Patents Being Abused To Put Your Life In Danger
from the dangerous-consequences dept
For years we've been writing about various abuses of the patent system, and how they damage innovation. There are times when we hear about abuses of the patent system that actually put lives in danger -- often around the pharmaceutical industry. At least in that case, you can sometimes understand the basic reasoning (even if it's actually incorrect). However, we recently came across an example of the patent system being abused in such an egregious manner that it's putting many lives at stake...Bob Austin, who for many years has worked in major metropolitan fire and EMS departments, had the idea of creating an open source medical dispatch system. Such a system would have numerous benefits. Beyond being a free system, it also would allow best practices to easily bubble up in a way that actively would help save lives. If another EMS department could improve on the system, they easily could do so and contribute it back to the community.
One of the parts of the system was a project called Cards 911, which was a useful document for use by emergency dispatchers. Basically, it gave them a simple script to follow when an emergency call came in, asking where they were, the nature of the emergency, how many people injured, etc. The answers to certain questions would lead the dispatcher to different parts of the document using hyperlinks. The entire document (and, yes, it was just a document) was created in OpenOffice Writer and was offered either as a document file or a PDF file. In other words, this was basically a script with hyperlinks in it, that helped an emergency dispatcher get the necessary information, and help the caller as quickly as possible -- and it was free and open.
Who could possibly complain about that?
Apparently the lawyers for a company called Priority Dispatch Corporation, who sent a legal nastygram listing out ten patents that the company held, which the lawyers implied the Cards 911 project violated. Remember, this is a script written as a document. The lawyers were careful never to actually say which of the ten patents the cards violated, but simply listed them all out and said "Our investigation has revealed that the... Guide Cards may infringe on one or more of Priority Dispatch's patents and/or copyrights." Not only that, but the lawyers then demanded that all physical and electronic copies of the documents be destroyed.
Given the position they were in, as open source developers doing this for the good of the public, rather than as any sort of business endeavor, the folks involved in the project complied with the demands of the lawyer. They destroyed everything, both electronic and physical and agreed not to work on any emergency dispatch systems in the future. The project is no longer available, and our emergency dispatch systems are that much worse off because of it.
Furthermore, in investigating this further, it appears that it would be impossible to craft any sort of competing product that lives up to NHTSA and ASTM official standards without violating Priority Dispatch's patents, based on the what the company seems to believe they cover. If you would like to see all ten patents for yourself, they're listed here: The whole situation is rather sickening, and I'm really hoping that folks here might be able to help see if we can get this project back on track. Priority Dispatch's decision to scare these open source developers into submission for merely offering up a free project to help save lives is really a rather disgusting use of the patent system, and obviously goes against the very purpose of that system: "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts." Instead, such things are being actively stymied in a way that puts all of us at risk.
The folks working on this project have no money (and no intention of making any money from the project), but they could use some help. In my discussions with them, they simply wanted me to know about their story, and weren't asking for help per se, but it would be great if we could, as a community, come up with ways to get this project moving again, so that we can all be safer. If anyone has thoughts or ideas on how to help Bob, please let us know in the comments, and let's see what can be done. At the very least, please help spread this story and let others know about it.
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Filed Under: emergency dispatch, open source, patents, scripts
Companies: priority dispatch corporation
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Best of luck to you Bob, I know I certainly would like some better stuff that wouldn't drain our departments budget and might work better then what we have now.
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Re: Open Source CAD
Bob's Cards file was originally included in our free, Open Source CAD system, Tickets by name. See list at
http://groups.google.com/group/open-source-cad
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Re: Free Open Source CAD
It's been available for several years now, and I'm gonna shoot my (NON-EXISTENT) marketing VP as soon as I finish this.
AS
You wrote "... With all of the money spent on parts for the dispatch system, it would be nice to see some open source programs being used for dispatchers. I do volunteer work in emergency services here and we routinely use programs that cost several thousand, but ..."
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Go Forward
1) Incoroprate so that they cannot be personally liable
2) Create a PR website detailing what they are doing so that the general public know what's going on.
3) Get sued, inform the press, demand a jury trial
4) Find Lawyers willing to work for free (I bet they can find some)
5) Emotional appeal in the trial
#1 is pretty key and that's the part I'm not completely sure about, but there has to be something they can do to remove personal liability.
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Re: Go Forward
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Instead of giving up...
Really, this sort of attack on open source is not that unusual and it rarely succeeds. It's a shame that these authors choose not to turn to the OSS community for help.
Chris.
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Re: Instead of giving up...
It's a national shame that they would have to in the first place.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, in America once you are forced into court, you've likely already lost. If you don't have an army of lawyers the risk is too great. Yeah, you can put everything you are ever likely to own on the line, but I wouldn't. And you probably wouldn't either.
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Senators notified
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Re: Senators notified
Priority Dispatch needs to be charged with reckless endangerment, or at least be subjected to a dedicated bad PR campaign. Enough negative publicity to make their clients investigate alternatives before automatically signing the renewal.
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Re: And the USPTO
Prior art (we did it in 1984)
Obvious use of existing technology (well du'uh)
Trying to patent an idea
Overly general (imagine the harm a class patent on scripts could do)
Or perhaps the company holding these patents should be sued by the folks holding patent #4,873,662 (hyperlink - 1980)
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http://www.olis.oecd.org/olis/2009doc.nsf/LinkTo/NT00000B6A/$FILE/JT03259332.PDF
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Canada
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Test the product
To test simply set fire to the lawyers, throw them each a phone and see how long it takes for them to go through the script.....
Simple solutions for a greedy world ;0)
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Re: Test the product
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Try UK/Europe
Once it is firmly established in the NHS it can then migrate out to other regions. The US is then left without a system with by then demonstrated benefits and good press with Priority Dispatch in the dock for being intransigent.
Assumption is that the company doesn't have worldwide/UK patents (software still can't be patented in the UK).
Other track would be to see if you can't get someone like Mark Cuban to tackle Priority Dispatch.
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Here's hoping....
Similar to the way I always hope the driver who DOESN'T pull over for emergency vehicles, owns the home the firetruck is going to!
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And here he rises again...
What a guy
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Re: And here he rises again...
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Re: Re: And here he rises again...
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Re: And here he rises again...
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Re: Re: And here he rises again...
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Re: And here he rises again...
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Re: And here he rises again...
But if I may take a less biased stance, this article is ripe with FUD. Sure, its not claiming that our children are in danger, which is a step up from the standard fear mongering, but there is no proof that this program has improved response times for EMTs, or has saved any lives that otherwise would have been lost without this program.
Sure, there is a logical sense to the idea that a better dispatch program will yield better response times. But will an average of 1/5th of a second faster really be the difference between saving anyone's life? Or does the program provide a more meaningful increase? We really don't know. And without that vital piece of information, we don't know how much of a threat to our lives this actually is.
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Re: Re: And here he rises again...
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Re: Re: Re: And here he rises again...
@JAMinH
While I agree that the language is a bit sensational here I think the underlying premise is sound in the long term.
The idea here (I think, and I've said the same thing before) is that the patents claimed by Priority Dispatch are much too broad. They are so general that they can be interpreted to already cover any improvements one might make to them. As a result, there is less competition and therefore less incentive to improve the existing product. The fact that this was an open source effort probably only served to keep it from going to court. After all, why sue someone if they have no money?
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It similarly bothers me that when I am working on some of the (quite low-level) web programming that I do, I could apparently run afoul of someone's patent simply by employing my innate and learned faculties of logic and reason to solve a problem - especially when there is, arguably, a finite number of ways to solve many of those problems. To me it seems no different from patenting a mathematical formula, which as far as I know doesn't happen...
Why does the patent office not have a branch dedicated to ensuring patents are being used in good faith and in ways that align with the original intention of the system?
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Re:
the only use of that shitty paper called "US patent" is to exclude others from practicing patented invention (by suing them in federal court)
That was the original intent of the patent
Perhaps it's hard to believe for morons like you, but eventually this does promote the "progress of science and useful arts"
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Re: Re:
If you could answer that question, in regards to this situation, then less people would declare you a trol.
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Re: Re: Re:
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Re:
Because it's not in the federal budget. If you want something like that, someone has to pay for it. The PTO is not going to play big brother to patentees unless someone pays them to do so.
Further, that sort of thing is why we have an adversarial judicial system. It allows people who are hurt by the system the possibility of fighting back, and it allows a judge and jury to sort out who is right and who is wrong. It's also why Congress legislated reexaminations at the PTO.
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Mind Boggling
"A method and system for providing emergency medical counseling to childbirth patients remotely is described ... This invention specifically guides the dispatcher through the steps of the procedure for giving remote emergency medical counsel to childbirth patients"
Invention? How does a script qualify as an invention?
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How about
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reckless
What do you call one lawyer drowning in the ocean? A problem.
What do you call a thousand lawyers drowning in the ocean? A problem.
What do you call all the lawyers drowning in the ocean? Problem solved.
Or what do you call a thousand lawyers tied to anchors on the sea floor? A good start.
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the funny thing
Some time ago Mikey wrote a "movie review" WITHOUT even seeing the movie
Why waste your time reading trash, folks ?
Better download some quality porn off the internet
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Re: the funny thing
On this, he is doing a god job pointing out that these lawyers are just bullying these people who were doing something for free to help dispatchers of emergency services. The patent system was never created for use like this. It was ment to stop people from profiting off the work of others, which is clearly not the case here.
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Lawyers
Maybe it's time for some anarchy; as a group, ignore the sleazy lawyers and see what actually happens (yeah, I know, chaos). Maybe the group who developed the script should have placed it out in the public so there were too many copies in use and then let the sleazy lawyers try to stop a country's worth of "violators".
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Lowlifes (lawyers)
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Lowlifes (lawyers)
A poor start...
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Let me get of this crazy world
What are they going to patent next, saying “Hello, please state the nature of your emergency.”, so unless you purchase their system a 911 operator has to use another way answer the phone. One that cannot even come close to such wording. How about “This is 911 we couldn’t afford a proprietary system sorry you are out of luck, good bye”.
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Re: Let me get of this crazy world
If that's the case, then they are probably invalid under a number of theories and should never have been issued.
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Well, you see...
In any case, the only problem is that it does cost money to fight alleged infringement, though they could show a few episodes of Emergency! (and other relevant television shows that predate these patents) and point out the ramifications in a summary judgement suit and have a good chance of prevailing over many, possibly most, and maybe even all of the patents.
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Re: Well, you see...
> cost money to fight alleged infringement,
> though they could show a few episodes of Emergency!
Not unless the paid their public performance royalty to the MPAA. Otherwise they might win their patent case, only to be sued for copyright infringement...
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Simple change: Rather than "Our lives could be in danger" change this to "We need to fix this to save the children"
Politicians fall over backwards to put their name on a bill, and presto, problem solved...
:)
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Just wow...
I mean, honestly, this company takes those FREE cards down because they infringe on patents, It's not like they're making any money off it.
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Then take it to the media.
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Re: DA
> indicating suspension of use of claimed
> IP while the claim is researched. Make it
> clear in the letter that Priority Dispatch
> Corporation opens itself up to this liability,
> along with future liability by claiming
> use of the intellectual property
That's all well and good except for the fact that a District Attorney has no authority to just assign liability for things. Liabillity is assigned by statute, passed by the legislature. A DA only enforces the statutes. He/she can't make them up.
> freely engage them in any legal correspondence
> and future civil lawsuits
District Attorneys only try criminal cases, not civil suits.
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Copy of the document
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Re: Copy of the document
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Re: Copy of the document
http://mirror.optus.net/sourceforge/c/ca/cards911/
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Patent a mathematical formula... only if you call it an algorithm..
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Re: Patent a mathematical formula... only if you call it an algorithm..
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Re: Re: Patent a mathematical formula... only if you call it an algorithm..
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It's all about the money
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Re: It's all about the money
Yep. I may have produced flying monkey out of my posterior, too. No proof of either. Companies like this win because people cave. Given the vague nature of the patents in question, you could make the argument that any experienced call center operator who answers a call in the same manner prescribed by the patents runs the risk of violating them.
Total crap. A novel approach to a manufacturing problem, sure. But patent a life-health-safety issue?
"We're sorry we can't send an ambulance. To ask your address would violate someone else's patent."
Retarded.
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Do something about it ...
project.
http://w2.eff.org/patent/
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Patents can kill.
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I thought you were dead !
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This is not a sentence.
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i emailed this small blurb to thier website contact email
life-threatening situations. Bravo. I'm sure that now your "for-profit model" will
not be compromised by any outfits who might want to utilize a free alternative
while spending money on actual equipment or man-power or other tangible
means of emergency response.
Your decision undoubtedly means that while you might get more subcribers...
that resources will be spent on your product that might NEED TO BE SPENT
on other and vital means for the response process.
You, sirs and madams, have earned my contempt and scorn.
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Re: i emailed this small blurb to thier website contact email
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lies
please see http://truereform.piausa.org/ for a different/opposing view on patent reform
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Re: lies
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When are those patents going to expire?
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@ AC in 48
One had a primary examiner with a probably Indian name; two others had a Hispanic name.
Hate to tell you, that's no indication of anything. Oh, the the others that had one listed all had very Anglo names.
Current governor of Louisiana? Piyush Jindal. Current US President? Barack Obama, in case you didn't notice. Indian sounding? No, but by your standard I'm sure it sounds "foreign."
A quick Google search has a lot of hits on the Hispanic name, and I'm sure there's plenty of second or third generation Americans among the results.
Just as likely? They're too YOUNG to remember that show. It went off the air in 1977.
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Focus
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Re: Patents Being Abused To Put Your Life In Danger
Medical knowledge, and so are to be considered diagnostic decisional trees, are not something that you can patent... they are public knowledge to begin with! One could, at most, patent the specific instrument (or maybe in the US the idea behind the instrument, if original) but not the "intellectual flowchart"! I believe Priority Dispatch Corporation has just tried to scare those fellows (and succeeded) ...it is not rare that an enterprise "abuses" its rich purse issueing legal actions against people supposedly unable (or unwilling) to pay for the fight.
This whole thing is a pity however ...I am looking forward to see the original lawyers' letter disclosed and to see this story spred on the web... some authorities should take action against this behaviour... why don't send Priority Dispatch Corporation a very simple count revision check commission visit? I am sure that if anyone doing something like this would receive a check of their administrative records the phenomenon would self-contain easily... =P
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Has been posted to Wikileaks
Apparently this has been posted to WikiLeaks along with the Cards documents.
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5857966
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they tried to patent checklists?????
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Patents
If you invent a new software that automates medical bed/discharge management with more efficiency then McKesson and its open source, do you think you'll have a prayer against them taking it and leaving you and all your developers nothing. If you have a patent, you can prevent them from doing it. How would you solve this issue? Deny it's existence?
We have to find a medium between not abusing patents and protecting original ideas that have profound impact on our advancements.
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So get their patents invalidated here
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Was this ever posted to chillingeffects.org?
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It says :"
13. A system for integrating a computer aided dispatch system and an emergency medical dispatch protocol, as recited in claim 11, wherein said operating system is selected from the group consisting of MS-DOS, Windows, Unix, AIX, CLIX, QNX, OS/2, and Apple."
So, if you use Linux you are off the hook !!
Linux is not unix (although is a variation it is standalone)
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Blues and Twos
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