Two People Can Have The Same Idea... It's Not Necessarily 'Theft', Infringement Or Plagiarism
from the creativity-knows-no-bounds dept
Someone who prefers to remain anonymous alerts us to the fact that some Icelandic movie producers are apparently furious and considering a lawsuit because they claim an episode of the TV show Heroes "stole" a scene (yes, just a scene) from a movie they produced. The link above has clips of both scenes, and there's simply no case at all here should they sue (and hopefully they won't). You see various lawsuits all the time with people claiming they came up with some generic concept for a TV show or movie, but it never sticks. Lots of people have the same basic ideas. Copyright infringement, on the other hand, requires actual copying of the specific content. Not just the general idea. Yet, if you watch these two clips, they're only loosely similar. They both involve a blonde-haired woman (who is clearly not a comic book fan), applying for a job in a comic book shop. That's about where the similarities end.But, once again, this is indicative of the culture that we've created in this world with over-aggressive expansion of intellectual property laws, where people really do think that ideas are ownable, and as long as they were "first" no one else can possibly have a similar idea.
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Filed Under: heroes, infringement, plots
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I think there isn't enough information to draw such sweeping conclusions about "over-aggressive expansion of intellectual property laws". But hey, it wouldn't make for a good blog if you didn't.
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Does it allude to where you get your stuff, or where your put your stuff?
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Actually, no it would not. It's a simple fact that under the law you cannot copyright the idea of a blonde who doesn't like comic books but who decides to work at a comic book store anyway.
Any copyright the Icelandic movie has would be in the actual dialog, not in the general idea.
As I've stated here before, the idea of a TV show about an innocent person on the run from the law who helps people each and every week, only to escape in the nick of time to start off in a new town the next week, has been done numerous times.
The Fugitive (TV show), the Hulk (70s TV show), Renegade, Kung Fu, The Pretender, just to name a few.
Despite all of these shows using the same basic idea, i.e., the same basic plot, absolutely no one "owns" the idea or the plot.
"I think there isn't enough information to draw such sweeping conclusions about "over-aggressive expansion of intellectual property laws"
And yet you're a person who actually thinks that a blonde who doesn't like comic books who applies to work in a comic store can somehow be owned. Your erroneous beliefs in how copyright works are "over aggressive" and would expand copyright and other IP laws. So, once again, people like you only prove Mike correct.
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The hell it would, you idiot!
If this were the case, nothing new would ever be produced again. Hell, even reading the Harry Potter series, I definitely saw references to ideas already used.
I recently watched a show which resembled my experience to the letter. Should I take offense they used my experience in this show?
I enjoy your posts, Harold, if nothing more than to help show your ignorance.
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It seems to me, nobody could be this poorly informed.
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Even portraying ignorance of this caliber is, indeed, the best acting I've ever seen.
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You should learn: chatting with people you agree with teaches you nothing. That's why the idiots that listen to Rush Limbaugh are called "dittoheads" because they have nothing new to add.
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To make it worse, when you're corrected, you still cling to your false ideas.
In essence, you are the very definition of a troll, unless you really believe the crap you're typing is true, and then you're somehwere between a sheep and a shill.
Nothing personal, mind you, I just know what you show us in your posts.
Have a wicked decent day.
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You may not LIKE it, but that is different than reality.
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In the Sandler case, which is just starting, the plaintiff claims that the entire premise of the movie was stolen from his copyrighted work, one that he had pitched to the studios himself.
Different than this wild claim you have that "plenty" of cases have the courts siding with plaintiffs because a setting was re-used.
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What would happen if one of the writers came into a script meeting with the DVD, and said "you guys have to see this" and they decide to pretty much do the same scene?
Plus, this isn't "two guys walk into a bar...", it is very specific set of circumstances.
"hotter looking girl walks into a comic book store that is advertising a job in the window. There are many geeks in the place that are interested in her. The person she talks to tries to hit on her and also lectures and tests her about her knowledge. In the end she doesn't really want the job, but with all the geeks drooling on her and the store getting busy, she gets hired anyway".
Now, there are variations on the theme, but that is pretty much the scene (from a quick view of each clip). Inspired by and copied from are sometimes too close to tell apart.
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But to get to that point, you have to show some infringement. "Pretty much the same scene" is not infringement.
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You cannot claim infringement of a general nature, it has to be very specific - copying all of the dialog would be a slam dunk. This case isn't a slam dunk, but it isn't exactly hard to find some very clear similarities.
The question of similarities is a matter for the courts, I guess. I can see where they might see similarities, and I can see where there are differences. What it takes to constitute an infringement is up to the courts. My entire point on post 1 is that it is too easy to load this up on the "too much copyright", without considering all the information. I am sure that more information would change some people's views of the situation.
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WHAT??? You absolutely CAN NOT copyright the concept of a CSI show. There are procedural crime shows all over all the networks. NBCs bread and butter happens to be Law and Order rather than CSI, but there is absolutely NOTHING stopping them from starting their own CSI show. They just can't call it CSI because of something called trademark (NOT copyright). They could even use a similar or nearly identical plotline as long as they use their own dialog, characters, and presentation.
Ugh, why do I bother. You, sir, are truly, unapologetically clueless.
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Put it another way, if CSI Miami was made by another group on another network, it would likely bring the lawyers out.
It's just how things are, and the networks carefully avoid stepping on each other to avoid having their lawyers get rich.
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try again.
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try again.
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I watched both clips, and there really isn't enough similarity to even imply that the Heroes writers had ever seen Astropia. It is the same concept that has been used many times over: Take a hot girl and make her work in an office/store filled with geeks/nerds/whatever.
In fact, I remember a feud about five years ago between two webcomic authors who used an almost identical setup as these clips for the basis of their artwork (with one substituting a video game store for the comic store).
These film producers need to chill out about their 'property', unless this is just trying to generate awareness for their film.
It is also a pretty obvious plot line for the Heroes writers to take. Picture the story meeting - they decide that one of their comic book heroes who happens to be an attractive blonde needs to get a job. If all of the writers start brainstorming what kind of job, how long do you think it would take for someone to suggest that it would be ironically appropriate and make for good banter if she worked in a comic shop? They have dealt with comic books directly on the show several times in the last few seasons already, it isn't a big leap.
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The magic is in between "inspired from" and "lifted almost intact from". That is for the courts to decide. Again, my only point is that it is awfully early in this particular process to be slamming the crap out the copyright laws with so little knowledge as to circumstances. It's a rush to judgement, only becuase that judgement is in support of the local cause.
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The fact that this discussion has gone on this long, and that there is a lawsuit of the idea for a single scene, in and of itself, shows that copyright laws absolutely deserve to be bashed.
They are obviously too big, wide, and strong if somebody can sue over something so simple and done differently.
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Re: "It would depend on if anyone involved with Heroes had seen that clip or movie before."
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Can someone sue them for copying real life?
We both laughed at that particular scene in Heroes.
EtG
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Compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCOl9v0b0zM
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Plus, the Astropia movie is constructed around geek culture.
It boroughs greatly from things like dungeons and dragons and The Matrix. They are complaining Heroes "stole" one of their ideas, when they themselves "stole" many others. Scenes like these are often considered an homage, a tip of the hat, from one creator to another, not plagiarism. After all, one copies the ideas one likes. :)
I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a publicity/marketing stunt to make the Astropia movie more widely known in the US.
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I have an idea..
If I hear of anyone else getting away for the weekend, I'm going to sue for patent infringement. If I hear anyone talking about it or I see a movie where someone gets away for the weekend, I'll sue for copyright infringement. If I hear of anyone using the words getaway and weekend together, I'll sue for trademark infringement.
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Blades of Glory
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Astropia copied from Star Wars
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Re: Astropia copied from Star Wars
Think about it, A boy with magical abilities is rushed off to live with his aunt and uncle, by an old man with the same magical abilities, after his parents are killed. Boy eventually figures out he has the magical abilities and goes off to be trained. Due to an evil force with the same magical abilities, boy loses his mentor and eventually stops his training. Boy then goes of to fight the main evil and wins. Everyone lives happily ever after.
If Weird Harold is correct and Heroes is ripping off this movie than Harry potter is ripping off Star Wars even more.
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Which part of this makes it different than "two guys walk into a bar"? The fact that she is blonde? Or hot? Maybe the fact that geeks work at the comic book store...that must be it.
You have got to be the dumbest person that posts here. That's impressive considering posters like angry dude come here, but I think he just loves to troll him some interwebs.
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Not specific enough. One has dark brown hair and one has a little lighter brown hair. Now if they were both blonde then I would agree with you.
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Silly Harold
My entire point on post 1 is that it is too easy to load this up on the "too much copyright", without considering all the information. I am sure that more information would change some people's views of the situation.
Just the fact that we are discussing with you, whether the idea of a hot girl applying to a store which she has no knowledge of and getting the job because guys think she is hot proves that there is indeed too much copyright. Its a very simple idea that has been demonstrated in real life many many times over. There is a hot girl at the local game stop here who knows nothing about video games. So the guy in Iceland clearly does NOT have a new idea.
Your coming here to say that it could possibly, even if stretched, be copyright infringement proves our point that there is too much copyright. Most normal people would laugh it off or say thanks for the creative nod. The unimaginative and greedy who think ideas can be owned would rather sue.
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http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/12/080512fa_fact_gladwell
Essentially, Malcolm Gladwell makes the case for the ubiquity of simultaneous, independent invention.
Although looking at some of the cartoons in that May 2008 issue dated it (pre-economic collapse) extensively -- like the one where the big screen TV alerts you that your neighbors just bought a bigger screen TV.
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It's about a guy, who is completely clueless, but then pretends otherwise because he likes stirring the pot, to get attention. The name of the show would be "Strange Harry". In the end no one listens to Harry, and he's forced to shut the hell up. What do you think? Like, dislike? Go, no go? Just checking...
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Asking me to "shut up" is just proof that it is easier to try to shout an unpopular opinion down than it is to consider it.
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And now, we are facing some greedy businessmen/lawyers/whatever you want to call them claiming that their lame ideas are unique and copyrighted!! Damn... I think I'm going to put a copyright on "THE"... From now on I'll sue everyone who will use it!!
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Hmm..
;)
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It took me all of four minutes to read all the comments, and about 30 seconds to write that out. I wasn't telling you to shut up because your idea is unpopular, it's because it has no basis in fact or reality. Have a stellar day.
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