Supreme Court Tells Gov't It Can't Use ID Fraud Laws Against Illegal Immigrants
from the stretching-the-law dept
Apparently, the Federal Gov't has been using an ID fraud law that was passed a few years ago not to go after just those copying the identity of others for the sake of fraud, but illegal immigrants using fake IDs. The two scenarios are entirely different, but the Feds were quick to use the law against the illegal immigrants, as it was an easier tool to use than to go through the standard process of dealing with illegal immigrants. Now, no matter what you think of illegal immigrants and how they should be dealt with, we should all be concerned when the government is stretching the intention of a law beyond its clearly stated purpose... and the Supreme Court seems to agree. It's now told the government that it clearly went beyond the boundaries of the law in using it against immigrants. The court points out that the law is pretty clear that the person charged under the law must knowingly take the identity of someone else, but totally made up IDs don't appear covered by the law at all, because the law isn't intended for fake IDs... it's intended to deal with those defrauding others by taking their identity.![Hide This Hide this](https://ii.techdirt.com/s/t/i/topclose.png)
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Filed Under: id fraud, immigration, supreme court
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You get pulled over for speeding 10 over the limit, you expect a speeding ticket. The officer can give you whatever vioation he feels neccessary, including reckless driving, careless driving, speeding, failure to control speed. So much bs.
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This won't be the same for minors making fake ID's, and they're legally here!
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So apparently the Supreme Court is communist? I'm sure Justices Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas would be shocked to hear that.
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What's funny is who you left out.
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ID Fraud and illegals
The person who's information is being used by the illegals is being subjected to the consequences; destroyed credit, bad debts, harrassment by collections, etc etc so it's only LOGICAL that the person who is helping cause the problem be nailed for it. Under the new Supreme Court ruling, the Illegal immigrant just has to say "OH I didn't know there was a real 'John Smith' ... Golly gee I'm sorry" and they get to skate. It will be really hard for prosecutors to PROVE to the Court the person knew a real person existed.... However whether they knew it or not, that person who had their ID stolen/copied is now screwed, and has a lot of damage they have to try and fix... the criminal should pay.
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Re: ID Fraud and illegals
Oh no, they might have to do work! The horror.
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Re: ID Fraud and illegals
Also the "illegal" would have to have a social security number, date of birth and name of the individual, to steal an identity.
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I Fear The Government
My government does not fear me, I have lost my liberty.
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Um this only applys to made up IDs
All the court said is that the law is ment to deal with identiy theft, not fake IDs. Since the person has a fake ID you need to charge them with the correct crime.
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WTF?
Having and using a fake ID for fraud isn't ID fraud? I guess every single person now that buys fraudulent documents that doesn't know for sure that it is linked to real information won't be charged.
Every illegal that gets fraudulent documents does it for financial gain. They don't get them to put their kids in school. The schools are not allowed to ask. They get it to take jobs and cheat the system. Getting a job is financial gain. That explanation Breyer wrote is worthless.
They need an emergency session to put in a new law or edit the current law to remedy this situation.
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Re: WTF?
using an ID fraud law that was passed a few years ago not to go after just those copying the identity of others for the sake of fraud
Do you see that glaring "copying the identity of others" part? That is a really big part of the issue, not your view of illegal immigrants.
Every illegal that gets fraudulent documents does it for financial gain. They don't get them to put their kids in school.
They get it to take jobs and cheat the system
Please keep the trolling to a minimum.
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The hysterical thing about this? You get people screaming "God forbid they charge an ILLEGAL w/a crime", and "They're just going after the ILLEGALS", meanwhile, they ignore the ILLEGAL actions of law enforcement.
They aren't logical, and they aren't interested in the law, they're just flatout xenophobic. Go fuck your sisters, you twats.
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They do not go and photoshop up their own documents with made up numbers. They buy essentially seed information and paperwork. That or they buy someones SSN #. With that they go and get other legit documentation from government offices that fail to ever verify information because they are not allowed to.
This past weekend in the hospital a family from Mexico was discussing how they had already sold their new born childs SSN to 2 people.
It's also not as if these people are using their own name and information. They use a different name. Do you really think that none of this ends up linking to actual citizens who followed the law coming here or were born here and might happen to live in the apartment complex of someone who is using a common name for their "completely fake" information?
As far as the government acting illegally.. No. It wouldn't bother me just as much that they are prosecuting people who ARE committing fraud and various other crimes and should not even be here in the first place. The ruling is splitting hairs. These people SHOULD be prosecuted. They are not going after innocent people.
The laws wording should have been changed or they need to create another law to deal with it.
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So the govt. isn't responsible for correctly applying the law, so long as the people they are going after are in any way illegal?
Fine, charge them w/murder and extradite them, then. What difference does it make what you charge them with, right?
I'm sorry, but that is a completely useless statement. If the govt. isn't going to bother charging these people CORRECTLY, then they shouldn't charge them at all.
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Because you obviously don't grasp its meaning.
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"It wouldn't bother me just as much that they are prosecuting people who ARE committing fraud and various other crimes and should not even be here in the first place"
Has all kinds of syntax/grammar errors and I had to reread it a couple times before hazarding a guess as to its meaning, so maybe we both need to be more clear.
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This is a giant problem. And your views on illegal aliens are irrelevant. The government has moved beyond the law in an attempt to punish illegal aliens.
If the objection to illegal immigrants is in fact that they are illegal (and not just racism), then it should bother you just as much when the government acts illegally.
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All the supreme court did was read the law that said "knowingly transfers, possesses or uses, without lawful authority, a means of identification of another person." and concluded that knowingly applies to all conditions there. The DOJ was arguing that knowingly only applies to "transfers".
That is all, they just read it and said yeah you guys don't know how to read English but this is what it means.
They didn't make up some new law, or massively change an existing one. They just clarified what this specific one meant because apparently some people don't know how to read.
If you don't like the law, write a letter to your congressman. They are the ones who wrote it that way.
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If you don't want illegals here, enforce the law we have and deport them. To hard to deport them? Change the law. If you think illegals should stay here, then change the law. Stop using backdoor methods to push your agenda. Either enforce the law or get rid of it. Courts should only be enforcing the laws, not stretching the meanings to push someone's agenda.
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Obviously it would steal an identity, but the person buying it wouldn't know they were buying a stolen identity, would that fit the crime? According to this ruling, it wouldn't.
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God this whole debate is stupid.
DA's were doing something illegal by incorrectly prosecuting w/laws that are unapplicable to the charged individuals.
Illegal aliens are doing something illegal by not following our guidelines on how to enter/exit/work in this country.
So you've got one set of people acting illegally to stop another group from acting illegally? Now talk to me some more about our moral authority.
Idiots.
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Way to shift the blame off the people who want/buy/use the stolen ID. Who is the person who does the actual damage to the people that have had their identities stolen? The person using it. Every time they use the identity they are committing identity theft.
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You can either go after all the individual users and get nowhere, or take out the source and leave the users w/no way to get the illicit material.
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As long as there is a demand for it.. People will supply it.
You have to go after everyone to stop it or at least try and minimize it. The people supplying the IDs. The people buying and using the IDs. The businesses who gladly use the people working with the fake IDs.
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Obviously it would steal an identity, but the person buying it wouldn't know they were buying a stolen identity, would that fit the crime? According to this ruling, it wouldn't.
Nor should it. A person should not be convicted of a crime if he does not have the requisite criminal intent. That is Criminal Law 101. If the illegal alien does not know that he's taking someone else's identity and using it for ill, then he should not be criminalized for that crime.
There are more suitable charges to bring against such people than identity theft.
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SS vs ID
E-Verify is a system that tracks the SS# of workers in the US determining their eligibility, but is currently voluntary. I say make if mandatory, it should help clarify.
http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/programs/gc_1185221678150.shtm
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
***** what are you going to do about them! huh?
that's right nothing! you can't hahaha
so leave your comments to your self!
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Illegal court rulings
What part of criminal activity ceases to be criminal? When the the communist government of the USA says it is. Is anyone paying attention? Illegal actions must have consequences. ID laws are there to protect citizens. The "supreme court is nothing. It has proven time and again it is worthless. When will we have a government for the citizens of the USA? Vote them all out. Make them responsible for their actions. hang them all for treason.
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you are all wrong
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This is a non-issue...
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Identity theft, business' are ok with it
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