DRM Screws Users Again: eBooks About To Disappear Due To DRM Provider Shut Down
from the don't-buy-anything-with-DRM dept
Around here, it's basically preaching to the choir, so most of you probably recognize this already, but buying anything with DRM on it is basically asking for trouble down the road. The latest example? An eBook seller named Fictionwise has realized that one of the companies that provides DRM for some of its books has announced that its shutting down at the end of the month. Because that DRM has to check in with an authentication server that's no longer going to be there, everyone who "bought" (really: incorrectly thought they bought) eBooks that used this DRM will discover that the books they paid for no longer work (Update: as noted in the comments, this DRM doesn't authenticate every time -- just any time you try to move the content to a new device. Also, Fictionwise is working to get replacements and has done so for many of the eBooks impacted already). It's as if a publisher could retroactively erase the text from within a physical book that you bought. Since Fictionwise is just passing on the eBooks from third party aggregators, it has no means of replacing the "disappeared" eBooks. Has anyone found any thing that DRM is actually good for yet?
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Filed Under: drm, ebooks
Companies: fictionwise
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Fortunately it is stories like this that may spell the final doom for DRM.
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Re:
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What did I buy again?
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Sounds like refund time to me!
If it was represented as a purchase I don't see any other answer, it doesn't matter if the company that sold them is in control or not, they took the money and they are liable.
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Not quite correct
What you won't be able to do is re-download them from Fictionwise after Overdrive shuts down or move them to another device. Which, now that I think of it, means that eventually you won't be able to ready them after all.
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Re: Not quite correct
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Press
Awesome, a printing press that uses disappearing ink. What will those greedy bastards sell us next ?
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Re: Press
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Good For Rentals
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Be aware
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Re: Be aware
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Re: Be aware
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Useful DRM
Unlike in the case in this article where the DRM server went away and users are screwed, the license agreement for Steam purchases states that if they do decide to shut down, users will be notified and given the ability to download stand-alone installers for all their games. If they decide to stop maintaining their DRM, they're giving their customers an alternative. I assume they recognize that if they did not provide this guarantee, then they would lose some business.
The Steam client also has useful features like the ability to communicate with your friends, to see what game your friends are playing in realtime, the ability to see what games your friends own and to purchase games as gifts.
There are a couple drawbacks. You lose the ability to sell your license to a game after you're done with it. For me, this is a non-issue. I like the idea that several years from now if I decide I want to go back and play an old game, I have the ability to do so with no hassle.
You also lose the ability to play some games if your computer has no internet connection available, Spore being one.
I consider myself to be a Steam fan, which means yeah, I'm a fan of a DRM app. I give my guarantee that I'm not a shill. I have no professional relationship with Valve.
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Re: Useful DRM
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Re: Re: Useful DRM
According to the GP post, standalone installers exist for the Steam games in the event of a permanent server shutdown. If you know that not to be the case, please enlighten us.
That doesn't adress the issue of temporary outages, but neither does that excuse your response.
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Re: Re: Useful DRM
"the license agreement for Steam purchases states that if they do decide to shut down, users will be notified and given the ability to download stand-alone installers for all their games. If they decide to stop maintaining their DRM, they're giving their customers an alternative."
Learn to read and get some manners.
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Re: Useful DRM
DRM = Digital Restrictions Management
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Re: Re: Useful DRM
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Re: Useful DRM
If it were not for that stand alone installer guarentee, I can guarentee you I wouldn't have agreed to buy it that way.
However, I feel the need to take down your representation of Valve a notch to the public you are presenting your argument to.
The idea of absolutely needing the internet to play is stupid. Allow me to demonstrate with knowledge of L4D, although it is slightly different. You can play L4D in offline mode, meaning that you do not need to be logged into Steam. However, if you do this, you do not get your stats tracked. I am okay with that. However, you can only play by yourself. That the same group of friends I bought it with had to move our little LAN party downstairs. However, we did not have the internet down there. So we boot up L4D anyways. One problem. We can no longer play network. I can maybe understand not being able to play online without being logged into Steam. However, we could not even play the game we purchased the day before over LAN. That is really .. really stupid. We were all rightfully upset. We bought the game. So why can't we even play LAN together? Oh yah, that's right. Even though we handed over our money for the game, we are STILL ALL CRIMINALS. Stupid thinking Valve, and it will way more than likely be the last game I purchase through Valve as well.
As for your one comment:
I like the idea that several years from now if I decide I want to go back and play an old game, I have the ability to do so with no hassle.
All the games I bought and have physical copies of, I simply make an ISO of the game. I can lose the physical copy, and I am still good. So I fail to see how that comment really has any bearing as to make Steam better than anything else.
For Steam, the ability to have a friends list I do not see as anything big. There are plenty of other programs that do that. For the voice chat, I am already fine with Vent, and most of my group still uses Vent, even when we have Steam up. The only time we don't, is when we are inside of L4D itself since in game it has the ability to do voice chat. Although, it can be pretty fun at times we start up Vent, disable the in game voice chat, and join one of the all chat servers (where both sides hear the other side's voice chat as well). Then they do not hear us, but we still hear them. It is funny because they start asking how we do so well without talking at all about coordination, except we are. Some would call it cheating, but I didn't break or hack anything to do it.
That makes about the only thing Steam adds above downloading anywhere, which I can install anywhere with my ISOs, and WAY faster than downloading 3+GB, is the ability to just click on your friend, and say "join game" and it auto joins you to their game. You do not even have to find which server they are on. So, overall, I think Steam adds very very little that you can't easily do with everything else that is already out there, and that people (being gamers at this point) already have installed anyways.
So, I hate Steam's DRM. Mike, you asked Has anyone found any thing that DRM is actually good for yet?
My answer is yes, I have, it is really good at screwing people who gave the companies their money, giving us incentives to no longer purchase games from them. As I will no longer buy from Valve. One game was enough.
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Re: Re: Useful DRM
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Re: Useful DRM
DRM isn't useful - it restricts your ability to use what you paid for. That Steam has some useful features is not a reflection on the DRM used.
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DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
DRM = Digital RENTAL media
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PERIOD!
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Re:
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Did you hear me SONY(SECUROM) , Fucking Tards!
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some how i think the IAAs are loving DRM more and more
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Re:
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Re: Re:
What's that? ;)
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The only "good" DRM
Hell the only "DRM" problems with steam games have been the third party DRM that the developers foisted to run on top of Steam's!
The only reason I buy into Steam still is because Valve has, since day 1, said they would push out a patch that takes away the need for the DRM check in. Then you only have to worry about losing your burned DV/C discs and serials.
Though thinking about it I think the quote was they would "feel morally obligated" or some such. Bah I'll have to recheck it now.
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I thought/think that the DRM aspect of STEAM is the online/community functionality.
Or I am a total idiot and I have no idea what im talking about, eh
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Re:
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Non-obtrusive DRM
In the case of video games, I'm not totally against fairly unobtrusive DRM (not like the Spore DRM or the Steam DRM, that is, which are both pretty intrusive). There usually aren't complimentary goods (like concert tickets) that you can buy with video games, and the developers deserve to be paid. If DRM can solve this problem and I'm aware of the limitations as I'm buying the product, so be it.
I also agree with the fact that DRM isn't bad for rentals, as Kyle pointed out. DRM for permanent music/books/videos is different, though - those media types require both portability and access on a variety of devices, and nobody has adequately solved those issues while still implementing effective DRM. That, and the content is more often than not overpriced.
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Shopping Cart
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Pissing off your paying customers and trashing PC(s)
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Good idea
Why didn't I think of that?
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Re: Good idea
Print books with disappearing ink. If you own it more than a year, it will have faded so much you can't read it and you will need to buy another.
Then people would just begin typing the book up on a word processor as they read it, increasing their frustration with your company and decreasing your expected sales further than if you had just used permanent ink in the first place. Hell, I know I would re-type a print book if I knew it would deteriorate within a year. Plus I would then have a handy format for reading said book anywhere I wanted with my laptop.
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Here's a smart idea...
Step 2) Turn printer on and make sure you have lots of ink and paper.
Step 3) Ctrl + P. Have a stapler ready.
HUZZAH!
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Re: Here's a smart idea...
On the other hand none of my 53 fictionwise books are overdrive protected. I still can't print them they are secure eReader with a different DRM scheme.
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I’ve seen people reporting that only US customers will be offered the DRM-free music yesterday .And the upgrade is a all-or-nothing prospect, which means you can’t choose which tracks to upgrade.
Also,I hope Apple gives more options on upgrading my original purchases. I have hundreds of music in my itunes library,and I'm counting the money that will cost if I update all of them!
So, I still use Wondershare media converter to help me,it is much economical.
I'll just wait for Apple to carry out more actions。
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I’ve seen people reporting that only US customers will be offered the DRM-free music yesterday .And the upgrade is a all-or-nothing prospect, which means you can’t choose which tracks to upgrade.
Also,I hope Apple gives more options on upgrading my original purchases. I have hundreds of music in my itunes library,and I'm counting the money that will cost if I update all of them!
So, I still use Wondershare media converter to help me,it is much economical:
http://www.flash-on-tv.com/media-converter.html#141
I'll just wait for Apple to carry out more actions。
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eReader Format Does Not Require Re-download for device change
I am Steve Pendergrast, one of the owners of Fictionwise.
While I appreciate the clarifications you added to this posting, it is still not entirely accurate. In particular the title of this article is highly misleading given that the files do in fact continue to work and we are actively providing replacements.
The replacement files we are providing are in eReader format, which is a format we acquired in early 2008. The eReader format never has to be re-downloaded by the customer at all. The same file you download on day 1 will operate on your future devices.
Therefore, with this format it doesn't matter even if the retailer or DRM provider "goes dark", you can still transfer your file to a new device and continue reading it. No server need be involved after initial purchase. We have customers who have reported that the very same file they downloaded ten years ago in 1998 in ereader format successfully transfers and unlocks on the new iPhone version of ereader in 2008. We care very much about our customer's investment in content. That's why we're expending massive amounts of time and effort to provide replacement files for those customers affected by this issue.
For these reasons, we are strongly recommending eReader format to our customers over other formats. Also, because we own the format, we are obviously less vulnerable to this kind of DRM supplier problem and we can ensure that for the customer's convenience the file can be re-downloaded in the future indefinitely (for example if the customer did not back up their files and lost them.)
This is actually something that is superior to physical books: If you buy a paperback book and then you misplace it or spill coffee all over it, I seriously doubt the store that sold it to you will replace it for free.
Most of you posting to this thread seem to be unware that Fictionwise has been a champion of unencrypted content since we were founded. We are the only major ebook seller that features unencrypted books on half of our front page and half of every newsletter. For that reason, many independent publishers who do not require encryption tell us that we are the bulk of the total sales. We wish we could sell every book without DRM. The reality is the larger publishers require it and our customers want access to those publisher's ebooks.
I can tell you that I have had discussions, including sometimes heated arguments, with executives at major publishers for the last eight years trying to convince them to at least experiment with unencrypted content. I have given presentations to industry groups about the evils of DRM, I was a keynote address to an indy publisher conference and the bulk of my talk was about how the indy publishers were smart to avoid DRM, and I've sung the virtues of unencrypted ebook content for the better part of a decade to anyone who would listen.
So while those of you in this forum rightly criticize DRM for its shortcomings and inconveniences, I do think it is a little unfair for you to be highly critical of Fictionwise given our history of being on the front line battlefield of the DRM issue.
-Steve P.
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Re: eReader Format Does Not Require Re-download for device change
It is typical of a consumer, free-for-all forum such as this that people jump in and attack the easy target, in this case Freewise. I have nothing to do with Freewise nor have even used their services but please people, get your facts straight before slating the middleman/distributor who is providing what is clearly a valued service or they would not still be in business...Most of us do not live in a state controlled economy so are perfectly free to chose our providers.
Thanks for the clarification Steve and for your work in this area. Good luck with your business.
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DRM Good for..
Pissing off the users who have it forced upon them and generating lots of stories like this one.
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DRM is a check not a
DRM is just a check to see that you have the right to use something that someone owns. You don't see people refusing to sign a credit card receipt (unless they stole the credit card) so I don't see what's the big difference.
Of course if you want to give something away then that's fine. I strongly support people who want to give away content for free just like I strongly support people who want to give me money for free.
However I respect that people have the right to protect what they own, less people may want to pay but that's surely their right.
In regards to companies going out of business it's the same as in physical life. I bought some shoes with a 5yr guarantee and the store's now closed. Should stores be giving shoes away for free now?
BTW:- anyone who wants to give me their bank account number and pin please feel free.
blog.kotsialos.com
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Re: DRM is a check not a
Most people don't have a problem with entering a serial number and/or a one-time check over the internet. But that's not all DRM is, so your comparison to an ATM is inadequate.
The problem is that DRM makes the illegal pirated version of a game superior to the legitimately purchased retail version.
DRM is just a check to see that you have the right to use something that someone owns.
It's quite a bit more than "just" a check. It's also installation limits, unauthorized software installs, unauthorized internet connections, and other unnecessary restrictions.
In regards to companies going out of business it's the same as in physical life. I bought some shoes with a 5yr guarantee and the store's now closed. Should stores be giving shoes away for free now?
No, but you can still do whatever you want with the shoes you bought. You can't do anything with the book or mp3 that can no longer authenticate. So the situations are hardly similar.
Your opinion seems to affirm the common refrain that DRM stands for Digital Rental Media. In which case it should be made clear to consumers that they're only renting the software they believe they're purchasing.
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Re: Re: DRM is a check not a
Re ATM - I think you will find everytime you use your ATM card it always verifies your ID otherwise the machine will turn off and give you no money. And for the sake of it lets expand, when the bank charges you a fee if you don't like it, its still not ok to rob the bank...
Re DRM - never found anything has been restricted that wasn't in the initial agreement, have you got an example.
Re Shoes - What can you do with a shoe that does not work? please resist the obvious :-)
http://blog.kotsialos.com
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Re: Re: Re: DRM is a check not a
As I said, most people don't have a problem with the simple, basic checks. But that isn't all DRM does. But sticking with your ATM comparison: if the ATM gets shut off, do you lose all your money? Of course not.
never found anything has been restricted that wasn't in the initial agreement, have you got an example.
Yes, yes - anyone who's ever had a problem with DRM should have hired a lawyer to decipher the terms and conditions that no one bothers to read before they bought anything. I find the "blame the consumer" argument wholly unconvincing, and incredibly short-sighted from a business point of view.
Re Shoes - What can you do with a shoe that does not work? please resist the obvious :-)
A DRM'd media file that can't authenticate with a server isn't broken - it's behaving exactly as it's supposed to. In essence, the content provider chose to "break" your ability to use your purchased content.
That's why every time one of these companies tries to shut down or switch DRM servers, the customer backlash is a PR nightmare for them. They wind up having to support a DRM system they don't want to use because of their own short-sightedness. So, it's bad for the business, and it's bad for the consumers. That's why people bitch about it.
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Now even though the sites have started releasing DRM free version, I am turned off getting ebooks. I still do once in a while, but rarely now.
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Don't believe everything you read
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Re: Don't believe everything you read
Just as in the real world, if you buy a book and you lose it, the publisher or retailer is not obligated to give you a replacement copy.
Except that the users didn't lose the book. Attacking TechDirt for accuracy seems particularly silly when you choose to use inaccurate comparisons.
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DRM on eBooks
the team at Contentrealtime.com
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