Will France's Three Strikes Law Also Allow Gov't Email Surveillance?

from the that-doesn't-seem-good dept

Tue, Jul 21st 2009 1:16pm — Mike Masnick

With the effort underway to have Sarkozy's new "three strikes" law approved in France, much of the focus has been on the slightly ridiculous five minute rule it gives to judges reviewing charges of copyright infringement online. An anonymous reader points us to a much more worrisome issue: that the law appears to sneak in provisions that allow for email surveillance by the government. The Senator pushing the law seems to see no problem at all with this, suggesting that it's fine to read through the emails of anyone "stealing intellectual property." Privacy rights apparently mean little to some in France.

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Filed Under: email, france, surveillance, three strikes

23 Comments

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PopeHilarius (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 1:27pm

This is right in line with that Christian Engström suggested would happen in his FT editorial- zeal for protecting copyrights means privacy has to be trampled.
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yozoo, 21 Jul 2009 @ 1:51pm

WTF?
if they need to read my email to insure I have not stolen any intellectual property, then why dont they need to read my regular mail to insure I have not stolen any real property?
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- DJ (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 3:17pm
  
  Re: WTF?
  Or listen to your phone calls, or video monitor your every move.....
  
  Ya kinda hit the nail on the head there, bro.
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- ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 4:25pm
  
  Re: WTF?
  Does France have the same "everything is copyrighted" law as the US? If so, three strikes...
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  - Anonymous Coward, 21 Jul 2009 @ 5:36pm
    
    Re: Re: WTF?
    Does France have the same "everything is copyrighted" law as the US?
    
    Similar. That's a requirement of the Berne Convention, of which France is a signatory. (as of September 2008 there were 164 countries that were parties to the Berne Convention)
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- Anonymous Coward, 21 Jul 2009 @ 4:35pm
  
  Re: WTF?
  why dont they need to read my regular mail to insure I have not stolen any real property?
  
  Who says that won't be next?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 1:52pm

Sigh
"The Senator pushing the law seems to see no problem at all with this, suggesting that it's fine to read through the emails of anyone "stealing intellectual property." Privacy rights apparently mean little to some in France."

Somewhere I see George Bush and Dick Cheney asking each other, "why the hell didn't WE think of that?"

Sadly, the only surprise here is that this is occurring in France (America's newest butt buddy) instead of England (America's oldest butt buddy). Normally the UK is the proving ground for ridiculous new laws these Bilderburg types want to push through in America. If they succeed in the UK, they slowly get pushed into law over here. If the public backlash is too great, you get a show by some politicians talking about the socialism of Europe and we'll never do that and blah blah blah.

I guess it's France's turn, which is actually kind of fitting giving the presence of these secret society types and their history in the Languedoc region (Templars, Rosicurians, Hitler's/Himmler's/Bormann's expeditions, the rumored burial ground of the Magdalene, etc. is al in that one area).
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- BullJustin (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 2:18pm
  
  Re: Sigh
  G-Dub and Dick did think of that - it's called the Patriot Act. It led to the warrantless wiretapping, which was recently legalized by congress. A large part of the surveillance that the administration (former and current) uses is still classified, and is suspected to include voice, email, and data.
  
  If the government ever opened up about how much they watch us, there would be tremendous backlash.
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  - Dark Helmet (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 2:29pm
    
    Re: Re: Sigh
    "G-Dub and Dick did think of that - it's called the Patriot Act. It led to the warrantless wiretapping, which was recently legalized by congress. A large part of the surveillance that the administration (former and current) uses is still classified, and is suspected to include voice, email, and data.
    
    If the government ever opened up about how much they watch us, there would be tremendous backlash."
    
    Sir, BELIEVE me, I know that. The "why didn't WE think of that" was supposed to apply to using intellectual property and copyright infringement as the completely bullshit scapegoat, as opposed to domestic terrorism.
    
    And that all-inclusive snoop system you're talking about is called the Echelon Network, and it's real and information on it has been partially declassified. The only point of contention is that the government, namely the operating agency in charge of the surveillance (the NSA), has said repeatedly that they have only used the Echelon Network against the Soviets and now Iran/N. Korea and never domestically, and some of us cry bullshit.
    
    When the NSA says "trust us", my eyebrows immediately go up. This is the same group that refused to admit that they existed for the 1st 30 years after its creation, back when it was humourously dubbed the No Such Agency. Which is fine, they're an intelligence agency, they're supposed to have and be secret. But they also don't get to expect my trust.
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    - BullJustin (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 3:12pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Sigh
      Right on.
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      - Dark Helmet (profile), 22 Jul 2009 @ 10:20am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Sigh
        Actually wrote a book on this topic, currently out to Baen for consideration. Also actively looking for a way to "leak" it out onto BitTorrent sites to drum up popularity, but haven't worked out how to generate word of mouth buzz on it yet.
        
        Maybe I'll have to get that Make Mike Masnick Work For You Package, except that I still don't see any CwDH...
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    - KeillRandor (profile), 21 Jul 2009 @ 3:12pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Sigh
      But the NSA don't need to use Echelon domestically - they ask GCHQ in the UK to do it for them - (and vice versa...).
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- Hephaestus (profile), 22 Jul 2009 @ 9:41am
  
  Re: Sigh
  .... I had a thought ..... the pirate party is coming!!! france prepare to surrender .... its what you are good at after all .... ROFLMAO
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Paul Brinker, 21 Jul 2009 @ 3:40pm

I
it takes a warrent to get into my real mail, why should email be any differnt? IF we can get it to the supreem court it would never pass, BUT! by the nature of how it works, you have to prove harm to yourself right now to go to court.

Secret orders need to go away please thank you :)
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Jul 2009 @ 4:39pm

Not Surprising
Remember, this is the same country is which a significant proportion of the population and government collaborated with the Nazis when they invaded.
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David, 22 Jul 2009 @ 12:42am

Three strikes etc.
Encryption, anyone? Doing it already.
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Enrico Suarve, 22 Jul 2009 @ 1:50am

Not fair
As a proud Britain I object strongly to this move by France, just who the hell do they think they are?

We take great pride in the way we have carefully nurtured and developed the most privacy invasive state in the western world and have gone to great length to ensure we are ahead of everyone else, our databases and careful dismantling of data protection laws are the envy of every up and coming stasi the world over

Honestly, we tried to go for the "most abuse of human rights" title but were blown clear out of the water by the Americans - and now this??

I guess its time to activate Jacqui's plan B in her absence and start putting all private phone calls on youtube, that'll show the frogs

Bwahh, haarr, humrumph - Agincourt don'tcha know
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- Dark Helmet (profile), 22 Jul 2009 @ 6:13am
  
  Re: Not fair
  ....If it makes you feel any better, you Brits still hold the cup in the "Teeth so bad they make me poop myself" category.
  
  Feel better?
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  - Enrico Suarve, 22 Jul 2009 @ 6:41am
    
    Re: Re: Not fair
    It doesn't sound quite as prestigious
    
    Is the cup shiny?
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    - Dark Helmet (profile), 22 Jul 2009 @ 10:18am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Not fair
      "It doesn't sound quite as prestigious
      
      Is the cup shiny?"
      
      What difference would it make if it was? There's no sun in England anyway...
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      - Enrico Suarve, 23 Jul 2009 @ 3:48am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Not fair
        No but we have candles so we're good
        
        PS we also have super uber scary l33t hackers that cost the pentagon billions just by looking at them funny - be nice or we'll get Gary to look for fairies on the NYSE systems
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        Dark Helmet (profile), 23 Jul 2009 @ 6:33am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not fair
        Haha, that was awesome.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Aug 2009 @ 8:16am

presumably, then, if the government looks at three different emails which contain material under the copyright of the sender, the government will lose it's internet connection.
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