More Congress Critters Want To Track And Tax Your Driving Habits
from the why? dept
For years, various state politicians have pushed the idea of a "mileage tax" for driving, and it's never made much sense at all. Yet, just a few months ago, we noted that some politicians in the federal government were pushing the idea as well -- even though the Obama administration said it would not approve such an idea. Still, that's not stopping some politicians. Rep. James Oberstar is so strongly in support of a plan, he says he doesn't want any pilot programs, studies or information about such a plan, he thinks it should just be implemented right now.Of course, these plans have never made much sense at all. They would be crazy expensive, in that every car would need to be outfitted with a GPS device, and then that info would have to be communicated to the government (certainly something of a privacy concern). And, the really silly thing is that we already have a much better and cheaper proxy in place: gas taxes. Not only that, but the gas tax at least encourages people to use more fuel efficient vehicles, and increases the demand for alternative energy vehicles. So it's difficult to come up with a single viable reason for a mileage tax, but that's apparently not stopping Oberstar from demanding that it be started right now.
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Filed Under: driving tax, james oberstar, mileage tax, politicians
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Like with cigarettes, they will try killing the cow for the milk.
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Re:
I can't be certain, but I think not. If they just want more money, there are already policies in place that allow for that, I.E. gas taxes. High gas taxes can also be an answer to the "How do we influence driving to save the environment" question.
No, the thing that stood out to me in this story was that wonderful three letter acronym: GPS. As best as I can tell, the only thing that this program makes sense for is movement tracking, and the government has no right to know where/when I am at any given moment (provided I'm not a felon, on parole, child molester, foriegn national, etc.)
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Has anybody checked to see if Oberstar is owner/investor in a GPS manufacturer?
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Global Economy, anyone?
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Re: BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
or take my brother who has public trans. in his area.
The GOV(umm, republicans!!) is now trying to rape and pillage us, because they effed up and allowed the banking and real estate industries to screw our economy.
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Re: Re: BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
This isn't different. It's something I choose to do. You choose to work that far away. Sure, the job you're looking for isn't close, but, you chose that career. Your personal choice. It's not like this is a communist situation where your profession is chosen for you. Right?
It's not about what I choose to do or not do. It's about being taxed for something disproportionately to other activities.
You would feel the driving tax more than I would because I only drive half as far. Which is no different than now. The only difference between then and now is that the government will be watching both of us in one way/shape/form. Also, when they want more money, they just increase the tax on those who drive more miles.
As it is, you can get around the taxes by driving a diesel car or an electric. Under the new system, you and I both would be taxed the same regardless of fuel type.. at least that is how it reads.
Oh, and for your info, in general, Republicans generally favor less taxes, less federal government, more state government, a stronger military and advantages for businesses so they can grow/employ more. A Democrat is generally for higher taxes on businesses and individuals to fund programs, government intervention to help the less fortunate, more federal programs, a smaller military.
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Re: Re: Re: BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
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Re: Re: Re: BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
You're confusing conservatives and Republicans. They used to be the same, or at least similar. They no longer are. For instance, take a look at the size of government under Clinton compared to after 8 years of Bush, even only when Republicans held a majority in Congress. Vastly greater in size.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
Generally, Republicans consider themselves conservatives and Democrats consider themselves as librals. Yes, I understand that there are libral Republicans and conservative Democrats.
The things I stated are the general rules. Otherwise, nobody would be able to identify with being either if there wasn't some sort of belief structure... subject to change depending on the wind and planetary alignment that is. You know politicians.
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Taxing my patience
Smells Walleye to me.
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Re: Taxing my patience
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But...
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not difficult at all
No, its really not difficult at all to understand. Its about money and power, as are all things when it comes to the government. They either want to control you, or take your money, as much of either as possible, preferably at the same time.
Power and Greed know no boundries.
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Re: not difficult at all
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I always thought it should be a politician's job to figure out ways NOT to tax people for crap the country doesn't need.
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If by trend, you mean the way politicians have been acting since the beginning of society.
I always thought it should be a politician's job to figure out ways NOT to tax people for crap the country doesn't need.
Contradiction in terms; government bureacrats will expand their powers until checked by a backlash of the electorate, just like your house will continue to become disordered until you act to clean it up. As long as we keep electing Democrats, non-conservative Republicans, and other politicians that refuse to eliminate taxes, spending, and over-reaching laws and regulations, they'll keep finding new ways to tax and spend.
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Greed: Death and Taxes
Tax the table At which he's fed.
Tax his tractor, Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes Are the rule.
Tax his cow, Tax his goat,
Tax his pants, Tax his coat.
Tax his ties, Tax his shirt,
Tax his work, Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink,
Tax him if he Tries to think.
Tax his cigars, Tax his beers,
If he cries, then Tax his tears.
Tax his car, Tax his gas,
Find other ways To tax his ass
Tax all he has Then let him know
That you won't be done Till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers, Then tax him some more,
Tax him till He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in Which he's laid.
Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom..."
When he's gone, Do not relax,
Its time to apply The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Commercial Drivers License license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax,
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road usage taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
SchoolTax
StateIncome Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago,
and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class
in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened?
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more than money?
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Re: more than money?
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The GOV(umm, republicans!!) is now trying to rape and pillage us, because they effed up and allowed the banking and real estate industries to screw our economy.
(* /quote *)
To the clown who wrote the above:
Rep. James Oberstar is a union loving Democrat.
Also, everyone is assuming here that there would be EITHER a gas tax or mileage tax. Have you not been paying attention. The Democrats WANT BOTH.
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You need to check your facts there - it's a majority democrat right now.
But that's really immaterial. The whole Democrat/Republican charade is just to make people think it's two different parties; rather than just one party pillaging the taxpayers.
They 'talk' alot about two parties - but the 'actions' they take lead many to believe that's not the case at all.
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It's not that it's a targeted tax (thought that sucks too), it's the basically needless privacy violation.
For years, Democrats wanted to tax and tax gas, cuz they thought you used too much gas, and it's hurting the environment. Now, boo hoo, people are using too little gas! I'd think that'd be mission accomplished. (even though I do not particularly share their mission) But no, govs gotta get it's crack somehow. What kinda bait and switch is that?
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It's not that it's a targeted tax (thought that sucks too), it's the basically needless privacy violation.
The funny thing is, if you switched the motivation from incentives to help the environment to aiding intelligence against immigrants and terrorists, most Republicans would be supporting this and Democrats decrying it. The way it seems to work anymore, one party picks a side on a particular ideology, the other side plays devil's advocate, and the party members follow the mob regardless of their individual policy views. Pretty sad.
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I don't even think this guy WANTS to spy on people. He's just an idiot whop can't think through the implications.
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.....Wrong. For instance, Idaho Gov. Butch Otter, Republican.
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http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/526597.html
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minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/03/18/mileage_tax/
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Sigh.
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Just the same, no Republican has, nor I think, ever would, support this style of tax.
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No...it's just more tax!
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Milage Tax
Tax rebates are given for "green" cars
Tax revenue declines because cars drive further on less gas (less gas sold = lost revenue)
So, adding the fact that tax breaks are given for buying the fuel efficient cars coupled with the less gas being sold...govt is losing money.
That said, to try to track and collect taxes on mileage recorded from a GPS device, to me, is full of it.
GPS isn't 100% accurate as anyone who's gotten stuck in a city using one can attest. They don't function well when the is blocked by buildings.
Not even going to get into the circumvention and the money that would have to be spent constantly upgrading and securing the devices for the myriad of ways around it that would pop up after 2 months of use.
At that point the tax would be increased because they would be losing money supporting the device.
Pretty stupid really, but that's apparently the name of the game.
I say cut out the IRS completely, flat tax everyone 10% sales tax on everything. That right there would drastically change the country for the better. (No tax lawyers needed, no figuring out taxes at the end of the year, no money taken from your paychecks, etc.....
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Re: Milage Tax
Another issue is that it is not progressive. A progressive income tax makes it so those that are rich, contribute more by percent then those who are poor. If i make 10,000$ a year, I'd only be able to spend just over 9,000 before I ran out of money. That is a huge difference on how much I can buy. But if I make 1,000,000 a year, I can spend just over 900,000. I still can spent a very large amount of money when compared to the costs of living.
The last issue I am going to point out is that the tax needs to be higher than 10%. In Washington state the sales tax is very close to 10%, yet the government still doesn't have the money required to keep the basic infrastructure and education systems working perfectly.
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better solutions
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We pomise not to abuse the traking info
*smirk*
Now I know why they smirk so much, it's hard to keep a strait face when you are lying so blatantly to people.
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It's just for attention...
although...
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/obama-100-days
if cell phone tower pings are considered warrant free one has to wonder.
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Hiding
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Thanks but...
56401-3850 is a zip in his district for those that want to email.
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Thanks but...
http://wwwc.house.gov/oberstar/zipauth.htm
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Odometer -> Excise Tax -> tax per mile.
Fair tax per mile, effects electric/hydrogen/gas/etc. vehicles doesn't require any new privacy invading technology.
Makes sense, therefore it'll never get implemented. Oh well.
Just a few quick thoughts.
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Relevant links:
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?type=C&cid=N00001806&newMem=N& ;cycle=2008
http://www.aecom.com/MarketsAndServices/38/71/index.html
http://www.hntb.com/GetFedera lService.do?co=1&companyid=5&serviceid=73&p=Y
Draw your own conclusions. :)
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Couple that with them listening to everything all the time and it would be just like having your own NSA agent / spy sitting along for the ride taking notes on all your actions.. Of course what you pay in TAXES for this SERVICE would more than make up for implementing and maintaining it..
But we need to do it for your safety and for the kids and for the environment.. Note they want to take your guns to help Mexico with their drug problem... Yeah... Taking away guns from US citizen.. er subjects will somehow help the Mexican police handle Mexican Drug Lords...
What is it they say about absolute power...
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Odometer, anyone?
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Re: Odometer, anyone?
The whole idea is stupid. Taxes should not be based on behavior, but only on physical goods, property, or transactions. Can anyone give an example of another tax that is based solely on behavior without a good attached to it? I can't think of any.
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Re: Re: Odometer, anyone?
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Re: Re: Re: Odometer, anyone?
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Then we'll see how wonderful he thinks this idea is.
The "use tax" crap is just a way for the snoopy folks to backdoor in tracking methods. The are looking across the pond to UK's cameras (and ignoring the utter uselessness of them) and are green with envy, and want something better to track people with.
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I just love how the income tax takes part of what I earn, and the sales tax takes the rest. For most people the luxury tax doesn't even come into play, assuming they need to eat to stay alive.
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Why GPS?
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Re: Why GPS?
Creating some sort of "government certified" device that acts like an odometer and gets looked annually when you register your car seems like a more plausible idea. That way, you truly are only being charged for the miles you have driven.
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Tax based on GPS mileage
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They should be easy to track. They aren't going anywhere.
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Are we sure it isn't just about the money?
Flips tinfoil hat to dull side out during this rainy weather.... It works better that way, or so I'm told.
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So Screwed Up
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