As Expected, Judge Dismisses Warrantless Wiretapping Lawsuits Against Telcos
from the it's-the-law... dept
This isn't a huge surprise, but a judge has tossed out the ACLU and the EFF's various lawsuits against telcos for enabling warrantless wiretapping for the government. The reason it isn't a huge surprise is that the gov't last year, in a well publicized move, granted the telcos immunity from prosecution, and the judge basically pointed that out in dismissing the case. Instead, the judge said that if these groups have a complaint, it's with the gov't for granting immunity (not to worry, there are lawsuits against the gov't as well). Not surprisingly, the EFF and ACLU are appealing. Still, it does seem like these lawsuits are a longshot, even if it's disappointing. It seems ridiculous that the gov't can grant widespread immunity to a company for potentially breaking the law -- but, again, it seems that's an issue to take up with the government -- and once that's solved, go back and deal with the companies specifically. The judge's job is to interpret the law, and in this case, the law says that the telcos are immune. Now, if you believe (as I do) that such a law is ridiculous and should be seen as unconstitutional, than the issue is to take it up with the government. So, the judge's ruling makes sense, even if it's disappointing to see telcos potentially get off the hook for violating customer privacy rights.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: telco immunity, telcos, warrantless wiretapping
Companies: aclu, at&t, eff, verizon
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How Does the Law Become Unconstitutional?
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Re: How Does the Law Become Unconstitutional?
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Re: How Does the Law Become Unconstitutional?
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Key words here. The judge pretty told them to stop wasting time. Appealing it would probably be just more wasting time. They already have a case working somewhere else that has at least a 1% chance of floating.
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Except, when Congress granted immunity, polling from the time suggests that the People were unhappy with immunity.
Additionally, ChurchHatesTucker mentioned that effectively it was a pardon, which it seems to be.
There's so much wrong with this, and why we went to war. Plus as we learn about how idiotic the people at the CIA even pursue the timeless art of bookkeeping (Can't even keep records of meetings) just really makes me question a whole lot of liberties that we gave up over the last 8 years.
Hell, Cheney even said last week that there was no connection to Iraq and 9-11. Makes you wonder if that pipeline got built!
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That's not the away it works if there's a question of constitutionality involved. For example, if some corrupt political party were to manage to take control of the gov't and pass a law authorizing the telcos to own slaves, then there would be a legitimate basis for the slaves to to file a lawsuit against the telcos claiming that slavery is illegal despite any law passed by congress. It would be absurd for some judge to then dismiss their lawsuit against the telcos and tell them to take it up with the gov't instead if they don't like it.
Now in this case, the gov't has passed a law that has blessed the telcos violating people's rights against warrantless searches. People have sued and the judge has dismissed their suit and told them to take it up with the gov't instead if they don't like it. See the problem?
One purpose of the constitution is to protect the people from having their rights taken away from them by the gov't in the first place. But this judge has basically said that he is going to follow the law even if it is unconstitutional and toss those protections aside. That is absurd and I am amazed that anyone would agree with this judge.
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If I understand it correctly, your analogy is on the right track, but instead of the corrupt politico *authorizing* a telco to own slaves, the corrupt politico was *ordering* the telco to own slaves.
Correct me if I have it wrong, but in the case at hand, the telcos placed the taps because the govt. ordered them to do so -- not that the govt said "Hey telco, it's ok for you to tap someone if you feel like it, but you don't have to if you don't really want to..."
I'm not sure the telco's had full freedom of choice in the matter. If they declined, the govt. would bring whatever pressure to bear to make them comply (regulatory, FCC licensing, whatever). I'm not saying it excuses the behavior, but it looks to me like the telco's felt damned if they did and damned if they didn't and took the "free-pass" the govt. offered.
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OK, you're wrong. Certain gov't agents requested that the telcos conspire with them to violate the law and they happily went along with it. Or some of them did. Some refused.
I'm not sure the telco's had full freedom of choice in the matter.
Sure they did, and some of them chose to violate the law while others chose not to.
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Pardon me
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Re: Pardon me
I never thought of it that way, but one could call an amnesty a form of an Ex post facto law.
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So what if it is? It's not unconstitutional until the judge says so and this one just refused to do so.
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Now the best argument for this would be that eather something the telco's did was explisit in the constitution thus congress would have to pass an amendment for the retroactive immunity.
My best guess would be that "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" counts for phone call wire taps too.
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Right Balance
In my view this is a good balance between privacy and security. You still have all the same constituion proctections you always had. If the ACLU is allowed to prosecute and turn this into a big deal then you will have no cooperation in the future at all. This is not a good long turn solution.
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Re: Right Balance
Not really. There is no warrant required. It's really a grand fishing expedition.
Think Blogolovitch or Spitzer, If someone doesn't like ya, they just wait for you to slip up, make an inebriated phone call, reduce public opinion via the news so your forced to resign or be booted out on the basis of public opinion and *not* the rule of law.
Ends justify the means in their mind.
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Re: Right Balance
Heh, almost anyone can be made into "a security threat".
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Just a reminder...
Basically, the government strong armed the telecos into playing ball after 911 and now the government is trying to ensure that the telecos are protected and probably trying to ensure that the telecos don't do the natural thing and start pointing the blame back at the government along with details of their far-reaching abuse including monitoring all traffic thru their "hubs".
Classic case of CYA.
Only good point is that at least Qwest stood up to this nonsense. The rest fell to the massive pressure exerted on them and tossed our rights and freedoms under the bus.
Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky (take that back, yeah, I'm getting old and cranky), but I'm so tired of being told this is for our safety or for the children - BS. It is a huge power grab that results in us living in an 1984 type society.
This lawsuit should go to the supreme court and hopefully declared unconstitutional - the telecos should be made to pay and the government officials exposed and prosecuted for breaking the law.
Freedom
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Kill the 10th, Then the 2nd and the rest will Follow.
Of course over the years lawyers and judges have "whored" the meaning of the constitution.
Most of it goes back to a farmer wanting to grow wheat for personal use. A ruling that killed the true meaning of the 10th amendment.
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Ahem
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We the People...
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Re: We the People...
Mmm, no, sorry, we're not the government anymore. Corporations are, end of story. Fascism, here we come!
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I think the president could pardon if they were convicted, but I don't think pre-emptive pardons are sound doctrine...
Likewise, the judge throwing out the phone companies seems weird unless he has a rider that it should be re-filed if the pre-emptive excuses are overturned...
Of course our USA legal system makes 0 sense anymore...
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suggestion for better article
This type of information is routinely left out now that the media is almost completely corporate owned.
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