Music Publisher Suddenly Claims 80s Australian Pop Hit Infringed On 1930s Kids Tune
from the i-come-from-a-kookaburra-down-under dept
Mick was the first of a few folks who sent in this story about how an Australian music publishing firm, Larrikin Music, is suddenly accusing the Australian band, Men At Work, of "ripping off" a 1930s popular Austrlian children's song, "Kookaburra" with their hit song "Down Under." Why did it take so long? Well, Larrikin only gained the copyright in 2000, but that's still 9 years of nothing. Apparently, they only noticed the similarities when an Australian quiz show brought it up -- which certainly raises questions about any "harm" done by this (if there was any actual copying). Once again, like similar stories (such as the Coldplay/Satriani/Creaky Boards/Cat Stevens battle), it's difficult to see why this even matters. Even if the songs are similar, it's not as if one makes the other any less valuable. If anything, it's only served to drive more attention to the similar songs. This is nothing more than a music publishing company desperate for cash grasping at straws to demand cash from others who have been more successful.Anyway, for comparison's sake, here's a group of kids singing Kookaburra:
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Filed Under: australia, copyright, copyright infringement, down under, kookaburra, men at work, music
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Yikes
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Re: Yikes
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I said it last time and Ill say it agin, some day someone with far to much computer power will make a song with EVERY combo of notes that somehow makes sence then like it or not everyone will infringe on him espically if he makes the song really well known (but it will be really bad).
can we just point out that other then really blantent copying this is just a bad idea?
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The set of notes is finite, not infinite.
The duration of a piece of music is finite, not infinite.
Assuming we have actual, human, musicians playing instruments, there can only be a finite number of instruments being played in the piece.
Even orchestra's have a finite number of instruments in them.
Therefore by definition in any finite time period with a finite series of notes (the known set of all notes) with a finite number of instruments there is a finite combination of notes that can be made.
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Secondly, the 'finite combination of notes' is nothing of the kind really. There are over 4000 recognized musical scales within the piano range and this does not exhaust the possibilities of notes in between the half steps. The number of audio frequencies within the hearing range is infinite, as well as choices of 'notes', number of possible combinations/scales, and potential musical themes using them -- all infinite.
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"Secondly, the 'finite combination of notes' is nothing of the kind really. There are over 4000 recognized musical scales within the piano range"
Doesn't the fact that you can count the music scales make them finite?
"this does not exhaust the possibilities of notes in between the half steps. "
Are those recognised notes? Would playing slightly off-key make the sequence significantly different, or would it just make the music sound bad? Remember, we're talking about human perception of the similarities.
"The number of audio frequencies within the hearing range is infinite"
But frequencies != notes.
"as well as choices of 'notes', number of possible combinations/scales, and potential musical themes using them -- all infinite."
No they're not.
You seem to be confusing the number of available analog frequencies with the number of available musical notes. Yeah, in theory a note of middle C is 261.626 Hz, and a "note" of 261.726 and one of 261.526 Hz would be different frequencies. But, they're all middle C for the purposes of music, only the latter two would be slightly off key.
There is a finite number of notes, and a finite number of combinations of those notes. Yes, these combinations would likely run into hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) and a track containing them would be both very long and horrible to listen to. But, it's certainly possible to create such a track.
Especially when you consider that for the purposes of litigation (what the original post you replied to was referring to), playing slightly off-key or in a different octave would not be sufficient to avoid similarities between tracks.
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No, not a dickhead, but a joker.
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The only reason I'm conflicted
As for the Aussies, what do you expect from a nation created by people that even the ENGLISH couldn't stand?
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Re: The only reason I'm conflicted
Yeah... Safety Dance is better....:P
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Tough luck
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Re: The only reason I'm conflicted
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Re: Re: The only reason I'm conflicted
And no I haven't been there. I was going to vacation there, but watched a copy of Kangaroo Jack, with that 'Roo and Jerry O'Connell. And frankly, I don't need to be in the same country as a hairy, smelly beast that has no business being in movies. Oh, and the kangaroo wasn't very good either...
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Re: The only reason I'm conflicted
Australia was formed by convicts after the United States stopped letting England dump them there.
Check your history books mate ;o)
But I agree with you. This is a side to Australia of which we're very embarrassed and would rather the whole gum tree / rolf harris / paul hogan stereotype would go away.
Our only problem is we keep voting Queenslanders into parliament.
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Kookaburra? Not how I learned it...
I'm a big fan of Colin Hay and, as a guitarist myself, never made the connection. But honestly, there aren't that many chord progressions out there as people said. Why don't we just copyright the 1st 5th, 4th, 6th of every key? How many songs do you think you are going to "infringe"?
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Flute
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A snip of Kookaburra is definitely there, but it's pretty well incorporated into an entirely different song. A song that was produced well before Larrikin bought the rights?
And by the by, I'm born and raised in the US. My mom taught me the Kookaburra song when I was wee. I think my grandfather, a merchant marine, might've taught it to her.
Gotta say, never heard it in that 80's song until I read this article today. I miss goofy 80's videos. Sigh.
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shaftedartist.com
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Great.
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Kookaburra Song
Kookaburra sitting on the electric wire,
Jumping up and down with his balls on fire...
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Crikey!
As for the suit itself, the consensus seems to be that it will be thrown out of court. The similarity between "Down Under" and "Kookaburra" isn't strong. And let's not forget that they still need to prove it was intentional, not a fluke coincidence.
By the way, a larrikin is someone who is a bit of a clown, a joker, is a bit irreverent, and who mocks authority. Doesn't exactly describe Larrikin Music, does it?
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Re: Crikey!
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Give a crazy person the Bible and he'll soon start to uncover mysterious patterns and number sequences. Give two songs to music industry lawyers and they will eventually find similarities that other people can hardly see. No difference.
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Kookaburra and Mickey Mouse hatched a plot
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Now is it a copyright violation. I'm not so sure. Seeing how short it is then using the phrases like "I Love You" or "Ladies and Gentlemen" in a song, book, script, etc. would also have to be considered copyright infringement of whomever copyrighted it first.
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Honestly, copyright a simple blues riff and you've got everyone from Muddy Waters to Hendrix to Stevie Ray Vaughn to fucking everyone. Copyright the chords E, A and B in that order and there goes most of Rock and Roll's greatest hits.
Copyright a chimpanzee with some silver chains jumping up and down singing about all the groupies he's never ahd and you've single handedly taken out hip hop as well.
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Re: Can't hear any similarities
If I have understood the sheet music correctly the Kookaburra notes are (G is G4): G G G G A A A G E G E.
The Down Under flute riff notes are almost an octave higher (F# is F5#): F# F# F# F# G G G F# D F# D.
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greed from larikin music
and why did it take so long for larrikin music to work out that there was a similarity .
i knew of the similarity when the song came outeven a deaf man could hear that one.
and i do belive that larrikin knew as well and were buying time to then go for damages
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GREED !
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Now Greg Ham is dead - Shame Larrikin
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