Musician Called A Copyright Violator On MySpace For Uploading Her Own Music
from the hurray-for-copyright dept
The various record labels have pushed sites like MySpace to institute aggressive filters to try to stomp out the ability of people to upload others' music -- but as with any such filters, they seem to make mistakes that aren't easily fixed. Reader Ken Blake points us to the news that indie musician Emily Bezar had her account flagged as a copyright violator after she tried to upload five or six songs from her own self-produced CD. She's emailed MySpace's support email... and seems to have heard absolutely nothing back weeks later. But, no, overly aggressive copyright enforcement doesn't hurt anyone, right?
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: copyright, emily bezar, music, uploads
Companies: myspace
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Fishy
Warning: The preceeding message contains sarcasm. If you experience outrage lasting longer than 4 hours, consult your psychiatrist.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Fishy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Fishy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Fishy
For all we know, it could be some... some dog somewhere, uploading old Sting hits.
On the internet, nobody knows Sting is a dog. Or vis versa.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Fishy
On topic: I guess my only question would be a rights issue: Did the artist sign away any rights for distribution or marketing purposes? Is she the sole rights owner? Since she didn't report herself, it would appear someone else has "rights" here. So what is actually the full story, not the "slice" that is being told?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
Yay.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
That being said, as an indie musician, I would expect that's not the case for Emily. So I'm sticking with the dog theory.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
She is the artist here; it should be on MySpace to prove that she does not have rights, not the other way around. But if you insist...
I am about to report to Mike that you have plagiarized in your post. I will give you one response to prove that there is no copyrighted work anywhere in the world similar to your post. If your response is not satisfactory, you will be reported as a plagiarizer. Good luck.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
It has come to our attention that a commenter of yours by the name of Harold,Weird is unable to prove that he owns the rights to the words in his comments. After providing Mr. Harold a more than adequate period(c. 15 minutes) to defend himself, we are insisting that you take action to prevent any more financial harm from coming to the writer(s) whom he is inevitably stealing from.
We recommend that all comments written by Mr. Harold be removed from your site, and that Mr. Harold's IP address be banned for a period of no shorter than one year. Additionally, we hold you responsible for collecting compensatory and punitive damages from Mr. Harold of $100,000 per written word for each post he has written during the statute of limitations.
Failure to comply may or may not result in your site being reported to the Department of Homeland Security as a national security threat, as well as forfeiture of assets and deportation to Sudan.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
The Techdirt Community
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
No, that just means someone else reported her. You don't need rights to report someone on MySpace. Chances are it was an automated process that flagged her.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
/myspace doesn't care
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
...or that MySpace has a dodgy script running that incorrectly flagged the song without human interaction. Or that someone who didn't have the rights requested the songs be removed erroneously (very common if you look at the history of takedown notices).
Given that she's signed to CDBaby for distribution (which usually doesn't involve a 3rd party or label), I'd say her story is rather credible. There's also the question of why she was able to upload 3 songs but not get accepted for the rest.
"So what is actually the full story, not the "slice" that is being told?"
If MySpace could be bothered to respond to her and tell her why they removed the songs, then we'd know and she wouldn't need to get her problems advertised in this way, now would she?
I don't know, maybe she's lying or mistaken about something, but the story as being told is rather poor if even half of it is true. But, given what tends to happen with these things and the fact that MySpace will probably take the corporate side in the case of any doubt, it does ring true. Yet again, remember this is all to "protect the artists"...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Fishy
Sting is much better than what got stuck in my head... I was thinking Devo. Yikes.
"Whip it. Whip it good! I said Whip It. Whip it real good!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Fishy
No more explanation needed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishy
http://www.imagechicken.com/uploads/1238016365030262200.jpg
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The record label should just license the music back to the artist, negotiated at current compulsory mechanical reproduction licensing rates. Then the label should contact MySpace to let them know everything is copacetic and proper licenses have been obtained.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Her stupidity....
This should be a reason why to stay away from this site, especially when there are others out there.
But I guess, at $0.00 cost to advertise, it's better than nothing.
Good luck with getting the flag removed. Remember this is the same site which blew away 90,000 pedophile accounts, matching on name only.
Not a good platform to use, regardless of cost.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Her music is self-produced.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Who complained? Does someone else have rights? Has she granted any other rights? Why would someone complain about her stuff if she is the only rights holder?
Like I said, this article / post is lacking enough detail to know what is going on. Just because she produced the music herself doesn't mean she hasn't signed exclusive distribution rights or other with various companies of individuals. Perhaps even Cd Baby? ;)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Complaints
Why do you assume someone complained, genius? MySpace is notorious for running automated bots that do this sort of thing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Her music is self-produced."
Thanks, I was going to say the same thing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Well I guess
There is somethign seriously fucked about a system where a musician can't self-produce music and retain all rights associated with it.
If I go out right now and record a kick ass single in my garage I couldn't even get it played on web radio without sound exchange making money on it. Apparantly can't upload it onto my myspace. If it sounds remotely like any other song then I can't put it on youtube.
Copyright needs a serious overhaul
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Filter
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Clearly the only way to deal with the issue if it were actually a dog that uploaded the files would be to send a scary letter threatening huge legal damages but offering to settle for a few grand.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Isn't the internet suppose to route around problems and find a better solution?
Sheesh.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Thus, its fallacious to believe that someone will have a solution to a problem that would require absolute perfection to be able to pick out offenders and innocents automatically. This is why the Judicial system is staffed with actual lawyers and judges, and not AI agents.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Being accused of being a "copyright violator" has nothing to do with copyright. Yeah, it would have still happened even if there were no copyright laws.
Only in Weird Harold's world.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
She isn't accused of anything, she has been filtered and temporarily locked out until resolved. Has she not brought it up herself (and someone spread it here) I would have no opinion about her activities (legal or illegal).
However, if she tries real hard, she can fall under "masnick's law"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Let's think of an example...say the Secret Service was required to implement a new policy to deter assassins such that the only way to feasibly enact it is to fire immediately into the crowd with assault rifles anytime an agent believes he sees a potential weapon. When dozens of innocents are killed in a shower of lead, do you say, "It was a good decision, they just need to train a little more on the firing range"...or do you say, "Jeez, that was a damn stupid policy"?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The point is, give up trying to show him where he is mistaken, it falls on blind eyes. He doesn't want to look at the facts, he wants to blindly follow the rules as they are. Anything that disagrees with his views is "unbalanced".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You know, when most people say something really stupid they have the good sense not to repeat it after having it pointed out to them. Not the Weird one. But maybe he's just trying to apply Goebbel's technique.
She isn't accused of anything
From her blog: 'somehow I got flagged as a "copyright violator"'
If Weirdo wants to accuse her of lying then I think he needs to present a little more evidence than just his say-so.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The story is actually more in the end about MySpace's horrible customer service.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think you spelled the name wrong. It should be "Goebbels".
And here's a link to what I think you are referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You don't help the people you intend to support at all by being belligerent, ignorant and selective in your responses. The people here have given you plenty of opportunity for a fair and rational debate, of which you are clearly incapable.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This girl has been accused by myspace via their program of file sharing. As punishment, her account was suspended. She lost an untold number of potential fans while her page is suspended due to an accusation.
Furthermore, the only reason myspace made this script is due to pressure from Big Media. Without them, no script would be made and no page would be suspended.
How would you feel if your site was blocked for illegal filesharing, even by a script? You'd rightly be upset. So is she.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
As a side note, MySpace didn't create it just because of "pressure", they created it because of the implications of liability for information published on their domain. It's just the reality (that some companies refuse to face) of operation a system where you let random people upload information to your servers (that you control). Please see DMCA regarding hosted files directly under control of the host.
If a speed camera clocks you going 80 when you're going 60, then you've been unfairly accused of speeding. Programming error? Maybe. Still you'll be getting a ticket.
I guess you have never fought a ticket and won? Let's see - how many other tickets given on the same day. Records of all setup parameters on the speed camera. The potential that my car could be going that speed. How many tickets issued that day were contested? Etc. You have the choices to fight and try to fix things - or you can sit on your butt and pay the fine. People fight and beat traffic tickets every day. It's not special. Fixing myspace is easy by comparison.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
In other words, you would have to expend both time and energy (and possibly money if you get a lawyer involved) to prove that you're innocent. That, in a nutshell, is the entire problem with the current system of automated takedown notices, whether it's myspace or your local ISP - everyone is guilty because a script said so, and it's up to them to prove that they're innocent.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
MySpace is so easy to solve: STOP USING IT.
MySpace is only as good as it's users. If you are stupid enough to keep using it, even as it screws people over, then you are part of the problem.
Want to help this girl? Start an anti-myspace campaign. Protest. Scream. Delete your profile. Convince your friends to delete their profiles. Go to other people's profiles and say "I won't buy your music if you stay on My Space". If you are truly upset, do something, don't debate it - do something.
I dare you :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Now hold on just a minute there. You've been claiming that there was no complaint. To now say that they were acting in response to the DMCA, which to the best of my knowledge would most likely require a complaint, seems patently duplicitous.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I didn't say that there was a DMCA complaint. I am saying that what MySpace is doing (in checking file uploaded automatically and flagging accounts with excessive uploads in short order) is to avoid certain issues that might lead to these types of complaints.
Myspace hosts the content directly on their domain. For all I can tell from the outside, MySpace is responsible for the content on their domain and their servers. I think they have a much harder time falling under the "innocent host" routine.
I am not saying that they have a DMCA for this case, but I can see where they actions are done in a way to cut down the DMCAs they have to deal with.
As for this "artist" (I have no idea who she is really), if she has a website, great. Excellent, whatever. I didn't know there was a test here.
BTW, Her myspace page is up. I don't know what the fuss is about.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So you were just pointing out the chilling effect of the DMCA on legitimate activities?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you've got some kind of inside information to back that up, Harold, then let's see it. Otherwise, I'm calling bullshit and saying that you're making crap up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
She is being barred from a valuable and popular method for promoting her own music. The reason for this is copyright, which is supposedly in place to protect the artists (the excuse used even if the artist isn't the legal copyright holder).
"She isn't accused of anything, she has been filtered and temporarily locked out until resolved."
That's the problem. She's been locked out for weeks without an explanation. In the meantime, she's lost all the potential exposure that having the music on MySpace could bring and thus potential sales/concert bookings/etc.
So, she's potentially being screwed out of income and she does what any ordinary person does when they have a complaint about a corporation - she makes her complaint public. Yet, the fact that she's felt the need to speak out publicly somehow makes her complaint invalid?
Aren't you the one bemoaning the fact that YouTube make money instead of the artists in other threads? Or does that only count for famous people?
Again, most people accept we only have one side of the story. But, until MySpace break their silence (which prompted the blog post to begin with), we have to make assumptions. So fact, the evidence in favour of my assumptions seems the be greater, but we'll wait and see.
(P.S., if you're going to quote "Masnick's Law", read what it means. Again, it's got bugger all to do with what's being discussed here. It's like discussing evolution with creationist who thinks that evolution has something to do with the origin of life...)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
As for the girl, well, a couple of things to note: "Weeks" is actually 2 weeks, 1 week for her to make a public post. Now the kicker - the public post is made on the myspace blog site. Sort of odd, isn't it? 1 week isn't a ton of time, and considering email is the only thing she reports using, I think the public wasn't the next place to turn. They made this thing called a phone. Remarkable device. you dial 310-969-74XX (won't put the whole number) and you end up at myspace customer service. Amazing. I also think it would take less effort than making a blog post.
Again, being that myspace is a private company, there is no guarantee or "right" to use the service, and any income lost for any system outages, technical issues, or false flagging are all just part of using the system. Her losses are more because she doesn't run her own website, and relied instead on a free service by a third party.
Perhaps she should work on making her own website and branding herself that way, using facebook and myspace and twitter to drive traffic to her personal site, not one at the mercy of the apparent idiots running myspace these days.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This will only hurt their business.
Also, in regards to an ISP three strikes policy, if you think it won't be an automated system then you're just foolish. I don't know about you, but I would be very pissed if I were booted off the interwebs for something I didn't do. Pissed enough to take my business elsewhere.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
This has everything to do with copyright. Their script is preventing her from benefiting from her copyright. Granted, Myspace is a private entity and there is no cognizable claim. However, stories like this should make people all the more suspect of measures to implement copyright filtering on the ISP level (this site has reported on many such stories). This should ESPECIALLY concern people regarding proposed government measures to have people permanently banned from the internet once their ISP has received 3 notifications of alleged infringement (see the recurring posts about New Zealand and its current copyright debates).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
1) her copyright benefits are not lost. She didn't lose control of her music or anything like that. A private service declined her uploads. In "masnick's law" that would pretty much be there loss, not hers.
2) This has nothing to do with 3 strikes. Again, no notice of infringement was sent to anyone, just an automated system shut down her uploads and her account because of something it saw. I see no "strike" here.
3) mixing totally unrelated issues and attmepting to create controversy is the reason why so many people laugh at so called pundits who go off on this stuff.
The only 3 strikes I see in this discussion are those three right there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
MySpace enacted this policy solely in order to comply with the entertainment industry's desired 3 Strikes law. But what does it matter to them that as a result, actual artists that don't give them a cut are collateral damage?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
3 strikes? are you kidding?
I am actually banging my head on the deak trying to figure out this stuff. You guys seem to think that an automated system triggering a shutdown is somehow going to be a strike that loses this girl her ISP? ARE YOU KIDDING? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?
It's an explainable circumstance that would leave MySpace with an ass load of liablity if it wasn't corrected - I am certainly that MySpace wouldn't participate in a 3 strikes program and report what their automated system did, because they would find themselves on the ass end of some massive lawsuits that they would lose every time.
This isn't some teenager download pr0n in mom's basement from the pirate bay. It's a musician uploading her own freaking songs.
You guys really need to stop worrying about the copyright gunman behind the grassy knoll. He ain't there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You are kidding, right? You don't know the difference? ANYWAY!
As for MySpace, if the girl feels her reputation is somehow tarnished by this labeling, she just has to start the old defamation of character lawsuit thing, and I am sure that someone in the MySpace legal department would answer.
Plus, read her comments "I wrote them a week or so ago at the support email address, hoping to get my page here exorcised and some reset-button pushed but I think I must be 34,915th in line for service." - so her entire attempt to resolve this massive oppression of her rights as an artist has been an email to support.
Yup, she's worked hard to resolve the issue. In the words of Ned Flander's parents, "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
It is, but you're still here for some reason...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Thanks, whoever you are...
"When a good time turns around, You must whip it!
You will never live it down, Unless you whip it!
No one gets away, Until they whip it!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Good Job, Mike!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You miss the point.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: You miss the point.
This ain't anything to do with "the old music industry", just a bug at myspace.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: You miss the point.
So clearly this has nothing to do with the music industry.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ode to Weird Harold
Not to reduce it to a child's level, but from day one with you, you ran into the soccer game in progress and wanted to make us play kickball.
Techdirt existed well before you got here. You can play Soccer with us, your not taking our ball to play kickball regardless of how many people you have that want to play.
If you have a problem with this, go elsewhere.
You seemed fixated on the current method of operation, whereas we think about things in a future sense. This is the fundamental difference between what we contribute versus your contributions. Acceptance of the current way is fine with you, but your *not* at that place. We don't accept the status quo. We theorize on what things would look like merely if a few fundamental things could change.
This is not your sandbox. Quit it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Ode to Weird Harold
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Ode to Weird Harold
FYI.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Ode to Weird Harold
Anonymous Coward would be happy.
This is called "territorial Operations" when the navy does it along international water limits.
Good thing you know navy terms. I prefer to consider it a Proper Noun, and capitalize Navy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Ode to Weird Harold
Furthermore, I think it should be coined "naval terms", but I could be wrong there.
Also, navy doesn't always require a capital letter, as when speaking of a navy, but he needed a capital for speaking about the Navy.
This PSA has been brought to you by the Naval association of The navy terms. :P
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You seem unwill, or unable, to see the bigger picture. Perhaps this stems from a lack of familiarity with current copyright and technology issues. However, if you can't see the relevance of copyright law to this story insofar as it relates to things such as the proposed 3 Strikes Plan (http://techdirt.com/articles/20090323/1311354215.shtml), I am not sure what to tell you.
The use of code to protect copyrights is central to the key issues facing our copyright regime these days. Look no further than the DMCA.
If you are interested in these issues, a great starting place is Larry Lessig's "Code: And Other Laws of Cyberspace" -- http://www.amazon.com/Code-Other-Laws-Cyberspace-Version/dp/0465039146
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
This has nothing to do with 3 strikes, or anything else. Attempting to attach something like this to a big picture pretty much makes you look ridiculous for trying. Myspace apparently has an automated system to trap out file sharers that have abused their systems. Combine that will crappy customer service (aka none), and that is the whole story.
As for Mr Lessig: from Wikipedia: "Lawrence Lessig (born June 3, 1961) is an American academic and political activist. He is a professor of law at Stanford Law School and founder of its Center for Internet and Society, and will soon re-join the faculty at Harvard Law School.[1] Lessig is a founding board member of Creative Commons, a board member of the Software Freedom Law Center and a former board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.[2] He is best known as a proponent of reduced legal restrictions on copyright, trademark, and radio frequency spectrum, particularly in technology applications."
Honestly, I don't expect to get a balanced view from a proponent of reduced legal restrictions on copyright. I suspect I would be getting more of Mike, perhaps using slightly longer words.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
If you can't see the implications stories such as this one have on the propriety of a 3 Strike System you are incredibly dense.
This is only confirmed by your masquerading as some form of authority on intellectual property related technological issues while not being familiar with Larry Lessig.
Good day to you, sir.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
So...anybody that supports a view other than your own cannot be relied upon to provide merited logic or evidence to the discussion?
You're like the people way back when that refused to believe the world is round: "Anybody that disagrees is a heretic!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
What I think is this: If you want to get a true grasp on reality, asking the 1% of people at the extreme of any issue won't get you closer to reality. You may understand a little bit more about what they are fighting about, but you are no closer to the reality of the situation.
We are not going to get an all white (100% free everything no copyright hurrah!) solution, nor will we get an all black (everything is copyright and you must pay for everything all the time by the minute you little thieves). The real answer is somewhere in the middle, in the grey, which in reality is where the system is now - nobody is particularly happy, and nobody is significantly happier than anyone else.
Proposals that say "make it all free" and proposals that say "lock it all up" are wonderful theoretical exercises for college professors and legal scholars. The real answers are closer to what you or I or someone between us thinks, not the extremes.
The biggest problem of extreme positions is that they have no allowance for the other side at all. What is worse is when a reader falls for the position and THINKS it is the middle ground, without understanding the other side (or by just learning to call the other side names... Lars Ulrich seems to get some good ones tagged on him here).
That is why I sort of laugh when people get all upset at me for my opinions. The reality is that when you get too far off to one side, every other opinion closer to the middle looks like it is at the other end, because you are looking and everything is in a line, one obscuring the other so you think they are all together. People calling me an RIAA shill really gets me laughing, only because it confirms how far off the map their own opinions are.
Mr Lessig is a very smart and very well informed man who has chosen to work from some pretty extreme positions. I don't dismiss his opinions out of hand, but when I see where he is coming from, I am not surprised by his opinions. Sort of like asking the pretzel man if the pretzels are good. His are always the best around, but it isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You didn't even know who he was 30 minutes ago! Have you based this opinion on his Wikipedia entry?
Care to expound on the extreme positions that Lessig has advocated?
Lessig falls in the middle ground you claim to strive for. He is a trained economist who simply realizes that our system of copyright has conferred a far larger monopoly than is required for the purposes of "promoting the progress of Science and the Useful Arts." It should also be noted that this is the conclusion of just about everyone who is in any way affiliated with the practice of intellectual property law, myself included... save for representatives of the largest copyright holders (RIAA, MPAA, etc...).
I am somewhat new to this site. But it has only taken me one day to realize how little you know about the topics on which you act like an authority.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
However, if the only way to convince you of any position is to present you with the opinion of somebody you agree with more than yourself, then our efforts are pointless and moot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Honestly, I find Mike to be more middle of the road than that, and he is pretty far OVER THERE as far as I can tell.
Too often, the debate is crowded by people trying to turn a mole hill into a mountain, example of turning an automated blocking by myspace into some sort of major incident that proves that the copyright system is defective. It's laughable, but it is pretty typical in attempting to stir people's emotions up to make them rally more of less blindly to a cause.
Do I love copyright? Nope, not all the time. But I have yet to see a replacement system that would actually encourage development, protect artists, and encourage investment in arts, sciences, and the like. Most of the solutions out there imply a certain socialist spin, which really won't line up with the capitalist ways of the US.
So I am all ears for replacements for the systems, but replacements have to replace it for everyone, not just for a chosen few or under a few carefully selected circumstances. The implications of poorly thought out change is disaster and disorder.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, it certainly isn't.
"I ignore the cow plop coming from the RIAA and MIAA as well, because it is just that, cow plop."
Well, you certainly repeat it enough.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Same happened to me...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WH is just following the **AA's script
He learned that the truth doesn't matter, if you repeat the same lies over and over, ignore anything people say that is contrary to what you are lying about, and if you are louder and more obnoxious than anyone else, some people will eventually believe you.... It doesn't make any sense and it's not logical, but hey, it worked for the music industry for years, so why not for WH?
It doesn't matter what you say to WH, he's just not going to get it. Half the time his comments support the position he's trying to tear down, and the rest of the time he's just spouting nonsense.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WH is just following the **AA's script
Basically, you are a moron, probably living in Mom's basement posting between periods of studying the 10th grade math you have failed 4 years in a row.
Go away roach.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Who runs MySpace? What are their connections to content producers and the **AA? What political influence do they have? Who will the US government turn to for information about copyright violators?
Those are the questions you need to answer in order to become (slightly) less ignorant.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Are you really so dense that you don't understand this?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I swear that's the only way he'll finally get it...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
No. In fact times like these remind me of Pastor Martin Niemöller's poem:
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
-
-
-
-
Weird Harold's head
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Maybe they're on our side...
If she is a dog, literally, the instrumentals are likely outside of our human hearing range anyway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The cause for concern is that the technology that will be used for the 3 Strike system will likely be similar in nature to that used by MySpace.
It really isn't that complicated, Harold. You are frustratingly dense.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
All of this for that? Do you make your tin foil hat shiny side in or shiny side out? It makes a difference, I heard.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
No, dumby. People point to stories like this as further proof that a 3 Strike system is a HORRIBLE idea.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
You are getting all excited about an automated flagging system, which apparently went a little wonky, and somehow tagging it onto an RIAA 3 strikes lose your ISP deal?
You would need an extension arm to be able to reach that far.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, but it is a faulty system that flagged the copyright owners as a violator, apparently without recourse. And that's a problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I guess we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good anti-establishment rant, right?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You're my favorite antidisestablishmentarianist.
The facts are that she was flagged by a faulty system created to appease a third party claiming to protect the rights of "the artist" they just hurt.
Imagine if a faulty program flagged you as a terrorist, preventing you from flying. Now, the private airline has every right to deny you service, so they didn't exactly do anything *wrong*, but you'd still be pissed off, and who knows who else will see that you are flagged a terrorist and take different, perhaps more destructive, actions against you.
Weeks later, they clear the whole mess up, and you can fly again. No harm no foul?
Please.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I changed my mind
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I changed my mind
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Thats
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Do Re Mi
Is Do Re Mi copyrighted, copywritten, copywrote ... ahhh screw it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Holy Jesus God!
You are getting all excited about an automated flagging system, which apparently went a little wonky, and somehow tagging it onto an RIAA 3 strikes lose your ISP deal?"
Wow...every day you amaze. You are SO ideologically and dogmatically opposed to ANY criticism of copyright issues that you completely miss the underlying point of all of this. Maybe you ARE that stupid.
BECAUSE of groups like the RIAA, MPAA and other copyright holders PUSHING and SUING so vehemently over copyright infringement, we now have providers (and not JUST ISP's: YouTube, MySpace, and other "portal" or social type sites) reacting by implementing a 3 strikes rule SO THEY DONT GET BLAMED AND SUED BY THESE *IAA ASSHOLES. The level of intimidation and threats of lawsuits has pushed them to start adopting these sorts of measures. so, yes, "3 strikes" CAN apply to a place like MySpace. 3 strikes - lose your myspace account. No appeal, no evidence, no recourse. YOU may not like MySpace (and I dont really, either) but OTHER PEOPLE DO LIKE AND USE IT. It can be a big help for people to find out about musicians like this. If you cant see how this is harmful, please, by all means, STOP COMMENTING ON STUFF YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND. The internet wont miss you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yes, but...
And you DO have a point here. In absolute terms, MySpace is under no obligation to be fair to her (or anyone) or to take the side of its users over the big media corps. But, just as in MANY other posts I have pointed out to you, just because you CAN do something DOESNT MEAN IT MAKES GOOD BUSINESS SENSE to do so. Can you not see that effectively selling our YOUR USERS is not good business? Who would WANT to use a service that would arbitrarily cut them off for no good reason AND then not allow for any redress of the situation? Really, can you not understand that? I guess you cant see that, with your head so far up your industry buddie's asses.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yes, but...
I stopped worrying about what other companies than my own do, especially when I see them being self destructive. MySpace is taking what was a massively dominant position in the market, and working hard to kill it. Their service may be free, but that doesn't free them from customer service obligations.
This girl has a case and a point, but I think she could do just as much good getting on the phone and getting to it, not just sending in an email and waiting. If she is losing that much business / exposure / credibility / whatever it should be worth her effort to do something more.
As a side note, would you think it better perhaps if artists would have to register first with MySpace and somehow confirm their account (I dunno, credit card charge or something) to say this is their account, and that it would give them permission to upload say, I dunno 5 songs to start out? perhaps the system should only allow one new song on an account, and then after X number of days and additional song, etc? Would she have hit the filters if she had just ripped a single song and uploaded it?
There are plenty of ways for MySpace to improve - but there is also a nice big space in there for a new player that isn't so arrogant or so easy to screw with.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Yes, but...
Why are you always looking for ways to place limits on things that don't require limits at all?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Yes, but...
Put it another way, why wouldn't an artist want to make sure they have control over their own page?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The world is coming to an end!!
I agree with Harold on something!
Believe it or not, I was wondering myself why she didn't have a personal website where she could upload songs to her heart's content. Web hosts (that you pay money for) generally don't automatically scan all website content looking for copyright violations in the same way that MySpace seems to.
I didn't mention it because it's tangential to the story, but it would be a better long-term solution. Still doesn't get MySpace off the hook, though.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The world is coming to an end!!
And, no, web hosts generally don't auto-scan files on their servers, but they do charge for bandwidth, unlike MySpace.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I'd like to thank you Weird Harold. Whenever I'm feeling down on myself, I just visit techdirt, and see what stupid arguments you are getting into this time.
I guess every village needs one idiot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Survey Time!
http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/565070-152641
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yes, but...
No, sorry, you dont get to bail out on the argument that easily. YOU were the one who stood up and DEFENDED MySpace on this topic, against all reason. YOU chose to step out in support of an oppressive system of "uploaded song=infringement/violation" when everyone and their brother told you how wrong it was. YOU stuck your ill-informed, industry-brown nose into this, so YOU get to bear the brunt when your arguments are refuted. Grow a pair, man up, take your medicine, and dont cut and run when the discussion doesnt go your way.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yes, but...
Once I get past all your name calling, I just realize you can't read very well, and that you are so busy projecting stuff onto me that it doesn't matter what I say.
Like I said: Girl got caught by automated filters (and as been cleared now),nothing more. No 3 strikes, no reports to the RIAA (why?), no grand branding of her as a bad person. Automated filters are key.
I defend MySpace's right to look at multiple music file uploads from a brand new user as suspicious. They are responsible for what is on their site, and they are at least trying to work on it and stop abuses. Is it better than a million files are shared without permission so that one "artist" doesn't have to wait a couple of days to get their full cup of "FREE!" from myspace?
Seriously, your rant is very amusing, but it shows a general lack of reading skills and a desire to do nothing but fight. I'm here to discuss ideas, not fight with a schoolyard bully.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nick, I agree. Weird Harold, you're a good sport. You take most of it in stride, and occasionally you bring up a decent point. To be fair it seems like you've been a little less inflammatory lately. I will do my best not to jump to the ad hominem.
I have to say techdirt lately really does make me think of that xkcd comic: http://xkcd.com/386/ I'm sure we can all relate (even you WH). It's all in good fun, I hope.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Sort of like listening Rush Limbaugh's radio show. They call them fans "dittoheads" for a reason, because they have nothing else to do except kiss limbaugh's fat behind and tell him he is right. You learn a bunch more about yourself listening to the other side.
Funny cartoon - I long since learned to go to bed ;)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WeirdHarold
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Harold
#116:
"You learn a bunch more about yourself listening to the other side."
In any case, I don't begrudge him. I don't get angry at people for their opinions, and welcome the opposing point of view. I tend to take opposing points of view in any argument just for the fun of it, anyway.
I do agree that we would be much better off without copyright law. Patents, sure, on actual inventions, are useful. Copyright on ideas, not so much. It's amusing because this was written about long ago in various books, and I'm reminded of a Sci-Fi short story "Melancholy Elephants" about the danger of copyright being extended. I think it was written in the 60s?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Go away roach."
I'm have enough self confidence that I don't need to worry about what internet trolls think of me, but if I was going to be insulted by what a troll had to say, this is the best you can come up with?
While I was studying for 10th grade math (about 20 years ago), I at least learned some critical thinking and reasoning skills that allow me to see, understand, and comprehend the entire picture, and form an objective opinion based on the facts, not what some industry shill claims. If you really had any understanding of the actual problems caused by the industries who push for copyright, patent, trademark, and IP 'protections', you wouldn't be so quick to defend them at every turn.
It's not worth rehashing the explanations or arguments with you, as they have already been explained by various others in various topics here on Techdirt, but you still just fail to get it. You can't seem to comprehend that the current USE of these things (copyright, patent, trademark, etc) is not the same as what the INTENT was when they were created.
You honestly seem to think that preventing an artist from promoting their works on a privately owned system has nothing to do with copyright. But would this situation have ever happened in the first place if not for the industry pushing for stronger copyright laws (and trying to partner with ISP's to become the judge, jury, and executioner)? The answer is no, this never would have happened. So are companies interpreting copyright laws in a way that promote the progress of the arts in this case? NO. Does it matter that this situation has been rectified and her music is now available? NO.
If I was standing next to you with a gun to your head and I said, "You need to stop making contradictory comments on the internet, OR I'M GOING TO BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF." would it make any difference if I then said, "But don't worry, I've never had to pull the trigger."
Times change, laws change, if people don't respect a law (en mass), then perhaps there is a problem with the law and not with the people? The problem is that the people buying the laws (industry lobbyists) have more clout than the people, because the politicians listen to the money more than they listen to their constituents (those who bother to contact their legislators). Most of this is going on without anybody even noticing (hell, most people don't even care anymore even if they do notice), which is why Mike is trying to draw more attention to the fact that these things are going on mostly behind closed doors (international treaties are drafted in secret that call for stronger copyright/IP laws, then state/federal lawmakers point to these treaties and claim they need to pass laws to meet the treaties, then laws get passed and people end up getting screwed - it's only the ones on the end though, customers and artists, the middlemen who do nothing except expect to get paid from both ends, never seem to get the short end of the stick, wonder why that is?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
update and message to me from myspace
Though I'm impressed that my silly little myspace hassle has inspired some impassioned discussion, I have to say that everything is totally fine here and please don't fight any fight on my behalf -- I have no aspirations to take this any further, do not consider it a legal issue for ME (just a rather funny exposition of clumsy tech and the perils of massive, unsophisticated content-management systems!!!???). As you saw, I basically told people to 'go elsewhere' to hear more of my weird music....LastFM, CDBaby etc. and I consider myself well-represented online, so I do not believe that myspace owes me a thing...it's a free platform for exposing my music right? I'd completely ditch it if I could, but I've capitulated to using it at least as a main-street shingle here in the indie music world. I already get enough wonderings about my Facebook absence.
Yes, I have many ideas about copyright and its evolution and its history and what it means to me as a musician with 35 years invested in my art etc and you can find some of them in my interviews...but my myspace posting was really just a silly, light 'hello' to my fans to explain why I was only posting 3 songs when everyone else was posting 6. This was, in fact, the first time any of my tunes had been rejected by myspace.....I had uploaded successfully many times in the past and the anomaly was striking and I wondered what I had done differently that time....probably should have expanded my blog to say that.
So yeah thanks for paying attention - shocking actually and a new experience for me to go viral like this....never intended it and not sure I want it to happen again. This email isn't very articulate....I'm a bit rushed and running out for the day (great spring sun here in the bay area!!) but I wanted to get on the record about this and mostly, to show you below the email that I finally did receive from myspace with their recommendations to me. You can have fun with this one, but from this point on....please leave me out. I'll decide what to do about it - probably nothing - hey, if they offer the 'comedy-version' of copyright school maybe i'll sign up! ;) lunch must be included, of course. So, in sum, I have bigger fish to fry and I need to get working on generating new copyrighted material to give away.
all the best and good luck to each and every one,
emily
FROM MYSPACE to ME:
Hello,
Audio or video content was blocked/removed from your profile because we received a notice from the copyright owner claiming you were infringing on his/her rights, because the content was recognized by MySpace's copyright filter, or because your use of the content violated MySpace's Terms and Conditions. As a result, your uploading privileges have been suspended.
To reinstate your uploading privileges you must complete the MySpace Copyright Education Program. To get started, go to the message sent to your MySpace profile inbox with the subject “Content blocked/removed from your profile” and complete our Copyright Education Program or go to: http://collect.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=copyright. Once you complete the program your uploading privileges will be reinstated. Please note, repeat infringers’ uploading privileges will not be reinstated even if they complete the Copyright Education Program.
If you believe this content was misidentified or was removed/blocked in error, and you are the copyright owner of the content and/or have all necessary legal rights to upload the content, complete and submit a counter notice form (the “Form”) to the Copyright Agent as instructed in the message you received in your MySpace profile inbox with the subject “Content blocked/removed from your profile.” The Form will be forwarded to the party claiming to be the copyright owner. If you complete the Form, do not delete the media file in question (The media file will not be viewable to others but it needs to remain associated with your profile so it may be reviewed by the party claiming to be the copyright owner.) If you delete the media file, your counter notice will be considered withdrawn and you will not receive a response. Only complete the Form if you want to dispute the block or takedown.
MySpace terminates the accounts of repeat copyright infringers. Please be careful not to include content on your profile that you do not have permission to use so you can continue to be a part of the MySpace community.
Below please find responses to some frequently asked questions:
Can I upload a version of a song that’s not the original version?
No. You may not upload songs onto MySpace that you are not the copyright owner of. Making a remix of another’s song does not make you the copyright owner of the recordings or compositions contained in the remix. Uploading remixes of others’ copyrighted music without their prior permission can result in the restriction of your uploading privileges. MySpace also discourages covering songs owned by other artists or recording your own lyrics over another artist’s instrumentals. Using another artist’s instrumentals or making a cover song without proper permission can result in the restriction of your uploading privileges.
I promise not to upload anymore songs I am not the copyright owner of, can I have my uploading privileges back?
No. Repeat infringers’ uploading privileges will not be reinstated. If this content was misidentified or was removed in error, and you are the copyright owner of the content and/or have all necessary legal rights to upload the content, complete and submit a counter notice to the Copyright Agent as instructed in the message you received in your MySpace profile inbox with the subject “Content blocked/removed from your profile.” The form will be forwarded to the party claiming to be the copyright owner. If you complete this form, do not delete the media file in question. (The media file will not be viewable to others but it needs to remain associated with your profile so it may be reviewed by the party claiming to be the copyright owner.) If you delete the media file, your dispute will be considered withdrawn and you will not receive a response. Only complete the Form if you own the copyrights to the uploaded content and you want to dispute the block or takedown.
The pictures in the video I tried to upload are all mine, why does it say I am infringing on Copyright?
Although you may be the copyright owner of the pictures in the video you created, using copyrighted music you do not own in the background of your video can lead to your video being blocked by the copyright filter or being removed from your profile due to copyright infringement.
Thank you,
MySpace.com
Copyright Agent
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: update and message to me from myspace
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oops.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oops.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oops.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oops.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oops.
You know this may be a little weird, because I know the Warhol family, who created this whole 15 Minutes of fame thing...
Hey Mike, be a sport and remove the name listed in 125, for me??
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Poor
Probably needs a new job. Sad, Isn't it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]