Andrew Cuomo's Blueprint For How Gov't Can Get ISPs To Censor Content

Lotus Adds Fake Engine Noise To Make Hybrids Sound Like Cars

from the is-it-april-fools-yet? dept

Thu, Aug 7th 2008 8:35am — Mike Masnick

There have been a few stories over the past few years about the fact that hybrid cars (or just plain electric vehicles) are somehow "too quiet." The complaint is that pedestrians and bikers who are used to judging the safety of a road by vehicle noise are now somehow in danger from these quieter vehicles. Even so, reading this story and seeing the related video about how Lotus has been experimenting with adding a speaker under the hood that makes a noisy engine sound certainly feels like an April Fools joke, or possibly a bit from The Onion.

No matter how many times I watch the video, I'm still not convinced that this is serious.

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Filed Under: blind, fake noise, hybrid cars, noise
Companies: lotus

121 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 8:40am

plane electric vehicles -> plain...
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Ron (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:00am

Stupid
My Prius does not have the "noise maker" but, if in the future, some f*cking idiot law is passed or even if the auto maker decides to incorporate such a "noise" system, I'll cut the wires. If pedestrians or bikers are using only their ears then they are not paying attention. Likewise, however, if the auto drivers are not paying attention to the road then they are dangerous, whether or not their cars make noise. Let's get back to some plain common sense!
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:03am

Such a 'feature' would kill a sale for me. If your car makes noise and your competitor's doesn't, I'm buying from them.
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mgallagher, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:04am

It is actually a problem for some...
Mostly blind people.

Due to some politics in the blind advocacy community, there aren't a lot of sight-impaired acoustic assistance devices at signalized crossings. The result is that they rely on the noise made by vehicles to determine when it is safe to cross. Believe it or not, this is actually pretty effective.

Hybrids and pure electric vehicles make that approach unreliable, and thus unsafe. You can argue the cost/benefit of the Lotus approach, but there is a problem they are trying to solve.
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Sierra Night Tide, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:08am

noise
Instead of noise why not just some not too annoying sound as you come upon a bicycle or walker on the street – a certain distance? This way the outside world can hear it but only when needed.

I wouldn't want constant noise either.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:08am

Seriously?
I think Simon's tie could use an artificial noise maker too.
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Should use Model T sound, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:23am

This is for real
Apparently this is being considered before congress. I also saw a link that Toyota offers an upgrade that will place the behind wheel speaker an noise generator for about $300.

http://technorati.com/posts/Ff67ZruxSLWI5aq7BqsiWsds%2FBGT2FqxvBp4Dpf3c84%3D
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:24am

"Self-propelled vehicles are to be led by a pedestrian, waving a red flag or carrying a lantern, to warn bystanders of the vehicle's approach." -- United Kingdom law, about 1880.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:25am

Better Solution
Put RF chips or something similar on quite cars and then equip blind folk's sticks, lance armstrong's bmx, and keds for walkers with their heads up their *** with receivers that will make their gear chime when a car is near.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:29am

Blind people need a new system
If more efficient/greener cars are too quiet for blind people to use their current technique to know when it's safe to cross, guess what? It's time for them to get a new system. They are the ones with the problem, they should be the ones trying to fix it.

The answer isn't making everything announce itself to blind people, it's to find a way for blind people to locate potentially dangerous obstacles and hazards. Something like a lidar device to allow them to gauge distance to objects out of reach, or maybe a kind of sonar device to locate large objects would, in the end, be much more practical. One tool for each blind person is alot easier and, to me, more fair than making everyone else who isn't blind work purposeful noise pollution into anything bug that moves.
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Ed, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:31am

I heard this complaint before. With the exception of blind people, I say "Didn't your mother teach you to look both ways when crossing the street?" People are lazy (me too for that matter). Forget IPods, and Phones, even without them, people just do not bother to look around when walking on a street. I would swear they are thinking "It is the drivers job not to hit me. I don't have to pay attention." It's the same with "Baby on Board" signs. I watch all cars equally, and all pedestrians, and bicyclists. But they have to watch for me also. It only takes one person to cause an accident, but frequently it only takes one person to avoid it also.

As for the blind, I see that white cane, and I am especially on guard to protect them, Prius or not. It is a moral obligation of the sighted to be considerate of the blind. But, if my Prius needs a noise maker constantly blaring, just in case I happen upon a blind person, then so does every bicycle out there. They are just as silent, and just as likely to cause injury. To my mind more so, since "some" bicyclists think of themselves as pedestrians, with rights to use the road, rather the vehicles, required to obey traffic laws.
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Russ, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:32am

I'd want mine to sound like a Ferrari Testarossa
I'd want mine to sound like a Ferrari Testarossa

Or an Indy Car.
With a button you could push to make the rev noise.
and I want it so my neighbors 3miles down the street can hear it LOL

I think if they gave you an Option of WHAT the car soundeded like it would be great...

Think about it? custom sounds?
You could make it sound like a Steam Engine car...

If this passes, I should go into business...

lol
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Big SUV, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:34am

I hate the Prius
Ususally driven by some pussy in the fast lane going slow. Get out of the fast lane with that little POS or I'll run you over.
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nunya_bidness, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:42am

Re: Stupid
I thougt people bought hybrids because they care about the environment and want to pollute less, and all that stuff. If you could make the world a little bit safer for pedestrians, wouldn't you want to do that too?
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Motorcycle ryda, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:43am

If drivers cant hear loud motorcycles what makes you think a little speaker system is going to make a difference.

Stupid is stupid.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:44am

Adding sound to quiet cars is a stupid idea all together. Business wise it makes no sense, since the people driving these cars are not gearheads looking for a thrilling engine growl anyway. Most of the people driving these cars value, to some degree, luxury cars. It is "luxurious" to have a silent car.

The second reason why this bad is a simple matter of Darwinism. Do you REALLY want to help the people too deaf to hear other parts of the car besides the engine? Do you REALLY want to help people to dumb to realize they're too deaf so that they open their eyes before wildly dancing into the street with their back to oncoming traffic?

And please after I bashed on people who are hard of hearing, nobody respond to this saying what about the blind, what about the retarded? I'll tell you what, in the world of Darwinism- they are priority #1.
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Noise Polution, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:45am

Blind People
So we want to make noise for a blind person who is not crossing at a proper crosswalk without a seeing-eye-dog?

Everyone else will just get used to not hearing the cars and it will be expected, like joggers wearing headphones expect not to hear a car.

hmm
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Chris Tromley, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:47am

Small but genuine concern, thoroughly muddled solution
If quiet cars are a problem, apply the solution to ALL quiet cars. Under many conditions (ie: steady throttle or coasting), there are many luxury cars that are every bit as quiet as full electric cars. Tire noise is the dominant sound. I know. I drive a battery-powered car, not a hybrid, every day. Prove it to yourself by standing at an intersection and listening to the Lincolns and Mercedes.

The discussion must shift from hybrids and electrics to noise level. If there is an attempt to mandate a noisemaker, I guarantee the discussion WILL shift, and the mandate will die. There is no way the luxury car buyers will put up with artificial noise as a required extra in their rolling living rooms.

The activists need to stop pointing fingers at whatever is new and different. Just use a dB meter. It's the only approach that makes sense.

I wonder if seeing eye dogs are trained to recognize an approaching car visually, by sound or both? Is this just a re-training issue?
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Yakko Warner, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:47am

I hate SUVs
Usually driven by some self-important SOB who can't be bothered to watch where they're going and thinks their all-powerful car gives them the right to take up two parking spaces.

Aren't generalizations fun?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:48am

Re:
Actually in every state it IS the driver's responsibility not to hit the pedestrian (blind or otherwise). Remember, pedestrians have the right of way.

Now with that said, my motto as a driver and as a pedestrian has always been, pedestrians have the right of way, but the smart pedestrian should get the hell out of the way.
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DHM, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:48am

Not just blind people
Consider - you're walking to your car in a parking lot, pretty near the backs of a line of cars (since you don't want to get run over by passing cars in the lot). A car one or two spaces in front of you starts their engine and starts backing out. I suspect most walkers rely on the engine noise to help detect this situation . The driver's line of sight to you is blocked due to the adjacent cars; ditto for your line to sight to see if there is a driver in the car. Also in bright sunshine the backup lights on the car may be hard to notice - and if the car is parked a bit further in that the adjacent cars, again you may not have a line of sight on the backup lights till it is too late.

Dead silence is going to lead to low speed collisions between the car and the pedestrian. By "low speed" I mean no damage to the car. The pedestrian will not fare so well. Some sort of noise - and it can be fairly quiet - is going to be needed. Possibly just when the car backing up (and no, I DON'T mean the high-pitched beep-beep-beep we currently get from trucks that you can hear 2 miles away).
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:48am

Re: I hate the Prius
Hey Big SUV, since you so obviously have the money to waste on the gas to have a lead foot in a gas guzzling vehicle, can I have some? I am not as rich as you obviously are. Was wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing some.
Oh wait, you refuse to share the road or acknowledge other peoples existence and think you somehow have a superior right to it. Why would you share money when you lack basic respect for others.
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pstdenis, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:49am

Re: Stupid
You have to consider blind pedestrians, I think they can make something that makes "sound" instead of "noise" that would alert pedastrians without being overly obnoxious.
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nunya_bidness, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:55am

Re: Darwinism
Do we really want to help people that are too stupid to write posts that make any sense?
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Fixr, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:55am

Great idea!
The next thing you know, they will start selling engine "Ring Tones" for their cars!
I would opt for the Formula1.wav
Can't you just see a prius like car revving up at the light! Ha Ha!!!

Loud pipes DO save lives, but it's the Harley riders lives they save!
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Clint, 7 Aug 2008 @ 9:56am

SUVs
How come people automatically get a bad rep for driving an SUV. There are a lot of practical uses for such a vehicle. Generalizations do nothing but make the person spewing them look foolish.
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Tony, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:03am

quiet cars made noisy
If cars must make noise, I vote for the sound that cars made in the Jetsons.
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dude, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:07am

Re: SUVs
Nobody automatically got a bad rep for driving an SUV, the "big SUV" on this blog said something stupid and got what he deserved in return. He was probably joking anyway, lighten up and please read before responding. Who's lookin foolish now?
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Ron B, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:08am

Sound
The video makes me laugh with the cut-aways to the dog.
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Falindraun, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:09am

Re: Stupid
The pedestrians the video refers to are BLIND, so they cant see the cars coming anyway. Blind individuals use their sense of hearing to be able to tell when its safe to cross the street.
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Dave, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:09am

Why only cars?
If this is such a big issue, what will be next? Lets make all bicycles have noise makers installed. That way the same people can avoid being hit by them...
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:14am

Re: SUVs
How come people automatically get a bad rep for posting foolish comments? There are a lot of practical uses for such people. Foolish comments do nothing but make the person spewing them look idiotic.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:14am

Re: It is actually a problem for some...
The correct response, then, is to make sight-impaired acoustic assistance devices at signalized crossings. Not to take a step back and make the world less pleasant for everyone.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:15am

Re: Re: Stupid
I bought a hybrid because gas is expensive. Sorry, I'm no idealist. The fact that it's quiet is a plus to nearly everyone, I think: who *likes* the sound of engine noise? Yes, it changes the games for blind pedestrians, but there are other answers aside from taking a step backwards and making cars noisy again.
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Halo Buff, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:16am

What about Horns?
My '85 cutlass has 2 speakers for its horn. It is fairly loud, though oddly enough, no one can hear it. Pedestrians, dim-wits in other vehicles, all completely deaf to it. If people can't pay attention to such an abnoxiously loud warning used since the earliest cars, what makes others think this concept will work?
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nunya_bidness, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:17am

Re: Why only cars?
I would imagine a lot less people get injured being hit by bicycles as opposed to being hit by a motor vehicle.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:18am

Re: I'd want mine to sound like a Ferrari Testarossa
No way. I've heard people's custom ring tones. This is possible the ONLY way to make rush hour traffic WORSE.
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Ron (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Stupid
Yes, I bought my Prius because it dumps less crap into the air, and makes better use of the fuel it does use. But, polution is not only CO2, CO, etc. It's also noise. The noise of any vehicle is a function of a number of factors including the engine, wheels, airflow, etc. So, why should I add to the noise polution with an artifical noise source? Pedestrian safety is a function of the attentiveness of the pedestrian AND of the driver. A car that makes a sh*tpile of noise is no safer if the driver or the pedestrian is not paying attention. To make it really safe for vision impaired and deaf people and those impaired by having an iPod, phone, etc glued to their heads, maybe we should require that all vehicles be equipped with noisemakers that will cause pounding in the chests of all people within 50yds. Then, everyone will know when a car is coming, even if you're not paying attention.
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nunya_bidness, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Re: Stupid
Sorry I mistakenly thought you were someone who gave a shit.
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some old guy, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:21am

Convenience to the driver
Since I am training for a triathlon, I ride my bike extensively, but I go too fast for sidewalks to be safe (to me and to pedestrians), so I am stuck riding in the streets, with the cars.

Obviously, I take up space in the road. When I know a car is behind me, I do my best to hug the very edge of the road, and when there is not a car behind me, I move to a relatively safer 3-4ft from the edge.

When cars are too quiet, I do not notice them, and do not give them the room they need to pass me in-lane, so they will have to wait for the other lane to be clear to pass me out-of-lane.

I'm not saying this cause I advocate adding speakers to cars for the obscure convenience of getting bikes to move out of the way, just to point out that the issue with bikes isn't merely cause bikers aren't paying attention, it's because you're removing their capacity to pay attention when the vehicle is too quiet, thus the onus shifts to the driver to pay this attention tax. There's just no way for us to know you are there!

This goes for non-hybrids too!
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Ron (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:22am

Re: I hate the Prius
Thank you for your comment. I'm sure we will give it all the consideration it's due.

Excuse me, did you say something?
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nunya_bidness, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:23am

Re: Re: Re: Stupid
maybe a really attentive driver could toot the horn
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Are You one?, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:30am

Dumb posters
I can't believe some of the poster's comments on this. Some people think it's ALL about themselves and don't realize it's for the safety of the blind pedestrians. They don't take into account of situations when not beling able to hear the engine noise causes great danger even when you are watching out. Some of these posters think this law is rubbish just because they think it's to protect dumb pedestrians not watching out and who it's really targeted for.
The solution may not be to put noise in electric cars but can't we work with the blind pedestrians to make a solution instead of just waiving them off as if it's their fault for not being able to hear? Someone mentioned an RF chip and canes that would make noise when it is in close proximity? I think that might be a nice idea. We should have more ideas like this.
Backup alerts might be a good idea also but not the irritating backup noise we currently have. I know this great country has full of ideas and we should pursue them instead of using this "Noise" law they are trying to push. Let's work together for a solution instead of saying "This LAw sucks!".

Just my two cents.
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Halo Buff, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid
Like I said, horns don't seem to work either... I had a guy run right out infront of me from a corner liqur store, just after I'd turned left onto the street at a light. Barely saw him, hit the horn, screeched the tires (no ABS on an '85)...he kept on going, right in front of me...

Maybe we need to teach kids in school what happens when you DON'T look for vehicles. I'm sure a bloody mess will get the point accross to most kids...
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Lion, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:33am

Re: Not just blind people
> A car one or two spaces in front of you starts their engine and starts backing out

Yes, this could be a problem. Maybe they could put some lights on the back of the car that will turn on when you start the car or put it in reverse.
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James, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:34am

Marketing opportunity
What they need to do is allow you to buy "customized" car sounds to play when the vehicle is in electric-only mode. So you could have a car that sounds like a train, or a boat.. or just farts as it goes by.
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UNKN, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:36am

Re: I'd want mine to sound like a Ferrari Testarossa
I'd rather have it sound like an H1 Hummer (loud ass military version) or a tank.
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UNKN, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:39am

Re: Re: I hate the Prius
Nice generalization there. Granted I drive a cross size I'm still a far better driver than half the asshats out there in their tiny cars. Sure I drive faster than I should, and I pay a pretty penny for gas but I don't care, and I'm far from rich.
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satan, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:42am

why bother with it?
It's just noise polution
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Mike, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:50am

Re: This is for real
Make it illegal to be blind. Problem solved!
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Model T, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:51am

Re: Not just blind people
The Prius has a backup alarm. The issue is the proposed ordinance is targeting just Hybrid and electric cars not all quiet cars, so the money people will not care.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid
About people too stupid or reckless to be responsible for their own persons?

Nope. Never have, never will.

Less noise on the road is a bonus. The *last* thing I want to hear at night is some under-the-hood speaker going by pretending to be an engine.

Stupid and pointless doesn't even *begin* to describe it.
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Model T, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:55am

Re: Convenience to the driver
The proposal would have the speakers only operate at low speed and cut out at the speed when tire noise becomes a factor. So the speakers will not help you.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 10:59am

Does anyone else
Think Colin Chapman is rolling over in his grave?
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Anonymous, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:04am

Car Tones?

Heck if people spend money on RingTones for PHones why not change the sound of your car Ferarri, Porsche, Shelby, General Lee - or maybe just put it on Vibrate?
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DS, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:04am

Re: Stupid
Ya, how dare blind people not use their eyes and look where they are going. Right?
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shane, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:10am

two words
whistle tips.
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lfisher, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:10am

Re: Convenience to the driver
"There's just no way for [cyclists] to know [cars are behind them]!"

This seems like good motivation for mandating mirrors be put on all road-legal bicycles, does it not ? I'm sure they can come up with some aerodynamic mirror designs for competition cyclists that like to train on public roadways.

I would prefer a less personally-intrusive solution for dealing with blind pedestrians, such as the audio signals at intersections and whatnot that was mentioned earlier. I'm rather selfish, so I'd rather something like that be put there than on *my* vehicle.

I would also think that car-equipped audio signals would be the much more expensive solution in the long-run, but I'm not really sure about that one.
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Michael Long, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:22am

Perpetuating obsolete technology...
It's a good thing such electronics weren't available when automobiles first hit the road, otherwise all of today's cars would still be making the sound of horse hooves striking cobblestones, in order to "help to identify vehicle distance and speed."
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Drew Moore, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:25am

noisy cars
Tire noise is enough to hear an electric car from a distance when on a bicycle, I cannot imagine why blind people can't hear them,
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Wolfgang, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:26am

custom sound
While the idea seems stupid I see the point that engine noise helps blind people. However imagine a rampaging elephant noise, then blind people wouldn't just know you're coming they would run out of your path.
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Danny, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:28am

Harley Davidson roar IP?
Didn't Harley successfully assert that own the IP of the sound their bikes make and estop one of the other bike companies from producing the same sound? I think I recall such a case.
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Michial, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:29am

Re: Re:
#20;

It may be every states law that pedestrians have the right away, but dead is still dead.

I don't get why people are stupid enough to think that because they have the right away they are perfectly safe to step out in front of a 2 ton pile of metal rolling on rubber.

Survival of the fittest should be the rule of life.
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Matt, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:29am

Safety?
If we want ultimate safety, let's all go back to walking... every technology has a downside, and the most good for the most people rule might apply here.

I like the idea of some kind of RFID or acoustic detector in the walking stick to alert the person. PLUS, the guide dog is trained NOT to let the blind person into the street with a vehicle approaching... the dog can hear the road noise of the vehicle hundreds of feet away and see it coming, too. Not all blind persons have dogs, but that is ONE alternative, rather than millions of cars with hundreds of dollars in equipment just for one small subset of the population.
We could buy a guide dog for every person in America for that amount of money...
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Yo Mamma, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:49am

2 Points
I want an engine sound, but make it sound further away so I can peg more blind people and get more points.
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David, 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:50am

I think it's a good idea. For the same reason I put new pipes on my bike, I want ppl to be able to hear me coming and at least be aware of my presence. Being a bit louder increases awareness of the vehicle.
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Wolferz (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: Re: Stupid
"who *likes* the sound of engine noise?"

uhm... car enthusiasts. Any one that has ever sat in a Shelby Mustang as it rockets from a stand still to top speed. The opening scene for I Am Legend was like heroin for me. So yes there are people who like engine noise. Mostly on higher end cars... like a Lotus.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid
Maybe an attentive pedestrian could, oh...I don't know....

Look both ways before crossing the street???

Didn't your parents ever teach this to you?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Stupid
Yeah, because those seeing eye dog's are just too much trouble...
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mojo, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:09pm

Hey, are we forgetting the #1 way to insure the safety of pedestrians, blind or otherwise? PEOPLE DRIVING THE CARS SHOULD OPEN THEIR EYES WHILE DRIVING AND PAY ATTENTION.

Whether your car makes noise or not makes no difference - YOU should be insuring that you're not slamming into people while driving. What are you going to do, complain that the person crossing the street you hit couldn't dive out of your way because your car didn't make enough noise?

You know what happens when a motorist hits a pedestrian? We throw them in jail. The judge is not going to care if you were driving a truck or a magic carpet.

The only consideration that should be made with quiet cars is reminding the drivers to PAY MORE ATTENTION.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:10pm

The bikers say it best: "Loud pipes save lives."
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re:
Hear hear.

Pedestrians have the right of way, but for one reason, and one reason only: Legal Liability.

Other than that, as you say, a smart person can easily make the connection: Car > Me.

There is a crosswalk on my way to work. At least once a week I see someone slamming on their brakes because some jackass thinks He > Car. If there is someone nearing the walk as I approach, I will stop, and everyone should, but that idiot running out there without a care in world is going to get killed one day.

...and sadly, it will be the driver's legal liability.

The stupid need to stay indoors and concentrate on not using hair dryers in the shower.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:21pm

Re: I'd want mine to sound like a Ferrari Testarossa
Too Late, I just applied for a patent, but someone else already has it.

"A device that alters the frequencies from another device installed in vehicles to increase audible recognition for alerting and warning pedestrians, bicyclists, and other motorists of said vehicle's presence."
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KG (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:43pm

Re: Better Solution
That's the best approach! It could even be incorporated headphones so they can hear over their ultra-loud music!
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KG (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:45pm

Re: Blind people need a new system
The upside to the radar/lidar approach is that blind people could also adapt this technology to other applications, such as climbing stairs or avoiding rocks on the sidewalk. But no, auto makers will probably be sued by lawyer$ to put this stuff on their cars.
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Stephen, 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:52pm

Re: I hate SUVs
Try http://www.youparklikeanasshole.com !
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: I'd want mine to sound like a Ferrari Testarossa
Re #73
So, to get your patent all you need to do is change presence to 'distance'.
Bam, patent approved by our wonderful system, because obviously distance is not an obvious extension or evolution of presence.
Don't knock it. They probably would ...
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:00pm

Re: 2 Points
Re #65
I believe it was stated very well in Resident Evil: Apocalypse
"GTA, mother***ker!
Oh, yeah!
Ten points!"

Ahhh priceless the running over of zombies with a car.
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magnumpc, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:01pm

Wasn't this already done in the 90's?
I thought someone had already some something similar to this albeit just for the occupants of the car. The system combined an active noise reduction system (like noise reducing headphones but using our car's speakers) with a simulated engine sound (also pushed thru the cars stereo) that was tied engine revs.

IIRC, there was a Corolla which sounded like a Ferrari to the occupants...
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:24pm

Re: Convenience to the driver
Funny how a friend of mine has an attachment on his helmet that allows him to see the cars coming behind and to the left of him (since he rides on the proper side of the road).

Perhaps he's got the only one in existence?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:28pm

Re: Dumb posters
"Some people think it's ALL about themselves and don't realize it's for the safety of the blind pedestrians. "

No, actually.

It's not about that at all. It's about the needs of a few being placed above the needs of the many.

I'm fine with protecting the blind. I have *no* problem with that. But when that turns into "put some lame-ass speaker in your car to annoy *everyone*", it becomes a problem.

It costs millions of drivers to do this to protect a huge minority. It's a waste. That money could be *much* better spent in outfitting the blind with detection gear...

...dont'cha think?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:30pm

Re:
I *like* the way you think. :)
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:39pm

Re: It is actually a problem for some...
this is what a horn is for
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retribution, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:46pm

Oh Really?
When you slaughter some kid that didn't hear your Prius coming let's see what a wise guy you are.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:47pm

Re: It is actually a problem for some...
HORN
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 1:57pm

Re: Not just blind people
I tend to try watch for movement...you know kinda like if it starts moving it might hurt me if I don't stop....if I'm behind it the driver has no excuse, except that he was only looking forward as he floored it backwards. I'm pretty sure you can cover your ears and walk through a parking lot VERY safely. you just have to pull your head out of your ass.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 2:02pm

Re: Convenience to the driver
two words...helmet mirrors, they are a life saver. I don't say this to sound like an ass, just figured you may want to look into it. as far as biking in the street you are technically allowed if not required to be there. you are not supposed to ride on the opposing side as instructed in the 80's and early 90's but right there with traffic. So the best thing I've found for this is a mirror that clips onto your helmet that gives you an eye backwards.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 2:25pm

Re: Why only cars?
In my state, bicycles are required to have bells when riding on the sidewalk. Too bad no one enforces it.
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Dingo, 7 Aug 2008 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stupid
About people too stupid or reckless to be responsible for their own persons?
Nope. Never have, never will.

I hear ya. Every day I see idiots and other defectives that I would love to be able to run over as a way of improving the gene pool. Unfortunately it is illegal to do so. You're right, stupid and pointless doesn't even *begin* to describe the idea of protecting these people.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 3:03pm

Re: Re: Stupid
You have to consider blind pedestrians, I think they can make something that makes "sound" instead of "noise" that would alert pedastrians without being overly obnoxious.
How about blind AND deaf pedestrians? You have to consider them too! At one time there were laws requiring a flagman to walk in front of a car to clear the way and ensure safe passage. That's what we need!

Oh, and think of the children!
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2008 @ 3:13pm

Re: Convenience to the driver
When cars are too quiet, I do not notice them, and do not give them the room they need to pass me in-lane, so they will have to wait for the other lane to be clear to pass me out-of-lane.
Then you're a bad biker. They make bicycle mirrors for road use. Get some and learn how to use them. You really don't have much excuse.
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Glenn Davey, 7 Aug 2008 @ 3:29pm

Re:
Anonymous Coward you are manipulating Darwin's theory. Get your grubby hands off it and stop giving it a bad name to people who don't fully understand it.

Folks, don't listen to this guy. Darwin merely described how species evolve through NATURAL selection, he never prescribed how we should act towards each other. This guy is talking about ARTIFICIAL selection: purposefully allowing the weak or disadvantaged in our society to fend for themselves and full prey to misfortune, to somehow cleanse the gene pool. Firstly, it doesn't work that way! Second, this is completely contrary to the human spirit, and does not represent a majority of naturalists, humanists or atheists out there.
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Eric, 7 Aug 2008 @ 3:57pm

A bit of sound is essential to the safety of blind people - particularly since studies show that the majority of drivers ignore the white canes of those who are blind. My mother is blind and this is a serious issue.

I have little sympathy for any motorist striking (or having a "near miss") a blind person with or without a white cane as they whiz by in their quiet hybrid or electric car.

This problem has also impacted the ability of guide dogs to recognize safe crossings.

This is a recognized and known serious problem of electric vehicles and researchers are working on identifying good solutions.
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Mark, 7 Aug 2008 @ 4:48pm

There are areas called 'crosswalks' and 'traffic lights' which make sounds to indicate to blind people that it is safe to cross. They should use this 'areas' instead of just crossing the road anywhere.

Problem solved.
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Glenn Davey, 7 Aug 2008 @ 4:56pm

Re: Not just blind people
DHM: when I'm in a busy, noisy, underground car park, walking along near backs of cars as you described, I do not rely on noise to alert me of a reversing car. I look for two things: a person's head in the driver side window, and the standard lights on the back of a car. The red ones indicate the thing is on, and the white ones tell me it is reversing. I also sometimes look for the car moving backwards just a tad, as most of us do when we're intending to full reverse out of a parking space. I imagine deaf people would do these same things all the time. Engine noise is something that came hand-in-hand with internal combustion engines - then we just got used to it. Now we think it is absolutely necessary? Nah-uh. We can work without it. Did we forget that less noise is a GOOD thing. Imagine bustling cities becoming many times quieter and less polluted over the next few decades. I, for one, look forward to that! We should embrace positive changes like this. Not shortsightedly balk at them because they seem to present problems.
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Beth, 7 Aug 2008 @ 5:14pm

Re: Stupid
Um... what about blind people? I don't think there's anything lazy about going out into the world when you can't see. I really hope that your comment is a joke... :/

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the noise any better, but until they get bionic eyes down I think it isn't the worst idea I've heard.
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backtalker, 8 Aug 2008 @ 7:40am

Personal Responsibility v2.0
There are two sides to this debate, both with valid points and genuine concerns, but ultimately they can all be addressed through the same two out-dated, socially-unpopular virtues: Common Sense and Common Courtesy. Unfortunately, neither is very common anymore.
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Peter Smith, 8 Aug 2008 @ 9:19am

silent vehicles
As a blind pedestrian in Boston, I can assure you that the issue of a silent vehicle is quite serious. The fact that you don't consider it merely accentuates the point. I don't expect vehicles to be loud, but everyone needs to know where they are. Boston drivers are dangerous enough without adding stealth to their arsenal!
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DHM, 8 Aug 2008 @ 9:40am

Re: Re: Not just blind people
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DHM, 8 Aug 2008 @ 9:57am

Re: Re: Not just blind people
(Hit the return key too soon on the last reply!)

Agree with most with what you say. Not as big a problem in a garage as the lights are much more obvious. In an outside parking lot on a sunny day, much less so - some lights are virtually undetectable (especially from the side, which is what we're talking about) under these conditions. Also, in a tight parking situation, you may not have line of sight to the driver. Finally, the driver needs to back up a few feet to get line of sight on passing cars. He's hit you by then.

I'm not endorsing loudspeakers continually simulating roaring engines - the problem of blind people crossing the street can probably be solved in a more clever way as has been discussed. I'm delighted when I see but don't hear a hybrid driving by. But there may be justification for some fairly quiet noise (e.g. sufficient to be barely audible 5 feet away).

Before we had internal combustion, the prevailing equine transportation technology did indeed emit a fairly quiet, but noticeable, noise when in motion.

Interesting point about deaf people - I'd be curious about their coping strategies in parking lots.
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John Wilson, 8 Aug 2008 @ 10:21am

Re: Personal Responsibility v2.0
Somehow it seems that most people responding are concerned, if that's the word, about the cost to them of the addition of a little sound device that makes a small amount of noise so that blind people can hear it coming.

What they seem to forget is that modern vehicles are loaded with electronics anyway and adding something to make a unobtrusive sound is really a no brainer and likely would cost next to nothing. Particularly as it became more widespread in the industry.

No one who has proposed such a thing is looking for a noise maker pumping out 110db from a stack of Marshall amps loaded on the roof!

Selfishness run rampant.

ttfn

John
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Damien, 8 Aug 2008 @ 12:20pm

"What they seem to forget is that modern vehicles are loaded with electronics anyway and adding something to make a unobtrusive sound is really a no brainer and likely would cost next to nothing. Particularly as it became more widespread in the industry." This isn't about cost. For many of us, myself included, the fact that the "engine" in an electric vehicle doesn't sound like a contained explosion is a plus. Noise pollution is. not. a. good. thing. When even the the birds are adapting to living with noise pollution you know something needs to be done about it, and this is part of the solution. Does it negatively affect blind people? Possibly, but only if they don't adapt to the way the world works. And in any case, it's not like electric cars are truly silent. Airflow, tire friction, motor brush friction... these all make noise.
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some old-ish guy, 8 Aug 2008 @ 6:51pm

Re: Convenience to the driver
@some old guy:

"When cars are too quiet, I do not notice them, and do not give them the room they need to pass me in-lane, so they will have to wait for the other lane to be clear to pass me out-of-lane."

Whether you hear them or not, this is the correct and legal method for cars to deal with cyclists in all 50 states. As a cyclist, you have a right to the road. If it's not safe to pass a cyclist within one lane, a car is required to use the next lane to the left to pass the cyclist.

In addition to a mirror, spend some time learning about the vehicle code in your state so you understand a cyclists rights (and responsibilities!) on the road.

The life you save may be your own.
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Dustin, 9 Aug 2008 @ 11:15am

"Whether you hear them or not, this is the correct and legal method for cars to deal with cyclists in all 50 states. As a cyclist, you have a right to the road. If it's not safe to pass a cyclist within one lane, a car is required to use the next lane to the left to pass the cyclist.

In addition to a mirror, spend some time learning about the vehicle code in your state so you understand a cyclists rights (and responsibilities!) on the road."
Sounds good, as long as you don't complain when said cyclist receives a ticket when they realize they can't maintain the road's minimum required speed for any sustained time and, as a result, create traffic jams.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:18pm

Re:
#94.

Uh yeah, and have you seen how many motorists simply ignore traffic lights and the presence of people in crosswalks?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:21pm

Re: Re: It is actually a problem for some...
HORN? Horns should be outlawed anyway. Too many buttheads out there using them to say "hello" or "hey, look at me!" instead of using them as warning devices.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:24pm

Re: Stupid
Blind people HAVE to use only their ears. This "noise maker" you're so fucked up about is simply a small noise generator operating at low speeds, when there's too little tire and wind noise to alert others of your presence. You don't have to hear any of it inside the car. It's for the benefit of pedestrians and bicyclists, so they can not only see (if not blind) but also HEAR you approach.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:29pm

Re:
The sound is for the OUTSIDE of the car. Nobody is trying to make you hear more noise INSIDE the car. If someone blind HAS to use their ears to get around safely, what's the problem with making cars not TOO quiet at low speeds?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:32pm

Re:
It's not for the benefit of other DRIVERS, it's for the benefit of pedestrians and bicyclists who are used to hearing engine noise of approaching cars, as a(nother) warning method. Pull your head out of your ass and think.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:37pm

Re: What about Horns?
No one pays attention to horns any more because they're misused. They should be reserved for emergency warning use ONLY, with all other uses punished by death.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:39pm

Re: Re: Convenience to the driver
When were people instructed to ride on the opposing side? That's always been illegal, since bicycles are supposed to obey the same traffic laws as cars and trucks.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 9:55pm

Re: noisy cars
Tire and wind noise is NOT ENOUGH at very low speeds in an electric (or hybrid) car. That's why some "artificial" method of making the car louder at very low speeds is being discussed.
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gav, 10 Aug 2008 @ 10:01pm

Re: Blind people need a new system
you need to be blind for a week to understand what an ignorant thing you wrote
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gav, 10 Aug 2008 @ 10:01pm

Re: Blind people need a new system
you need to be blind for a week to understand what an ignorant thing you wrote
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2008 @ 10:02pm

Re:
No, being louder on an already loud motorcycle means you're an asshole. Most motorcyclists are already antisocial psychopaths -- locking front brakes and spinning the rear wheel at high speed, popping wheelies at 80 down residential streets, and worst of all, running full throttle (redlining it) at all times just so they can force themselves into everyone else's lives. Bikes are already noisy enough -- we need them quieter, not noisier. Headlights are mandated to be on at all times so other drivers can SEE you. We don't need to HEAR you from miles away. I'm tired of being awakened at 2 a.m. because some drunken biker on his precious Harley wants everyone to know he's there. Shoot them all!
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John, 11 Aug 2008 @ 2:33am

Re: Stupid
What is common sense is to use ALL means possible to prevent death and injury on the roads. With traffic coming from behind ruling out sight and your pig headiness ruling out sound, I guess that only leaves the senses of smell and touch to ensure safety when pedestrians, bicyclist and cars share the same road space . The reason this type of thing needs to be regulated is because of idiots like you.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Aug 2008 @ 4:48am

Re: I hate the Prius
Says the idiot driving a car that will roll over five times if a shopping cart hits it.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Aug 2008 @ 3:34pm

Re: - or maybe just put it on Vibrate?
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black and white, 14 Aug 2008 @ 8:42am

you know if you get a pedal bike, you'll save thouzands, won't damage the enviroment and best of all you'll be less of a cock. Think about the enviromental damage it causes just to make those hybrid things.
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awtoys.net, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:53pm

awtoys
stupid theme... i dont understand anything....

www.awtoys.net
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Jack, 17 Dec 2010 @ 8:30am

Re: Stupid
I think the noise is meant for blind people. Ron is an insensitive fucking asshole! I hope a big fucking noisy truck runs over his stupid fucking ass! RON IS A FUCKING DICK! Tell everyone...nevermind, they already know. It's on Google.RON you are such a doucebag!
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