Are Copyright Holders Purposely Putting Content On P2P In Order To Demand Money?
from the that's-what-we-call-extortion dept
We've discussed the highly questionable activities of UK law firm Davenport Lyons for its supposed campaigns on behalf of various copyright holders. From what we had seen, the firm wasn't particularly interested in actually protecting content from being shared online -- only in threatening as many people as possible with "pre-settlement letters" to get them to pay up to avoid being sued. This certainly feels like what's commonly called extortion, especially, as it came to light that the pre-settlement letters are being sent to many innocent bystanders. Since this is a business model issue (squeezing individuals to pay up) rather than actually being about protecting copyright, it's no surprise that the pre-settlement letters would be sent as widely as possible, even if there was no actual evidence showing guilt.However, the situation may be even worse than originally suspected. In an article about Davenport Lyons' latest client, TorrentFreak notes that the copyright holder may be contracting with a company to purposely spreading the content on file sharing networks for the purpose of making it easier to find people to threaten with pre-settlement letters. There are a number of different players involved here, but basically, copyright holders are licensing the copyright on various movies to a firm called DigiProtect. DigiProtect, in turn, hires Davenport Lyons to send out the pre-settlement letters. But in a leaked contract between DigiProtect and one copyright holder, it's made quite clear in the contractual language, that DigiProtect is expected to upload the movies as widely as possible prior to having a law firm send out the pre-settlement letters:
To achieve the purpose outlined in clause 1, LICENSOR grants DIGIPROTECT the exclusive right to make the movies listed in Appendix 1 worldwide available to the public via remote computer networks, so-called peer-2-peer and internet file sharing networks such as e-Donkey, Kazaa, Bitorrent, etc. for the duration of this agreementIn other words, it's quite clear that this has nothing to do with preventing content from getting on file sharing networks. Instead, they're specifically putting it there themselves, apparently hoping to get it as widespread as possible, in order to send out the threat letters more widely, so they can collect on the "settlements" from people scared that they're about to get sued. It's hard to see how that's not a massive abuse of copyright law.
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Filed Under: copyright, extortion, pre-settlement, scams
Companies: davenport lyons, digiprotect
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Legal implications?
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Re: Legal implications?
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surprise?
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Correct me if I'm wrong...
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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong...
In this case, all the complaints are null and void and you can legally download the content of whomever is a party to that contract. They signed away the distribution rights online and DIGIPORT was told to spread it far and wide.
You can't reasonably expect, under the UK or US law system anyways, to "distribute" something without people having received it.
I expect the discovery stage of some lawsuits may turn very interesting.
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Authorized share
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Or it could be that . . .
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Re: Or it could be that . . .
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Re: Re: Or it could be that . . .
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1. Submit files to file sharing sites
2. People download it
2a. Sue people for infringement
2b. Downloaders are free marketing force
3. PROFIT!
Looks like we've all been fooled.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel strongly that a copyright holder putting content on publicly accessible areas of the web is a defacto invitation to the public copy at will. Nevertheless, these guys are engaged in some really sleazy tactics that will likely get them disbarred.
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To see the Davenport Lyons cases as comparable to the Flickr photographer case, you'd have to have people taking the distributed games, remixing them into their own software, releasing the software, and then having D.L. suing them.
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QUIET! You'll give them ideas!
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Immunity
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Re: Immunity
You are not a lawyer, and it's a good thing based on what you read.
Nobody has or can or will be sued for downloading material. It's a debate about being sued for sharing material.
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Re:
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Making porn available to minors
This is for sure now a child protection issue that needs to be addressed by the Police here in the UK as well as child related welfare organisations.
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Re: Making porn available to minors
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Question
I'm sure that RIAA, MPAA, BSA has similar agreements with their legal teams. For purposes of documentation they would have to download an entire file to ensure it is actually the file in question. Of course it could be argued that the legal firm would not neccessarily "HAVE" to upload the file (uploads can be turned off entirely on most programs).
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Re: davenport lyons
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Then execute
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For those too lazy to click on links
http://www.zahnarzt-dr-mueller.com/Vertrag_Digi/Vertrag.pdf
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im sure most of you heard of Peer guardian all ready also all P2P software ive used you have an IPfilter.
then again it could be a new trend.
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Divided we Fall
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If davenport Lyons send out threatening letters saying it's illegal copying, they are telling lies. Which is illegal under the Fraud Act 2006.
And if DigiProtect were in on it, then they are members of a criminal conspiracy.
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Now, there is 4 of us living together, and we, as a household, have received one of those letters.
What is the latest update on this issue? Do they follow up on their threats or what? What did your friend do? Pay up? Ignored the letter? Defended themselves in court?
I am reading a lot of opinions, suggestions, comments, but I would appreciate something more factual. Moderators comments very welcome as well, maybe you know better!
Thank you in advance!
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This blog confused me.
"It's hard to see how that's not a massive abuse of copyright law."
We should be outraged! We should put all these people in jail (on computer fraud charges, no less)! We should fight back!
Nah, we should just accept this as typical business operations which have been going on for years. You make it sound like this is something new and we should worry it's happening in this country.
Well, let me put those worries to rest: It IS happening here, and just like in the UK, it's also intentional.
This is what happens when companies take it upon themselves to use loopholes in the system (THEY didn't upload the file, so they used someone else) to gain revenue via other means.
Or does this economic crisis teach you nothing?
Why do you think I don't buy music or movies anymore? Do you think I want to give up my entertainment? Of course not! But with NO ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS, I'm stuck with my old library of movies and games to "entertain" myself until these industries quick screwing over consumers.
So don't sit here and try to scare the public this could happen, especially without giving them options to address it.
As long as consumers buy these industry's products, the more stories like these you will "print" to the world.
Nothing should shock you anymore at the practices these businesses take to generate "revenue".
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Re: This blog confused me.
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legal scmmers
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Porno
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?
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p2p scammers
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DL and Digiprotect
The letter is very explicit in that they are complaining about about having been able to download a file from my computer - not that I have downloaded from elsewhere - I'd very much be interested in knowing if they have a leg to stand on here (specifically under UK law). I certainly don't have the the file now - not even very sure I ever did, but it's not impossible...
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Re: DL and Digiprotect
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We also had the letter. I work at the Citizens Advice and they checked it out for me and they said it was unfortunate but i should pay it. Its really upset me. Make sure you get proof of posting and monitor your bills. Glad we are not alone in this predicament buts its one hell of wad of cash to fork out just before Christmas.
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Re: DL, Digiprotect, Copyrights and P2P
An essaic commentary to the discussion at http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081119/0334182883.shtml
by Max Gigawatt, 27 August 2010
In my not so humble opinion, Davenport Lyons (DL) has engaged in privately operating that which only police agencies are permitted to do... an ENTRAPMENT scheme. Thus they (DL) are *clearly* engaging in a massive CRIMINAL ACTIVITY of tremendous seriousness, or have done so. They have, in effect, set themselves up as THE POLICE, and have implicitly IMPERSONATED THE POLICE for PURPOSES of EXTORTION.
Furthermore, they have been part of a CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY with DigiProtect AND the original copyright holders, who all are thus also guilty of conspiring to IMPERSONATE THE POLICE for PURPOSES of EXTORTION.
Don't anyone pay them, ever! It would be like paying a ransom to kidnappers... it only encourages them to break the Law more and more.
The no-good, lying bastards would not DARE to bring a case to Court, for they would immediately be unmasked and revealed as the cowardly, conniving Criminals that they are!
Furthermore, the entire Copyright Debate is a Red Herring! When you download or upload "a photograph", "a movie" or "a song", etc., you are NOT transferring the ORIGINAL WORK... only a (usually highly degraded) COPY, which, being digital, suffers from all manner of "sampling and conversion errors" and DOES NOT DUPLICATE THE ORIGINAL WORK, which Original Work was (mostly if not entirely) a product of mechanisms which are INHERENTLY ANALOG, such as lenses, chemical processes, paint brushes, guitars, the human voice, etc., etc.; in short: The Real Thing. It is as though (the heirs, agents and assigns of) Leonardo da Vinci were to claim that photographic reproductions of "the Mona Lisa" ARE "the Mona Lisa", and that your possession, duplicating and exchange of such copy or copies is DEPRIVING THEM OF THE ORIGINAL! Clearly such an argument by them is best described in polite company as "a vast load of bovine excrement!"
If one goes back to the original intent and purpose of Copyrights, it will be seen that they were a 'Special Dispensation' and 'for the Public Good' and were made for TWO REASONS ONLY:
1. To facilitate and promote the WIDESPREAD DISTRIBUTION of the author's 'brainchild': his most carefully chosen thoughts as crafted into words, the Printed Word in that case; and only secondarily...
2. To help Publishers recover the Capital Investments in their Printing Presses, because without printing presses, no such Public Benefit via Widespread Distribution would have been possible at that time.
That this 'Special Dispensation, for the Public Good' allowed the publishers to make a Profit is at most a minor part of the original situation, and strictly speaking, is only relevant to the extent that such profits, ASSUMED AS being fairly shared with Authors, would *tend to* encourage authors to be more prolific in producing one brainchild after another... but that is about Quantity, not Quality, and is thus not a matter of Public Good. Even the ancients had an appreciation for someone filtering out the "garbage" for them, and they were *far* less busy than we are. In antiquity (when books were copied by hand, a months-long process), the Authors were mostly never paid a red cent. Some may have had a benefactor who paid them a stipend for the duration of writing, or a one-time commission, but there was never any notion of any kind of per-copy remuneration... Perish the thought!
That the Printer's Copyright laws were later expanded and generalized to include other forms of media (and the reproduction and distribution of such media) should not be interpreted as erasing the Original Purpose and Intent of Copyrights. To the contrary, those later extensions should be viewed as steps which seemed necessary and expedient at the time, but which were based on the same old technology-at-the-time kind of considerations. Those considerations no longer apply; the march of technology has brought us to the point where every man, woman and child is now easily capable of publishing any "brainchild" of their choosing to the entire world, almost instantly, and at close to zero cost.
You should see now that P2P file exchange is the modern equivalent of the Movable Type (Gutenberg) Printing Press... it maximizes the WIDESPREAD DISTRIBUTION of the Artists' brainchild or "Content", whether that be still images, audio, video, 3D or whatever may come next. That it cuts the MIDDLEMEN out of the equation is neither here nor there; the only reason they were ever granted Special Dispensation is because of the particular (rare and expensive) state of duplicating technology AT THE TIME, hundreds of years ago.
Nowadays, the Public Good seems to have been largely and 'conveniently' forgotten in favor of Endless Unearned Profits, while the Widespread Distribution of an Artist's brainchild is generally only hampered and impeded by those old Copyright Laws, acting as they do to "fill the vacuum" in which the just and proper Artists' Compensation Scheme should have evolved. Unfortunately, those old Laws did not come bearing an Expiration Date or Sunset Clause... but they should have!
Finally, the media industry groups which make these absurd claims of "copyright infringement" know perfectly well that THEY are the TRUE PIRATES, in that they attempt use their shyster shenanigans to rob everyone else, the Artists and the Consumers alike, while maximizing benefit to themselves! Thus, with them actually CREATING NOTHING, and having no regard for the Public Good, they have shot themselves in their collective feet, and as a result they have NO LEG TO STAND ON. They have made themselves into useless antisocial pariahs, whining about how they are not getting "their fair share" (read: the lion's share) of what they consider to be their ENTITLEMENT. What they are entitled to is EXACTLY NOTHING.
-- Max
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Davenport Lyons
we need advise from yourself's?
ASAP
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Re: Davenport Lyons
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davenport lyons
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Re: davenport lyons
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Good info
http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=66
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davenport lyons
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Davenport Lyons
Now the letter from DL states I shared Scooter, Jumping all over the world using Bittorent (don't know if I've spelled that right). Obvously as a 59 year old I haven't heard of these. My son swears he did not download it and hasn't heard of bittorent although he does admit to limewire.
We can't afford £525 and I certainly am not signing the form to say I will delete it from my computer, I feel that is admiting I did it. Just to be clear I did not download anything.
If a solicitor costs £500 to act for you and you could still have to pay, what's the point?
I did ring KC to ask why I wasn't told if someone was using my connection illegally but got no sensible reply to that.
I really don't know which way to turn but am hanging on until the last minute to see if DL will be exposed as I feel it is a scam. They know I can't prove I or anyone else didn't do it.
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Re: Davenport Lyons
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Davenport Lyons
Thanks to your comment about the dates not adding up I have checked my own letter and it's the same. The letter was sent on 28 March 2008 together with a schedule showing I downloaded on 4 April 2008.
There is definately something very wrong and in everything I've read I've not noticed anyone else pick up on the dates.
I'm going to be busy tomorrow, calling anyone I can think of.
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I've tried KCom, can't even get to talk to anyone except customer call centre and they know nothing.
I don't want to end up in court so I'm going to contact whoever I can to try to get help.
Do let me know what the solicitors say, thanks
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scooter davenport letter
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Online advice for people
This has previously been mentioned, but there is a discussion forum about this at Slyck.
In particular, there are two summary threads "Davenport Lyons - what can we do as a group?" and also "Davenport Lyons - I've received a letter what do I do?". There is also a discussion thread there.
I encourage all those falsely accused to write to their MPs, MEPs and news outlets as detailed in the second link. Also, the third link is a collection of information about how you might want to handle yourself.
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Luke I totally agree and I would suggest in the arse. They are no different to any criminal scammer!
I feel companies and artists have a right to protect their work but this isn't the way.
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Just checked our credit card and its still pending and just dont know what to do for the best???
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Giving it away
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DL
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Saw Watchdog and wish now I'd taken up there request to go on film as they could check my computer anytime.
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peerguardian 2
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ASC Law Letter for alleged MP3 Download
I have also had an extortion attempt, I have taken free legal advice from a specialist lawyer (in intellectual property disputes), and on his advice (and approval of my letter / reply), have sent said reply, denying any wrongdoing, but i'm a bit incensed by it all.
Not at all worried, because I have free legal advice too if needed by a member of the family who is also a barrister, but I do feel that this company is operating on the fringes of what is legal, and we are all (letter recieprients), guilty as charged unless we pay up, and there is a statement in the letter that indicates a denial is simply not enough, they will still press the court case.
The MD of the company, Andrew Crossley, in a TV / Net video interview hastened to say that the threatening letter is not a demand , but a request for money, it all reeks of a phishing scam, that unfortunately has been made semi - legal by a court order against the ISP's that are forced to release IP address / account info, and from there, the cash demand letter wouldn't stand up in a defended court case.
Not getting anything out of my bank account (for something I did not do), £300.00 for an mP3 I don't even like sounds like extortion, and I have written to my MP, and the house of commons too (the PM).
Must get these "no win- no fee" tuppeny hafepenny solicitors struck off (SRA aware too).
The ID Process from Digiprotect was proven unsound in Germany, but the UK has to play catch-up in the high tech IP war, until then, there are a lot of spooked people feeding this scam with cash!
Sorry - a bit long winded, but I like to get this off of my chest. :) Baron210
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Law
Also is this not Entrapment ?
Would someone reply to this. I would really like to find out .
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