Bandwidth Caps Keep Getting Lower And Lower
from the don't-do-anything-useful dept
When Time Warner first announced plans to test out bandwidth caps, there was some talk that it might set the caps exceptionally low, such as 5GB/month for downloads. While Time Warner did eventually put in place a series of tiers, it admits that the 5GB tier is the "lite" tier for very basic usage. Don't tell that to the folks at Frontier. Reader Shea writes in to point out (via RochesterHDTV) that Frontier is now saying that 5GB of combined upload and download bandwidth is all you can use per month. If you go above that, Frontier reserves the right to "suspend, terminate or apply additional charges" for going over this "reasonable" usage.See how this works? At first, we're told that such tiers will only touch on those super high bandwidth users. Then we see tiers put in place where it's admitted that the 5GB limit is for "lite" users. And now, according to Frontier, it's "reasonable" usage, and it can kick you off -- or add unspecified fees -- for going over. Welcome to the world where doing anything cool or useful online is discouraged. ISPs are working hard to make their broadband offerings less and less useful by the day.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: bandwidth, bandwidth caps
Companies: frontier, time warner
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Break out the 1995 websites
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Break out the 1995 websites
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
While at work
While at home I am sure I have blown through more than 20.
Suspending people for using more than 5GB is BS.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: While at work
During the last year, my average was 49.7GB downloaded and 334GB uploaded each and every month.
All I can say is "FIOS, baby".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: While at work
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: While at work
When you download using a torrent, it's considered nice if you keep the torrent running to upload at least as much as you download. Since I have a 15Mbps symmetric connection, I feel I can give back more, so I set my torrent client to share until I am at least at 10:1, and only forcibly shut off the torrent after I am at 30:1.
I download TV shows that I missed recording, and assorted free software.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Some 'broadband' plans are 256Kbit/sec with 300Mb, counting uploads and downloads.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: aus broadband
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: aus broadband
@Derek Kerton - you said 'You can't switch from a moped to an Accord and expect to pay the gas station the same amount as before.'
I think it would be more aptly put to say the service providers have sold you a moped or Accord depending on the level of speed you chose, and said you could use as much fuel as you want. But then, they are now putting limits on it, and expecting people to just accept it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
bandwidth usage
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: bandwidth usage
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fight back
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wow, 5GB is 'reasonable'
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bad news
This, coupled with the DMCA, clears the field for other countries to take the worldwide lead in IT, and for English speaking developers to move abroad where they can create in freedom and live in a more advanced and interesting technological environment.
I just wonder where that will be?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
YouTube files ain't too big
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
- Windows updates
- Ubuntu distros (or any flavor of linux for that matter)
- Program patches
- Steam
- Itunes
- ...etc
You can blow 5GB in a day if you've got a lot to do, and you can do it quite easily. This cap is ridiculously and would have been so even at 1990's levels.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
That is very narrow minded thinking. More and more software is being delivered via internet, Microsoft automatic updates, steam video games, LEGALLY BOUGHT MOVIES, ITUNES, EMUSIC, etc.
Movies and apps are downloaded legally.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
No, this is designed to make up for piss poor network planning.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
Remember, it isn't just direct downloads, takes bandwidth for everything you browse on the net and it all counts towards your cap.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I have notified Time Warner multiple times if they go big with the caps they'll lose me to a competitor who isn't.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Been down this road already
All the metrics I've seen on this issue assume that you actually *want* all the traffic heading downstream to your IP. Unless the cable company is going to take responsibility for filtering out worms, spam, etc. (and they will have a financial motivation not to), this is an incorrect assumption. One good mass propagation and cable companies are going to see people freak out over the size of their bill.
Of course there is another side to this coin. I have to wonder how many of their high bandwidth users are actually 0wn3d systems which are part of a spam and/or DoS botnet. Putting the financial screws to people may force them to clean up their systems. It's amazing to me how often this traffic is mistaken for P2P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
An idea
5mb = 1650Gigs / month
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: YouTube files ain't too big
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: YouTube files ain't too big
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Just waiting for the other shoe to fall
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Just waiting for the other shoe to fall
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nowadays, my monthly traffic (according to my pfSense-based router) is between 300GB and 1TB. I shudder when I read about the US and Canadian ISPs and their bandwidth limits.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
True
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Typical American Capitalism
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bandwidth
Talk with your wallet. Get a new provider.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ISPs Have Us Over a Barrel.
Exceeding a low threshold just means you'll end up paying them more for using the same facilities that are in place. You may be able to get an unlimited plan for a while, but you'll just pay more for it. Maybe soon you will be able to a plan of unlimited usage between 1:00 AM and 6:00 AM when there are fewer people on, payment schemes like that are coming.
Switch to a different provider, nope, they'll all be doing that soon. It's the new pricing schemes. Get used to it, if you download more than the average person, you will pay more. Simple as that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Caps are not efficient
We need a more efficient approach to manage bandwidth. How about usage charges? My Gas, Electric and water providers all charge me per unit. If not, I might set my summer thermostat to 68 degrees and water my lawn continuously.
If folks want more bandwidth, they should pay.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Caps are not efficient
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Next step: marketing ops
"Sign up with Super Blazing ISP today and get unlimited traffic to our Preffered Network for 6 months" -- Preferred Netowrk = Amazon, Ebay, MSN, and other mainstream big $ websites.
They will, of course, also not count traffic to the big ad delivering networks as well so as to gain their support.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bleh
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Time to Switch to Time Warner!
Unfortunately in Rochester, NY there are 2 choices: CABLE via Time Warner or DSL via Frontier. Looks like it is time for everyone to switch over to Time Warner!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Time to Switch to Time Warner!
Well, not yet, but don't be surprised.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
For all of you talking about...
Instead they will (must) enter a symbiotic relationship wherein ISPs don't count bandwidth for ads, thus gaining the support of the (select) ad giants. It turns my stomach, but it's what will happen is bandwidth metering becomes reality.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
maybe it is true.
According to Rocky(CEO Teksavvy), not only does Bell want to throttle the wholesale clients, like Teksavvy(TSI), they also want to impart per-byte billing.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20805831-Bells-upcoming-plans-for-Wholesalers
the idea that TSI buys a connection to the internet from Cogent and Peer 1. They pay Bell 20$ a month per user, as well some other fees. +BandRate cost.
The wholesalers pay for there connection whether it is half-used or not. If they need more, they buy more.
Bell wants the Wholesalers now to pay per use, in there central office as well. So now the ''radical internet' that everyone relies on, now is now longer that. Would Googlebe a big if they had to deal with Usage based billing?
The video explains this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t89WwcsOj9U
The end of the video there is an Interview with Sir Tim Berners Lee(the gentleman who invented the Web). He has a few choice things to say as well.
This is the homepage that you need to register to get in.Its free. Relatively painless.
http://ipower.ning.com
This image explains it well.
http://ipower.ning.com/extensions/gfx/netneutrality.jpg
I assume you need there permission to re-use??
If this at all is true, this would explain the ridiculous capping that they are starting.
according to this article at techdirt: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080730/0128021832.shtml
A company in the USA that has decided to institute a 5GB a month cap.
"See how this works? At first, we're told that such tiers will only touch on those super high bandwidth users. Then we see tiers put in place where it's admitted that the 5GB limit is for "lite" users. And now, according to Frontier, it's "reasonable" usage, and it can kick you off -- or add unspecified fees -- for going over. Welcome to the world where doing anything cool or useful online is discouraged. ISP's are working hard to make their broadband offerings less and less useful by the day."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Whiners
The really great part is "Frontier reserves the right to '...apply additional charges" for going over this "reasonable" usage". So you could be sitting at home enjoying your day, reach into your mailbox and pull out a bill for $10,000. And that's when the fun begins, because then it's Lawyer Time.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WiMax and such was supposed to break the hard-wire bandwidth monopoly, but gee, it seems to be floundering for some reason...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
it would be OK
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I said hello, it's not about time, it's about data transfer caps in your new Acceptable Usage policy. She said "Hold on" and then her supervisor came on and said frankly he didn't know anything about it but would look into it and get back to me.
5Gb per month is insanely small if you rent or purchase any video. One movie is easily 1.2 or 1.5 Gb or more. Think about Gandhi or Lawrence of Arabia! One TV show is easily half a Gb. If you buy an old season of TV shows and download the whole thing in one or a couple sessions, you're looking at plenty more than this new 5Gb MONTHLY cap.
So how am I to know when I've hit my limit? My billing cycle was a week old when I bumped into the policy change information accidentally. I asked Frontier how I'm supposed to track my usage, are they providing special user tools or we have to fish around in the router pages? Or I'm just supposed to walk to the snailmailbox some morning and find out they're ditching me or have billed me some (so far unannounced) surcharge?
While this Frontier supervisor is "looking into it" I have time to a) revive my old dialup account with another provider and b) shop around for satellite. When my Frontier package is over, my only link with Frontier will be local landline service, period. If I didn't live in a deadzone for cells, I'd drop my landline as well.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nothing Wrong With Caps
Why do you suggest that a granny who uses email to write to 12 friends and family, and check weather.com once a day should be required to buy the same Internet package as Johnny McFacebook, who is a Skype supernode and spends his days watching movies which he then seeds on Bittorrent? There are definitely different types of customers, and they should be treated differently. Granny should pay less for less.
A sensible way to offer both of these consumers what they need is to sell granny a 1GB/mo capped service, and sell Johnny something bigger.
BTW, I disagree with you about 5GB. That IS a heck of a lot. No, not for you or me who work from home and are uber geeks, but for average users, this is much more than they transmit each month.
US ISPs are saying "OK, you pay $40 for the amount of Internet you use *now*, but if you plan on doing all the cool future things Masnick writes about, you may need to pay the piper and bump up your package someday." That's fair. You can't switch from a moped to an Accord and expect to pay the gas station the same amount as before. You use more, you pay more. That seems to be the model for other consumer goods and services: theatres, grocery stores, electric utilities, heating oil, watching a busker on the street, a repair call to your home, a massage parlor, etc. Why do you single out ISPs and say that its wrong for them to do what every other business does?
Oh, and I'm totally with you that they were misleading jerks for ever calling broadband packages "unlimited". They should always have been upfront about what customers get for how much $. But, of course, 'being upfront' is what is starting to happen, yet you are in opposition.
I'm going to tell you something you agree with: the real problem is that there is inadequate competition. The problem isn't the tiers of service, it's that as we go to tiers of service, the ISPs are gouging us instead of opening up a range of attractive segmented service options. But there isn't anything wrong with tiered services in and of themselves.
I liken your opposition with tiers to something which you often write about: abusing copyright law or the DMCA to stop speech which some find offensive. The complainants in these cases state they are opposed to copyright violations, when they are in fact simply opposed to what is being said. They are mis-aiming their wrath. Similarly, you are against ISP gouging of customers, and as such are taking aim at tiered and capped services. But you are missing the target. The tiers and caps are fine, the lack of competition is not.
And yes, I even agree that in our oligopolistic market, carriers will try to abuse capped services by leveraging their market power. But that doesn't make caps wrong themselves. A car can be abused, drugs can be abused, but cars and drugs arent 'wrong' themselves. The abuse is what's wrong.
Would you suggest we pass rules against caps and tiers as a way to mitigate this uncompetitive market? That's not like you. You, and I, are idealists who would rather attack the real problem - the lack of competition - and truly fix what ails US broadband.
Last point, you often write that caps will limit the growth of services on the Internet, because people will have to worry about being "nickel and dimed" if they go over their cap. Because of these limits, innovative services that are bandwidth hungry may never get off the ground. To that point, I say: Yes, that's true. But you can't take one input into a product (bandwidth) and arbitrarily declare the marginal price zero just because you want it to be thus! There IS a marginal cost to bandwidth, and innovative products and services that hog bandwidth deserve to be pushed back into the lab. The result may be a better version that is more bandwith conscious. We've both got econ degrees, so you understand the models here. I think you have just made a mistake in assuming that bandwidth is free.
We really just don't know the true cost of bandwidth in the US. I know it's more than zero, but the oligopolists at the helm no doubt are extracting monopoly rents right now. The only way to determine the real cost would be to create a competitive market, where MC = MR. Have a look at countries like France, where there IS ample broadband competition from aggressive new entrants like Free, and see that the price still hasn't dropped to zero!
Notes:
France Telecom 30eu for DSL, 40eu for naked DSL
wwww.free.fr offers a package of Net, TV, and Voip for 30eu
Derek Kerton
The Kerton Group.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Nothing Wrong With Caps
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
OPEC 2.0
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
5G caps = 2 dice craps
*hangs self on telephone wire/cable
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bad for Business
[ link to this | view in chronology ]