Facebook Fans The Flames Of Its TOS Change Overreaction
from the guilty-conscience? dept
Some Facebook users are in an uproar after the site changed its terms of service to say that it retains a license to users' content after they delete their account. As the company's founder, Mark Zuckerberg, explains, this change simply clarifies the point that actions on Facebook can create two copies of content. He says that when users add a friend or send a message, for instance, it generates two copies of the action: one for the user on each side. So say a user sends a message to a friend, then later deletes their account; the new TOS language clarifies that Facebook doesn't have to delete that message from their friend's inbox. As is often the case, the backlash over this change is largely an overreaction.Even so, it's hard to think that nobody at Facebook anticipated it and took some proactive steps to address the changes and attempt to allay concerns and preclude the overreaction. Instead, Zuckerberg responds only after the fuss has been kicked up, and his explanation comes off as damage control, regardless of the motivations behind it or the TOS change. This situation seems akin to the scandal that emerged after the heads of US automakers took private jets to Washington when they went to ask for government bailout money. Whether or not the indignation over the private flights was warranted was mostly irrelevant, but the fact that nobody at the automakers anticipated it and raised a red flag smacks of stupidity. It's hard to imagine that nobody at Facebook could have seen this storm of complaints coming, generated by what many there saw as a minor TOS change. Is Facebook's TOS change really that bad? No, it's not particularly egregious -- but by not staying ahead of the backlash, Facebook comes off looking the worse for it. The point isn't that Facebook or any other company shouldn't change their TOS to better reflect their businesses and technology, but that in this day and age, any "minor" change is going to attract lots of scrutiny, and, in all likelihood, will be misunderstood and misinterpreted. This makes the handling of the change much more important than the change itself.
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Filed Under: communication, mark zuckerberg, overreaction, poor planning, terms of service
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TOS concerning pictures
Personally speaking, the thing that caught my attention (mentioned within the synopsis of the new TOS that I've read) is the supposed relinquishing of rights to photographs associated with defunct Facebook accounts. To find that one of my pictures has been used in a marketing campaign, or simply bundled and sold to a third party with out my consent would be less then unsettling.
But then again, as a professional photographer, I don't put any pictures that I perceive to have value, up on Facebook.
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Facebook TOS
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Facebook TOS
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Facebook TOS
And yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the fact that anything put on the web will stay there forever. But that is different from what Facebook users expect (naively, perhaps) and a not the same as making commercial use of it. That's not sharing, it's theft.
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Huh? I should hope this is how it works
Seems reasonable to me.
Isn't that how things work? I mean if Yahoo reached into my mailbox and took away all of the e-mails from someone who canceled their account, I'd be pretty damn pissed. Likewise with images. If I receive an image from God him/herself in my inbox, I can't imagine the situation where it would seem OK to take that image away from me.
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Corporate apologist much?
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Facebook isn't your friend
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Who's decision was this anyway?
But be skeptical when Facebook has to put out a poll asking for input to their own TOS. Why are they working so hard to keep the new TOS? Why do they even have to ask for feedback? Just revert back to the old TOS.
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Re: Facebook isn't your friend
I can see the potential for misuse, but I can also see how this is just explaining what is a fact of life.
My university has a copy of every message anyone has ever sent me. How and why? Because I keep all those messages and my e-mail inbox and archives are on their servers. That's it, and that's all. There's no way around that unless you force everyone to house all of their stuff on their personal computing device, and then we might as well go back to wearing flannel and listening to grunge rock.
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Oh get over yourselves!
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Re: Facebook TOS
That would be an issue if that were what they were doing. They were not. They were just explaining how their system actually works. It was never about using your content.
So, yes. You are overreacting.
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Re: Corporate apologist much?
Um. No. Try reading again. If this were a *real* problem with the quality of its terms of service, then that would be an issue. But it's not. It's a non-issue. Thus, the more important thing in *THIS SITUATION* is how they screwed up the PR handling of the change.
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This is not a little tweak.....
Under the license section of the TOS, Facebook said that by agreeing to the terms, users "grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable, worldwide license to use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain and distribute any user content you post."
That means that your unsavory escapades in writing or photos potentially could be used to sell the service and, moreover, Facebook doesn't need to tell you or get your permission.
According to the license, Facebook can "use your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial or advertising. Facebook will be entitled to the unrestricted use of any such submission for any purpose, commercial or otherwise, without acknowledgment or compensation to you."
Adding insult to injury, the site did not notify users of TOS changes and, in fact, said it doesn't have to.
"We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to change or delete portions of these terms at any time without further notice. Your continued use of the Facebook service after any such changes constitutes your acceptance of the new terms."
Basically facebook is saying "trust us, everything is going to be okay". But would you personally give ANY company that free reign over your content? And also not ever have the obligation to tell you ANYTHING about future changes? Seriously fb should be called out on this and there shouldn't be blog posts that remotely defend what they are doing (stares right at techdirt).
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Reverting back to the old TOS
As no one has mentioned this yet, Facebook has reverted back to their old TOS until their new TOS can be corrected, and I would guess properly addressed.
So I would say kudos to Facebook for at least realizing their mistake (whether it be in the TOS, or simply incorrect PR over the new TOS), and taking some action. It could have been just as easy to continue on, brush everything off, and wait for this to blow over.
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WSJ: Facebook Backs Away From Policy Change
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123494484088908625.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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Re: Re: Facebook TOS
You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to (a) use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain, publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit, frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and distribute (through multiple tiers), any User Content you (i) Post on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof subject only to your privacy settings or (ii) enable a user to Post, including by offering a Share Link on your website and (b) to use your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial or advertising, each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof.
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BTW
Over the past few days, we have received a lot of feedback about the new terms we posted two weeks ago. Because of this response, we have decided to return to our previous Terms of Use while we resolve the issues that people have raised. For more information, visit the Facebook Blog.
If you want to share your thoughts on what should be in the new terms, check out our group Facebook Bill of Rights and Responsibilities.
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Re: Re: Facebook isn't your friend
Hype!
There was no "grunge rock"; that term was made up for people like you. And flannel is just what they happen to wear a lot of in Seattle.
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Re: Oh get over yourselves!
The music industry wants people to be exposed to their work.
The private individual only wants a select few to be exposed to their "work".
In other words, a musician wants people to hear their music on the radio but I'm betting you'd be upset if we put your private telephone conversations up for the public to listen to, AND we could potentially make money from it without you having any say in the matter.
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Re: Re: Facebook TOS
I'm not completely clear on the issue but if thats the case, I can understand the "overreaction"
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Re: This is not a little tweak.....
I guess it's another reason why people really need to read the fine print before they tic off the "I Agree" box.
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Compare
It's a real issue. That's one reason (among others) that pro photographers stay far away from Facebook. And it helps explain why the photos on Facebook are so generally crap.
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What's that washing sound?
If that was all they meant they could have easily written just that. They didn't, and it wasn't.
Nice whitewash attempt, though.
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Mike, I'm not suprised by your reaction
Standing from your position in re that copyrights shouldn't exist, or maybe they shouldn't exist for some but should for others.
Mike are you being honest with your audience? It seems to me you are using the copyright regime to benefit from CrowdSourcing.
Lloyd
Help Improve the Techdirt Insight Community by Mike Schinkel
Monday, February 26th, 2007 @ 3:39AM
icon
Mike Schinkel
Your legal agreement is going to keep me from contributing much. These are the specific problem areas, with a rating of 1 to 10 where 10 is a huge problem:
1. >> we will have the right to republish your written work .... and alter your submissions as we may determine necessary
Concern Level 5 - This is really after #4 is resolved.
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3. >> You agree that the submissions shall be deemed "works for hire" under copyright law, and you agree to assign, and upon their creation, automatically assign, to us the ownership of such works, including copyright interests and any other intellectual property in such works, without the necessity of any further consideration.
Concern level 10 - Joint copyright is acceptable, but not full rights.
4. >> We may provide your written submissions to third parties without any indication of your authorship.
Concern level 8 - One of the reasons to join is to build my stature. That can't happen if I'm anonymous
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Really Mike...I mean REALLY
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Mike I thought you Repudiated "COPYRIGHTS"
http://techdirt.com/article.php?sid=20080425/124144950#c644
Re: This Concept is Market Tested=Market Failure
by Mike - Jun 12th, 2008 @ 3:47am
So my only conclusion drawn from the facts is you believe in using the current intellectual property rights, laws and statutes, to engage in your business model. And that exclusive rights are part and parcel of that model
Not at all. We are quite clear in our agreements: we are selling a *service*, not a product, and we retain no rights to the end result. Our customers are free to do what they want with the output, even if it's to redistribute or resell it.
We do not rely on IP for our business model at all. In fact, we encourage our customers to do what they want with our works, knowing it only helps us more in the end.
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