AP Exec Claims That Its Moves Look Stupid To The Untrained Eye... Not Clear On What The Trained Eye Thinks

Sports Fans On Facebook May Violate NCAA Recruiting Rules?

from the oh-come-on dept

Mon, Apr 13th 2009 9:12am — Mike Masnick

We've seen way too many situations where modern technology has shown how ridiculous certain rules and regulations are. The latest involves the NCAA apparently freaking out about students at certain colleges setting up Facebook groups pleading with high-profile high school sports students to attend their universities. According to the NCAA such "recruiting" violates its rules that forbid trying to influence student athletes over which college to attend. Because of this, the NCAA has pushed the universities to reign in students, to the point that NC State sent one of its students a cease-and-desist, threatening "further action" if he didn't take down a Facebook group trying to attract a student athlete. The folks who sent the cease-and-desist admit that it's ridiculous, but they had to do so due to the NCAA pressure. They're hoping that the NCAA will back down on this:

"I think nationally the NCAA needs to address further Facebook and how these groups play a part in recruiting. Is it realistic for us to be able to monitor them? What harm is a group like this causing? But as the legislation stands right now, this is the position we have to take."

Of course, this is the same NCAA that has tried to limit reporters from live-blogging sporting events (though, it's done little to enforce those rules), so it would come as no surprise if it chose to continue down this path.

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Filed Under: ncaa, recruiting, social networks, sports

32 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 9:36am

Colleges have faced bans because its Alums have violated recruiting rules before. They were not university officials but the University ended up getting banned.

I think what you forget is that the Internet is just another way of doing things, it isn't special or unique, the rules are the rules, they have to be followed no matter where they take place.
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D&D Phreak, 13 Apr 2009 @ 9:39am

Re:
"rules are the rules, they have to be followed no matter where they take place."

The epitome of a Lawful alignment.

Sadly, most rules are arbitrary and meaningless.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 9:44am

Re:
In those cases though I think the alums were giving gifts and money to prospects. Frankly, all of the NCAA's rules are idiotic anyways. College sports at the top levels is a business, barely connected to the schools at which they play.
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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:19am

I just don't see how verbal or written pleas from non-officals...
could be construed as violating recruiting rules.

So if I send an email to friend that happens to be a great athlete to come to my college then I am in violation of recruiting rules? The above scenario is not much different.

I could understand if the prospects were being offered something to come that had monetary value.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:32am

I actually went to NC State. We hate UNC (and they just won the whole thing).

Is there anything that I can do to pretend to be a fan of UNC, and get them in trouble for recruiting violations? In the absence of official ties, sabotage looks like the best route!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:40am

Move it to a Fan
So, the obvious answer is to clone the group and make the admin/owner of the group a FAN, not a STUDENT, or ALUM. Then let the NCAA penalize the school for something the school has absolutely no control over - and let the NCAA come after a person for executing their 1st Amendment Rights.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:44am

Above or below the table
NCAA rules have two purposes: 1) Keep up the appearance of purity in college sports and 2) Protecting member schools from having to put too many resources into recruiting activities. Granted, they currently put a lot into recruiting, but the rules impose some sanity checks on how much schools can do.

I know how recruiting works on our campus, and I suspect a lot of others. If someone starts setting up facebook pages to do recruiting0, then our Sports Information Director is going to think that we need to do that, too. Before you know it, every school is going to be setting up a group for every athlete that they are recruiting. Everyone associated with the athletic department will be expected to subscribe to these groups. What started as a fun impromptu activity will get turned into an institutionalized bureaucratic system.
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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:55am

Re: Above or below the table
I can agree with you to a point. The one issue I have is how and by what authority the NCAA thinks that it has right to stop someone of their own free will asking a player to come play at their college?

I am not saying that you are wrong about what would happen. I am just asking how they have the right to stop it?
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CmdrOberon, 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:56am

Sports University or Learning University?
All universities should tell the NCAA to go take
a flying leap. Universities are places of LEARNING,
not places for sports.

If you want to have a for-profit sports university,
go right ahead. Just let's give the money back to
the students who are there to get a degree in something
that's actually productive in life.

At my school, 50% of the general fee
went directly to sports. That's entirely disproportionate
to what the school is supposed to be doing, and causes
the situation where professors have to go beg for grants
because there is no money to do research.

Kick the sports out and get back to studying.
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ehrichweiss, 13 Apr 2009 @ 10:59am

Re: Move it to a Fan
Exactly what I was thinking. Do it for EVERY school though. That way the NCAA has to relax the rules or have no schools participating. Problem solved.
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Shawn, 13 Apr 2009 @ 11:32am

FUNNIEST THING EVER
" According to the NCAA such "recruiting" violates its rules that forbid trying to influence student athletes over which college to attend."

There not suppose to do this? This has been going on openly for decades now, college athlete recruiting is almost its own industry and its not hidden or secret? The NCAA is so corrupted at this point, do they really have any credibility anymore . . . not in my eyes (its just an professional sports organization that viciously exploits its athletes, nothing more).
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 11:43am

The university can ignore the NCAA if it wants but it won't get invited to its party anymore.

Its not that the school officials can't contact a high school kid at all, its just that their contact is regulated and limited.

Are there rules that don't really make sense? Of course, and some schools have absolutely no problems following the spirit of the law. Unfortunately, we all know that you can do things that are not technically against the rules but totally against the spirit of the rules. That is why you end up with stupid rules (or laws) that target specific technical issues.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 12:19pm

Yeah, your general fee helps cover athletics so students can buy cheap tickets to the events. You may not like that, but then again, I don't like my taxes paying for other peoples services either, but I live with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 12:29pm

Re: I just don't see how verbal or written pleas from non-officals...
You are are mistaken. The scenario is entirely different. You asking a friend isn't the same thing as a University asking a student. Totally different. In one you are equal in power, in the other you have power over the recruit.
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Shawn, 13 Apr 2009 @ 12:31pm

Re: Sports University or Learning University?
Reminds me of the Simpsons (where all wisdoms originates) where Bart is placing handouts for a chinease restuarant and the owner is trying to explain how important this job actually is. The more flyers get handed out the more business he gets;

"if business good, send daughters to small notheastern libral arts college, call professors by first name, get top education. If business is bad, forced to send daughters to state school, serious student no match for drunken jock-acracy . . . baseball caps everywhere . . "

LOL I always loved that . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 12:40pm

Re: Re:
"Sadly, most rules are arbitrary and meaningless."

that's what I keep telling the PoPo, but it's not working!!!
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snowburn14, 13 Apr 2009 @ 12:43pm

I love the smell of hypocricy in the...erm, afternoon
So, you can offer them a full athletic "scholarship" at the university, but you can't have students say they want them to come? How on earth does that make any sense whatsoever?

I'm with CmdrOberon on this one, at least in principle. Disassociate the teams from (what should be) places of learning. But I say let these kids join the minors at age 18, and if the minor league teams want to pay for them to go to school, like many businesses will do, let them. There's no need to get the colleges/universities involved in paying for their so-called education.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 1:06pm

Snowburn, in most cases, the athletic department brings in money for the university, it doesn't subtract from the overall money available for education.
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kirillian (profile), 13 Apr 2009 @ 1:26pm

Re:
Actually, from what I read, the exact opposite is true...only a select few universities actually profit from their Athletic Department. The rest sink millions into the department just to be competitive. Here are the first two links I found on Google:
USATODAY Article
KU-SPORTS Article

Sorry Techdirt...I'm probably subjecting yall to some sort of DMCA Take-Down notice here soon, aren't I (along with a subsequent lawsuit)?
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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 13 Apr 2009 @ 1:42pm

Re: Re: I just don't see how verbal or written pleas from non-officals...
But that is what I said "non-officials". I never said university employees and neither does the article.

"The latest involves the NCAA apparently freaking out about students at certain colleges setting up Facebook groups pleading with high-profile high school sports students to attend their universities."
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 1:55pm

Here is an easy way to avoid dealing with the NCAA, shut down all sports programs and take all that money and pour it into research and education. That is what College is all about, is it not?

Athletics can be paid for by the students that play them, not our tuition and alum boosters. Sports is not going to put food on the table when you get sidelined, or end up in jail because you are a piece of shit-po ghetto trash that cannot act like a human being.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 2:01pm

College is about growing into an adult. Should they stop offering music there also?

Quite a few students choose a university in part because of its athletic department. Donors give money to universities in part because of its athletic department. Athletics is a major way people stay connected to their alma matter. When is the last time you heard anyone arguing about the latest debate team meet?

Another issue for funding is Title 9. Most universities have to offer women sports parity in terms of sports. Sure, Ohio State might not make money off athletics, but it sure isn't because of their football or basketball teams (men or women). Its because they field 86 athletic teams.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 2:08pm

Re:
Sorry, I selected the universities that had the best programs so I could educate myself and be the best in my field. Part of my decision did reflect on athletics...

"how can I avoid a bunch of jar-head jocks, what universities are not going to offer sports programs that drain the college coffers?"

My conclusions: MIT, RIT, RPI

And since I received my PHD at 24, I think I did well without having retarded sports programs.
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kirillian (profile), 13 Apr 2009 @ 2:19pm

Re:
I'm not saying that we should drop sports just because it doesn't bring money in. But I do agree with snowburn inasmuch as I feel that colleges need to do some serious reevaluation of their priorities. Personally, a college that I just graduated from has a horrible athletic department. Only one sport, basketball, is even competitive (though I think the women's soccer team was somewhat competitive 5 years ago). Does this mean the sports department should be disbanded? Heck no. But the school is building an entirely new sports facility to replace the old one. The building is expected to cost roughly $10million. The Music Department had $1million in funds SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED toward refurbishing the recital hall (they needed it...the recital hall was a piece of crap that was built in the 60s...and it was falling apart).

The music department is actually one of the biggest magnets of the school, especially the choirs. Yet, someone in administration appropriated the funds from the music departments account, stating that "they were needed for more important things". This was the final amount needed to start construction on the new sports complex. Needless to say, the construction on the recital hall that was ALREADY in progress and almost done had to be immediately halted.

Good thinking there...

There was quite a bit of a debate that occurred around the campus and the only reason that the music department got the funds back was because someone on the School's Board got wind of the matter and fired the administrator for fraud.

Point is, that for a school where the athletic department gets about 40% of the school's budget but can't bring in that much (basically...a sinkhole), it's rather ironic that the rest of the school would be funding this department from their own budgets (I was in the small chamber choir...we pretty much made the entire music department's budget for the year (scholarships and all) in the 5-day tours that we took...Alumni liked us...and they were rather well off)
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CmdrOberon, 13 Apr 2009 @ 3:53pm

Re:
As soon as I see 50% of the general fee going to the music department,
I'll start complaining. :-)

As it is, music is probably just after the math & physic departments on
the priority list for cash. So, your comparison is rather weak.

As for title 9, you are wrong. Title 9 only requires equivalence. If there
are no men's sports, there need not be women's sports. $9 million on men's, means $9 million on women's.

Let me ask you this: How many football teams are fully funded? How many
physics research labs are fully funded?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Apr 2009 @ 4:40pm

Re: I just don't see how verbal or written pleas from non-officals...
No, you'd have a pre-existing relationship with that friend so these rules would not apply.
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dave, 13 Apr 2009 @ 7:21pm

Are students affiliated closely enough with the management of the school that it is acceptable for the school to interfere with the student's constitutional rights in this matter? That probably depends on the particular school.
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dave, 13 Apr 2009 @ 7:28pm

Re:
"the rules are the rules, they have to be followed no matter where they take place."

Or, the rules have to be changed. This isn't North Korea, if we don't like the rules, we can lobby to have them changed.

When the rules were originally written, it wasn't feasible for the average joe to gain national attention without the help of professional media outlets. That is no longer true.

What is to stop a group of alleged Alums to violate recruiting rules for a competing school, for the express purpose of getting that college banned?
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Online Sports Betting, 13 Apr 2009 @ 9:06pm

Easy way around prohibition
Students can use proxies to appear to be located abroad and fake names and maybe even use the site similar to facebook but hosted abroad, what NCAA could do then? Nothing, zip, nada - oh, no, wait, they could send an Army football team to fight abroad...
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Apr 2009 @ 9:07am

"What is to stop a group of alleged Alums to violate recruiting rules for a competing school, for the express purpose of getting that college banned?"

The fact that if you don't get the other college banned you just paid money to have a kid you wanted playing for the opposition?
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BTR1701, 14 Apr 2009 @ 11:55am

Re: Rules
> the rules are the rules, they have to be
> followed no matter where they take place.

The difference is that these aren't laws. They're just rules put in place between two parties (the university and the NCAA) who entered into a contract and agreed to them. I as a private citizen am under no legal obligation to follow the rules of some contract to which I was not a party and had nothing to do with.

Basically, the NCAA now thinks it can tell private citizens what they can and can’t say on the internet. They say this activity violates their rules against influencing student athletes. Well, my response would be "So what? Your rules only apply to the universities and their employees with whom you are in privity of contract. I’m not a member of the NCAA and I neither agreed to be nor am I legally bound by your rules."

And the universities that are bowing to NCAA pressure and trying to squelch their students' speech are opening themselves up to a significant 1st Amendment challenge.

As for alumni, once these people have graduated and are not even students any more, there's absolutely nothing either the university or the NCAA can do to stop them.
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Price Per Head Sportsbook, 11 Aug 2010 @ 10:30am

Facebook
I don't like this Facebook fever, but I don't think is fair for them to have to adapt to anyone's internal policy, how can this be legal?
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