the install since I built my new computer.
The security features are nice in Vista, and the UAC is not nearly as bad as most people would have you believe. It is annoying the first couple days when you are installing all your apps but after that it is a nice extra layer of protection.
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Re:
Wow, where did you get your hands on a 72,000rpm drive???
Link please! I must have it!!!
(sarcasm free of charge)
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There is nothing wrong with Vista
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
Admittedly it does better after SP1, but still needs a ton of work
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Re: Re: Vista sucks
The boot speed is about the same on either, and Vista is WAY more visually impressive. Especially with Ultimate. It is much easier to navigate networking drives, thumbnails are shown for every picture/movie file, and the start menu has a box where you type the beginning of a word and it automatically shows you files or settings that begin with those letters. Not like that cumbersome and practically useless XP search.
And when you highlight a file in explorer, it automatically shows you relevant information (free space, file type, artist, size.. whatever applies to that type of file). And when you click "end task", it ends the God damn task. XP just pretends it didn't hear you. Did I mention only 1 BSOD in over a year?
If you are running an old, crappy, out of date machine that uses old hardware then those manufacturers don't always come up with a Vista-compatible driver, but who's fault is that? Just buy a halfway decent computer with hardware less than half a decade old and everything will work out fine.
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Vista > XP
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win2k
The OS should be a solid platform for the software you need to run, that's it, period.
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Vista ain't that bad
-Privileges dialog is too intrusive and generally isn't very useful (they should look at the Ubuntu or Fedora versions for how it should be done)
-Blu-ray support is flaky at best (I've just gone to ripping them all first)
-System reqs are a little extreme
In reality Vista is nothing more than a Serious update to XP Pro with a bit of added security.
I personally avoid the apple OS like the plague mostly because the DRM of the Itunes environment and that it just feels like linux with something missing (all real user control)
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
Not that I was complaining before.
I mean my brain is not afraid to learn new things. It only took me a few days to get used to the new file structure and interface.
People are just big babies. Go buy a mac if you don't like it, have fun swinging from Jobs ball sack while your at it.
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people think vista sucks, that means it sucks.
MS is still high from the days when people camped out for windows 98 and is still trapped in the delusion that they can do no wrong.
it's a different world now. the great unwashed masses have had computers long enough to be comfortable with them, and with the internet, so they are a much harder sell for a new version of windows than in the past.
in the past, people got the latest version of windows with their first computer so they could finally get online. back then people didn't know any better. that's changed a bit.
while they may still not know any better, they are reluctant to change and vista is not compelling enough to overcome said reluctance.
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It is ok if you tame it
I agree with the fellow who pointed out the tweaks and adjustments moved for no apparent reason, it is like entering a foreign land, but the determined will persevere. The point being that if you want to sell a lot of them, why put yourself in a position where only the the advanced user will tackle the task. Had this been evolutionary rather than revolutionary, it would have been well accepted, XP is a little long in the tooth. But as it is most will throw their hands up and back step. I went for the gusto with my personal Vista machine, dual core chip, 4 gig of ram + a 4 gig flash ram in a usb port, 512m PCIe card, and after disabling most of the annoying power robbing stuff it runs as well an XP Machine with 1 gig ram. The learning curve was nearly vertical, but I can call myself an advanced user now. I highly recommend Vista Smoker, it does a lot of what I learned to do the hard way.
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Vista ins't bad at all!
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also it is a 10 minute demo, hardly enough to find the real problems. compounded with the idea that these people don't know their OSes well enough to notice Vista when they see it and the result is a misrepresentation of people's problems with vista.
my laptop came with vista. I had it for two days, it took me over an hour to hook it up to my wireless network (the solution? turn off all of my wireless security, then re-enable it after I connected). that was just one of my complaints, but I couldn't stand feeling the hand-held-are-you-sure-you-know-what-you're-doing? that it constantly gave me, it is what made me turn to Linux as my primary OS (I had only used it as a secondary OS in the past) and among my various computers, only one has windows on it now (mostly due to using Linux in a specific scenario or having problem reinstalling windows for one reason or another).
and no I don't hate microsoft or windows, I just dislike vista and plan to upgrade my windows computer to Server 2008 (currently has server 2003). I find the server line to be better (with less bloat too) than xp or vista while still allowing everything that they do.
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People who complain about how settings have moved just need to grow up and stop fearing change. Yea, I still have a hard time finding the equivalent of "Add/Remove Programs" because of the change in name, but it isn't enough for me to hate the OS. Change happens, get over it and adapt.
My computer runs for days at a time without rebooting, without any memory problems. I have never had a problem with drivers or anything, and I enjoy the aero glass feel.
I guess it is just a matter of opinion, but I do really think that tons of people have this preconceived notion to hate Vista ... like kids and lima beans or something.
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Practical Example
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Beside the point.
Vista may or may not suck. It really depends on what you do and what your needs are. Monopolies however definitely suck.
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Re: to andy
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
Why not, you purchased a poorly written piece of software.
You should be complaining. If you buy a race car that can't go faster than 50mph you will be in a fit of rage.
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
People "hate" it for these reasons:
- It's a drastic change in interface with little to no real day-to-day benefit.
- It's a drastic change in requirements with little to no real day-to-day benefit
- It's a drastic change in price/cost with little to no day-today benefit
- The artificial market created by making 6 different version with different featuresets confuses people, creates a support nightmare.
- Third-party compatibility issues really are Microsoft's fault. Why was the API changed so drastically? Why is backward compatibility that hard?
It's not a "zomg Vista is unstable" issue. That's a strawman argument.
If you use other OS's, you'll know that OSX is a drastic interface change that offers a lot of benefit. Apple worked hard on backward compatibility as well. Compositing on Linux desktops has added a lot of extra features without drastically changing the interface and moving menus around, and yet my nVidia drivers for Linux are still compatible, and the requirements haven't changed a whole lot.
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Re: Re: to andy
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
Now a friend of mine has a computer whose boyfriend installed Vista on it, and asked me to try and get a wireless card to work, as she couldn't get in touch with that so called boyfriend. Well, I'm one of those who haven't used Vista yet, and probably won't until I'm forced to. Hell I was like that with XP also. But I'll tell you what, it was easier to learn how to navigate Ubuntu than to learn to navigate Vista. OH AND GUESS WHAT?!?!?!? I could not get the wireless PCI card nor my USB wireless adapter to work with Vista, no drivers for either. But guess what, they both work with Ubuntu and XP!
Moral of the story..,
The only way anyone is going to get me to use Vista, after that experience, will be because an application I need to use requires it, or my company switches to it. Until then Microscrap can keep it.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re:
I work as a network engineer at a bank and Vista hasn't been any serious consideration to this point. It usually takes a 3 minute conversation to push out any thoughts on migration.
XP works flawlessly after having been worked to perfect stability and functionality over the last decade or so.
There simply is no need or reason to go through the hassle.
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Re: There is nothing wrong with Vista
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Folder Views
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
Obviously, your job in IT doesn't have anything to do with budgeting or finance.
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I actully like Vista.
My next question is how many days since you've last had to reformat your PC running XP due to malware/adware? Did you loose those family photos and documents that you forgot to backup?
Hate to say it, but I actually like Vista. Haven't had any adware or spyware infect my computer since installig it nearly eight months ago. I spent more time fighting adware and spyware on XP than actually using it.
I'd rather be repeatedly prompted from security confirmation dialogs in Vista then being prompted by the latest malware ad popups from within XP. You know the ones (Your computer has been scanned and determined to be infected with this laundry list of of security threats. Would you like to clean it? First, You much purchase a full copy of this ill-legitimate program, that you never actually installed in the firstpalce, to disinfect).
Most times you can't disinfect XP from these and after spending countless hours of looking for a solution, through forums, searching windows registry, to rid XP of malware and end up with no solution but to re-format and re-install XP. Windows XP has been the least productive environment to me due to the adware/malware problems and I prefer to use Vista so that I can keep my sanity.
If I hadn't the need to connect to the internet then XP would do just fine. But since the internet is part of my daily life, I'll stick with Vista because it is more secure and less frustrating by not having to reformat.
I can trust returning to a non-infected computer running Vista after my teenagers have gotten on it to visit myspace.
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Vista
a) get a life
b) move out of your parents' basement/trailer
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Vista
I average a minimum of 2 BSOD's a day.
I Hate Vista so much I am finally going to go to Linux, since MSFT is going to stop supporting XP.
Imho Vista is worse than Mellinium. But not by much.
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Vista
I average a minimum of 2 BSOD's a day.
I Hate Vista so much I am finally going to go to Linux, since MSFT is going to stop supporting XP.
Imho Vista is worse than Mellinium. But not by much.
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Re: Vista sucks
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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XP > VISTA
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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I call Shenanigans!
It was a bomb, 75% of the promised features were dropped to get it out the door WAY later than promised, and that's the way it is. I'm glad you are happy, but there are a LOT of people who know it sux and say it sux, so it sux.
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THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HATE VISTA DONT FEED IT WHAT IT NEEDS
I have Vista on my laptop and my desktop. My laptop is an Inspiron 1501 with a AMD64 Turion X2 and 2GB of RAM and an ATI mobility card with 128megs.
I have Vista Ultimate x64 installed on it and I have no performance issues with the eye candy turned on other than an 80 minute battery, which is to be expected.
I have 8GB of RAM, 2 8800GT with 1GB (!), Q6600 Intel quad core 64 bit processor and an Asus Xonar D2X. Also running Vista Ultimate x64 with all the eye candy on.
That machine has two problems. First, Goldrush on TF2 causes a crash every other update. NO OTHER Steam games have any crashes or issues. Hell Doom2 in DOSBOX runs great.
Second, the sound drivers for the Xonar suck. Horribly. All my 'issues' are related to that sound card. The drivers are the only complaint anyone has with that card, and its a common complaint.
When it works, its worth its money. When it freaks out (all my sound coming out of my right speakers sometimes, or arbitrary channel switching) it sucks. Again, nothing to do with Vista as this happens to people on XP.
If you have Vista Ultimate x64, FEED IT. If you don't have 2GB of RAM and a DX9 video card (any will do) you won't be able to use Vista effectively.
This does bring up something else though. What about Home Starter, Basic, and Premium? I cant speak for Premium, but for Starter and Basic it seems Microsoft has intentionally crippled the OS.
My laptop came with Basic. It's performance was just as bad as everyone raves. Curious after seeing a co-worker with a comparable laptop on Ultimate x64 I installed my desktop copy on it. Cranked all the settings up and its flawless. I can even play TF2 without impacting the graphics settings on my laptop.
So Vista sucks, unless you have the hardware and the Ultimate version. Just like many people thought XP home sucked compared to Professional (least people I know).
All that Vista defending said, I'm so getting Debian on my laptop. Vista is nice and all but Compiz-Fusion is way too fun to play with and I don't dual boot.
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Vista == BAD?!?
Vista is definitely eye candy. In my experiences as IT support I make the following declaration. If you are a standard user Vista is fine. If you are a super user VISTA blows. Nothing is where it has resided FOREVER. The annoying security nonsense it pure stupidity.
So you can hate vista all you want but you either use it or use another OS. Those are your choices and if you knee jerk reaction is " doesn't run" then shut and use vista if on the other hand your main concern is MS Office for productivity because your corporate entity sold its soul to MS years ago then you have plenty of options. Linus, Solaris, Unbuntu, OSX. All are great slick looking interfaces with either great office analogs (OPEN OFFICE) or actual version of MS office to use.
So if you hate make changes to avoid the object of your hate. Personally I feel Vista is a bloated resource pig on a PC and the next version will only be worse. But it will include multi-touch so that should atone for its insufferable shortcomings.
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I do not have Vista. I will never have Vista. I am also a college student, and all of the freshmen who come into the dorms with their brand-new Vista machines inevitably end up complaining about them. They don't let me game. They freeze up all the time. Start-up takes too long.
Thanks, I'll stick with XP, and when I feel like upgrading, Ubuntu is a far better alternative.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re:
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Is it MS' fault that software critical to my job will not run on its OS? Yes.
I've upgraded desktop Windows versions five times in my professional life (WFW3.11-> Win95-> Win98SE-> Win2000pro-> WinXP-> Vista). When we upgrade from Windows version X to Windows version Y we should reasonably expect to see improved performance, new features that make is easier to get work done, and backwards compatibility. In the event I got many new hurdles and hoops that slow my work, noticeably degraded performance compared to XP on the same hardware, and critical software that is now broken. In four previous Windows upgrades I have not seen software break like that. For my purposes, Vista is Fail.
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Vista is fine
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Re:
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Long story short, I have not had a single complaint about Vista so far. Several how-to questions but the feedback that we are getting indicates that everyone is extremely satisfied with its ease of use and functionality.
Someone earlier said back it up with numbers… Well there are 500+ employees successfully utilizing Vista for well over a month with minimal Vista
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The same was said about XP
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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I agree with the first post and the other Vista lovers
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gimme a break
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what's the big deal?
If you don't like Vista, don't use it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. I myself do not use Vista, but my IT boss uses it and has no problems. (except with a certain version of VNC) My parents use Vista on their laptop and I haven't heard any complaints from them.
I have 3 computers at home, one running Kubuntu 8.04 with KDE4, one running a dual boot of XP/OpenGeu, and my daughters computer that runs Edubuntu.
Only 2 things kept me from getting Vista when I built my last pc. 1) I hate defragging a HD (don't have to with Linux)
2) The price.
but, like I said... if you don't like it, don't use it.
Simple as that.
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Stock
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: looks pretty, but looks are everything
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Vista Premium
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Vista is fine with me
The only annoyance was UAC but that was very easy to resolve. I also prefer the classic Start menu which was also easy to go back to. Vista also boots up very fast and I've never had any issues with compatibility. Gaming runs great too. Never had a BSOD on Vista... And you do know that BSOD is usually hardware related right?
I don't understand everyone who sits here and says Vista is crap... do you expect a "one-size fits all" OS and have 100% customer satisfaction?
If you don't like, don't use.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Vista runs well
By the time that Microsoft released Vista, it was quite good - but there were a lot of bad drivers. SP1 dealt with the most annoying issues (such as file copy speed) and the drivers caught up. Now, Vista works well, frequently on quite old hardware. I have 3 Vista systems at home. 2 are modern systems with 2 GBytes of RAM and Core 2 Duo processors. The surprising thing is that I have Vista Home Basic running on old Windows ME box that I had upgraded to XP. It has a 1.7 P4, 768 MBytes or RAM, an old nVidia card, and I had to replace the CD/DVD, network card, and sound card as drivers were not available). It is responsive for general browsing and application useage.
As for the complaints about UAC, I don't hit them frequently and I find that PCBSD's sudo popups for installation to be at least as annoying.
As you might expect, I don't allow my kids to run as administrator. They run as normal users.
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Tried it... Willing to wait for something better
Vista is a resource hog. I had Ubuntu 8.04 on this machine prior to installing Vista and really, there's no comparison as far as performance and general usability of the OS. Then again, you really can't make a comparison between the two platforms because one is so much more of a burden on your system's available hardware resources. I simply love Linux because it can run somewhat smoothly on just about any ancient piece of crap hardware you have laying around your workbench.
Before Ubuntu I had this laptop running on Windows XP Pro for a couple months. I have to say that the 2 major components I noticed a difference is were my Virus Scanner software and the Desktop / Laptop Backup Software. These 2 pieces really had a hard time playing nice with Vista although the versions I had installed were built and marketed as being XP and VISTA compatible.
About the only thing with Vista that I liked, and sorry if this sounds simple and juvenile, was the little "bread crumbs" functionality of the explorer address bar. I loved the fact that it didn't just show the full path of where you were going but more over it let you instantly click back to exactly the point you wanted to go back to. That's about the only feature that stuck with me. Not the Aero Desktop, Not the Side bar, and definitely not the fact (as previously mentioned) that simple little properties and functions of the OS management were moved to different places for apparently no real reason.
I give Microsoft an A for effort but think they still have some legwork to do before they can produce an OS and truly call it an "Upgrade" from XP.
Quick side note... bash me if you will but this is just my opinion nothing more! I'm not totally against Vista because hey, if it works for you then bravo, glad to hear it. I personally am willing to wait for the next iteration of what Microsoft has to offer.
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Re: what's the big deal?
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I Hate VIsta most of the time
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Vista is almost great
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Re: Re: what's the big deal?
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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regardless if the info is true that probably the best news MS could have gotten to market Vista
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: Re: what's the big deal?
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Re:
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
I make quite a decent living converting people's new machines over to XP from Vista because they hate it that much. The rate of converts hasn't gone down since SP1 either.
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A map depicting the struggle of Free and Open Source Software VS Microsoft
http://mshiltonj.com/software_wars/current/
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Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
I also think you aren't reading very well. He said he uses XP, and didn't seem to be complaining about it but you implied he was anti-M$. You don't have to be anti-M$ to know that Vista was not an improvement and to complain about it.
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Re: Re: what's the big deal?
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
Oh and I'm a computer tech too. Have my own business in fact. On that note it seems you don't know much about what's going on in the computer world. For a computer to be listed as Vista Ready a computer has to have at least 1 GiB of RAM. A Vista Capable machine has to have 512 MiB of RAM. Any computer that does not have these specs is not allowed to have Vista markings on the computer... any OEM that did so was breaking Microsoft's licensing terms.
But hey, don't feel too bad. Most "computer techs" have no more idea what they are talking about than 10 year old Timmy Mathison from across the street. At least you aren't the only one passing himself off as knowledgeable.
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Re: Vista sucks
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XP > Vista
I used Vista at work so I could get familiarized with the OS, but after two weeks of (3 days) dealing with hardware/driver issues, and (2 days) trying to make it feel like XP (as far as responsiveness and usability), I switched back.
This new Microsoft stunt wreaks of idiocity... don't they know that if they shower, dress, and give glasses to a donkey to make it look smarter, it will still be a freaking Donkey?
XP has come a long way, Microsoft just decided to let it go and start from scratch, Vista reminds me of Windows ME.... ewww!!! Yuk!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
http://edge.technet.com/Media/Windows-Vista-SP1-outperforms-Windows-XP-SP2-in-file-copy/
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links
http://edge.technet.com/Media/Windows-Vista-SP1-outperforms-Windows-XP-SP2-in-file-copy/
weep now plz.
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Re: XP > Vista
They actually extended the term for XP by a few months.
They also didn't just abandon XP, since it will be supported by MS until something like 2014.
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Vista Sucks
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
security.
"- The artificial market created by making 6 different version with different featuresets confuses people, creates a support nightmare."
It was a requested feature. And it's 4 "editions." With various sub-versions for 64bit vs 32 bit machines and OEM vs Retail. Something like 16 versions total if you wanna get technical. Oh and I've had no problem supporting them. For 99.9% of problems the edition or version of vista is irrelevant, as the symptoms and solutions is the same. If you take a little time to learn the differences between editions and take a quick run to system properties to get that info the rest is cake.
"- It's a drastic change in price/cost with little to no day-today benefit"
Price didn't really change... XP Home = Vista Home for price. XP Pro = Vista Premium for price. If your looking to save some money and don't need the extra features you can get Vista Home Basic, the cheapest windows since windows 95, or if your a business with special needs you can get Vista Business.
"- It's a drastic change in requirements with little to no real day-to-day benefit"
Many of my clients like features like the indexing service. And while the requirements have gone up, the cost of a computer to run it is lower than it was at XP's launch. So it doesn't really matter that requirements are higher. You can get a Vista Ready computer for $400 from Dell and never have a problem with it being slow.
"- It's a drastic change in interface with little to no real day-to-day benefit."
Many of my clients like the new layout better. They find it faster and more intuitive to use. Personally so do I.
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Vista is decent.
The revised user data folders all into AppData, under a single user directory is nice... wouldn't mind not having a bunch of ~/.* files/folders under *nix... it's similar enough though.
The new locations for "all users" data in windows takes some getting used to though. Many apps break because stuff is hardcoded, or uses ProgramFiles for application data, which is user specific in Vista.
Overall Vista is itself a step in the right direction. I think it could use some pruning. I was really hoping to see the mini kernel for windows 7, using hyper-V for sandboxed legacy apps though... not gonna happen. It's been better than my initial views on XP by a huge margin... I didn't see XP as really usable for daily activities until SP2...
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
So on their new server I installed Vista Business. At first the office worker, my client's wife, did not like it. However the computer remained rock solid stable and without spyware for the duration. She stopped complaining about it after about a week.
Recently they have attempted to do several new things with their server (streaming video to their website). As a result of using it as a workstation as well they had problems. I explained to the client that he really needed a separate machine for his wife to work on. He purchased a machine off of ebay running Windows XP (paid $150). It's a fine little machine for what she uses it for and I installed Firefox and Avast! AV to keep it clean. Two months in and she's all but begging me to convince Robert she needs Vista. She HATES XP now. I hear about it every time I come in to check progress on their new building.
*shrug* This combined with my own experiences and the mountain of misinformation I hear constantly repeated by people bashing vista tells me vista isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
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I feel the same way about OSX. Hey if it works, great. I like the fact OSX is based on FreeBSD. Pretty slick manuvering by Apple- using the FreeBSD code base. Add the Windows Emulator Wine and your complete.
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Re: Re: Vista sucks
By their very nature they are buggy. LOL
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Love Vista
Marketing is marketing, large companies use it some well some not so well, IMHO Apple has trounced MS in the marketing game and it's about time MS did something, anything.
What should they do instead just lay down and die?
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Microsoft's mistake
why the hell is that? mos of them run so slow, even when u play music on its Windows Media Players, it just plays it and stops and plays and renders it as if u're listening to the track online on a HORRRIBLE connection...
and the graphice are just too much for the RAM to handle, and most people are NOT literate enough about it to uprade the RAM like some of us...
Another main thing is that the whole structure of the operating system is different that most popular software and prigrams just dont work on it... no one would like to risk that!
i have several script-writing software, am a film-writer, and other media and several applications that are useless on Vista, i will not switch my system for the sake of Microsoft .. i will be a new laptop soon and will install XP on it and work around the drivers and all that crap, but i will not give up all my work and software for the idiotic mistake of a large company like Microsoft.
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Two points
The entire computing world has been raised and conditioned on the "File | Edit | View" menu system and now it's a ribbon? Huh? Why change? Were people getting confused by File > Save to save a file?
And after how-many years of teaching people "Click the Start Menu", the start menu is now a flag. How does this help new people when a tech support person says "Click the Start Menu" and the newbie has no idea what a start menu is.
Second, as I've said numerous times, the Vista "security" was doomed almost from the start. Here's the typical scenario:
Vista asks the user: Do you really want to install Photoshop?
User: Yes.
Vista: Do you really want to install Office.
User: Yes, come on already.
Vista: Do you really want to install Quickbooks?
User: Geez, just do it.
Vista: Do you really want to install Adobe Acrobat?
User: I swear, I'm going to kick you across the room if you ask me again.
Vista: Do you really want to install Trojan V32 Worm?
User: What did I just say? Yes- install it and let me work!
Is security an issue? Of course. But getting pestered by an operating system when you just want to work is annoying.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
The number of people just calling in to whine that they aren't familiar with the OS has immensely increased.
Statistically I see horrible problems with XP and a lot more often than with Vista. About the worst problem right now is people using Limewire since it's built with that old version of Java and it messes up explorer.exe and all kinds of stuff. But you shouldn't use that piece of trash software anyway unless you WANT corruptions and infections.
All-around, if you don't use legacy software that was coded badly to begin with, Vista is more than just fine, it's better than Windows XP.
A few key notes:
Computers these days are more than capable of running it, hardware wise, for the same price that old XP machines were.
XP is 8 years old and still has corruption problems. That is simply inherent.
XP is unable to use a Quad-core processor.
XP is limited to 32-bit OS and 3.37GB of ram because the XP64 isn't hardly compatible with anything, while on the other hand the Vista-64 is what all software designers are now going towards.
Vista has the hard drive live-indexed.
Vista has built in encryption
Vista has phenomenal troubleshooting abilities for networks and software. Trust me, next time your drivers go missing or your network messes up and Vista starts automatically fixing the problem, you'll thank it.
XP will not be supported anymore.
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Re: Re: Re: what's the big deal?
For one, it was attempting to compare "FAT" against "Linux". Huh? Linux isn't even a file system. It is an operating system kernel and it can be used with several different file systems, one of which happens to be FAT! See here for a list of some of the file systems Linux supports.
For another, when was the last time you saw Vista (or XP) installed on FAT? How about never? Yet you seem to think that Windows equals FAT. Hardly. Ever heard of NTFS?
Then it goes on to talk about how "Linux" spreads the files around on the disk. The article doesn't even specify which file system it is referring to. Well, I hate to tell you this but NTFS on NT/2000/XP/Vista does the same thing.
Now when M$ first introduced NTFS it tried to claim that it never needed defragmenting either. While it was certainly much better that FAT, people soon realized that the claim that it never got fragmented was a myth and defragmenting tools were then developed.
The truth of the matter is that most file systems suffer from fragmentation to some extent, even under Linux. But in the Linux world there are few tools to deal with fragemented volumes in-place. The usual way to defragment a volume on Linux is to copy the entire volume to another location, reformat, and then restore the data. It works, but it sure isn't convenient or even practical in many situations.
The claim that file systems never get fragmented under Linux is just a myth propagated to excuse the lack of tools to deal with it.
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Re: Re: Re: what's the big deal?
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
The settings were moved, so now it's time to re-learn them like you did when XP came out and you went from 98. Or like you did when 95 came out from 3.1. Microsoft does this with every generation of OS.
The resource grabbing extra-crap is enabled by default in XP too. Remember how it had indexed searches on? Also, when you buy a manufacturer computer they put their own trials on there that slow it down anyway. Since 90% of people buy manufacturer computers they'll have to optimize it anyway so it's peanuts compared to removing Norton 360 trials or getting rid of that ridiculous Acer e-software.
You can change the start-menu style to classic. The stack list is more optimal than the classic because you can't lose your place by accidentally hovering the mouse over a blank space.
The search works fine. Have you talked to a troubleshooter about your indexing problem?
Look at the features list for Vista. Built-in encryption, file backup, network automation, troubleshooter, live indexing, parental controls, optional glossy interface, ability to have movies as your wallpaper, performance increase with media and gaming-related software, DirectX 10 graphical interpreter. The list goes on friend.
Concerning office 07: that has nothing to do with the Vista OS but I'll say this, people complain about every graphical UI including adobe, fluxbox, KDE, and program manager from 3.1. Even the Mac OS UI pisses people off. You can't please everyone.
XP statistically BSOD's more commonly than Vista.
Most of what you said was opinion yes, except the part about it blue screening more, that's a flat-out falsity.
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CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo Conroe E6550 @ 2.33 Ghz
GFX: BFG Nvidia 8800 GT OC 512mb
PSU: 550w
RAM: 2gb @ PC2,6400 800mhz
***Windows XP Pro Service Pack 3 32-bit:
Higher speeds in network transfer
Higher speeds in hard drive writing/reading
***Windows Vista Ultimate Service Pace 1 32-bit:
(With Aero-glass enabled, with a 1MB dreamscene wallpaper, UAC disabled)
Higher performance with Adobe CS3 (all products)
Higher performance with Crysis on medium
Higher performance with all Orange Box games on highest
Higher performance with Call of Duty 4 on highest
Higher performance with World of Warcraft
Higher performance with FFXI benchmark test
Higher performance of general UI
Higher performance of Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007
***Windows Vista Ultimate Service Pace 1 32-bit:
(With all resource-using processes off)
Highest performance with Adobe CS3 (all products)
Highest performance with Crysis on high and very high
Highest performance with all Orange Box games on highest
Highest performance with Call of Duty 4 on highest
Highest performance with World of Warcraft
Highest performance with FFXI benchmark test
Highest performance of general UI
Highest performance of Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007
So as you can see, programs related to media, gaming, and office use had the best performance on Vista (and better on Vista with all disabled) and even general OS speed was higher. Note this is on the same machine with the same hardware.
XP greatly outclassed vista in Network file transfer and hard drive read/write tests. I'd have to say if the worst thing about vista is the speed it saves data, I'm not too worried.
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Re:
It's a compatibility layer.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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So What Do MS People think about Macs & Vista?
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Vista? How bout DOS 5.0
Seriously folks, you belt out the pedigree to prove how sharp you are, but you rant on the "man" (MS) like you are a bunch of hippies, whilst you churn out a living solving problems. To me, the more problems, the more you justify your existence., eh??
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Re: Getting annoyed by this
I have had multiple screens of death.
Meanwhile, my XP computer, on the same network, hums along.
So go ahead and get annoyed, Dan. You'll have a hard time getting as annoyed as I am with this OS.
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This is funny
All the machines are using the same hardware, HP DC7600 with ONE GB ram, onboard video and a 3ghz Pentium D chip. Vista runs great on this, it actually runs FASTER than an XP machine on the same hardware, which was something that pleasantly surprised me, to say the least. I was fully expecting it to be slower, it was when I was running the beta's but the official release of Vista Business was far improved.
UAC does bug me on occasion, but it has come in handy a couple of times, so I leave it on. Another surprise was that Aero actually works on this setup with onboard intel graphics at that.
I use Vista on my work desktop, XP on my work laptop (mainly just used for XP screenshots for documentation and emails, that's it).
At home, it is the other way around with Vista on my laptop (using an opensource battery manager, I get over 2 hours 20 mins battery life) and the only reason it isn't on my desktop is the lack of directsound which I need for DJ'ing.
I've worked with a lot of OS's in my time, Dos, Windows, Mac, Netware and unix, with a few flavours of Linux thrown in as well and I have found that I really enjoy using Vista, it is a change, something different.
SP1 has made it even faster, and I have NO problem recommending it to friends depending on their needs and hardware. Hardware being very important with this OS, given that not every manufacturer or model has vista drivers and they (non-tech/IT people) have had no problem with it, sure I get questions now and then, but no more than I get from any other OS.
Half the problems people are experiencing is hardware related and not MS's fault, the other half are the upgraders that didn't bother to clean their machine before doing so (seen that happen a few times), the rest I think are just dicks that went in with the preconceived notion that it was going to suck, and never really gave it a chance "this is gonna suck, (5 seconds later)yep this sucks, I wouldn't use this and I'm gonna tell everyone how bad it is" yeah... GTFO of my face and go DIAF assmonkey...
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This is no surprise.
When XP was released, I felt much of that pressure released. So much better than ME/2000, I was actually proud to stamp an approval on XP (despite knowing its problems). XP gives users much more flexibility than any other OS to make it their machine. Many tech users quickly found ways to streamlining the performance, unmatched by any other OS to this day.
Most users tend to be "web surfers" who utilize all the PC's power for internet usage. Photoshop? Hardly. The fact Microsoft pushes this "user friendly" version of the OS to these people was blatantly insulting to tech users, who knew from the start these fancy visuals meant performance cost.
I've tested Vista for 2 months and I am never, ever going to buy or recommend this product to anyone using their laptops in any type of professional manner, be that of graphics development or programming. I would, however, recommend it to mothers, grand parents, or anyone else not comfortable with computers.
Vista's 3 major target problems are:
1) Driver library - Incomplete and a massive performance hog. All drivers are back loaded into memory before being released (if ever) after finding the component hooked to the machine. Rebooting time increased.
2) "Pretty pictures" - anyone who uses their PCs for any type of development knows memory is critical. Background images, sounds, etc are key components to remove. Vista relies on them, unless physically turned off, which can not be done 100%.
3) Processing threads - Truthfully, I can not explain what the hell goes on with this and if anyone can enlighten me, please do so. But when applications hang, I expect only the thread I cancel to be affected, but in my testing, cancelling one thread affects others (while it doesn't close them, it sure locks them up!).
The only thing released by Microsoft in recent years worthy of its use (but still has a way to go) is ASP.NET. I've stopped using Office products because it's senseless when the web is not only easier, but much more user friendly.
Visual Basic/C hasn't been touched in years, again because web applications don't require individual installs.
IE sucks. It will always suck as long as ActiveX is supported.
It's been a fantastic process to build applications for people that don't need a Microsoft product to use, but I can't see myself giving up ASP.NET any time soon in order to deliver those applications.
As with everything Microsoft, a new release doesn't mean a better release, just one with more bells and whistles that screw everything else up.
Now I must wait to see how much ASP.NET 3 will follow the same path or if Microsoft actually listened to developers (doubtful).
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Re:
If its a basic office setup then you said it right. "Successfully utilizing Vista ... with minimal Vista"
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Re: Re:
(except on April first)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: looks pretty, but looks are everything
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Re: Here's an anecdote
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Re:
I remember hearing the same crap before, but it was slightly different, do you see the subtle change there?
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hmmmmmmmmm
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age
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
You, sir, are a moron.
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Re: Re: Vista sucks
If I build a PC with a set of swappable drives (which I have) and load Vista on one, XP on another and Server 2008 on another guess which ones load the fastest? (BTW all use the same software and hardware.) Hands down Server 2008 boots fastest (35 Seconds), then XP (40) and then Vista (90).
I am s Systems Tech from a Ski Resort and we have around 300 machines 1 uses Vista the rest are XP except the servers. I refuse to upgrade to Vista at this time same as IBM and Intel. Sure it's stable but at what cost? Total hardware replacement! It's not worth it and XP is not broke, it just finally got fixed.
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
I too have had the issue that Vista has stuff moved and renamed for no reason. Also it forces users to do what it wants, not what THEY want and have been happy with while using XP.
I can't seem to add it to my home network of xp machines, but what irritates the most, it is on the wifes new Sony laptop that does not have drivers available to go back to XP with it. I say go back, that means chronologically, not in tech superiority.
Than there is the control panel, with fixed large icons.
I told the wife not to get it, but she figured I could fit XP on to it. We gave away a new PC we bought last year to a relative rather than bother with the Vista on it.
I will be trying Mac once XP gets too unmanageable or if MS foul it up in some weirdo marketing move.
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Re: Practical Example
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Re: Re: Getting annoyed by this
And having a different computer running xp on the same network without problems only proves it's not a network issue... which is kind of obvious any way.
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About THAT OS
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