Can A Library Lend A Kindle?
from the copyright-questions-for-fun-and-for-profit dept
Michael Scott point us to a fascinating question that an increasing number of libraries are starting to ask: is it legal to lend out a Kindle with some ebooks? Amazon says no -- and claims that it's a violation of the terms of service, but libraries are claiming that isn't true. The terms only bans lending out the ebooks themselves... not the device that has a purchased ebook on it (an important distinction). So, some libraries have been buying Kindles and purchasing a series of books (usually best sellers that are in high demand) and lending out the device. However, Amazon claims that it won't discuss "enforcement" on this issue, which might mean that it's not doing any -- or might mean get ready for the lawsuits. Of course, this isn't an entirely new issue. Years back, we talked about some libraries lending out audiobooks on iPods, but it seems like the Kindle situation could get a lot more attention... including the legal kind of attention.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Ever heard of Backlash Amazon?
That's all I'll say on the matter
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Re: Consumers
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Librarys get what there local population wants
From a technical standpoint the Kindle is vary easy, one trained person sets it up and anyone can loan it out just like a book.
Side note, after trying to deal with the kindle publishing staff, I dont think thay exsist anymore, its almost impossable to get a responce because its email support only and so many news papers and other daily/weekly/monthly publishers want there products on the device that Amazon dident know what it had when the device was made. Sueing your readers would stop this cold and send those publishers to look for something else.
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Amazon
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Libraries with e-Book Readers
It's only Kindle's atavistic focus on a specific piece of hardware that makes this a news story; if Amazon e-books could be read on any other platform, then the books could be lent via download.
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So silly.
It's really *not* an important distinction, from a logical point of view. Allow me to explain:
They are saying it is *not* okay to allow me to take an ebook from the library and put it on my non-kindle ebook reader (Cybook Gen 3) but it *is* okay to put it on a library bought ebook reader (presumably a kindle, but I doubt it has to be) and loan out the kindle with the ebook loaded onto it. That's ridiculous. What they're basically saying is they don't mind if everyone in the city reads the ebook, as long as they don't do it at the same time?
I just don't get it. If I go to the library to check out a book, the only reason I wouldn't be able to is if the library didn't have the book at all, or if someone had checked it out already. Now, in the digital age, libraries are supposed to pretend the digital copy that anyone can read *for free* is still scarce?
Please, please, please explain this to me. I gotta know.
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Re: So silly.
Legally, the distinction does make a huge difference.
I hope amazon sues honestly, this would bring a lot of bad and deservedly bad press, might wake people up to a lot of things. Oh do I hope they have an audiobook too or something.
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Re: Re: So silly.
I'm still not getting it. "Here, you can give the ebook away, but only one person at a time."
Seriously?
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Re: Re: Re: So silly.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: So silly.
Why don't you quote the part of the license that is supposedly violated?
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Re: Re: So silly.
Common sense would indeed dictate that we should all be able to have a copy because it is infinitely available.
However, stupid laws are once again fighting common sense.
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Re: Re: Re: So silly.
I think I need to brush up on how libraries work: are the books given to them? Do libraries purchase whatever book they feel like and just lend it over and over? Do they have a special license? Do they *need* a special license? I'm largely ignorant as to how, on a legal level, libraries work.
Just trying to think about libraries in the light of the current pro-ip culture we're in is making my head hurt. :)
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Amazon has a logical choice.
If Amazon sues over this I will boycott them forever, just on principle.
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Re: Amazon has a logical choice.
I am going to boycott if they sue one library, let's all do that as well.
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Nope
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Amazon Idiots
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Not so new a concept.
I think that these libraries are being rather stand-up about this by actually purchasing the Kindles, and that Amazon should STFU on this one. Some money is better than none, and in this case the good in question is simply being lent to others. Of course, Amazon will most likely not play nice, thus encouraging many to say eff them and go pirate the files to keep things simple.
Final thought: Mike, I'm gonna keep pushing on the use of 'Onerous' to describe dumb IP laws, so you should just give in, already.
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Re: STEALING
Errr... ummm... isn't this what libraries have always done? And am I stealing if I lend my paperback to a friend or neighbor? (That's the origin of public libraries, you know... we all get together and contribute toward the purchase of a boatload of books.) If the criterion is "... less likely to go out and buy one...", then lock us up.
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Re: Re: STEALING
Oh sorry, forgot to put the [WeirdHarold][/WeirdHarold] tags around it.
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Re: Re: STEALING
I'm glad you feel that way because Obama is working on it.
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Re: you truly are a coward
Just in case people are interested - this has been discussed and settled in most libraries a few years ago when Kindle's first came out. (I can speak with some authority as a librarian who looked into it at the time for our college library. Amazon made their position clear despite libraries asking them to consider established models that allowed for purchase of the reader and discount for bulk purchase of the books, themselves, for use on the reader or a form of site license that would allow "trading" books for a fixed number of downloads - Amazon refused to entertain the idea.
So, several libraries took matters into their own hands. Some did what was described in an earlier post, and several more purchased the Kindle reader and loaned it out. To help defer the cost of the reader and its maintenance (as well as to circumvent Amazon's prohibitive policies requiring a single _person_ purchase an e-book - as opposed to an organization), the libraries request individuals who check out the Kindle add one item to the collection it contains. Thus serving the library's purpose of collection development and materials stewards. The final group of libraries decided that enough was enough from Amazon, since they ALSO have MAJOR issues with charging a purchase order properly, despite accepting them as a form of payment. Those libraries don't order much of anything through Amazon anymore - it's just not worth the headaches!
Hope that helps illuminate the point. And, anonymous coward who thinks that libraries are stealing - remember - libraries and librarians are some of the few people/organizations that would go to jail to protect your right to disagree and express it!
Yours in freedom,
LadyGrey
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In fact, in the story there doing what thay aways did, buying a book, (this time its digital) and only leting that book go to one person at a time, if thay were to buy 100 copys of that book then 100 people could read it at the same time.
In fact there still making people have a social experance, you have to go get the book reader and bring it back when your done. Just because the cost of each copy is 0 does not mean the cost of writing the book was 0 and in fact the author is geting paid for each copy that goes out.
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I can't not choose to give money to a Library.
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What Library?
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Thanks
It was both wonderful and disturbing to see Librarians as the almost sole voices of liberty fighting the early constitution trampling of the Bush Administration. Who knew such a quiet and unassuming profession was full of such freedom fighters . . . thanks guys!
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Revenue sharing?
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What's to stop a library patron. . .
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Re: What's to stop a library patron. . .
What if I buy a book and donate it to the library? Is this a problem? Not exactly the same; I know, due to the whole finite/infinite goods distinction, but if you can buy the kindle version on Amazon you can find it in the wild.
If anything, Amazon should be embracing this idea as it gets the unit into the hands of consumers that may not want to drop several hundred dollars on something they may not like. If the experience is positive then they have the potential of increasing sales.
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Loaning out Kindles
I support copyright laws, but the way things are going is sooooooooooo dysfunctional and unworkable.
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