Campgrounds In Maine Can't Compete Against Free... So Want It Outlawed
from the ain't-that-great dept
Chris was the first of a few of you to send in the news of a proposed law in Maine that would outlaw the ability of any company to let RVs park overnight for free. The battle basically pits campgrounds, which charge fees, against Wal-Mart, which has always allowed RVs to park in their parking lots for free, recognizing that many who stay overnight in their parking lots will likely pick up supplies at Wal-Mart as well. There doesn't seem to be any actual rationale for the "no free overnight parking" law, other than that the campgrounds are upset that they're losing business. The whole thing seems rather silly, though. A Wal-Mart parking lot is hardly a scenic location. Are these campgrounds offering so little that they can't compete against a giant empty concrete parking lot? Of course, if this law does pass, the end result is pretty predictable. Rather than driving more RVs to campsites, RV owners may just start avoiding Maine altogether.
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Or Walmart can charge a spite fee
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pulled into center city parking lots that were willing to charge reasonable overnight fees, allowing us to spend a night on the town in many a major city (no Walmarts in downtown Chicago).
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I'm from Michigan, and in the old days, like back in the 60s and 70s, all state campsites were free. Of course they had no amenities, just pit toilets and hand-pumps for water. But you really shouldn't need anything else for camping. If you need electricity on your camping trip, stay in a fricken motel!
Ok, I'm done ranting.
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Needless to say, we didn't have GPS and digital cameras back in the 70s. Flashlights... er... I seem to remember those. But back then they were large sticks wrapped with oil-soaked rags which we'd light on fire by rubbing sticks together. You're probably to young to know this, but electricity was not invented until June of 1986.
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Oh my god. Thanks Ima. I needed that laugh today. It's been a rough morning and it's barely 3 hours old (work wise anyway).
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Which comes with the free contental breakfast and shower?
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Well that's embarrassing
Nice tie-in to the "compete with free" concept, by the way. I wouldn't call this a tech article, but it's interesting to see that the same basic concepts apply to non-tech industries.
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Level the playing field, I am sure they can compete. Of course, maybe they will just pave over their park to fit in more campers.
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Campgrounds provide a value add experience and charge for it. Consumers are apparently deciding the value add isn't worth the price. Outlawing the cheaper and less scenic competitor is a bizarre response to a changing market.
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Was this an idea inspired by fermented beverages?
Next, burning oil drums will have to be licensed to the homeless so they can keep warm by having a fire.
The whole concept it isn't that bad of an idea: I see a department of 50 put on Maine's Payroll to protect this "authentic rustic backwoods lifestyle"! Raise sales and property taxes 0.1% to finance it. Wow, the possibilities for spending taxpayer dollars are endless!
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Who wants to camp in a parking lot
Joseph Durnal
Joe's Blog
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I could see a "Parking with validation" development, where you're 'charged' a nominal fee to park, but the fee is waived with any purchase at Wally-World. Similar to the spite fee mentioned above, but in reality still free.
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I really don't know where some people seem to the the idea that laws somehow can't be enforced on "private property".
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Offer Service
Given the choice between paying $40 and staying in, what is essentially a parking lot anyways, or for free in a WalMart lot, I'll take the lot (with the money saved go see a movie, or put it towards a sig-flags pass).
Compete on service, not legislative power.
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Walmart is not going to provide free fresh water. You can get it but you have to pay for it. Walmart will not, and cannot, provide waste disposal, too many health codes. Walmart will not provide an outlet to plug into. Walmart cannot provide privacy or scenic walks. I'd bet I'm missing a few things, I don't go camping in an RV.
If the RV drivers want to deal with these sever limitations instead of paying for parking then something seems insanely wrong with the pay option.
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RVs at Walmart
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> several forums -- prospective tourists will
> know to stay away in no time.
Well, then we obviously need to outlaw/ban RV communication sites on the internet as well.
Simple solution.
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Free Parking for RVs
I agree with the author who says if the law passes, RVs may avoid Maine altogether...it could happen.
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An Interesting Contrst In Attitudes
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$1 fee for parking + $1 coupon!
The real biggie is that this is how to value services. If the free option doesn't give you water, sewage dump, or electricity, and no one is going to the paid version that does, then the paid version is asking way too much for these services.
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lol.
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You are wrong on this one.
The issue, which has been fought in several states before with varying results, is not that Walmart is allowing RVers to park in their lot overnight. It is that they promote their program as "camping," and they do so without conforming to the numerous regulations that the campgrounds are required by law to conform to. The number one example is access to waste facilities. Campgrounds are required to be able to facilitate a certain amount of waste based on the number of sites they offer, which is a major overhead cost, especially for seasonal campgrounds that need to winterize their entire water network. If Walmart were made to abide by the same legislation as a campground, they would conceivably need to offer facilities proportional to the number of parking spots they have available, and they would quickly see that it probably wasn't economically feasible for them to continue promoting "camping" in their lots.
Because they are somehow exempt from the rules that campgrounds need to follow, they are being given an unfair market advantage, which they can exploit by offering as a free service because they have essentially no additional regulatory overhead. I figure someone who constantly preaches the power of markets to balance themselves can see how this sets up an environment that the campground owners are justifiably opposed to.
All that said, it is unfortunate that the response from campers and most press coverage ultimately views the campground owners negatively on this issue. They get painted as money-grubbing grinches who are trying to avoid "competing" with free, rather than (more often than not) small businesses trying to make sure the "Big Guys" have to play by the same rules.
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*Campers would use the word "camp" instead of "stay" since they are in that frame of mind.
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Cause i know every year me wife and i sit down and plan a trip around the country in an RV by hitting just wal-marts cause all the hot big concrete parking lots are great stress reducers and much much prettier than say WOODS and stuff, or natural beauty... and cheaper to boot...
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They have no expectations of electricity, waste disposal, or any other campground amenities, because it isn't one.
If they wanted to camp, they would go to a camping ground that does provide those amenities.
Maybe the campgrounds are losing money from the people that are just passing through that don't want to pay for something they don't need.
You can't force people to pay money to park in a public parking lot (that doesn't charge of course).
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No, I still think this falls under "if you can't compete with a concrete parking lot then you're doing something wrong." Hell, if you can't compete with a concrete parking lot you can't compete with the side of the road or someone's driveway or one of those rest stops that I see truckers sleeping in every time I drive down the highway.
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Are you serious? Your anecdotal assertion is directly contrary to my gut reaction of complete disbelief, therefore we are at an impasse. I would really like to see some citation that there is a large, or even significant, number of people vacationing in parking lots anywhere. Feel free to include homeless people living in RVs in your argument.
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The same thing would happen if the RV were on the road for 4 days before arriving. So, if that's a problem then the problem really isn't Walmart, it's the campground's business model.
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If what you are saying is true, than really what people should be demanding is that Walmart not use the word "camping" when promoting their program.
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I'm not sure about your claim that there are fewer RVs on the road; I'd be interested to see some sources. I am aware that RV sales have taken quite a hit over the past couple years, even before the major downturn last fall, but overall campground occupancy rates haven't been much affected (see RV Business Indicators1-20-09). People are still camping, although they tend to take shorter trips closer to home, etc. Actually, MORE people are turning to camping because it is cheaper than many other vacation options.
I also see the difference between someone spending a few hours late at night parked at a Wally-world and someone setting up their awning and firing up the grill. Most people would feel that the latter is ridiculous. And it is unlikely that anyone is taking their family vacation in a parking lot.
The problem is simply that campgrounds are being undercut on a large scale by a company that has the reach to promote something even without having "official promotional material". Google "RV Walmart" and you will see the number of other sources promoting the practice of hopping from Walmart to Walmart for "free camping" without Big W Corporate having to even bother. The response is to try and hamper the practice. It might not be the right response. I am merely providing the counter-argument, and maintain that this is certainly not a simple "can't compete with free" situation.
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Seriously?
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Transient behavior
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Free?
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Campgrounds can compete
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The thing I questioned while reading this, what about the RVs that park at rest areas on the highways cause we used to stay there also and are they going to do the same thing with truckers too because they use Wal-mart parking lots too?
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But this just proves Mike's point
And if the issue is with having to comply with regulations while others do not, well, that is a case for persuading government NOT to create long lists of restrictive regulations.
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Why not...
What kind of country is this becoming?
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WalMart Lawsuit & free overnight parking
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Journalism at its best - not
- Was that BEFORE Wallmart opened a store nearby ?
I doubt it.
"The campground's owner, Allen York, said he often sees 25 to 30 RVs parked at the Wal-Mart."
- Has this number increased proportionally in the past few years?
Probably not.
- Reading this article, one gets the impresion that they think the number of RVs is constant and are going elsewhere. Most likely the number of people driving RVs has taken a nose dive. But the author seems to skip over that minor detail.
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As a long time RVer, I can tell you that some campgrounds are so badly maintained that a Wal-Mart parking lot is a step up.
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Free overnight parking for RVs at WalMarts
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Free overnight parking for RVs at WalMarts
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Wal-Mart Lawsuit
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Maine.....
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Maine no free camping
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Ban
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