Sued For Libel Over eBay Feedback
from the truth-is-a-defense-against-libel... dept
There's been plenty of criticism over eBay's feedback system over the years, and recently the company famously stopped allowing sellers to give feedback, since many sellers were using it as a weapon to force buyers to give good feedback, or risk getting bad feedback themselves. However, the latest outrage over eBay's feedback system seems a bit silly. A seller in the UK is suing a buyer for libel for his eBay feedback.In this case, the buyer bought a mobile phone, but was disappointed that the phone was beat up and not the model that was advertised. He complained to the seller, sent it back and asked for a refund -- which was given. However, he then posted feedback saying: "Item was scratched, chipped and not the model advertised on Mr Jones's eBay account." From the sound of things, this was accurate. The seller, unfortunately, seemed to think that because he refunded the purchase, that the feedback was now libelous. It's hard to see how he has much of a case (even in the UK where libel laws are much stricter). The feedback was accurate. The fact that the seller agreed to take back the phone and refund the difference doesn't change that.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
God...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This is merely semantics, but libel laws are more loose and easier to bring in the UK. In the US, because of that whole freedom of speech thing, libel laws are more difficult and strict for people bringing such claims.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Did the Buyer say...
I always wonder about the stuff that isn't said in such articles.
Can sellers still comment on feedback? If so, why didn't the seller do so, saying he was sorry for problems and provided a full refund?
Can the seller still complain to eBay and try to remove feedback? Did the seller take that route?
Did the buyer say anything like "seller provided full refund"? I think it would have been good for the buyer to say that in his feedback.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Did the Buyer say...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RE
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sounds like seller is retaliating a different way
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I for one would make blame sure I don't misrepresent anything or send somebody the wrong item, and if I did, I would fully expect bad feedback. Seriously, how many honest, upright people are actually left in this world? I think eBay really needs to start enforcing their rules based on their feedback system. If somebody is getting repeated feedback with statements like "did not receive the item advertised", there needs to be consequences and an investigation.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I can understand why the seller is P'd.
While the feed back is true, it is incomplete. Maybe it "should" say . "Item was scratched, chipped and not the model advertised on Mr. Jones' eBay account, but seller did take back phone, refunded money, although this was still a hassle and bad advertising."
Its fine to give negative feed back, but at least give the whole story. The buyer is only getting a phone out of it, whereas the seller may depend on sales in order to eat.
My 2 cents
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
So what? From the sounds of it the buyer hasn't done anything wrong, all he did was say the phone was damaged and the incorrect model.
The buyer is under no legal, or moral obligation to vindicate the seller.
If the seller wants to be successful, without scamming people, he shouldn't send broken phones to paying customers.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
it was pretty nice feedback
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Unfortunate
Alas, though, this lawsuit is ridiculous because the feedback was accurate. I would much rather see the precedent for a legitimate libel case.
As far as his feedback being incomplete, ebay only allows so many characters. The buyer has to choose what aspect of the sale was most important to highlight. If a seller fraudulently sold me something other than what was posted, you can bet I would leave negative feedback, refund or not. It leads to a huge hassle on my part. I hope the buyer counter-sues for legal expenses and damages.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stupidity, greed, or pride?
The reason for the suit must be based on stupidity, greed, or pride. A business person would have ignored the feedback and changed procedures to insure the situation was not repeated.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Maybe it's eBay's fault...
Maybe situations like this wouldn't occur if eBay allowed unlimited-length reviews. Look at almost any item at Amazon: people leave paragraphs' worth of information.
Doesn't this give customers a far better picture of the item than a short one-sentence description like "cool DVD"?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
time seller feedback went away - feedback extortion
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: time seller feedback went away - feedback extortion
If that were true, it would logically follow that the seller has completed their obligation by shipping you the correct item in the specified amount of time. However, if you believe that they should leave you good feedback for doing the minimum as a customer, then you should leave good feedback when they did the minimum as a seller.
The buyer/seller relationship should go both ways.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: time seller feedback went away - feedback extortion
I have seen the same thing in nearly every auction I've won: the seller won't leave feedback until the buyer does. I actually had a situation where I paid for an item and the seller failed to ship it for nearly two months. It wasn't until I threatened to leave negative feedback for the transaction that I got a "sorry, I was sick, here's your purchase" email and received the item a few days later.
The first thing I do before I bid on eBay is look at the seller's feedback rating. If they have a few thousand transactions and only one or two are negative I usually will ignore it. Particularly when the feedback came from a buyer who only had one or two transactions on their account. If the seller has an excess of negative feedback I will not buy from them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: time seller feedback went away - feedback extortion
Plus I am amazed at the amount of buyers that don't leave feedback even when I immediately gave them positive feedback after they paid for the item. I have sent many buyers e-mails asking them if they received the product, which I knew they did because we both had the tracking number, and if they were happy with their purchase. I sell brand new watches and typically ship the same day or within 24 hours and I offer free shipping for all of my watches. I am confident and stand behind my products that is why I am willing to immediately give feedback. If I sold a bogus watch to someone I would do the same thing because they held their end of the bargain, which is to pay for the item.
Some may read this and say that entitlement is my problem but I call it common courtesy and
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
N of one
I initially had some customer service issues with him, but he then bent over backward to make sure my order was completed to my satisfaction. In doing so, he indirectly suggested to me that there was an implied social contract that if he provides good customer service I would turn around and give him a positive review.
While I recognize that his rating is extremely important to his business, the trading of service for rating seemed a little seamly to me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A sellers perspective
This is not the case, think about it. Feedback should only be provided by both buyer & seller once the buyer has confirmed receipt of goods, is happy with merchandise, and all after-sales service, if necessary, has been provided. How does the seller know that the buyer is happy with the transaction unless the buyer communicates this? What better way for a buyer to confirm this than by leaving positive feedback?
Additionally, ebay allows sellers to automatically leave reciprical positive feedback, meaning that whenever a buyer leaves a positive, they automatically receive one in return from the seller. For powersellers, rooting through individual transactions, and leaving individual positive comments, is time that could be much better spent on providing actual customer service.
Ebay's feedback system has been a joke since it's inception, lately things have gotten worse for both buyers and sellers (particularly sellers as buyer can no longer receive negative feedback!) with the removal of the "mutual feedback withdrawal agreement" facility. This feature allowed buyer and seller to complete a short online form to remove any feedback comments which may have been left in haste, or through a simple misunderstanding. Without this feature, there is almost nothing a seller can do to have negative feedback removed from their account, even if the buyer accepts that the negative comment was unwarranted.
Why is feedback so important to sellers?
This seems obvious dosen't it? The answer is quite clearly that the seller may lose future sales as a result of negative feedback left on their account. Right? Well yes, partly. This is what's called an 'intangible effect', meaning that there is no actual way of measuring the effect the negative comment has on the sellers future sales performance. However there can be a tangible effect too. This comes in the form of the ebay powerseller program, which awards sellers discounts on fees (ranging from 20% - 40%) based upon sales levels and, crucially, customer service performance. Obviously, customer service performance is measured using the ebay feedback program, therefore negative feedback left for sellers for spurious reasons, in haste, as a result of a mis-understanding etc can have a tangible effect on the ebay sellers fees, should they happen to lose their discount as a result. This is'nt just about "Someone's feelings are hurt over the feedback that guy left what a freaking ashame.", many small and medium sized businesses operate on ebay, therefore to lose between a 20% - 40% discount on (expensive) fees is no small matter.
Therefore, unless ebay's feedback system is yet again overhauled, it seems that a sellers only way to try and tackle negative feedback will be through the courts. In this case, the seller has not indicated any tangible losses, so we have to assume that he is looking to sue for intangible losses. Personally, while I too would be disappointed to receive negative feedback over a simple mistake which was later rectified, I find the sellers case a little lightweight for a courtroom, and can't see him winning anything. However, a court case where 'tangible losses' could be presented would be interesting to follow.
Happy ebaying
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RE THE ABOVE COMMENTS
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
can feedback remove
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
free new Ebay, PayPal, Ebay suspensions, PayPal limited, business and law forums
Feedback removal is a heavy topic there.
The forum has a lot of expert advice on it. http://www.modeeworld.com/forums I found advice there about how to avoid EBAY suspensions, get past PayPal limitations, also lots of detailed help on creating your own business, getting past trademark violations, VERO and lots more. Plus general advice on how best to sell on EBAY, what sells the best, how to get the best price for your product, really everything related to EBAY and internet business.
Also advice about how EBAY really works and how PayPal really works. The inside scoop.
Beautiful forum. I was made a moderator of the forum and I love it!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I applaude this seller for filing suit
Some of the buyers are obnoxious. I've given full refunds, including shipping, without any discussion, negotiation and had buyers refuse to cancel transactions so I get ebay fees refunded. As far as I'm concerned, if you give a full refund there is no transaction on which to base a negative feedback. I say to this seller, rake this guy over the coals. Show him that if you make trouble for people they may make trouble for you. Win or lose you will help all ebay sellers. Wish I had the time & the money to do this myself. To all the buyers on this thread who think the buyer has been wronged - do you really think negative feedback is warranted when you get you get your money back? If so, I hope you get sued too.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Applause
[ link to this | view in chronology ]