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Turkey Bans Richard Dawkins' Website, Because It Offends A Creationist

from the why-not-just-ban-the-internet? dept

Fri, Sep 19th 2008 9:35am — Mike Masnick

We already know that Turkish officials have a pretty quick trigger finger when it comes to banning certain websites. They've banned YouTube multiple times due to videos they found offensive, and then banned Slide, a multimedia hosting company as well. Still, it's a bit surprising to discover that now they've banned the website of Richard Dawkins after a Turkish creationist complained that the site had insulted him. Apparently, this guy, Adnan Oktar, has become quite successful at getting sites blocked in Turkey. In the past, he also got Wordpress.com and Google Groups blocked after he became upset at content found on both of those sites. And, even better, he claims he's not against free speech, he's just against insults. And, apparently, anyone who disagrees with him is insulting.

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Filed Under: adnan oktar, creationism, darwinism, richard dawkins, turkey

53 Comments

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mike allen, 19 Sep 2008 @ 9:39am

wonder
Can you now get techdirt in Turkey He is in the right country Turkey for Turkeys.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 9:53am

i will never understand this pacification bullshit. Just because one person has a "belief" doesn't mean that everyone else that is interested in a subject has to suffer.

How bout this fucking buy STOPS SEEKING OUT SITES THAT HAVE INFORMATION THAT "OFFENDS" HIM.

IT'S PERSONAL FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY, IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, IGNORE IT, DON'T READ, WATCH, or LISTEN to IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP RUINING IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
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deathbychichi, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:04am

Wondering how all this banning of stuff will affect Turkey's attempt to join the EU.
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Tweenybobber, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:29am

Huh?
Why does Turkey hate the guy from Family Fued?
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eXistenZ, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:32am

You think EU countries will let turkey get in? Come on you are talking about a nation who is %99 muslim they will never let us in. Even after giving up north Cyprus.
About the block it is stupid but hey, atleast over there ISP are listening to what people has to say...
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:34am

One person doesn't equal the opinion of everyone. it's complete and utter bullshit that any ISP would do this for any one person.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:46am

Adnan Oktar is a moron!

oops....I guess I just got Techdirt blocked in Turkey.

Oh well, who the hell cares?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:51am

Not about Creationism
Get it straight! This is about offending Muslims, not creationists in general. You go against Islam in Turkey, you're done. When you talk about Islamic countries, you're not just talking about the popular religon there, you're talking about the government. Islamic law is just that... the law!
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Dosquatch, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:58am

and the cheap shot award is sent out
Well, I mean, Damn. It's Richard Fucking Dawkins. This is just good policy, isn't it?
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Bear, 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:59am

Re: Not about Creationism
I could be wrong but I think I remember reading that Turkey was the only country in that region that has a deliberately secular gov't. Can anyone else confirm?
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TX CHL Instructor (profile), 19 Sep 2008 @ 10:59am

Islam
Islam, the bronze-age superstition started by a pedophile, is currently the most dangerous superstition on the planet.

I'm all for tolerance, but a superstition that preaches "submit, pay a special tax, or die" is not something I'm willing to tolerate. It does not merit tolerating, and its followers have no legitimate place in a world of decent people.
--
www.chl-tx.com
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TX CHL Instructor (profile), 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:03am

Re: Re: Not about Creationism
So far, the government there is nominally secular. However, since the muslim superstition claims over half of the population of Turkey, that won't last much longer.
--
www.chl-tx.com
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eXistenZ, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:03am

You idiot Turkey is a Republic not ruled by islam. And there are thousands of Jewish and Christian people live in Turkey.
Nothing will happen to you if you don't insult people because of what they believe...
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Saturn, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:22am

Re:
But that's the rub, eXistenZ - it doesn't matter what someone says, it only matters how someone else takes it (and possibly twists it out of context).
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Jillian, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:24am

Won't make a big difference - the rest of the EU filters the Internet too - how about Germany's ban on Holocaust denial sites?

Forget the difference in subject matter, clearly the EU isn't all that big on freedom of speech.
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Jillian, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:26am

Re: Not about Creationism
Um, Turkey is a secular country. What you just said could very well apply to the U.S. as well. We've got politicians trying to integrate law and religion as well, we just veil it under the more precarious abortion debate.
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Jillian, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:26am

Re: Re: Not about Creationism
No, wrong. Syria's government is notably secular as well. A dictatorship, but a secular one.
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Jillian, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:26am

Re: Re: Not about Creationism
No, wrong. Syria's government is notably secular as well. A dictatorship, but a secular one.
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another mike, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:39am

godwin in 15. nice.
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interval, 19 Sep 2008 @ 11:46am

I'm still waiting for some one to be insulted by an islamic website and try to get it banned. Why doesn't that happen? I'm not talking about blocking a site that displays the Koran. But I'm insulted by violence. How about blocking a site that advocates murder by suicide car bombing?
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John (profile), 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:03pm

Who is this guy
Who is this guy in Turkey and how did he get so much power? I'll admit that I'm not up on Turkish politics, but is this guy the President/ Premier/ Prime Minister/ Lord Over the Country?

So any time he thinks a site is offensive, the government will block it?? Not even President Bush or Bill Gates has that kind of power.

And I worry about a country where ONE person complains about a site and government will block it. Or is there more to this story? Did the guy take the case before a review board? Was there any kind of "court hearing" about the offensiveness of the site?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:19pm

Re: Islam
"Islam, the bronze-age superstition started by a pedophile, is currently the most dangerous superstition on the planet.

I'm all for tolerance, but a superstition that preaches "submit, pay a special tax, or die" is not something I'm willing to tolerate. It does not merit tolerating, and its followers have no legitimate place in a world of decent people."

Dude I know, why cant they be Christians like decent people. Anyway nice to see another quality American on these forums finally.

Vote McCain 2008 - For change without a difference.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:20pm

Re:
"Nothing will happen to you if you don't insult people because of what they believe..."

What happens if you do insult people for what they believe? Free speech is not a highly valued doctrine I assume?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:21pm

Re:
"How about blocking a site that advocates murder by suicide car bombing?"

Well there goes most of the best video game sites . . . thanks!
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Adnan Oktar, 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:37pm

Adnan Oktar sounds like a wonderful person
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J.Locke, 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:55pm

its the opiate of asses
If you believe something is a moral affront to the very word of GOD, don’t you have a responsibility to stop it? This is of course one of the many things wrong with organized religion (and one of the many things that make Iran and Israel very similar). I can’t wait until the world is free of the old prejudices, hatreds and superstitions called religion.
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Ferd, 19 Sep 2008 @ 12:57pm

Network Solutions banned a Dutch web site that contained little more than the words "Fitna" (which is an Arabic word meaning a test of faith) along with a picture of the Qur'an and "Coming Soon." which was being used to promote a Dutch movie critical of the Qur'an... from pressure from Dutch govt.

YouTube in England banned educational cancer screening video cause it showed nekkid stuff.

Thailand blocked access to YouTube after a video critical to its king was posted (and commonly bans similar websites... as well as recently imprisoned a man for 10 years for writing graffiti on a poster of the king)

England has banned all YouTube videos glamorizing weapons and/or their use.

Over 853 major websites are banned in Turkey (including the aforementioned Dawkins "we evolved from the DNA of advanced aliens" website).

China blocks thousands of websites, including such radical locations as harvard.edu, mit.edu, and google.com.

and on and on and on...

Count your blessings while you still can in this country. Fight tooth and nail to not give up the rights endowed by your Creator that government meddlers, politically correct feel-gooders, and lazy thinkers seem determined to take away from you, bit by bit.

God bless America :)
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WarOtter (profile), 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:00pm

Re: wonder
Dude, make like my wife and get a period or two.
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mobiGeek, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Not about Creationism
And the marriage debate. And the "science education" debate. And the "freedom of prayer in public schools" debate. And...
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mobiGeek, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:08pm

Re: Islam
You know, Bill O'Reilly is not a scholar on religious studies. Quit taking his word on what Islam means. Quit taking the CNN footage of three scarved freaks as representative footage of the billion normal people who subscribe to the philosophies prescribed by the religion.
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mobiGeek, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:10pm

Re:
Who is it you want blocking these sites? The governments of the Western world who mostly subscribe to the rights of free speech???
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DarkDancer, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:12pm

Re: Godwin's Law
I don't think I would call Godwin's on that as no one was being compared to Hitler or the Nazi's.
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mobiGeek, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:18pm

Re: its the opiate of asses
Not when your religion prescribes that every practitioner should question everything and seek their own answers. If they do not accept criticisms, then they are not true followers.
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mobiGeek, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:22pm

Re:
God bless America
You are kidding, right?
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bobety Boberanna, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:29pm

Re: its the opiate of asses
You seem full of hate Brohm and prejudice yourself. The world may be a better place without people like you too.

NoBamma 2008
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eu, 19 Sep 2008 @ 1:46pm

What do we expect from a country that every party in the Parliament are more or less a nationalist one.
And women are treated like pets also...
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rfburnhertz, 19 Sep 2008 @ 3:01pm

Re:
I happen to be a creationist and find this persons crying over Dawkins website to be beyond stupid and silly.

I suspect this creationist is unable to defend his creationist beliefs and that is why he fears sites such as Dawkins or he simply has a dictators mindset.

I am able and willing to defend my beliefs I see websites/information defending evolution as an opportunity to learn what and why the 'other side' believes.

I believe this person would be better served if he too looked at it in that way.

While I believe my worldview (Christianity) is the correct/true worldview I do not believe it my place to force others to reject differing worldviews.

I often make attempts to convince others to reject their worldview and adopt a Christian worldview, but I see no sense in trying to force someone in such a direction.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2008 @ 6:46pm

Re: Re:
A good debate can often be fun... But evolution is a fact not a belief. It's as much a theory as gravity is.

Still, just 'cause evolution happened doesn't mean god doesn't exist.
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AJ, 19 Sep 2008 @ 7:41pm

Re: Not about Creationism
Every "believer" is a creationist or supporter of one. By believe I mean person following a religion. Christians are no better dude. Islam is not any worse than any other religion on the planet. To every person, his or her religion seem better.

Now you will definitely reply back, that Christianity (or whatever is your religion) is better. I'd answer, bingo! I am right in the above statement :)

Just be rational. Before criticizing others, look at yourself and your "faith". Having a faith is bad, no matter which one.
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RD, 20 Sep 2008 @ 6:16am

AC
Quote: "A good debate can often be fun... But evolution is a fact not a belief. It's as much a theory as gravity is."

hahahaha. heh, whew, thanks, good one, havent had that good a laugh in quite a while on this subject.

Evolution is a theory. Theories by their very nature are yet to be proven. Things not proven (or not provable) are not facts. Accepting such things is FAITH. Sorry, but thats just how it is.

There is NO CONCRETE PROOF of life as we know it deriving from some primordial soup (or whatever mechanism evolution believes in this week). Zero. Zip. Nada. FAIL.
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Oh My Goodness, 20 Sep 2008 @ 8:23am

Re: AC
Granted, and some theories might never be "proven" although they are accepted as being the prevailing most accurate model.

Here is some light reading you may find interesting.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Sep 2008 @ 9:06am

religion is for people who don't think.
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Jeff, 20 Sep 2008 @ 7:37pm

Wait....
Hold on a second...who gives a fuck what Turkey does?
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DS, 20 Sep 2008 @ 9:18pm

Re: wonder
Well, you can't get techdirt in Turkey anymore. At least once this dolt sees this page.
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Dawger, 20 Sep 2008 @ 11:38pm

Re: Re:
Well you are an idiot, but a nice idiot.
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Dawger, 20 Sep 2008 @ 11:42pm

Re: Re:
Well you are an idiot, but a nice idiot.
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Another Planet, 21 Sep 2008 @ 3:21am

"Religion" is what happens when Spirituality fails.
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spanners the wonder panda, 21 Sep 2008 @ 2:46pm

"Religion" and "Spirituality" are what happen when weak minds are infected by similarly weak minds ...
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Yagmur, 21 Sep 2008 @ 6:17pm

It's not about religion... It is law abuse.
I'm from Turkey and living in Germany.

I think the whole mess about banning sites is a good example of legal abuse. The law which allows (even local) courts to ban websites was actually intended for matters like terrorism and child porn. At that stage a lot of people including me and most of the civil rights groups in Turkey were not happy with the law. People complaining about it were marked as terror preachers and child-porn-downloaders by the populist media. For a while courts with overprotective (or conservative) judges used it to ban porn sites (even some manga sites were blacklisted under the child-abuse assumption).

Then came the abuse of law by the media by pointing to sites which they don't like. Very popular newspapers like Hurriyet started pointing a site (like youtube) by actually talking about one file or link or some media and than targeting the whole site. The rest of the media, liberals and conservatives all alike followed the example. Politicians did not miss the move, so they also started complaning about bad content in the tubes. In Turkey it is not very hard to find a judge which has the free time for listening complaints and not the guts to dismiss a case coming from popular media or politicians. And there is still the authority of judges to self-initiate cases if seen fit as in "good for people".

As this whole abuse of law was not enough, we have people like Adnan Oktar. He is the turkish version of the Church of Scientology, but think of him as Xenu himself leading the church. He and his followers are using any possible means of law to make life miserable for other people. On a given day you can find a few thousand court invitations in your mailbox for just blogging about him. His cult was famous with their polygamic lifestyle and orgies they were organizing at 90's. On the gossip pages one can always find something to read about him and his concubines from fashion industry. One sure thing is that they have nothing to do with any kind of semitic religion.

So here my two cents, now i have to go check my mailbox. ;)
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Jake, 22 Sep 2008 @ 6:50am

In the Turkish creationist's defence, Richard Dawkins has displayed an unfortunate tendency towards... tactlessness, shall we say?
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Anonymous, 23 Sep 2008 @ 6:52am

Website banned but book on sale
They might have banned the website, but you can still buy the book (in English and Turkish) in major bookstores all over Turkey. See: http://www.dr.com.tr/FO/ProductDetailForBook.aspx?work_no=0000000227732

Additionally, while Turkey has a strictly secular constitution, the current government (democratically elected by a landslide) has strong Islamic roots and this inevitably emerges in some of it's policies. There is already plenty of public and media attention on the anti-secular policies of the government. It's just a matter of time before they are forced to backtrack on these.
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Victor, 7 Nov 2008 @ 10:01pm

Dawkins
Maybe its wrong for Turkey to ban his website, but this guy he boldly goes to debate the most ignorant fundamentalist preachers in the Bible belt he can find and makes a video program about it, but gives the lamest excuses to avoid debates with Christian Philosophers or Apologists such as JP Moreland, Willam L Craig, or Dinesh D'souza. The fact of the matter is, is this individual is not interested in people to think for themselves. He makes some legitime issues and makes some points, but his temper and lack of objectivity concerning philosophical and theological issues, and in the end, his critique of religion in general is a straw man argument based on a distorted view of science, a series of straw man arguments against Christianity and other religions, and pseudo explanations based on a very speculative psychological theory (his meme-ology). I don't like censorship, but censoring Dawkins isn't exactly the most outrageous thing one can censor.
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Carole Heath Wallington Surrey, 20 Feb 2009 @ 8:50am

Richard Dawkin's
Hasn't Richard Dawkins a right to his opinions can't a free thinker voice his views, I am a member of the British humanist society and also a non-religious person like Richard I agree with much of what he says. What would Turkey like to do ban all free thinkers, people who do not agree with religion have aways been on earth since humankind first started it, I think these people who object to us non-religious are small minded and can't except other's views, ie evolution and Darwinism, I don't object to their beliefs. I think Richard has many people who agree with him ride on Richard that's what I say.
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