Are Microsoft's Limitations On Netbooks Running XP Antitrust Violations?
from the not-really... dept
Michael Scott points us to someone asking how come the limitations that Microsoft puts on computer vendors who are selling netbooks with XP installed don't constitute an antitrust violation. I'm sure others may differ, but I can't quite see where the antitrust violation would be here. First, there are alternatives. Linux-based netbooks are still decently popular, so if Microsoft's limits were a real problem, then there are other ways to go. Second, I would imagine that someone could buy XP through third parties and install it on any machine they want. It's just that if they want to get a wholesale deal directly from Microsoft, the company puts certain limitations on it. So I don't see it as an antitrust issue.That said... I have to admit that I don't understand why Microsoft puts these limitations on netbooks that run XP. My guess is that it's because they really, really, really want to move people off of XP and onto Vista (or Windows 7 eventually), and they're afraid that if they let more powerful netbooks run XP, that they'll start to become full laptop replacements -- and Microsoft's grand strategy of moving customers to the latest and greatest will stall out. However, that seems hard to support. It makes little sense to try to limit customers -- especially those who really want to buy your product. If Microsoft XP makes a computer more valuable to someone, why limit that choice?
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
The problem is that you have to be on Vista right now to buy SA to up to Win7. So they are making it VERY difficult for anyone that wants to use XP.
The only manuf. so far that has had the balls to tell MS to go eff itself has been HP.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
Seems real dumb way of running a business- forced upgrades (via market constraints) to bloatware operating systems. I love the idea that it takes 35 seconds to launch Outlook every morning, and 5-7 minutes just to boot up.
Ubuntu and OSX keeps looking better.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
I believe it can just as long as the original undamaged OEM sticker is transferred along with it, and the originating PC no longer has the Windows install on it (duh). Pain in the ass, ain't it?
Now here's a stupid question, if this is an antitrust violation how is the iPhone store not? You can't get an iPhone app any other way and the availability is completely up to Apples whim.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
I suppose Chrono, when you get a mac and start coding using the *FREE!* XCode and *FREE!* iPhone SDKs, (In comparison to the not so-free Crappy, err, Visual Studio) You can start whining.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
The Visual Studio kit has a price but you can still program in .Net and compile it for free. The compiler comes with the free .Net install.
And it's two N's in Chronno.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
Sure! It's called C! More Precisely, Objective C.
The compiler comes with the free .Net install.
Yep, but how much is the IDE?
And it's two N's in Chronno.
And you can call me Anonymous Berthaaa, which has three A at the end, also when you speak my name aloud, accentuate the second syllable, and you've got it right!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
Check out "Zend" and "Notepad2". Google is your friend.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
The COA is a little charred but still readable. Is this okay?
How did Steve Jobs put it? "It's like giving a glass of ice water to somebody in hell"? Yes, I am pretty sure that's it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
a) Market is all Personal computers, then yes it is clear violation of anti trust laws as MS dominate the market
b) Market is netbooks only, then no, MS don't dominate so antitrust would not come into play
Now if you picked a) the next problem is, what competition are MS hurting by their actions...err themselves by pritting much locking themselves out of the low to mid price range netbooks and leaving it to everyone else
Now they are hardly likely to make a complaint against themselves are they?
"Now here's a stupid question, if this is an antitrust violation how is the iPhone store not? You can't get an iPhone app any other way and the availability is completely up to Apples whim."
Because antitrust laws/regs applys to company dominating a market, Iphone does not dominate the mobile phone market, it's even questionable if it dominates the "multimedia smartphone" sub-category due to the blackberry
ps: Mike, for anti trust laws to come into effect it just requires for a particular player to "dominate", not for there to be a lack of alternatives
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
The way we've always been taught as Microsoft partners is basically if the motherboard fails and you are reusing the case, then yes, you may reuse the OEM license. You are not allowed to remove it from the place it is affixed to. Basically if you don't change the case, you're fine.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
With XP, they only make sales to new customers. With Vista, they figured that they'd sell to both new and existing users, who would have to upgrade to maintain compatibility with new software.
I love the idea that it takes 35 seconds to launch Outlook every morning, and 5-7 minutes just to boot up.
I cringe every time I go over someone else's house and their system needs to rebooted because I know I'll be waiting a good 3-7 minutes. One person has Window Washer set to run at shutdown and that takes at least 2-3 minutes. I recently brought home a Compaq system that someone had put out for trash pickup. It boots up to the logon screen (which is as far as I've gotten so far), but the HD chatters for at least 10 minutes!
My trusty Win98SE system boots in less than a minute.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: If M$ cant make a good OS, they should just quit.
BTW for that Compaq: do a Repair using any XP install/recovery cd.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Actually it's the opposite...
Unfortunately it was recently stolen, so I decided to take a look at Mini 10 which Dell wants to replace the Mini 9. As I'm researching it, I find that there is no door for upgrading in this model and in fact the RAM has been soldered onto the board so it can't be upgraded beyond 1G.
I spoke with a Dell salesperson asking why they did this, they said they had to because Microsoft had informed them they were in violation of their liscensing agreement by having the netbooks upgradable. I mentioned that I wasn't looking to by Windows, I wanted the Ubuntu version with 2G RAM and she said there was nothing they could do for me.
The fact that microsoft can dictate the specs I can buy for a machine that's being sold with Linux pre-installed to me sounds like an abuse of monopoly power... but I'm am not a lawyer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Shoving MS right down your throat
How's that for 'monopoly'?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
If HP refuses to sell a laptop without Vista, then I know what I would do in your situation: look for another company to buy from. There are plenty of quality laptops out there. No reason to buy from a company who does not build a product to suit your needs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
As for a Microsoftless HP notebook, Lenovo makes one for sure (search P# 76641MU wherever you like to buy from).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
Tired of Vista, I called HP last week to ask if I could buy a license of XP. They said it was only available if I was a corporate customer. So off to Google I went. Several Google searches later indicated it's only available through eBay, which seems a little dodgy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
Also regarding why it's difficult to get laptops without Vista on it. It's related to do with how the licensing agreements for large OEM's works. Microsoft gives them licenses to Vista for a very cheap price, however in exchange they can not sell computers without an operating system.
The exception to this is Servers. There are some large clients that do not deal directly with Microsoft who with special things can be exempt from this rule, but there aren't many. The supplier we dealt with had two of those clients.
Selling the laptops with Linux I imagine that some suppliers are getting by the rule by installing linux on it, rather then Microsoft, as you'll see that they are being sold with an operating system just not a Microsoft operating system.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
My understanding is that media is no longer being sold for XP, so you're only option is...dum dum duuuuuuum...file sharing sites.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Shoving MS right down your throat
KS011UT#ABA
KR978UT#ABA
KS017UT#ABA
There are plenty more. All come w/Vista preloaded and a free XP Downgrade kit. The licenses are backwards compatible, of course.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Job security, maybe?
Because then someone has to explain to Ballmer why people want to use a two-generation old operating system when Microsoft spent 8 years and several hundred million dollars making something "better."
I don't think "because XP works really well, and we haven't added enough value to make people switch" is an acceptable answer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
this actually would run up antitrust I suspect
With that said, I hope a lot of companies tell MS to shove it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
avoid Windows entirely
I highly recommend it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: avoid Windows entirely
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Windows XP
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Windows XP
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
More Like "Antistupidity Violations"
This whole netbook thing has got Microsoft spooked, and it’s desperately scrambling for ways to shore up its crumbling profit margins. Trouble is, the more of these sorts of tactics it resorts to, the more attractive the Linux option becomes.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Limitations on XP
I don't use the XP, though I may let some of my older friends (who are violently opposed to learning about OSes) use XP, so long as they use Firefox and limit the sites they visit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]