Microsoft Sues DHL Over Trainload Of Dropped Xboxes

from the big-or-small,-they'll-break-them-all dept

Tue, Oct 14th 2008 7:05am — Mike Masnick

Over the years, I've certainly had my fair share of bad experiences with both UPS and FedEx, but for me, personally, no delivery company has been worse on a regular basis than DHL. Almost every time I've had to deal with the company the experience has been somewhere between bad and ridiculous -- and I've heard similar stories from friends as well, from undelivered packages, to crushed packages -- even to a story of a phone shipped via DHL that arrived with the box torn open and the phone missing. It appears that we individuals aren't alone in our annoyances with DHL. Microsoft is now suing the company for how it dealt with a shipment of Xboxes that were on a train that derailed. Consider this a scaled up version of the old "crushed box" delivery that you or I might be used to. Apparently, the train had six containers full of Xboxes that were damaged -- with DHL refusing to pay for the damages or missing Xboxes that didn't make the rest of the journey.

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Filed Under: delivery, lawsuits, xbox
Companies: dhl, microsoft

72 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 7:33am

Although I generally don't like Microsoft, they are right this time. DHL deserves what's coming.
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COD, 14 Oct 2008 @ 7:40am

A couple of years ago we found a DHL delivery in our driveway one day and couldn't figure out how it got there. We thought maybe a neighborhood kid had started to steal it from the porch and got spooked or something. A couple of days later we saw the DHL truck throw a box onto our driveway from a moving truck. When we called to complain we were assured that it could not have happened because it was "against policy."
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- Chris Maresca, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:58am
  
  Yup, same happened to me...
  ... except I live in a city, and the driver threw it from the street. It hit my front door and, unlucky for him, I was home. I ran out there and got really mad. He was pretty shocked anyone was home.
  
  Seems that throwing packages out of vehicles is standard DHL policy....
  
  Chris.
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- ehrichweiss, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:03pm
  
  Re:
  Yeah, I have typically had horrible experiences with DHL but there was one time that I got such excellent service that has NEVER been matched since BY ANYONE.
  
  I had to return a laptop for a warranty repair and for whatever reason the company insisted on DHL. I called them to tell them my package was ready but that I was heading out in 15 minutes so they'd have to schedule it for a few hours later that day. TWO minutes later I hear a ring at the door. It's the DHL guy; he was in the area and somehow they had efficiently gotten the info to him and he busted his ass to come pick it up rather than waste time coming to pick it up later in the day.
  
  Like I said, that has never been beaten and I don't know how they pulled it off but it was a very real experience.
  
  Again, most of my experiences with them are horrible so this is not just someone shilling for the company....
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- Zuke, 15 Oct 2008 @ 11:04am
  
  Re:
  I had a similar thing happen to me as far as DHL deliveries go. I have a small 3-1/2 ft high wooden fence w/gate around my yard. UPS/Fedex delivery folks simply lean over the gate and leave packages just on the other side, where it's not totally obvious to people walking by, but I'll find it when I come home. The DHL "delivery" person/quarterback, literally threw a package about 10 feet inside the fence into the center of my front lawn for all the world to see. Idiots. Worst delivery service ever.
  
  DHL didn't cause the trainwreck, but they must pay out on the insured claim! Sock it to 'em Microsoft!!
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 7:41am

You get what you pay for
"Although I generally don't like Microsoft, they are right this time. DHL deserves what's coming."

It was Microsoft that made an exclusive deal with DHL for distribution of all thier refurbed xboxs . . . thier customers have been sufforing from that decision for around 3 years now.
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- Not an Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:29am
  
  Re: You get what you pay for
  Pretty sure you are a bold faced liar.
  I had an xbox issue a year and a half ago.
  microsoft had me send it and sent it back via UPS.
  if that has changed it is far more recent
  than three years ago. I had that ring of doom, but microsoft fixed it quickly and got it back to me with a one month free subscription (which I still haven't bothered to use...)
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:59pm
    
    Re: Re: You get what you pay for
    Mine RROD'd only a couple months ago and shipping was handled by UPS as well...I believe your call of BS is spot on.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:29am
  
  Re: You get what you pay for
  I think you're mistaken. when my xbox red ringed they told me to ship it UPS, and it was sent back via UPS.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:48am
  
  Re: You get what you pay for
  Does that make DHL any less wrong? If you are in charge of delivering something, and you destroy it, you pay for it. That's called liability.
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- WarOtter (profile), 14 Oct 2008 @ 11:14am
  
  Re: You get what you pay for
  Ummmm quite wrong. I just shipped my Xbox out and back with UPS, all paid for by Microsoft. They may use DHL from time to time for mass transit of goods, but their refurb program uses UPS exclusively AFAIK.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lucretious, 14 Oct 2008 @ 7:45am

Same experiences here as well. I buy cigars online and one of the companies uses DHL. I've never had a delivery date rescheduled by UPS or the USPS but DHL.....several times. Also, the boxes ALWAYS show signs of someone checking the contents out.

Also, the drivers seem like they came straight from the local work release program.
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B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:12am

A small lession on liability...
There's a difference between liability and insurance when it comes to shipping goods. The knee jerk reaction to someone damaging goods like this is that they should pay the full market value for what was lost. But think about that for a second from the position of the freight company. If I give you a container with $4.3 million (21,600 xboxes x $200) and tell you I'm going to pay some small amount to ship it (for the sake of argument let's say $10k), but I'm going to hold you accountable for the market value if you break them... what's the likelihood that you'd be willing to agree to those terms? At a certain point of adjustment, your margin doesn't cover your risk and you can't afford to ship the goods. Liability for cargo is surprisingly low and usually done by the container regardless of content.

Microsoft wants DHL to cover the expense as they had purchased insurance on the cargo... and that's simply not how things work. It's just like when you buy something on eBay but skimp on the shipping insurance. Your ceramic kitty cat arrives as a fine powder because of poor shipping or packing and you're SOL because you assumed the risk yourself.

If DHL was shown to be negligent in some way then Microsoft could have a case... but if the train derailment was a true accident then I don't think the big M has a leg to stand on. That said, DHL will probably just settle out of court to make the problem go away.
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- Brian, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:56am
  
  Re: A small lession on liability...
  I don't think they are suing over the fact that some were damages. I think it is more that damaged units were never delivered. That is a breach of contract.
  
  If the boxes were banged up, then the units could have been repackaged and sold as refurbished units. They can't do that if they never see them again.
  
  How does M$ (who I also have a loathing for) go to their insurance company for a claim if DHL employees stole the goods?
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  - B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:01am
    
    Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
    It's not as difficult as you might think. If you have your car stolen, do you have to prove to the insurance company that you weren't in cahoots with the person who stole it?
    
    I'm not saying DHL is in the right here, nor am I defending their business. I'm simply pointing out that under the rules of limited liability, Microsoft can't sue them for nearly as much as you'd think.
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- DS, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:39am
  
  Re: A small lession on liability...
  Let me guess, you work for a shipper, because you left something out. The value of the goods at the time of shipment is the value of the sale. Granted, if these were going from Microsoft to, say Walmart, Microsoft cannot recoup the amount that Walmart sells them for, but Microsoft can recoup the amount that Walmart bought them for. As at the time of shipping, that's how much they were worth. So, DHL should pay Microsoft full market value at the time of shipping, which is whatever price the consignee paid for the product.
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  - B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:33am
    
    Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
    I work in the shipping industry, yes... but I don't really have a stake in this matter (don't work for or compete with DHL). You missed my point though. A shipper cannot be held liable for the value of the cargo (at manufacturing costs or sale price) for the reasons I stated in the first paragraph.
    
    Believe me, I was as surprised by this as you are now when I was informed of how the industry works.
    
    In summary, if a shipper can be held liable for the full shipment value (manufactured or sale price), the profit margin would be overshadowed by the risk involved, and either a) the shipper would refuse to move expensive goods or b) shippers would up the price based on the value of their contents and make shipping such things cost prohibitive.
    
    Shipping costs are based on weight and/or volume... not the value of the thing you're moving. So as a shipper, you get the same amount of money for moving produce as expensive cars and plasma TVs (of similar weight and volume).
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    - DS, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:14pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
      Sorry, you're still wrong. And now wrong on new items. Is the shipper you work for a small parcel carrier? Because if so, that's a different set of rules. If not, I'm guessing that you work for a small shipping company. Because that's the line that they try to use all the time, to try to pull one over on someone who does not know any better. I worked in freight claims, and it was my job to get money for the companies that the carriers damaged. The value of the goods at the time of shipment is what the items sold for. If Microsoft sold the X-Boxes for say, on average, $250 each, that's the value of the items that was damaged. Now if Walmart then sold them for $300, of course Microsoft cannot recover that amount, because that's not the value of the goods at the time of shipping. That being said, the cost of shipping overland is very much influenced by the type of goods. It's not just weight/volume (density), but the value of that type of goods. That's all taken into account when setting up the classification of the goods. Although Plasma TV's, may not have a very light density, the value of electronics is much higher than say, tables of the same density. So they have a different classification, and a different rate. Of course, this is all hashed out during contract negotiations, so it's not always that the goods are shipping under the the correct rate, but an agreed upon rate.
      
      Please stop me before I keep going on. It's giving me nightmares. Transportation is a terrible field to be in. It's all about the pennies.
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      - B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 1:20pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
        I work for a company that handles the logistics of moving big freight containers. Mainly the big container ships (lots of Asia/US trade). So 40', 20' containers, etc. We handle smaller stuff too, but our bread and butter is ocean trade.
        
        And actually you said it yourself... you worked in freight claims. That sounds like insurance to me. Think about it real quick though. If you as a ship from party were guaranteed delivery or the money for the lost goods... why would there even BE freight insurance? I mean, you acknowledge that freight insurance exists, right? If the logistics provider or shipper were held accountable for the value of the manufactured goods, why would these insurance companies even exist? In this case Microsoft could just rely on liability.
        
        You worked on the transportation business, right? So you've probably at least heard of Incoterms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterm
        
        CIF and CIP both designate who's responsible for paying freight insurance. Why would these designations exist if liability covered the loss?
        
        Also you've responded twice but with nothing to say against the point I made in the first paragraph and restated in my response about profit margin vs risk.
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        DS, 14 Oct 2008 @ 3:06pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
        Where does profit margin vs risk get involved? Easy, you don't break things that you ship. You get profit. That, and the rating of goods also takes in accout the general value of the goods, as I had already stated.
        
        No, I had NOTHING to do with insurance, I did the dirty work for my clients to get money from carriers that they were owed.
        
        International shipping is yet a whole other game. As I had stated. You've probally at least heard of CZAR.
        
        As Microsoft's lawsuit is invoking the Interstate Commerce Act, I would think that Internatonal shipping standards to not apply.
        
        As per the FedEx Website (because DHL's stinks, and only list terms for small parcel, which is a different situation again): "What documentation is needed to file a FedEx Freight claim?
        A FedEx Freight claim must be presented with a statement describing the goods lost or damaged and how the amount of the claim was determined. This statement should be supported with a copy of the bill of lading or FedEx freight bill, a copy of an inspection report if one was performed, and a copy of the vendor's original invoice or other document to establish the value of the goods."
        
        In this case 'Original Invoice' is how much the consignee paid for the goods. That's how interstate shipping works.
        
        And again, as Microsoft is invoking interstate shipping laws, unless this is an incorrect application of interstate shipping laws, the value that they should be reimbursed is the full sold price of the goods.
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        B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 3:27pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
        Actually I haven't heard of CZAR and I couldn't find what you are talking about via google.
        
        Steven, who posted on the Re: Re: Re: Re: level was able to track down the shipping regulation stuff I was referring to. He also does make a concession worth noting though... things could be different for rail. I doubt it too, but I'm not 100% there.
        
        I more or less addressed these points in my third comment a couple more posts down from the one you responded to (Re: Re: Re: Re: level :P). It's all down to what sort of agreement they had set up.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        DS, 15 Oct 2008 @ 4:30am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
        "Actually I haven't heard of CZAR and I couldn't find what you are talking about via google."
        
        Because you are not familiar with interstate freight transportation.
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      - Steven, 14 Oct 2008 @ 1:54pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
        Maybe things are very different for rail (as opposed to ocean, air, and truck) but I highly doubt it.
        
        Liability is structured in CSU's or Customer Shipping Units. A CSU is the smallest unit being shipped (not the individual box it's usually what is called a 20 foot or 40 foot equivalent unit, basically what would fit in that size container).
        
        COGSA - Carriage of Goods by Sea Act. Liabilit is limited to $500 per CSU. A 40 foot container full of LCD TV's goes overboard you get $500, hope you bought insurance.
        
        COGWA - Carriage of Goods by Water Act. Basically the same thing
        
        HAGUE-VISBY - EU Treaty 666.67 SDR (Special Drawing Right, an IMF contractual currency, welcome to the world of acronyms) which equates to about $500 per CSU.
        
        Warsaw Convention - Carriage of Goods by Air. $20 per kg
        
        Trucking US - $0.50 per lb
        Trucking Canada - $2.00 per lb
        Trucking EU - 25 Swiss FR per kilo
        
        This is why you (as a company shipping large amounts of stuff) really need to buy insurance.
        
        (The amounts might be a little old and their a bit simplified, but that's basically right)
        
        All this all laid out, along with a whole mess of corner cases and exemptions, in a contract usually called a Bill of Lading, or Air Waybill, or Master Bill, or ....
        
        This is not the same as you sending a sweater to you mom via UPS.
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      - B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 1:57pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: A small lession on liability...
        Did a quick bit of homework here and some google work. Basically... we can't really know the answer to this without more information.
        
        It really depends on the terms of the agreement and the bill of lading.
        
        Take a peek at this site (simplest I could find) -> http://www.exhibitoronline.com/exhibitormagazine/article.asp?ID=522
        
        Basically if Microsoft paid an extra fee to the carrier and declared the shipment's value, then DHL could be held accountable for the cost (as you said).
        
        If they did not pay the extra fee or did not declare the value, then DHL would be responsible for some set amount per pound that would be significantly lower than the actual value.
        
        This is more or less what I was eluding to when I said "Liability for cargo is surprisingly low and usually done by the container regardless of content." Should have said weight, but 50 cents per pound is about 5 bucks an xbox... a bit lower than their value, I'd say ;)
        
        At any rate, this stuff is ridiculously complicated. Thanks for the discussion though, made my brain bend a bit today ;)
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:03am
  
  Re: A small lession on liability...
  I think the lesson here is you should read the article. You are making a bunch of assumptions based on????
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  - B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:37am
    
    Re: Re: A small lesson on liability...
    ...my knowledge of the shipping industry ;) . And yes I read the article.
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- Boost, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:16pm
  
  Re: A small lession on liability...
  WTF?!?! Really?! Do you really, honestly, think you shouldn't be held responsible for damage to someone elses goods while those goods were in your care? That's just like an airline telling you they're not going back the full replacement value of your luggage while it was in their trust. It's completely rediculous what this world has come to that you have to buy your own insurance for a product that you're entrusting to someone else because they are, indeed, untrustworthy.
  
  If I owned a company there would be no way I would let word get out that I wasn't completely trustworthy in my services. If someone gave me a package to deliver for them, you could bet your lifesavings that I would take complete responsibility for that package's contents.
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Team Tutorials, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:13am

http://teamtutorials.com
DHL will be out of business in the states before MS gets any money.
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Whatever, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:18am

It must just depend on where you live.
DHL and UPS are consistently good in my area. DHL especially has gone out of their way to deliver packages, attempting signature-required deliveries when I'm home, changing delivery addresses to suit my schedule, etc. UPS is similar. Both companies have always been helpful with questions or locating packages.

It's FedEX that I have issues with. Many packages arrive a day or so late, with some purposefully held an extra day or two at the depot because "You didn't pay for 2 day service, so we're holding your delivery". I've even had packages opened and rummaged through. I once had a package arrive looking as if FedEx had put it in a giant blender - the box all mangled and cut open. Not to mention that the local FedEx office is staffed by clueless, rude zombies.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:54am
  
  Re: It must just depend on where you live.
  I once worked for Eastbay, a branch of Footlocker, and I would say that generally you are right: it is a area by area thing. However, overall, FedEX has been reliable in deliver, but unreliable in support if something goes wrong, UPS has been decently reliable, but extremely out of their way helpful if something goes wrong, and DHL has had neither. Of all the companies I'd dealt with, DHL lost the most packages, and were the most unwilling to help when they did.
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  - RogerB, 15 Oct 2008 @ 12:22pm
    
    Re: Re: It must just depend on where you live.
    Shit happens, but more in the States than in Europe.
    DHL is the best over here in Europe.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:06am
  
  Re: It must just depend on where you live.
  It's the reverse in my area. FedEx is great, but UPS is not so great. They once delivery a set of car headlights that had been reduced to glass fragments. Looked like the box had been run over. And UPS definitely will hold things, where as FedEx usually does not.
  
  DHL, however, takes the cake for the worst package handling, although they seem to have gotten slightly better.
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- Anonymous Coward #42, 14 Oct 2008 @ 11:09am
  
  Re: It must just depend on where you live.
  Funny how that works. My experience is the exact opposite. Stuff shipped via Fedex here always comes on time, if not early, and in one piece. I guess technically the DHL stuff we get is intact (most of the time) but our delivery guy is a jerk, and often doesn't deliver "overnight" packages until late afternoon the next day, which doesn't help much when we're waiting for critical computer parts and such (oh, so now they have "priority overnight" and now we get the shaft? nice).
  
  As for UPS, we constantly receive boxes with corners crunched, big holes punched in the sides, and some boxes I could have sworn had been routed through the war zone in Iraq first, they were so beat up. If not for the packing materials inside, the goods would be toast. At least the delivery guys are great.
  
  I guess it all depends on the kind of characters they have running things, not necessarily a reflection on the company in general.
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TheOldFart, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:25am

Laptop computer delivery
I lived on a U-shaped street. It was unfortunate that the idiots in the street department re-used addresses so that there was an 1140 North and 1140 South, but that's the way it was.

Never a problem for UPS or Fedex, they never mis-delivered the many packages I got through them. However when I got a new Micron laptop for work that had a price tag of $5,200 on it and a gigantic bright colored sticker that covered half the box that said "do not deliver without a signature", the *moron* DHL driver left it at the wrong address without a signature.

When I called asking where the package was (it was shipped via overnight service) I explained the potential for address confusion they asked *me* to go to the neighbors house and see if the package was there and retrieve it! I told them get the damn thing themselves.

It turned out the neighbors were on vacation and the person watching their house had taken the package in for them. No way to know who it was watching the house so no way to retrieve it. So it sat there, clearly visible in their kitchen window for a week and a half with the big, brightly colored sticker facing out "Do not deliver without a signature"
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John Doe, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:25am

You mean you can steal music by mail now? Or is this article not about stealing music?
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Keith Jolie, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:32am

coming up next, a story about religion
I think it's a sad commentary on the state of technology innovation when the internet news is reporting a story about a shipping lawsuit. It's even a worse commentary that Techdirt felt it was worth adding its 2 cents.
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- CVPunk, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:41am
  
  Re: coming up next, a story about religion
  It's a tech company that is suing DHL correct?
  So what's your beef? Don't you ever order tech supplies or parts? Even if you don't, I am sure there are a lot of people on here that do.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- mobiGeek, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:54am
  
  Re: coming up next, a story about religion
  Shipping companies (mis)use technology. Techdirt is also (a) not a "news" site and (b) focused on more than just technology issues (IP, privacy, "Insight company for the information age"...not necessarily technology).
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 11:23am
    
    Re: Re: coming up next, a story about religion
    mobiGeek
    
    Don't worry...I never called Techdirt a "news" company.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Rose M. Welch, 14 Oct 2008 @ 2:43pm
  
  Re: coming up next, a story about religion
  This isn't a news site... This is a blog. Meaning that Mike, Blaine, Tim, and all of the other people at Techdirt can comment on whatever catches their fancy. Being who they are, it's usually money or tech related... And anything having to do with Microsoft covers both. :)
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Steven, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:35am

Microsoft is out of luck here.
I happen to work for a 'freight forwarder' (not DHL). While I'm more familiar with ocean shipments, some same basic principles apply, the main one being limited liability. DHL is only liable for a small fee that has little relationship to the value of the goods shipped. If this wasn't the case shipment of goods would either stop or be prohibitively expensive. This is why you should buy insurance when you ship anything expensive.
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CVPunk, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:38am

out of business...
Isn't DHL going under already? A girl I work with has a fiance that works for DHL and he said that he is starting to look for another job because DHL might not be around much longer.
They suck anyways... I was getting a package delivered by them and checked the tracking on the website to see when it would arrive. The (1)package had arrived at the local DHL facility on Mon., Tues., and Wed. So for 3 days it just sat there. It was my new bike frame worth about $300, when they finally delivered it, they just left it on my door step in plain sight. I was at work, so I had to call my dad to drive out to my house to pick it up so that it would not get stolen.
I can't wait for them to go under.
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- marie, 20 Oct 2008 @ 4:21pm
  
  Re: out of business...
  how old are you> You sound like a child complaining. Have you stopped to think maybe the frame of your bike was outside the normal delivery size. also unless a sig was required what did you want them to do break in and leave it in the living room. Youhave way to much time on your hands my friend
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TheDock22, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:47am

Microsoft did pay insurance
I read a report that Microsoft always buys insurance on their XBox units. DHL's claim is that the train de-railing was outside of their responsibility for the damages goods and therefore the insurance wouldn't cover the damage.

I think the damning evidence against DHL is the fact some Xbox's mysteriously went "missing". If they had delivered every product even if some were damaged their insurance claim might have held. DHL completely neglected to try and recover all the items from the shipment and then also refused reimbursement for any missing item. According to DHL's own numbers they are financially in BIG trouble and about to cut 1500 jobs. If you think it is a coincidence they are refusing to pay Microsoft AND having money trouble you are naive.
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- B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 8:56am
  
  Re: Microsoft did pay insurance
  "I read a report that Microsoft always buys insurance on their XBox units."
  
  [citation needed]
  
  That'd change the case (and the article) an awful lot. Actually... had Microsoft bought insurance on this then there wouldn't be an article at all. The train crashes, the insurance company pays out (or gets into a fight with Microsoft) and MAYBE there's a fight between DHL and the insurance company. With insurance in the picture there is no suit between Microsoft and DHL.
  
  The fact that Microsoft is suing contradicts your statement.
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  - nasch, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:21am
    
    Re: Re: Microsoft did pay insurance
    Not necessarily, seems to me. If MS bought insurance from DHL, then they would need to go to DHL to get paid. If DHL doesn't want to file a claim with their insurance company for whatever reason (such as increased premiums perhaps), then they could stonewall, leading MS to file suit against DHL. Am I missing something?
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    - B, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:40am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Microsoft did pay insurance
      Oh, if Microsoft bought the insurance from DHL you're absolutely correct... but if Microsoft actually does insure the xbox units the whole way down the supply chain then it's a bit unlikely that they're using DHL for insurance. They probably have a third party do it.
      
      Honestly though, if this was an insurance suit I think it would have been mentioned in the article. The article made it sound like this is based on the damaged goods (so liability) not an insurance claim.
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      - DS, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:16pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Microsoft did pay insurance
        Unless you know about transportation, please don't speculate. Small package is not the same as rail. It has nothing to do with 'insurance'.
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        nasch, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:10pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Microsoft did pay insurance
        A) Bite me, we will speculate all we want. If you don't like reading speculation, don't read comments on blogs. If you haven't noticed already, they're full of uninformed speculation, much of it far dumber than anything posted to this topic. B) Whether you call it "insurance" or not, and whether MS bought any or not, the concept is the same. Party A pays some money to Party B, and if Bad Thing X happens, Party B pays a bunch of money to party A. "Credit default swaps" follow the same pattern and IMO could just as accurately be called insurance.
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David, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:01am

DHL loop of Hell!!
I bought a camera off of e-bay it was being shipped from Dallas,Tx to Tulsa,Ok (6hr Drive by Car)my package left on a Monday eve. went to kansas city, Ks where it showed it arrived, it was shipped back to Dallas.Tx where it showed it had arrived, it was then shipped back to Kansas City, Ks where it showed it had arrived it was then shipped back to Dallas, Tx where it showed it had arived--No nothing is wrong with your PC this went on for almost Two weeks before i could get someone from the DHL corparate office to actually go down to the dock and pull my package finaly after roughly 2wks of DHL Hell!! my package arrived Federal Express. They are the worst!!!!
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Manny, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:03am

DHL is Horrible
I guess the unpaid legal defense team for DHL has shown up. Seriously, I constantly have to report unsafe DHL drivers who speed through neighborhoods, school zones, etc. Then the shipping manager here at work refuses to deal with DHL. All the sensitive material that we have received in the past is absolutely obliterated by the time it gets to us. So he tells clients that we do not accept DHL shipments. Period. I also have a personal rule against them as well. They have been bad in the past, and will continue to be bad. I agree with the comment earlier about the drivers looking like they just got hired via work release. Seriously!
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:10am

DHL is horrible. Any package I have received from them is beat to all hell.
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Denis Heidenreich, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:17am

DHL
Personally I make a point of telling any company that ships with DHL to look for an alternative. From signature requiring packages clearly marked "Do not leave in direct sunlight" basking on my front step when I arrvie home at the end of the day to finding a package tucked behind the garbage can beside the garage door at the back of my condo I often wonder how they stay in business.Did I mention my delivery of fine wine found in the shrubs?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:18am

We use DHL here at work and it is the only shipping company that will reliably do overnight deliveries for us. I have never had a problem with them myself
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:48pm
  
  Re:
  We use FedEx for overnight deliveries all over the US. I've been with the company since January and ship several things a day. I've never had any issue with FedEx.
  
  UPS, my overnight things I paid to be shipped overnight tend to be delivered in 2-3 days. But they show up (I've worked local sort here for them, I know they're understaffed and underequpped in my area).
  
  DHL... We use them strictly for Ground shipments and only because they were the cheapest. Everything we send ground in the NW arrives the next day, even boonville locations.
  
  DHL is the bane of domestic shipping and overnight commercial shipping though. Dell uses them for all their shipping because they have an airstrip right by their warehouse. We consistently have packages arrive late that were supposed to be Next Business Day.
  
  Needless to say we spend a lot of time pointing at our SLA.
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Watcher, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:30am

Re: coming up next, a story about religion
Well just because the case relates to a tech company doesn't mean us who are true Techs care to read about it. What are you going to do next...report on their bathroom stalls? We want true technical news not just any news that happens to relate to a technical entity.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:46am
  
  Re: Re: coming up next, a story about religion
  exactly
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Petréa Mitchell, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:34am

Odd
Here's the complaint (PDF) and Exhibit A (PDF again), but that doesn't clear up much.

I feel like we're missing some crucial part of the story. Minor derailments happen from time to time, and mature, established companies like Microsoft, DHL, the railroad, and their various insurers should have standard, watertight agreements about who pays what to whom under these circumstances.
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Mark, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:40am

DHL is worst by far but others aren't always so hot.
I have almost never had a good experience with DHL and do my best to avoid them and that matches what I hear from friends and co-workers.
However my worst experience was with a UPS delivery of(I'm about to date myself here) prototype/pre-release Atari ST's. I worked at Scott Adam's Adventure International and the software developers had been waiting for this shipment. We were all outside watching as the driver began to THROW the boxes out of the back of his truck to the ground. Two were on the ground before we could even comprehend the travesty and a third was on its way as we all started yelling at him. This moron had thrown boxes of monitors and computers to the ground without a thought in his head. Feel free to imagine the damage...
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Eric, 14 Oct 2008 @ 9:55am

Avoid them if you can, but I'm not so lucky...
To go to work each morning, I have to turn at an intersection where there is a DHL hub on the other side of the road where I am turning from. As an organization, they are the rudest and most discourteous drivers I have ever encountered (even including tow truck drivers). They have no respect for right of way and I usually have to stop in the median until I dont even see anyone pulling up at all. I can't count the number of close calls I have almost had with the front end of a DHL truck.
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J, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:04am

I live in Japan and often order stuff from Amazon in the U.S., which used to be on the other side of the Pacific Ocean from Japan. For the past year or so, though, Amazon has been using DHL as its shipping agent, and now Seattle, where Amazon is located, and Japan are separated by most of the U.S., the Atlantic, Europe and the rest of Asia. DHL actually ships my orders via Germany. Where my things used to arrive in six day never fail, they now take more than a month.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:22am

only one question here
did they take the insurance on said shipment?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:23am

Good Fact Checking
What?????

FTA:
According to VG Chartz, which aims "to provide the most accurate, up to date and comprehensive videogame sell-through charts in the world," the leading video game console worldwide as of October 4 was the Sony PS3, with 388,472 sold, and the Xbox X360 a poor second with 30,624 sold.
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- D, 14 Oct 2008 @ 11:22am
  
  Re: Good Fact Checking
  What's the time frame on those numbers? They seem awfully low, not to mention inaccurate. All the numbers I've seen show that the 360 is outselling the PS3 each month worldwide.
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Whirler, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:34am

DHL are crooks
I purchased the very first Moto Q PDA from Verizon's website when it came out. What I got via DHL? A cheap; used; non-working (no battery) LG phone in my opened Moto Q Box. After dealing with DHL and Verizon for 5 months I finally got my money back. I consider myself lucky because I had to open a fraud investigation and DHL was unresponsive so Verizon refunded my money. I guess this happens more than I thought.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 12:08pm

I had a printer shipped to my by DHL. I went to pick it up at the depot and they attempted to give me a flat box that was soaked in what appeared to be black ink. I re-fused the delivery. I have no idea how the supplier dealt with it but I made sure that my credit card was not billed.
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Fred Elbel, 14 Oct 2008 @ 3:01pm

DHL: consistently substandard service
For a period of over 4 years, DHL has misdelivered ALL shipments to me from Dell, including computers, monitors, and other equipment. There were probably 8-9 such incidents.

DHL company policy is that if no one is there, to leave a note on the door and retry the next day. So I always taped a note to my door saying "if no one is here, leave package at office and leave note on the door." In addition, my shipping labels said the same thing.

DHL would NEVER leave a note of any kind on the door. Each time, I complained to corporate and to the local Denver DHL office. I even got followup call-backs from corporate and the regional manager saying they would fix their problem.

One time, I stopped by the office on routine business, and checked the back room - to my surprise my emergency replacement monitor had been sitting there for 4 days. DHL never notified me.

Another time, the driver misdelivered the monitor to the wrong address. Because I had just complained to the regional office, the driver called me up and personally apologized and said he would deliver the package that afternoon.

I was absolutely floored to find that after two days, the package still was not delivered. No note, no call, no nothing. And I was here during delivery hours during those days. So I checked in the office and... DHL had simply placed the package in the back room.

Why was there never a note on the door? Because the DHL driver never, ever, went to the door! He cut corners by bulk-dropping packages in the main office, contrary to company policy, notwithstanding complaints.

DHL NEVER fixed their problem and never improved their service.

Friends do not let friends ship via DHL.

I also complained to Dell. By the way, when you order from Dell, you have the option of electing UPS shipment. They don't tell you this, so be sure to specify UPS. I have never had any problems at all with UPS and will only use UPS (and Fedex) for company shipments.

Fred
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2008 @ 3:12pm

I had a DHL guy *throw* a box containing a monitor down right in front of me, then run when I asked for his name. I only wish ill for this company.
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Darlene, 14 Oct 2008 @ 6:02pm

DHL
I worked for DHL for over 18 years--and if they didn't pay YOU, YOU DIDN't pay the .70 per hundred to insure.(over the 100. value that they DO cover)

All freight companies have issues--and I have heard many stories of the other bigs ones as well.
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Jane, 14 Oct 2008 @ 10:34pm

I worked for DHL--not my favorite job because of the shoddy way they treat their employees. That said, DHL doesn't own the railroad and DHL employees don't drive the train. If MS requested and paid for insurance, the cargo will be covered for the insured value. If they didn't request insurance, they're SOL. Had this cargo been on board a vessel and the vessel sank, not only would they be SOL on the value of their products they could also be billed for the cost of the lost vessel! Sounds crazy, but it is true. Insurance is essential when shipping via air, ocean, road or rail.
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Manuel Espina, 15 Oct 2008 @ 1:57am

Si Bulbul
Ang dildo ay isang uri ng kahoy o goma na korteng burat na nilalabas pasok sa pwet ni kawabata,kobayashi,sakuma,tomi,funaki at bunganga ni bulbul castaneda.pls pass this to your frens.thanks
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Shipping, 18 Oct 2008 @ 6:30am

Train
So microsoft requested DHL as their service provider, and because of the mass quantity of the shipments they moved them via train. Why would DHL be liable? Did they own the train company? I really doubt DHL owns trains, so the train company would be liable. Just because the package has a DHL label on it doesn't mean they are the company that is shipping it; because the quantity, DHL probably paid the train company to transport the packages.
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