Consumers Union Wants Congress To Delay Digital TV Transition
from the oh-please,-just-get-it-over-with dept
Now, we all agree that the FCC has screwed up the conversion to digital TV for over-the-air TV watchers, especially with the "coupon" program running out of money. But, it's still pretty ridiculous for Consumers Union to ask Congress to delay the transition (found via Consumers Unions' newly owned Consumerist).The transition to digital TV has been delayed for years. It was amazing that we finally got a hard deadline of February 2009 given how many forces were fighting against it. Part of the problem was always some ridiculous sliding scale of when we'd be "ready." But, a hard deadline was set, and now it's important to just get it over with. The end result will be much better for consumers, because the old spectrum will finally be put to good use where it can provide an awful lot of value. Yes, the transition coupon program has been poorly run. Yes, it would be better if we figured out a better way (even now) to get converter boxes to people. Yes, there are still a number of people who haven't gone out and picked up a convertor box. Yes, there will be some confused people who turn on their TV and discover it won't work, but it's a very small number of people at this point, and given how much time they've had to deal with it, having their TVs not work should be the final kick in the pants to move forward. There's simply no good reason to delay the transition yet again. Update: Unfortunately, it looks like the incoming Obama administration supports a delay as well.
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Filed Under: confusion, conversion coupons, digital tv
Companies: consumers union
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For example, not ALL stations are going to all-digital. Did you know that? Do you know why? Most don't. They have to keep analog TV for lower power stations that provide signal in mountainous and rural areas as well as stations that act as second-language translators.
Do you know how long the U.S. has actually been trying to get HDTV? More than a decade. Think 25 years or more.
Do you know how many issues they still have with the current system they're trying to set in place? They still can't even provide 1/2 of what they promised 10 years ago. Most of the resolutions they claim will be available won't fit in the bandwidth they alloted(6Mhz, the same as we have now) so don't be surprised when we go through this in another few years where your digital tuner needs an adapter to work with them.
And it's not that I'm lazy, I just don't care for the government to do this. We already get shitty reception due to interference from other signals so amplification won't even fix our issues. Since digital TV is either there or it's not: for us it's NOT. And we live right in the middle of a city so we're not going to get lucky enough to find a rural repeater.
Am I supposed to be thrilled to be told that my children won't be able to watch PBS, or anything else for that matter, because the government thought they knew better for everyone?
They did this to AM radio back after WWI(IIRC) and we had a drastic drop in radio stations that we **never recovered from**, even all the stations we have today aren't a drop in the bucket compared to what we had. The same is happening with some TV stations right now. Think about that. Or do as most people do, and don't think about it cause it's easier to not think.
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This has NOTHING to do with HDTV. Digital TV and HDTV are two separate issues.
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Re: DTV
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Re: Digital Conversion
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Amen to that...
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All transitions have their bumps and bruises at first.
There's quite a bit of blame to go around, especially when the majority of consumers think that an HDTV is required for the DTV signal, which isn't the case at all, and why they're not "ready" to switch. For millions, an HDTV is still rather expensive.
Even with these "get ready to convert" commercials, they don't convey the message very well regarding the differences between TVs.
True story: Was at BestBuy a week before the holidays and overheard a conversation between a couple and an employee. The couple had 6 TVs in their home, but only had one coupon. Wanted to know if they could get more, but was told no.
The plot twist came when the employee asked how often the other TVs were used, trying to state just get what you need for now. The couple responded quite quickly they needed all because the wife doesn't want to miss O'Reilly.
Of course, at this point, the employee discovered the couple had cable and told them a converter box wasn't necessary. Damn if the couple didn't argue with him and told him "but the commercial said we needed them!"
In working in technology all my life, I can attest there is always going to be 25% of people that just don't get it and no matter how much you try to educate them, they're just too ignorant to adapt without force.
Flip the switch already. For us that do know, we've waited long enough for these ignorant 25%. Best to teach these remaining after the fact, than before, as this way, they can see the change for themselves.
Oh, and let's not forget about the 2% conspiracy theorists who believe DTV is a new way for the government to spy on all of us. Good luck converting these idiots!
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My understanding is that the Wilmington test produced hundreds of help-line calls. Some people couldn't even figure out how to us the converter boxes.
These people are probably elderly or perhaps low-income. Groups that may need a little extra help.
This thing could be chaos. The coupons have run out. TV will be switched off, and the people who need the most help will be left in the dark. I don't have a solution, and maybe that's the problem. Maybe it's impossible to require anything of the groups that will be cut off.
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You aren't taking into account that there are people who won't get a signal even if they switch. Digital means you get a picture, or you don't; no in-betweens.
I simply can't wait till the first few tornadoes start hitting this year and reception goes out due to storm interference. The death tolls are high enough when people can get reception so this should prove interesting.
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People need to grow up a bit.
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Setting one of these converter boxes is no different than hooking up a VCR, which I remember being able to do when I was 5 years old, and no, I'm not that smart.
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This bus slows down for no one!
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Why? because it costs just a few quid to buy a set top box. So quit whining.
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Re: Re: quid
Welcome to the rest of the world
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Not worth the 40 bucks
Screw it.
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Re: Not worth the 40 bucks
Supernatural, Life, and Battlestar Galactica.
But other than that, all that's on is damn commercials.
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Re: Not worth the 40 bucks
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HDTV
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Re: HDTV
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Can you eat a TV
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Re: Can you eat a TV
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Re: Can you eat a TV
Actually, no, it's not. It's costing the gov't $1 billion, but in exchange for that spectrum they got $19 billion, and the new spectrum will be put to much better use that will generate a lot more revenue.
This is an example of the gov't MAKING money, not going broke.
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Too damn bad
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just get it over with
I think we should revoke names temporarily when companies do the opposite...call them the "blunderer's union" until they straighten this out, etc.
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Missing people
I'm in the third largest city in Kentucky. All the local stations have digital and analog signals now, yet I can receive only half the number of digital signals as analog. Sure that's still a few stations, so I can get needed news and weather alerts after the transistion, but it's not all the major networks. The bad thing is I'm about 35 miles as the crow flys from the transmitters but these stations are the only service for people up to about 60-70 miles from their transmitters. They will lose more or all stations.
When analog goes silent there will be an uproar from rural America.
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Re: Missing people
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I like that option and it would offer the possibility of helping the community and economy. How? By creating the need to interact with others and communicate for entertainment instead of sitting on their butt watching mindless crap just waisting electricity so they do not have to find something to actually do.
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Re: Missing people
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Re: Missing people
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Re: Missing people
I have already raised a stink and wrote emails and letters to all our congress people for my state and more need to follow suit. I have also been giving them you know what on the FCC hotline LOL heck I dont have tv some my entertainment now is to annoy the ones that left me with out tv :)
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boat, missed
Lots of self righteous opinionated folks here
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Re: boat, missed
Your life on the sea means you are new to the internet. Most everywhere that allows posting is full of "self righteous opinionated folks". Even the ownership of techdirt has been accused of it.
And if it wasn't for my post, you'd remained ignorant. Now you have been educated.
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Yes, rural America will miss out
We also subscribe to satellite TV, but local channels are not provided because the nearest local affiliates are in a city that is too far down the Nielsen chart for anyone to care.
So we bought and hooked up digital converter boxes, only we cannot get any digital signals at all. This is likely due to terrain, distance, and the abrupt "drop-off" of digital signals (as opposed to the gradual fade of analog signals).
After the switch, we will lose all access to local channels, despite having done everything we were supposed to do to maintain them. We are not stupid, and we are not lazy. We just don't live in a metropolitan area.
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Re: Yes, rural America will miss out
Digital signals have a much "shorter" radius because they are directional, requiring a direct in-line station to pick up the signal.
At 60+ miles away, I'd estimate a 50'-65' pole should work well.
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Re: Yes, rural America will miss out
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Re: Paul
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No one ever talks about how this whole switchover might be better for the average consumer in the long run.
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It's been good to me so far
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But yeah - who's going to be impacted at this point? I doubt many 'techies' will....
It will be elderly people, handicapped people, poverty stricken.. And in the middle of Winter was just a dumb time to pick - when some of these people might be relying on TV news to let them know if the senior center or adult education classes have been canceled due to weather - or anything like that.
I don't have a HD TV, but they are all plugged into cable, so I guess I'm set, lol.
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What are you thinking??
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Keep channel 6 as analog.
I do think we should have one frequency open for analog,
that would be used for local news and emergency broadcast.
I would suggest, for the U.S., that channel would be 6. Most FM radio can receive the audio broadcast of 6 and the battery TV can still receive a station do to an emergency.
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Re: Keep channel 6 as analog.
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Why is this even happening?
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Re: Why is this even happening?
Its sad when people 50yrs ago viewed less ads in there entire lifetime than we see in a year.
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Not everyone is lazy or dumb...
I'm still all for the change though because it's been going on for longer than 10 years. I remember back in 1992 when I bought my first TV and the sales man was saying I needed a S-Video input on my TV because we'll be going to DTV any year now.
Also for the coupons.. we couldn't even find a converter box for the whole time we had ours. Our coupon ran out by the time the stores around us got them in.
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Don't need it.
I get what I need from the Internet and the one eyed monster gathers dust, or becomes another flat surface to set things on.
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Missing People
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Get On With It
The digital conversion of TV will NOT bring HDTV into your home. It will bring DTV ... Digital Television, not High-Definition Television. The difference is huge.
DTV will have 480p resolution ... that's nearly normal resolution (the difference is 480i vs 480p ... interlaced vs progressive ... half the lines cycling at a time vs all the lines cycling every time). It will have better colors and a crisper picture, but it will NOT be High-Definition (that requires 720p or 1080i/p ... which is 720 lines and 1,080 lines, respectively). In order to get HD, you will need an HD TV and cable or satellite service that offers HD channels. (I have Comcast, and hate watching non-HD channels now)
I know it's confusing, but it's different. You will hardly notice the difference on your TV, even if it is digital, between HD and non-HD until your TV is 32" or larger. You can use your old CRT TV with DTV with a converter if you use over-the-air TV (but your TV will make the signal look worse ... just like it used to) ... if you use cable or satellite, it won't matter because they take care of the conversion for you.
I guess what I'm saying is:
HDTV is DTV
DTV is not necessarily HDTV (and if you use an antennae to get your TV, it won't be HD)
But there are reasons to upgrade our system:
1. More in less ... TV stations will be able to fit more DTV signals in less bandwidth than analog TV. So this means more bandwidth is available for other purposes AND a TV station can multi-cast several channels on their signal. Much like HD-Radio. You may now get ABC-1, ABC-2, ABC-3, CBS-1, CBS-2, NBC-1, NBC-2, NBC-3 ... that's more channels for you!
2. Better picture ... digital signals have the ability for error correction. Your signal not the greatest, then your converter box may be able to figure our what should have been there, and fix it for you. Digital can also carry more information, so this means more color information. Unfortunately, this means that channel that you could barely make out because it looked like it was in a blizzard ... will not appear at all.
I find it funny, though, that someone mentioned people in rural areas that can't get good signals. This will suck for them, but that's why cable was invented. Cable Television was supposed to get TV to the people that don't get reception. It's funny, because everyone in a city can get cable, but many people in rural areas, too far from the cable lines, can't (unless you want to pay an arm and a leg to have lines run to your house). Of course, this is where satellite TV comes into play.
I hope this cleared some things up for some people ... because DON'T refer to the new TV signals as HD ... they aren't. It's DIGITAL, not HIGH-DEFINITION. It's only slightly better than what people have now with over-the-air broadcasts.
Just, please, for the sake of the children and not making them stupid ... DON'T CALL IT HDTV!
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Re: Get On With It
In order to get HD, you will need an HD TV and cable or satellite service that offers HD channels.
if you use an antennae to get your TV, it won't be HD
There are stations (I don't know the percentage) broadcasting HDTV (yes, real live 1080, though I don't know if it's i or p) over the air. You pick this up with a standard rabbit ears TV antenna, at least if you're close enough to the tower. It's not some poor man's HD either, I watch football in HD this way when it's available, and it looks great. Widescreen and everything.
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Re: Get On With It
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Horses
Are TV stations 60 miles away local?? Isn't satellite TV a fantastic development for rural dwellers? But that's not enough? You want to make NO sacrifices for the fantastic benefits of rural living.
Dude, I don't know how to farm, and I'm not independently wealthy. I need to work. I live in a city. I wait 15 minutes in line for a cup of coffee, I pay $20 for parking, I choke on fumes, I sit in traffic, I listen to my neighbor's kid play drums, and my other neigbor's dogs bark all day, and so it is. I choose to live here. I don't get the benefits of rural life.
Guess what, you don't get some of the benefits of urban life. I don't understand why we seem to have this pact that rural America is short-changed if they don't have the same access to broadband, TV, media as their urban counterparts.
How about this: I don't have a horse. Not allowed to have one based on zoning, and don't. If you figure out a way that I can have some horses in my back yard (at gov't expense), I'll work on a way to get you broadband and TV.
Geez, rural America, get used to making choices with trade-offs. That's one of the small costs of freedom. Don't whine for the government to even up the score.
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Re: Horses
The airwaves in this country belong to ALL OF THE CITIZENS.
people are such ignorant selfish assholes
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Re: Re: Horses
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Re: Horses
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At most, stage the shutdown...
However, perhaps we should do a staged shutdown over a period of a couple months to ease the transition. During the staged shutdown, TV stations would be allowed to continue using analog -- but only for limited purposes. Analog broadcasts would be limited to "simulcasts" of that appearing on the DTV and only news (including weather) and emergency information could be broadcast on analog. Commercials would be banned on analog and must be replaced by information about DTV transition. At all times that news or emergency information was not being broadcast on the analog channel, the station would be required to broadcast pre-approved instructions and information on "Why can't I see Oprah?" (and, no, it's not because "her last diet worked so well she's less than one pixel wide") and "How do I get my nanny TV back?".
If a shortage of DTV converters is anticipated, the staged shutdown period could, itself, be phased. For example, the Eastern Timezone would start its two month staged shutdown on March 1, and each month thereafter moving West, another timezone would start its staged shutdown. This would allow available converter boxes could be deployed into more concentrated markets over a longer period of time and give time for manufacturing to pick up some of the slack.
Remember, there is a thing called "radio" which can provide critical information - even in your car or via a battery operated device most people should have. So the loss of the analog signal is not quite as bad as some make it seem - yes, maybe on radio you can't actually see the trailer park in the next county take flight during the tornado, but you can be told enough about it to know to get somewhere safe.
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Re: At most, stage the shutdown...
The Short-term Analog Flash and Emergency Readiness Act (SAFER, S. 3663) is the relevant bill. (See http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-s3663/show for more info).
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Delay Conversion To Digital TV
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Obama joins Consumers Union
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delay of digital cutover.
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The losers strike me as the firms who use TV as a marketing method and the Government who uses the medium as a communication method to the citizens.
Their loss. Your gain.
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too freakin bad
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The transition coupon program has kept converter pricing artificially high. I've never seen on for less than $59 local retail. I believe they would be half this price, or less w/o the card program. Perhaps the price will come down now that the transition program is broke...and maybe now, folks too ignorant to have taken advantage of it may be enticed to buy a cheaper converter if/when the price drops.
My extensive personal experience in my RV at "fringe areas" leans unanimously in favor of DTV. At locations where analog stations (perhaps only 1) is barely watchable, I can pull down 10 or more DTV stations with perfect clarity. I just crank up my existing antenna and turn on the amp. Granted, this does not parallel a home setup. Often now I don't bother aligning my satellite dish because the DTV converter suits the purpose.
Did I hear correctly that once the conversion takes place that DTV signal power will be increased? Will that resolve the issues some folks have on the fringe?
I just don't think it's wise to cater to the ignorance some folks have regarding technology. It impedes progress.
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Airwaves Belong To Everyone
Sure, but TV *broadcasts* do not belong to the citizens. You have as much right as anyone to operate a CB radio, a WiFi router, an FRS radio, or to start a TV station in your rural town. But your partial ownership of the airwaves doesn't include the right to receive the broadcast signal of a private TV broadcaster 60+ miles away. If you do get signal, bully for you, if you don't, suck it up. Don't call ME selfish because I don't want to subsidize your TV (more than I already do). As I said, you subsidize my horses, then I'll work on your TV.
RE #65 "Ummm...the government just sold some of those airwaves so now Google owns some of the airwaves"
Leased, actually. The airwaves still belong to the people. And Google bid, but did not win any spectrum at that auction.
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The problem is NOT the converter boxes...
Now all you idiots tell me why I have to lose my TV so that a few wirele$$ carrier$ can make billion$.
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Digital TV
I am one of the people who has done nothing. I have 'Comcast' Analog Cable because even though cable customers "are not affected", 'Comcast' has decided to link their transition to digital cable to the airwave digital transition.
I currently pay $65 mo. for basic analog cable and have no cable box. Every month they discontinue more analog channels in the basic package to encourage people to transition. To upgrade to digital cable I will need to pay more basic fee and need to rent/buy a box for each of my tvs (5)at $5 month more.
I was at the inlaws and saw the great channels they get with their digital airwave box for free. I am considering buying a dtv converter and discontinuing cable.
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No more OTA rural TV
The trouble with digital is that poor signal strength gives you audio and video dropouts that make TV unwatchable, while poor analog is something you get used to and is quite watchable.
Sad, but large areas of the country will be losing their ability to get watchable TV over-the-air, and much more will find less usable channels.
KJ
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Rural Folks Will Be Left Out
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Digital service
How will she be able to watch her television? HELP
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Negative comment
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This "Idiot" Can Tell You Why...
Kind sir, here's why:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf
Have a look at the entire usable radio spectrum in the USA. Now, take a look at how much of that spectrum is blue. That is TV, wasting a huge swath for "Everybody Loves Raymond" reruns. I'm not a huge fan of TV, so I think it asinine that we waste our valuable airwaves on it.
Now, bear in mind that there are better and worse frequencies, give our radio technology. Lower frequencies travel further, but can carry less data. That is the trade-off. TV, by virtue of being early to the spectrum handout, locks up much of the best spectrum we have.
Now YOU tell ME why the 90% of citizens who get their TV over cable or satellite (and thus feed the content creation economy), and don't use ANY of our public resource to watch TV should continue to squander that resource so that the 10% like you can get a free ride?
The carriers pay the Treasury for the right to the spectrum so that they can earn billions. The money goes to the taxpayer. But YOU seem to think that we citizens should not take this money, and continue to use our spectrum with 1940s analog radio technology, so that YOU can get TV signals. Do you understand how selfish that is? This is not a handout to the cellular companies, they pay US to use the spectrum. It's a question of accepting progress, or sticking with the past - even if accepting progress means a few people won't be able to watch Ugly Betty.
Did you know about the spectrum chart? Who is an idiot talking out of their breadth?
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Re: This "Idiot" Can Tell You Why...
How DARE YOU assume the issue is episodes of "Ugly Betty" or "Everybody Loves Raymond"? What a smug arrogant jerk you must be! I pity your wife.
What if the relevant programs are the Jim Lehrer News Hour, or a Presidential address, or NOVA, or Masterpiece Theatre, or the Sunday morning news commentary programs such as Meet The Press or Stephanopolous' program, or even (horrors!) the Indianapolis 500 or The Masters golf tournament?
Why should usable broadcast TV, THAT ACTUALLY IS A RIGHT(!!!!!) in this country be shouldered aside? FCC licenses are grabted only insofar as licesees act "IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST".
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The airwaves belong to "We The People". It's about time we ALL start remembering it and acting that way. And when I say "We The People", that means the least well-served among us, not just the technically advantaged.
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dtv
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