Blu-ray Working Great, For Pirates
from the unintended-consequences dept
Blu-ray "won" the next-generation DVD standards battle, but that victory has, thus far, been pretty hollow, as consumers haven't wholeheartedly embraced the new format (and the new DVD players they need to take advantage of it). But one group of people is loving Blu-ray: Asian movie pirates. The pirates rip Blu-ray movies, then burn them onto DVDs using the AVCHD format, at a resolution that's lower than Blu-ray, but still higher than standard DVDs. The lower resolution means the pirates can burn onto regular blank DVDs, not blank Blu-ray discs, holding their costs down and creating fat profit margins on the $7 bootlegs. Wasn't one of the reasons the movie industry was so hot on Blu-ray its fantastic DRM that was supposed to make life hell for pirates? All it appears to have really done is annoy customers, while Blu-ray itself is making the pirates' business even better.
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Think about the contempt Sony has for its legitimate customers. The way overpriced proprietary memory stick for the PSP. The lack of MP3 support in Sony's initial portable music players. Root-kits. The constantly changing DRM associated with Blu-ray. To name a few.
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe Sony is being run by pirates? Every decision it makes seems more designed to help pirates and hurt legitimate customers. It's just something to think about.
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I don't think Sony is in league w/ the pirates. I think Sony is just run by incompetent, ignorant morons.
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Puh-leeeze
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Re: Puh-leeeze
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It is classic
I used to be a big fan of Sony, back in the '80s, their quality in electronics gave you a reason to buy. They have lost that drive to satisfy the customer, and are only looking to protect themselves.
Sony is not even on my radar anymore as a place I would turn to for electronics. I'd rather give it to an up and comer, who wants to make something I want to use.
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Re: It is classic
every time some1 i know complain about some Sony product they git i reply "serves you right to ask for my advice and go the opposite way"
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Re: Re: It is classic
Oh, and FYI
"the British call a contemptible person a `git'"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/git
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Since my experience with SECUROM, I do not do any business with a companies that treats its customers as criminals and INFECTS their computers with that virus called SECUROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM
"The use of SecuROM is highly controversial because certain aspects of the protection are similar to functions of malware, and users are not always informed when SecuROM is included with a product.[1] A class action suit has been filed against Electronic Arts for this very issue."
SERVES THEM RIGHT! Long live the DVD!
Not 1 cent to Sony!
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How about comparing the originals instead of making useless comparisons?
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I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
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Re: I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
http://www.oneworldsims.com/the-sas/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61& Itemid=81
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Re: I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
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Re: I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
The PS3 is the only BluRay player that will "always" work. Sony "updates" BluRay and the 500+ dollar BluRay player you bought for your PC won't work with the new version, so you have to rebuy. The PS3 has an Internet connection and gets updated by Sony to work with the new BluRay update.
Also, its a damn game console. Most people are used to the fact that the game from a N64 won't run on a GameCube. That kind of built in DRM/propriatariness is somewhat acceptable. The real problem is with *EVERY* BluRay player that is NOT the PS3 in regards to movies.
Seriously, how pissed would you be if you sprung a few hundred dollars for a DVD player and then they come out with DVD2 and your player won't read them and you have to spring for a few hundred more just to watch new releases?
That's exactly what the issue with BluRay is in regards to DRM. Aside from the higher price tag...
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Re: Re: I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
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Re: Re: I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFVXcaw8RWQ
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Re: I haven't even noticed DRM on the PS3
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Convenience is the name of the game..
Sure there is the ethics of it, but from a convenience stand-point, why?
What they need to do is solve the convenience problem and make their distribution easier, priced right, and allow the end-user to copy as wanted to portable devices, etc. without ANY hassle. You'll still have pirates, but it will keep honest folks honest.
What I don't understand at all is why someone would pay $30 or more for a BR movie. To me that idea that a movie is worth $30 is nuts with the market size today. Despite the higher production costs, to me a movie is less valuable then music. I might listen to music over and over again but I rarely watch a movie more than once - sure there are exceptions, but in general once is all. For that I pay $30 for a restricted piece of media and a player that needs to be linked back to home base for constant firmware updates - yippie! I can't even make a copy to play on a portable media player for my kids when traveling if I buy a legit BR disc with spending even more to hack, etc. Heck, for that sort of premium I should have preloaded non-DRM'd copies for portable players on the disc itself ready to be copied - more options, not less.
Give me an unrestricted download for under $5 and an unrestricted BR disc for under $10 and I'm there and so probably are a bunch of other folks including those that pirate. After you have a good system in place for legit purchases then fit to make the pirate route harder and less convenient then yours.
Freedom
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Re: Convenience is the name of the game..
Bingo, I totally agree. 99% of all movies and TV I watch is discarded and never watched again. I'm just lucky enough to hvae a 24Mbit unlimited, uncapped, unthrottled connection and a sweet ass newsgroup subscription ;-)
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Re: Convenience is the name of the game..
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Is 720p considered hi-def?
but are actually DVDs for $7. They will still play on Blu-ray
players but not on DVD players.
These AVCHD bootleg discs provide 720p instead of the full 1080p.
As mentioned, this is still a step up from 480i from regular DVDs.
Would the customer notice the that they are not getting the full
Hi-Def from these bootleg discs? Would $7 be too much compared
to a DVD bootleg? Or would 720p be "good enough"?
Knowing Sony et.al., we might see a future firmware update that
disable the AVCHD playback feature for all customers.
If people still wants to get a full 1080p, and not get burnt on a 720p
disc, we may end up with pirates getting a reputation of providing a
product of known quality.
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Re: Is 720p considered hi-def?
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Re: Is 720p considered hi-def?
If you have a small living room, e.g. apartment, a 720p-only TV will be just as good. Plus, 720p screens are nearly $500 cheaper or more, since they are usually smaller sized too.
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If you don't want your stuff pirated
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Sour Grapes, much?
Those are the same people who have tiny, little 42" and smaller TVs, where BR and upconverted DVD look virtually the same, especially 10 feet away on your couch.
Well, they don't look the same on my 65" HDTV. Yes, upconverted DVD looks OK, but BR is perfect. There is a huge difference and only the legally blind (or stupid) can't see it.
Now maybe I'm some kind of special case, in that I like to watch movies and sports in full HD and actually take advantage of a superior experience. Maybe I'm special because I enjoy a crystal-clear picture and enhanced digital audio. Then again, I don't think I'm a special case at all. I just decided not to listen to all the idiots who said it was too hard, too expensive, has too much DRM, and assorted other nonsense.
DRM is a non-issue. If I really want a movie to own, I'll buy it. $20-$30 isn't really too much to pay for the BR experience on a huge TV, when you know you're going to watch that movie dozens of times. What, you don't think you'll watch it over and over again? Pro-tip: Don't buy it, rent it instead. Like anyone, I would like BR to be cheaper, and in time it will be, but I'm not going to bitch and moan about it. IT IS THE BEST HOME VIEWING OPTION AVAILABLE FOR MOVIE LOVERS, PERIOD! Unless you have the misfortune to have purchased an HDTV that's too small to tell the difference, that is.
And now more and more new BR titles are coming out with the digital copy option, so you have the BR disc for home viewing on your big screen, and a digital copy that will play from your PC or personal player.
For the record, my TV, BR player and home theater system combined cost under $2500, which is probably less than many of the whiners paid for their much smaller HDTV by itself if they went with LCD or plasma.
Just please stop crying, crybabies.
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Re: Sour Grapes, much?
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Re: Sour Grapes, much?
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Re: Sour Grapes, much?
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Re: Sour Grapes, much?
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Re: Re: Sour Grapes, much?
I didn't realize that an ethernet cable and an internet connection were considered "special hardware and cabling".
I have no worries about my setup, except for the cost of the replacement lamps for the DLP TV when they burn out.
BTW: 42" is perfect for the normal single-wide trailer, but for my triple wide, I need the 65". The 42" goes on the outhouse door so I can watch Jerry Springer while I'm "visiting the library".
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Re: Re: Re: Sour Grapes, much?
The only person who seems legally blind (and stupid) here is you. If you really "need" that crap ass rear projected POS just so you can get that 65" in size, then you're a moron. That's proven by the fact that you didn't even bother to get the rear projection TV based on the LED lamp.
Just because you have an obviously tiny penis and need to compensate for it by having a 65" TV and a triple wide ass errr... I mean trailer, doesn't make all the valid points made here somehow invalid.
Condolences on the penis.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Sour Grapes, much?
But as for my POS TV, it has a better, brighter, crisper and clearer picture than any of the avaiable LCDs of the time, and was 6 times less expensive than any LCD or plasma of the same vintage of 60" or more in size. Let me say it again: The only TVs that beat this one for picture quality are plasma, and they were too expensive, IMHO, to even be considered by the average person. Sorry if that makes you feel bad about the huge chunk you laid down for that 42" or smaller set you bought.
I just made the decision that when I finally got a big screen TV, I wasn't going to settle for the small, over-priced TVs that everyone else got duped into buying early in the market.
So I bided my time, finally found a TV with everything I wanted and at the right price and size, and I bought it (at Sear's if you can believe that). Adding Blu-Ray was right for me, as my penis is painfully average in size and my wife says it's big enough to get the job done, anyway. I don't like to steal copyrighted content and can't stand to watch standard definition content on this huge monster if I can help it.
While those of you with circus-large penises can steal content and watch crappy low-def stuff, I guess those of us who are average will go on paying for what we want and getting the better experience for the trouble.
Whatever it takes to rationalize your stance that it's OK to steal content, I guess.
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Chinese-Blu-Rays Have Been Around Since July
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Bluray: for movie geeks only
You heard it from the expert here. If you have a 65" HDTV and your life revolves around movies, then get a Blu-ray. Otherwise don't bother. That seems like reasonable advice.
Just out of curiosity Big Mook, if you didn't go "with LCD or plasma", what did you go with?
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Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
My family now looks forward to movie night, and the NCAA tourney, Super Bowl, etc. make for much better get-togethers.
If this makes me some sort of two-headed freak, then so be it.
I'm just tired of the complaints from losers who want any old excuse to pirate content.
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Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
Ah, thanks, I looked it up and learned something today, thank you.
"My life doesn't revolve around movies and sports, but I'd rather have a near-perfect experience than just OK. Does that really make me so strange?"
Sorry, I was being a little unfair, I apologize. You just have different priorities, but I don't think most people would get their money's worth out of your system, I know I wouldn't.
"I'm just tired of the complaints from losers who want any old excuse to pirate content."
I think there are separate issues here. A lot of people feel that their DVDs are good enough and Bluray down't give them enough added benefit to switch, that is one crowd. Another group hates DRM that stops them from doing what they want with stuff that they have legally bought, and the attitude behind that that made Sony think it is alright to install malware on people's computers to protect their content. A third group just wants free stuff. There is overlap between the groups, but they are not the same.
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Re: Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
"I don't think most people would get their money's worth out of your system, I know I wouldn't."
That speaks well to what kind of system people are using to view the content. If someone is OK with watching their 27" CRT or worse yet, their PC monitor, then DVD or even VHS is sufficient.
I'm comparing the experience to that of the traditional theater, where one can easily lay down $100-$150 for a family movie night (family of 4). At home, the cost is negligible, and while an 80ft. screen and theater sound is definitely better, my home system is excellent and a much better value for the money.
While I agree with your last paragraph for the most part, I still believe the loudest complainers just want something for free, illegally if need be. It is not worth my time or my dime to be able to watch a movie or TV show on a phone, iPod, PSP or any other knick-knack that can't compete with my home theater. And if I'm going to watch it on the home theater, then I want it to look great, not just OK.
@Yakko Warner: Yes, I'm compensating for something. I'm one of the only people evidently who actually pays for what I want and realizes that it's my money and no one is holding a gun to my head to make me spend it. Don't want DRM, don't buy it. But don't steal it, either. Therein lies the problem, eh?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
This coming from someone going around calling people "idiots", "crybabies", "stupid" and "losers"? Take a look in the mirror buddy.
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Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
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Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
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is that what a pirate is?
wow, all this time i thought a pirate was anyone who wanted to use media on their terms rather than the rights holder's.
if pirate sells other people's for profit, i guess i disagree with piracy.
if that's piracy, what do you call someone who just doesn't want to be bothered with incompatible formats, DRM, and commercials?
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Excuse my ignorance and lack of googling.
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When all else fails, you can get it from the manufacturer on a disc that you load into the player.
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McDonald's is 20 miles away, and though I'm not positive, I'd say they don't offer wifi, as they spent a lot of money making the drive-thru accessible via tractor.
I have a dlp also, no cable, and one hell of a netflix subscription.
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Where do you live? My small community has 3 McD's within a 3 mile radius. Didn't know there was anywhere in the civilized world without McD's.
Whoa: Make that 4 in a 3 mile radius. Forgot about the one in Wal-Mart.
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But hey that's awesome thanks for the info, time to update the netflix queue.
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Well, I'm off to update my netflix queue as well, at least until the NXE quits being overloaded.
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Are you kidding me my man?
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Almost had me going there...
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I have an e-meter you might be interested in...
By the way, although The Cruiser is a $cientologist and believes in the whole space cootie thing, I like his movies for the most part, and wouldn't mind seeing at least some of them in Blu-Ray on my massive TV.
Hail Xenu!!
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Heh...
Really, TechDirt, face it: Blu-ray won the war... :D
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Re: Heh...
That's why he used the word victory. It's a hollow victory because it only helps pirates, and regular consumers aren't buying into it.
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Sony won the HD format war. No matter the amount of FUD, BS and hate you losers try to spread, the general public are buying more and more Blu-ray.
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This is what i was hoping anyway!
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The problem with blu-ray
Pirated HD Movies:
Various sources, Blu-Ray, HDDVD, DTheatre and HDTV and any other HD digital source
Able to be recompressed for ipods, phones etc
Able to be backed up easily
Able to be copied to a computer and shared across a network
Able to be copied and shared with friends
Able to work with all capable players, both computer and standalone
Cheap
Good enough quality for probably 90+% of people.
Blue-Ray:
Only movies specifically released on BR.
No facility for ipod, phone versions ( that I know of )
Not possible to backup or copy to a computer.
not always able to work properly with BR players. There has been issues with HDCP and DRM with some players and wont work completely with devices that don’t support HDCP.
More expensive than DVDs and much more expensive than pirated HD movies.
At a high quality that only a small % of people will appreciate.
The problem with Blu-Ray is that it is inferior product that has been crippled by the manufacturer. It is a sad day when the knock-offs are generally better than the original.
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Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
As for "freedom's" comment if you are only 'willing' to pay for a Blue-ray disc if it is less than $10 than you are a pirate (thief) looking for a reason (excuse) to steal media. Don't get me wrong some forms of DRM (namely SecuRom) do go way too far and hurt honest customers to the point it makes the company look like a bully pushing around little kids (EA). But stealing just because you feel it cost too much when other formats exist for much cheaper (with more relaxed forms of DRM) makes you a criminal and a sinner, no differnt than stealing items from a store. If you feel it is too expensive don't buy that format a the company will be forced to change what is making the customers unhappy, Sony HAS noticed that Blue-Ray is not winning over customers from DVD as they had hoped for after winning the format wars so they know something is wrong but when they look to see why and come across comments like your's stating that you would only 'consider' being a customer and not a theif if they sold a top of the line item for less than an inferior format they disregard your comment as the excuses of a theif. Your mentality is clear why buy what can be stolen with ease? As companies see this kind of thinking being preached in forums as a way of life of course they are going to try to stop it before it becomes a run away train but, some do go too far.
Things cost money, Better things cost more money.
Simple economic fact.
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Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
Now, if you're a Christian and you're accusing people who do such things of being thiefs and sinners then you better start doing some serious soul searching, before it's too late. Bearing false witness against Jesus Christ can't be a good thing. Of course, if you're one of those who worship money instead then I suppose you probably don't much care.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
...
Did not think so, But just so you know they are two completely different things.
If I was to use the likeness of Sonic The Hedgehog to sell a product without permission from Sega that is 'copywright infringement'
If I was to download the game Sonic The Hedgehog off of a bit torrent that is 'piracy'
Piracy is taking something with paying for it and without permission.
Taking something with paying for it and without permission is THEFT.
Never did I mention copyright infringement... anywhere...
"Don't want DRM, don't buy it. But don't steal it, either. Therein lies the problem, eh?"
No problem you don't 'NEED' a game you 'want' it so if you don't want the DRM you don't 'need' the game.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
You don't even seem to know the difference between copyrights and trademarks. (And by the way, there's no "w" in "copyright" either).
Taking something with paying for it and without permission is THEFT.
From where is it missing? Maybe the owner should report the theft to the police and file a claim with their insurance company. Of course, once the owner was discovered to still be in possession of "it" they might be charged with filing a false theft report and insurance fraud. Do you know what prison is? That's what lying like that can get you sometimes.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bluray: for movie geeks only
So, if it's legal then how is it theft? If it isn't legal, then what law would you say was violated if not copyright?
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Pull your head out big media
You will not stop piracy with DRM you will only inconvenience your legitimate consumers. The pirates will go merrily along stripping it from your content to the point that they have a better product than your paying customers. You want to stop piracy fine here's how you do it. Make it easier to and cheaper to get the legitmate material than to get the illegal material. Pirates have to search for the material download it convert it to the format they need, burn it ect. Price your media correctly for every possible place, don't limit your customers actions with said media, do the conversion for them, offer it in multiple formats. I'm talking to you content producers no matter what your particular media might be. If your product is an IP product you need to pull your head out of your rear, the internet has been around for a while now you won't be putting the genie back in the bottle anytime soon. For the likes of companies that produce such things as 3D Max, photoshop, dreamweaver how about pricing your products you know in a way that people can actually afford if they aren't leading producers in the graphic/web/publishing biz. If you don't the best you can hope for is that those that can afford it continue to purchase your products, while everyone else either pirates your product or moves to open source software that is comparable learn to work on that and have no need for you anymore. Just my two cents
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Who are the pirates, really?
I know a person who can easily afford to purchase what he wants. Both he and his spouse have high-paying, professional careers.
He has stated that he has over 700 ripped movies in his collection, all on physical DVD media. He rips his copies from his Netflix subscription, and from friends or relatives who have actually purchased the product, and to my knowledge has never purchased a single movie himself.
He doesn't rip it so he can watch it on an iPod, phone, PC, etc. He rips straight to DVD to watch it on his home TV. He also usually makes multiple copies to give away to other people in the process.
Now tell me where he fits into your pro-piracy thinking. If this isn't outright theft, then what is it?
This guy can easily afford to buy the product, but uses and keeps hundreds of ripped movies only to watch on a TV at home, and apparently does this just because he can get away with it, and stick it to the rich movie companies in the process.
I think a lot more of the pirates out there are like this guy than most people would like to admit, but they use the excuses of DRM and high cost to justify their theft in their own minds.
I'm not an MPAA fanboy, but I can see both sides of the issue, and I see the above scenario as outright theft.
Thoughts?
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Re: Who are the pirates, really?
But to answer the rhetorical question, theft involves actually taking something away from someone else, not just copying it. Those who go around calling copyright infringement "theft" are telling lies.
Oh really? You sure sound like an industry shill.
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Re: Re: Who are the pirates, really?
I don't shill for MPAA or any of the **AA's. As a general rule, I believe they're hurting themselves bigtime with the lawsuits and I agree that Sony should be buried under their own wreckage after the rootkit crap.
I have no problem with someone burning all the copies in the world of content they purchased. Decrypt it, clean it up of adverts and warnings, compress it, whatever, to use it the way you want. Really. Where I have to disagree, however, is with all of the people, many in this thread alone, who honestly think it's OK to just copy from anyone and anywhere and never buy anything themselves.
You stated that you believe copying content isn't stealing, and that's how you justify it for yourself. I can't justify that ethically or morally for myself. You live with your actions, I'll live with mine.
Do I believe that some file-sharing actually helps sales? Yes, absolutely. But the producer of that content should get some say as to whether their product is freely shared.
Do I believe that someone who pirates everything and has never contributed a cent to the industry adds value to the system? Absolutely not.
I feel like this is in the same realm as stealing satellite programming. I mean those satellite providers are just beaming that signal willy-nilly down to the earth, and if I just so happen to have a receiver with the right decryption to allow me to watch for free, then I should be off the hook? I don't think so. But in your argument, you're just accessing a copy of something, not the actual product. In the case of satellite, the encrypted programming is the product, so it is theft in my mind to decrypt it and use the content for yourself.
Trying to be reasonable here, but feel like I'm still going to get hammered.
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Re: Re: Re: Who are the pirates, really?
Justify it for myself? Justify what? "Copying content"? I never said that I do that. I just called you out for lying about it being stealing. And as for ethics and morals, how do you justify lying?
Who asked that? Not me. Must be your straw man talking there.
There you go with the infringement=theft lie again. And what do your feelings have to do with it anyway?
The law doesn't say so. It's illegal, but it's not theft.
Well, I'm not, but some people might. And while it may be illegal, it's not theft.
In your mind? Maybe you mind just isn't able to keep to the truth.
Lying is not reasonable. If you want to keep doing so, expect to keep getting rebutted. While you may be trying exercise Goebbels theory that a lie repeated often enough will eventually be accepted as the truth, I don't feel like letting you get away with it today.
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Kidnapping A.I.?
I am of course making the assumption that most of the people have watched Startrek: TNG or have seen the movie Short Circuit.
Ps. I am not siding for or against piracy so don't attack me because you could not see the HUMOR in my comment.
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Look up above ^ call a pirate a theif and sinner then they will call you the ultimate sinner. I do see both sides, EA and Sony are (and have been) abusing legit customers with Virus like DRM and rootkits, and Sony has a bad track record of trying to screw over its customers just Google the pharses 'ps2 disc read error' and 'ps3 ylod' Sony tries to make the customers pay for repairs on a product (still under warranty) that should have been recalled. And EA hides dangerous DRM in it's products that can not be removed from your computer without the help of a program (likely made by {a} pirate{s}) and after the program is paid for they tell you that you may only install it three times?!? So in this case if the legit version is more dangerous than some viruses and the pirate version has had the DRM (SecuRom) removed? ... well I can see why some would pirate Spore. But on the other side of the spectrum someone that makes good money and is ripping and downloading masses of content just have it for free yes that in my mind is a bad thing. The one thing that makes me lean towards calling piracy 'theft' is when someone is making copies of a program made by a small (50 or less employees) company because that has a direct effect on that person's income which is likely not very high to begin with.
Pirate an obese, abusive company - Who cares
Pirate a little, struggling company - Shame on you.
Pirate Music - W ell... Why does a cd with only one good song cost $16-20? Why must a iTunes song be played only on an iPod? I feel the music industry has in most cases resorted to terrorism (if you pirate or we even think you did you will lose your house, car, everything of value and go to jail.) don't feel the same Google 'riaa terrorism' and 'riaa innocent'.
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Re:
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Re: Kidnapping A.I.?
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Re:
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720p blue ray pirate
Have seen pirated blue ray transfers but video resolution is only 720 x 480 SD. Very clear (Copy) but still not HD.
Sound is good DTS-ES 1.5 mbps core.
What is Audio/Video spec for pirated 720P = ??
Cheers!
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Pirate copies never satisfy
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Willing to do without
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Forced Rippers?
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