A Closer Look At How Amanda Palmer Connected With Fans To Become Successful
from the it-ain't-'cause-of-the-label dept
We've written a few stories about Amanda Palmer, and her amazing success in connecting directly with fans (and her struggle to get dropped by her major record label), but none got quite as much attention as the last one about her massively successful Twitter experiments last month. The comments on that post got pretty involved, with Amanda herself stopping by to clarify some points. Some people argued that the only reason she had a fan base at all was because of her major record label association, and also claimed that the label financed the album -- which Palmer denied, noting:for the record, i actually fronted ALL of the money for this record, because the label wasn't interested in supporting the effort.... i put in my own 200k (much of it borrowed) to make the record. the label picked it up, but i was never fully paid back (long, vile and complicated), which added insult to injury when they did FUCK all to promote the record.Even more to the point, others are pointing out how much of her core loyal following had nothing to do with anything done by the record label. Hypebot asked Emily White, who's had a long history with Amanda and her work, to weigh in on how she built up her fanbase, and how much impact the record label had. The answer is that the label didn't do very much at all. It got some new markets interested... briefly... but those fans didn't stick around. The true fans were the ones who found out about Amanda and the Dresden Dolls via word of mouth. A few key excerpts (though you should read the whole thing):
I tour managed The Dresden Dolls from 2003-2006 and later co-managed the band as well as managed the launch of Amanda Palmer's solo career. The band self-booked a spring 2004 tour around SXSW hitting everything from sports bars to a bbq restaurant. They had no label, publicist, radio promo, agent, etc. to help book or promote the shows. Before hitting the road, I thought, "who is going to turn up to these shows outside of the Northeast? (as the band is from Boston). How will anyone know about them?"Once again, if you can connect with fans, and give them a true reason to buy, they will. That doesn't mean labels are useless. If they can help artists better connect with fans and provide more reasons to buy, they can absolutely be helpful. But that's just not the way many old school label folks work these days. Some of them are finally getting it (and I've actually had some really great conversations lately with record label folks who are figuring this out). But for artists who can (and want to) do it themselves, there are an increasing number of wonderful opportunities.
But kids DID turn up. Whether it was 100 folks in Carbondale, IL or the amazing show Appalachian State University students put together in Boone, NC, the tour was a smashing indie success. I asked the fans at the merch table and the folks who helped us put the shows together how they knew about the band. The answers were consistently along the lines of "my cousin in Vermont IM'd me," "my boyfriend sent me a CD from Boston," or "someone forwarded me one of their mailers." It was true word-of-mouth about an incredible new band, fostered by Amanda and Brian's commitment to playing killer shows, writing personalized mailers and signing an autograph for every fan who wanted one, no matter how many hours it took.
....
And because of that decision [to sign with a major label], the band did receive pockets of radio success in markets like St. Louis and Arizona. The attendance at those shows spiked in 2006 when a few Dolls songs were receiving airplay. Awesome, right? Well, now it's 2009 and we've returned to some of those markets. Many of those radio fans don't turn up anymore. Yet, the hardcores or "1000 true fans" are still there, just like they have been since they organically founded The Dresden Dolls back in the day. They still line up outside for hours, know every word of every song (whether or not it has been released), and wait around for Amanda's autograph. They don't need a top down marketing plan to tell them what to like. And who are the new hardcore Dolls/ Amanda fans? They are the younger siblings and friends of the original fans, who continue to spread the gospel about an artist who's work they love so much they can't not talk about.
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Filed Under: amanda palmer, connect with fans, reason to buy
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conflicts?
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Re: conflicts?
She went to the grocery store?! Damn, how did I fricken miss that?!
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Re: Re: conflicts?
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Re: conflicts?
(1) No, Amanda is not a client.
(2) Everything we've written about her has been based on links from other sites, so it is incorrect to suggest that only we write about her.
(3) What she's doing is interesting and fits with what we talk about here. Seeing as it's a good example of how this works, why not provide more details. This is especially true since many questioned the earlier details, so this post clarified that.
(4) I have no idea when she last went to the grocery store, nor would I write about it.
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Re: Re: conflicts?
Good point! You've got one guy complaining that you're the only guy writing and another guy complaining that you've cited too much from someone else. Trolls are a rare breed, logic and reason means nothing to 'em.
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Re: conflicts?
OTOH, that might account for part of her popularity.
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Idiot
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I'd be more than willing to connect with her, if given the chance!
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Cause your music is shit.
they weren't interested in supporting the effort cause they thought the music would be shit.
they weren't interested in promoting the effort because it was shit.
they picked you up (probably for peanuts) on the off chance that society would turn retard overnight and for some reason buy your crap.
you jumped at the chance to be on a big label (just like a real life rockstar), so you didn't read your contract, and you got screwed.
tell me i'm wrong.
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Re: Cause your music is shit.
No, Walter, you're not wrong, you're just an asshole. Will you just, take it easy...man?
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Re: Re: Cause your music is shit.
I'm calmer than you are, Dude.
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Re: Cause your music is shit.
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Re: Re: Cause your music is shit.
That means we throw icy chunks of precipiation at him, right? I mean, it seems excessive, but I guess I'm in...
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Re: Cause your music is shit.
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Would you believe?
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i discovered her through techdirt
I'm now going to see her in concert in August!
I might even buy a T-Shirt or 2 ;-)
Check out her videos here: http://whokilledamandapalmer.com/videos.php
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Thanks.
Touche.
"All hail Bob, who commands all who live on this Earth. Let it henceforth be known that all bodies and minds shall act in accordance to his whims."
Sweet.
I know I sound like a dick, but you have to think like an A&R representative when you want to understand how record labels deal with artists of this calibur. They might take a chance (and trust me, it is a chance), but if they do they're going to want to mitigate any loss they might incur if the project bombs (which happens about 85% of the time).
Its hard on artists. Especially the starry-eyed ones who thought they made it big. But it's a business, and that is where they get the money to fund and promote the few artists who become very successful.
If you don't like the business model. Don't sign to a major label. They are in the business of making money- as much as possible. And they can't do that with artists whose music doesn't sell well, or who can't sell out out big venues consistently.
Amanda Palmer does neither.
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Re: Thanks.
No. I don't. I'm a fan of music. I like music. I like listening to music. Therefore I think like somone who does THOSE things. It's high time A&R reps started to fucking thinking like that!!! That would probably solve a shit-ton of the stupid lawsuits currently in the courts!!
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Re: Thanks.
You also seem to have totally missed the point. It's not that the label didn't pay or didn't promote. It's the fact that people ACCUSED her of only having a following because of the label. This discussion showed that to be untrue.
They are in the business of making money- as much as possible.
And how's that been working out for them lately?
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Thats fine. You don't have to think like an A&R rep. But then don't be incensed when an artist you like who didn't do that either gets screwed.
Labels no longer have a monopoly on production. With protools or logic and minimal equipment you can make a professional records and post them wherever you want.
The point is, music in the fat tail is different than music in the long tail, and so are their respective businesses.
Don't be surprised when an artist who didn't consider that gets screwed trying to fit under the wrong part of the curve.
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Re:
that's what you're doing here. I know I've made my share of off-topic comments here, but that's as far as I intended them to go. If you're going to debate, debate the topic at hand; don't start a new topic. That's Mike's job.
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You're right. They failed.
WMG (the parent company of Roadrunner- Amanda Palmers label) made almost $3.5 billion in 2008, and representing a $78 million positive change in their cash position.
So, yeah, they're downsizing. But they are cash positive, and eventually they will stabilize, and they will still be a fucking huge company.
The record industry is changing. That doesn't mean its going away, and that record companies won't still make alot of money.
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Re: You're right. They failed.
The more time they devote to changing their business model to keep pace with changing times, and the less time they spend trying to leglislate support for their business model, the better.
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Re: You're right. They failed.
Heh. Profits, Bob, profits. Have you noticed any lately?
WMG just had to borrow a billion dollars at a rather high interest rate. They were running out of cash.
What's their growth rate? Are they making more money this year than they were last?
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So in other words, they are failing, but because they still have so much money from their glory days it's going to take a while.
"...and they will still be a fucking huge company."
Does that give you a boner or something?
McDonald's is a much bigger company, does that mean that their food is good? Because last time I checked it was just about impossible to swallow unless you are drunk.
And does the fact that they don't have, say, tiramisu mean that tiramisu isn't good, while those apple pie thingies are?
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I'm sure that mediocre, generic crap like 'Nickleback' is more his speed.
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Re:
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Having dumped on her record label at that point, she went off from there, and things have gotten stupider.
Her position as a darling to techdirt doesn't come because she wants to be there, rather because she appears to have such an attitude that she doesn't want to work with anyone else, which leaves only her current "selling t-shirts and crap from our last tour" to make money rather than actually playing more shows.
"you do it to yourself, you do"
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Re:
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Amanda Palmer is about as successful as a pregnant nun
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Re: Amanda Palmer is about as successful as a pregnant nun
When the promotion company has nothing to offer because their promotion methods are worse than what an individual comes up with herself, they're a success?
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You may think her music "sucks." That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it - I think lots of musicians suck. But even if they did, I would still think they were treated unfairly were they in Amanda's position.
If you want to be more accurate, instead of "sucks," you should say "wouldn't sell." But here's the thing: The album sold 30,000 copies, no thanks to the label. If you're a business that sells 30,000 units, and you can't make a profit, then you should re-think your business strategy.
In reality, they did make a profit - they just didn't give any of it to the artist. From Amanda's viewpoint, the record was nothing more than a handout to label executives.
As to being "difficult:" as far as the art itself goes, being difficult is part of an artist's job. This is because your first priority is to create quality art. A label doesn't care whether your art is good, they care about maximizing profits. (Never mind that the quality of the art is its selling point.)
Obviously this clash is nothing new, but at the end of the day, the artist has to make the final call. It's the artist's "product," after all - they're the "brand" that the "consumers" are buying, and will be loyal to, or not.
Labels interfering with artists' output is exactly like ad agencies changing the formula for Coke.
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Re: 30,000 scientologists
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Amanda Palmer, what a mess.
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A Closer Look At How Amanda Palmer Alienated Her Fans And Pissed People Of By Being A Tacky Offensive Try Hard.
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