More Swedish ISPs Decide To Keep No Logs To Protect Users

from the consumer-demand... dept

Wed, Apr 29th 2009 3:18pm — Mike Masnick

We recently noted that a Swedish ISP was advertising the fact that it doesn't keep log files of its users, following the newly implemented Swedish law, IPRED, that requires ISPs to hand over log files if users are accused of copyright infringement online. It appears that the attention generated by that one ISP has now lead multiple Swedish ISPs to also promise to delete all user data, so that there would be nothing to turn over. As a representative from Tele2 noted: "It's a strong wish from our customers, so we decided not to store information on customers' IP numbers anymore." Between this and the new interest in encryption and VPN software in Sweden, you have to wonder why the entertainment industry was so excited about the IPRED law passing in the first place.

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Filed Under: isps, log files, privacy, sweden
Companies: tele2

12 Comments

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elduderino, 29 Apr 2009 @ 3:22pm

viva le ipredator!
let me pay for this already plz!!!!!!

kkthx
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RD, 29 Apr 2009 @ 3:39pm

Great! Until..
Yes thats wonderful, and we users like to see them stand up to the *IAA's of the world, but it will be all for naught.

The FIRST thing that will happen next is, the industry will turn to their bought-and-paid-for legislators, judges and lawmakers and have that little loophole closed. Watch, it will happen very soon.
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Slackr, 29 Apr 2009 @ 4:21pm

That might happen but it doesn't stop the lesson from being learnt - the users will adapt and find ways around whatever limits they try to put in place. Technology will stay ahead of laws and legislation.

It seems regardless of how many times it is pointed out that these tactics are hollow short-term on-paper victories, these organisations just don't get it.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Apr 2009 @ 7:43pm

Re:
"It seems regardless of how many times it is pointed out that these tactics are hollow short-term on-paper victories, these organisations just don't get it."

Nowadays, those are the only types of victories that matter anymore. As long as the news reporters say you're accomplishing your goal, it's as good as done.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2009 @ 12:14am

dont expect anything like that in the USA!

The ISP(s) are in the pockets of the Government and visa-Versa in this country of Execs and shareholders first and Employees and customers last!
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Sherlock Jones, 30 Apr 2009 @ 12:48am

Here is the path
Next, the government will enact legislation to force them to keep logs. Then the ISPs will change their logs so they don't keep user information. Then the govt enacts legislation to force them to keep detailed records. Then they allow anonymous proxies, and the govt. enacts legislation to ban the use of anonymous proxies. Next the govt enacts legislation for you the citizen to keep logs of your online activities, in order to comply with their other new legislation that you identify yourself as a non terrorist and child molestor.
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Tor, 30 Apr 2009 @ 12:52am

Maybe not true
Tele2 later said in another interview that in fact they do save IP address logs for two weeks in order to be able to, as they say, counter things like viruses spam. In that interview they claimed that this is what they have been saying from the beginning.

Personally I would trust Bahnhof much more than Tele2 for these reasons:
1) The CEO of Bahnhof is a friend to Oscar Swartz who started the business, and Swartz is now one of the leading bloggers who defend privacy and fight for copyright reform.
2) Bahnhof was in 2005 subjected to some seemingly unlawful and very unorthodox actions where it seems the Police has been manipulated by the content industry. For example there are indications that the content industry paid infiltrators considerable sums of money to insert illegal material into Bahnhof servers prior to a raid (the raid was approved by Tomas Norström who was also the judge in the Pirate Bay trial). Having had first hand experience of violations like this probably make Bahnhof take greater care to protect their customers.

Of course both ISPs are motivated by economic aspects - giving the customers the privacy they want - but at least one of them have a good understanding of what the content industries represent.

The CEO of Bahnhof recently wrote the following in a comment on Oscar Swartz's blog:

Yes, I think it was 2001 or possibly 2002 (don't remember exactly) but actually I've been in contact with Antipiratbyrån [the Swedish anti-piracy agency] before!

They asked us if we could help them spread and plant trojans on our customers' computers (even externally). It were supposed to be some form of "measurement" that they wanted to make... Everything was said to be "top secret". Of course we declined and I don't know what other ISP approved to that thing.
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Tor, 30 Apr 2009 @ 2:08am

Lawyer reported to Bar Association
Lawyer Peter Danowsky who commented on the ISP's choice to not store logs have now been reported to the The Swedish Bar Association which organizes all laywers in Sweden for having violated their Code of Conduct. According to the code of conduct a lawyer may not "scandalize or make insulting statements about an opponent in a legal procedure".

http://blogg.aftonbladet.se/21909/perma/1198111 (in Swedish)

Peter Danowsky is also the lawyer who represented IFPI in the Pirate Bay court case.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2009 @ 6:03am

I work on a system - not an isp, there's tons of logs we keep. I'm sure they're not keeping a log that would implicate their user but wouldn't they keep some sort of log to monitor service, uptime, ect? Wouldn't logs such as these be necessary for troubleshooting? I also wonder if they opt not to monitor infected computers and their attempts to spread across their network?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2009 @ 6:04am

Re: Here is the path
"Next the govt enacts legislation for you the citizen to keep logs of your online activitiesNext the govt enacts legislation for you the citizen to keep logs of your online activities"

I do not have enough storage for all those logs, so can I just email them to my representative ?
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Tor, 30 Apr 2009 @ 9:12am

Logs
@Anonymous Coward #9

It's of course not general logs we are talking about, but rather logs detailing what person were assigned what IP address during what time span. Service and uptime logs are something completely different.
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Derek Kerton, 30 Apr 2009 @ 2:17pm

Unintended Consequences
Good for them. Consumers that are aware get treated well by vendors. The Swedes are much more aware of these issues thanks to the RIAA attacks on The Pirate Bay.

But as for unintended consequences, say bye bye to police ability to use IP addresses and logs to track down and convict people who commit actual crimes online. This was feasible when done with warrants and legitimate investigations. Because of the RIAA and their ilk, ISPs need to throw out their data to satisfy their customers, and now the real terrorists and criminals will also benefit.

Thanks RIAA.
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