US Attorneys Fishing For Tons Of Info On Anonymous Commenters

Entertainment Industry Pushes To Make Mininova Useless

from the it's-a-search-engine dept

Thu, Jun 11th 2009 6:33pm — Mike Masnick

Mininova, the latest BitTorrent search engine to raise the ire of the entertainment industry is currently engaged in a court battle with BREIN, an anti-piracy organization, in the Netherlands. Apparently, BREIN is making a variety of highly questionable demands of Mininova, including that it be responsible for installing filters to block certain content (at Mininova's own expense) and that it stop indexing torrents from trackers that allow public uploads. In other words: even if Mininova is considered a search engine, the industry hopes that it can set the rules of what can and cannot be searched. Hopefully the court sees through these arguments. Separately, the article appears to report that BREIN made false statements, including the idea that famed BitTorrent uploader aXXO had been given "VIP" status on the site. The only problem? Mininova offers no such thing. So which is more unethical? Creating a search engine for certain types of files, some of which may be infringing? Or lying in court?

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Filed Under: bittorrent, netherlands, search engines
Companies: brein, minivoa

36 Comments

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James Carmichael, 11 Jun 2009 @ 6:54pm

Oh NO!
It's aXXo not aXXO... I'm only pointing that out because they (aXXo) are very peculiar on the spelling. And I'm a grammar nazi.

[sarcasm] And oh no, please, don't shut down Mininova! There won't be anywhere else to search for torrents! [/sarcasm]
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- GregSJ (profile), 11 Jun 2009 @ 7:13pm
  
  Re: Oh NO!
  LOL. Love the sarcasm code.
  
  First PB now Mininova. Didn't aXXo leave Mininova because of some dispute? (or was that PB?)
  
  As far as your question Mike, they are both pretty unethical. Unfortunately lawyers don't get punished enough for the lies and bogus claims they bring into courts.
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  - visitorxtl, 13 Jun 2009 @ 5:21am
    
    Re: Re: Oh NO!
    oh boy will movie industry ever grow up ?
    when we will be able to pay for movie after we watch it and entitled to "or your money back" policy ? just a way anything else we buy these days and how we are paid for work...
    i saw one of these teams with dogs sniffing dvds guys pretty much look like nazi thugs
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Mechwarrior, 11 Jun 2009 @ 7:39pm

The worst offense is not being able to make money ! Isnt that the point of the Judicial branch?
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2009 @ 7:42pm

If it was actually a search engine, they might have something... but well, we all know what mininova's function is, don't we?
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2009 @ 8:16pm
  
  Re:
  A search engine for torrents?
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2009 @ 9:02pm

Lying in Court
As we've seen over and over before, it's alright to lie in court if your big enough and rich enough. Perjury laws are for the little people.
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- Esahc (profile), 11 Jun 2009 @ 10:58pm
  
  Re: Lying in Court
  Please elaborate. I really want to be educated, just like you.
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Kassandra, 11 Jun 2009 @ 10:52pm

Close one down, two pop up
you'd think they'd learn to just leave well enough alone for the simple fact that every shutdown (legal or not) spawns atleast two replacements.
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- Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2009 @ 4:52am
  
  Re: Close one down, two pop up
  Incorrect.
  
  the 2 for 1 replacement theory works if the replacements feel they have no risk of getting legally boned. A ruling against mininova that would require them to filter would be something that could easily be exported against other torrent search sites.
  
  My prediction is that within 18 mohths (end 2010) the only torrent search / seek sites left standing will be hosting in russia, china, or other similar isolated jurisdictions.
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  - hegemon13, 12 Jun 2009 @ 6:47am
    
    Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
    ROFL. You are kidding, right? That's the prediction that's been made over, and over, and over, and over atgain. Guess what? There are still more torrent sites today than ever before. In fact, the rule is actually more like 10:1. Heck, several wannabe replacements pop up every time a major torrent search site is even threatened. There are literally thousands of trackers out there. The *AAs and there international sisters are playing a game of whack-a-mole where the moles endlessly multiply.
    
    And, in the end, even if the do somehow manage to win against torrents, guess what that means? Nothing, because by then a new technology will move in to take its place. In fact, that will happen whether or not they defeat torrents.
    
    This is not about what you like or don't like, or how things "should" or "shouldn't" be. This is reality, and the reality is that piracy always has been and always will be one step ahead of the industries. So, the industries can find a way to work around it (or even *shock* embrace it), or they can fail. Those are the only two options left, like it or not. I like it. Why? Because it forces the creation of innovative, value-added services like XBOX Live. I would never mod a 360 to accept pirated games because doing so would/could get it permanently banned from Live. MS and the developers win by providing and tying into a stable, effective, innovative, and constantly evolving service.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - hegemon13, 12 Jun 2009 @ 6:49am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
      "The *AAs and there international sisters..."
      
      Oops, correction: their
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  - Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 12 Jun 2009 @ 6:55am
    
    Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
    yep, the fear is why there are no more spammers out there. That's the same exact reason there are no more people camming movies, using Kazaa, limewire, creating new P2P software, newsgroups, FTP, HTTP, Facebook, MySpace. I could go to the extream and point out how the fear of prosecution has stopped all occurrences of child porn and murder. Or I could go the easy route and point out the fact that there aren't multiple bookmarks in my Firefox that point to websites with 50+ different torrent site links each.
    
    /sarcasm (you know, in case you didn't see it dripping)
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    - Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2009 @ 7:12am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
      Actually, if you understood what stupid levels spammers are having to go to in order to deliver spam to you at this point, I think you would understand that this has been very effective.
      
      90% of the spam now comes from a few very small groups of people, mostly based in Russia, Bulgaria, and so on. Botnets and such. There isn't the spam there was 10 years ago, where everyone and their dog sent spam. Now spam is a very, very narrow marketplace.
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      - Adept-Slacker, 12 Jun 2009 @ 10:05am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
        It may be true that spammers are smaller in number these days, but they sure don't have a problem creating massive amounts of spam. I made the mistake of allowing anonymous comments on a single blog entry I had, and I ended up with 4000 garbage posts IN ONE DAY. Yesterday, as a matter of fact. Like pirates, spammers are always trying to stay one step ahead of anti-spam measures. I have a little more respect for the pirates, though.
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  - minijedimaster (profile), 12 Jun 2009 @ 7:16am
    
    Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
    My prediction is that within 18 mohths (end 2010) the only torrent search / seek sites left standing will be hosting in russia, china, or other similar isolated jurisdictions.
    Or...Google
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    - Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2009 @ 8:45am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
      Nope, same thing again - if there is enough pressure not to link torrent files, it is a VERY, VERY simple flick of a switch for google to stop putting .torrent files into their search pages.
      
      I think you will see that happen around the same time as well.
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      - PaulT (profile), 13 Jun 2009 @ 2:11am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
        That won't stop "piracy" though, of course. It will however set a dangerous legal precedent to say that "copyright owners" can demand that Google and other legitimate search engines censor their results.
        
        Free speech becomes endangered. The "pirates" simply move to another method of transferring files.
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  - PaulT (profile), 13 Jun 2009 @ 2:17am
    
    Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
    "My prediction is that within 18 mohths (end 2010) the only torrent search / seek sites left standing will be hosting in russia, china, or other similar isolated jurisdictions."
    
    Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. However, you seem to be missing the fact that torrents aren't the only way to transfer files. Furthermore, torrents only became popular for 2 reasons - their relative efficiency at transferring large files, and - most importantly - the fact that they were immune to the same legal attacks made against the likes of Napster and Kazaa.
    
    Whether or not torrents get killed by these court actions (a VERY bad thing by the way - there are many legitimate uses for torrents, many of them currently used to save companies thousands or millions of dollars in bandwidth charges for delivering their own content), it won't stop the pirates.
    
    Just as Kazaa and Limewire used systems that were deliberately decentralised to bypass legal precedents set in the Napster case, so new methods of transferring files will appear that bypass legal precedents set here. This game of whack-a-mole will continue until the day that the content industries update their business models so that "piracy" is not an issue, or die fighting the tides. Their choice.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 13 Jun 2009 @ 10:40am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Close one down, two pop up
      Paul, while I think that each time something happens there is a "route around", the point made here might change many things.
      
      If the torrent search / link sites are forced to self edit, then it will make it very difficult for new systems with any sorts of links to illegal content to pop up. This isn't endangering free speech by any means, just endangering disorganized crime.
      
      Torrents per se will not get shut down, and those who have legal content being distributed by torrents won't be turned off. But I am confident that as soon as there isn't any way to find free "pirated" content, that the vast majority of users will turn off their torrent programs and the network will pretty much disappear.
      
      As for those companies saving "thousands or millions of dollars in bandwidth charges for delivering their own content", it is probably time for them to wake up and get an functional business model that doesn't depend on sponging off off other people. It is the couch surfing of business, a great way to do things on the cheap because other people are paying. At the cost of bandwidth at this point, they might want to work their business models so they can afford to do it right.
      
      In the end, the only people that get hurt are freeloaders, a group that sorely needs a kick in the head now and again.
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Franck, 11 Jun 2009 @ 11:49pm

its more then that
Its not just thats its Mininova , as we all know that plenty of other sites gives great torrent service, its the court ruling in itself. All corporations are waiting for is a law to able them to do such or to sue in that sence.

By that standard , im against the ruling.
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jFive, 12 Jun 2009 @ 12:07am

I believe aXXo left one or several sites because they wanted sites to crack down on copycats, people jacking the "aXXo" name. But this is just babble I heard on TPB.
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- Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2009 @ 4:50am
  
  Re:
  Now that would be classic: A site that "helps" people find torrents upset because of people copying their shiz?
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  - hegemon13, 12 Jun 2009 @ 6:53am
    
    Re: Re:
    It is quite funny that aXXo is so touchy about being copied or ripped-off. In fact, I think he/she/it is a total moron. It's also quite hilarious to read threads of flame-wars between rippers who accuse each other of stealing their rips, "propering" them when they shouldn't, etc. Give me a break, guys. You are distributing unauthorized copies of someone else's work. At least do something original of your own before you get pissed about people copying you.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 12 Jun 2009 @ 6:59am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      That's funny, the story I heard was that he quit because people were using his name to upload fakes and TPB wouldn't block people from doing that. It wasn't that people were stealing his uploads (I've only ever seen people get pissed about that because it splits the seeds and affects the down/upload speeds), it was that people were stealing his cred to push their spam and/or **AA propaganda.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - hegemon13, 12 Jun 2009 @ 7:06am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        It's still ridiculous. What cred? That he knows how to encode video reasonably well? Anyone can learn that with a little time. He has no "cred" from me beyond anyone else uploads torrents. Now, if he showed that he could do something original, he would earn some respect from me. Maybe he should publish a book on video encoding. Who knows? But getting pissed about someone soiling your "good name" as a pirate is pretty laughable.
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Retribution (profile), 13 Jun 2009 @ 12:15pm

Authors should no longer fully license music companies
Copyright is more or less the same all over the world. It is a (very) strong right for the maker of a work. This strong original right has been captured over the years by the "in between" industry. Usually referred to as music industry. As mostly (famous) music authors did already in Featured Artist's Coalition they (music authors) should not have giving away/up their rights.

So (music) authors: Keep it, make/give a licence that allow private users to be able to download legally and for free. Anybody earning from (your) music should then buy a license from you. To difficult to administer? No, the internet is your distribution 'machine'. So administer your own rights, if you want you can use for example Creative Commons licences, but geting the retribution is then very difficult, not impossible. Recently a new website saw the light by enabling music authors to administer their own rights: www.villamusicrights.com. In the form they use the music downloaded through that site is no longer illegal and the downloader is no longer a criminal because the music author gave him the licence.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 Jun 2009 @ 11:37am
  
  Re: Authors should no longer fully license music companies
  "Copyright is more or less the same all over the world. It is a (very) strong right for the maker of a work"
  
  This is true - but the requirements to enforce that right are onerous to say the least. The level required to prove infringement is so high that almost everyone can get around it without issue.
  
  Sort of like offering to pay you $10,000 a week for a job, and then never actually telling you where to get your check.
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Amazed, dazed, incensed..., 14 Jun 2009 @ 7:11pm

OMFG
The REAL answer to this issue can be only one thing...From now on, ALL downloads should be illegal! It is the ONLY way!
Resistance Is Futile... We will assimilate you!
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Retribution (profile), 15 Jun 2009 @ 5:20am

Re: Authors should no longer fully license music companies
It is illusion to think that collective rights organisations manage to find all (illegal) and or commercial music users all around the world. And thus not all users will get a bill. With a smart idea it should be possible to appeal to most music users (private and commercial) to enable legal downloads for private users. And enable legal and commercial (paid) usage of music through the smart use of internet. The internet democratised distribution to the detriment of the music industry. It should also be able to help music authors administering their copyright themselves. Commercial users can go to the villamusicrights website buy a license from the music author. In that way (s)he is a legal user of the music for the time as stated in the license by the author. The commercial user pays a certain amount for the license, which will be made payable (after deducting a small fee) to the author within a few weeks.
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sri, 2 Jul 2009 @ 1:37pm

entertiment
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sri, 2 Jul 2009 @ 1:38pm

entertiment
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voice-lessons.com, 10 Aug 2009 @ 4:07am

vocal lessons
If you are looking for voice training,visit voice-lessons.com for best and effective vocal lessons with the Speech Level Singing Technique (SLS).
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It's Funny, 16 Aug 2009 @ 7:08am

It's Funny
It's funny that they spend all this time and money on trying to stop the illegal sharing of music and movies when they sell devices that allow you to record them. I have a DVD recorder and I-pod that allow me to record movies and music. I also have in my attic an old cassette recorder that I used to record music over the radio and albums.
Since I only listen to a couple of songs on any album it would be a waste of money for me to buy an over priced cd. I don’t know about you but there is no movie that is so hot that I’d run out and spend the small fortune is cost to see it. I just wait for it to come out and record it. If their going to make it illegal to download and share then the need to be fair and look at all the medias (DVD-recorders, I-pods, Cable, Computers etc..).
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Apr 2010 @ 8:09pm

Me I am switching to oneswarm client.Fast stealth,and got all file links I want. http://oneswarm.cs.washington.edu/
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dragondeathlord, 22 Apr 2010 @ 8:10pm

Me I am switching to oneswarm client.Fast stealth,and got all file links I want. http://oneswarm.cs.washington.edu/
[ link to this | view in chronology ]