Facing Five Years In Prison For Posting A Photo On MySpace Wearing Gang Colors
from the seems-a-bit-harsh dept
Dealing with gang activity is certainly a priority in areas beset by gang violence, but does that mean we throw out certain First Amendment rights? Last year, Florida passed a new anti-gang law that banned using electronic communications "for the purpose of benefiting, promoting, or furthering the interests of a criminal gang" and that included "advertis[ing] his or her presence in the community" via an online image or video. Apparently, authorities in Florida have now arrested 15 people under this law based on their MySpace profiles, including one 14-year-old who "posted pictures of himself dressed in gang colors and displaying gang hand signals." For this, all of those arrested now face up to 5 years in prison. Some are already protesting the constitutionality of this law. It certainly seems like a limit on free expression.Even recognizing the problems with gang violence, it seems a bit extreme to arrest people and threaten them with jailtime just for posting such photos on their profiles. Why not use that information to track and monitor certain gang members to try to stop actual illegal gang activity? Here are kids advertising to anyone (including the police) that they're in a gang, which should make it easier for the police to follow them and use that info to deal with real gang activity.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: florida, free speech, gangs, social networks
Companies: myspace
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
asked and answered two lines apart
obviously that question has already been answered;
'anti-gang law that banned using electronic communications "for the purpose of benefiting, promoting, or furthering the interests of a criminal gang"'
Thank god at least someone was thinking of the chidlren and has already limited free speech here.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: asked and answered two lines apart
Punishing people for exercising their first amendment right is unconstitutional. period.
If you want to protect children, then target the organizations that recruit them, not the children. And certainly do not ignore the constitution as it is the most powerful protector of the people.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Politicians keep enacting laws that give the most expedient path to providing some sort of visible safety unconcerned whether it is effective or not or even good in the long term or not And we keep going along with it. I want my kids to be safe but I also want them to have all of the rights and freedoms we associate with being an american.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
And you're surprised? You must be new here (and by here I mean planet Earth) :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Too often, in today's society, we think everything is a right. A right to drive, a right to marry who we want, the right to do with our body what we want, the right to belong to a criminal gang, none of these are rights. It is the things similar enough that the police can use well intentioned laws to further abuse the law abiding citizens. The police already have too much unsupervised power. Once we fix that I won't mind laws against gangs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
should have left those off. I was with you on the driving, but after that your argument fell apart for me. I would have even gone for the marriage one, since I believe marriage is a bullshit institution to impose some false moral values on people. But, to say that someone doesn't have the right to do what they want with their own body is ridiculous. You do not own anybody so you should have absolutely no say so in what they choose to do with their bodies, whether it be piercing, tattoos, or even abortion.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: RIGHTS
Learn the law before you cry about it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: RIGHTS
> alone and not the whole US then their right to
> assemble was NOT infringed.
Really? So if the government told anti-war protesters they couldn't assemble in the downtown area during the Republican convention, that wouldn't violate the 1st Amendment because the area they were banned from was limited?
Think again. Half a dozen SCOTUS cases have said otherwise.
> Learn the law before you cry about it.
Advice you would do well to heed yourself.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: RIGHTS
As i was writing this comment i went to wikipedia to look at the bil of rights. In the background section there was something that I found a bit pertinent.
Finally, Hamilton expressed the fear that protecting specific rights might imply that any unmentioned rights would not be protected:
"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
oh boy...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Who else does that leave.... me sitting here in front of my computer naked (yes I am at work why do you ask?)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Are you defending gangs or are you trying to protect people who are not affiliated with gangs yet feel the need to posts pictures of themselves in gang attire while flashing gang signs innocently? Just wondering.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
"Your analogy is poor at best. Are Hippies "a gang"? Was Churchill "a gang member"? Not in my book..."
Though the examples used may appear absurd on their face, you finish that sentence with the most important point: Who determines who is part of a "criminal gang", and further, who provides oversight of placing the label? To some at the time, the Hippies were considered as being some sort of threat, from illicit drug use through radical ideology that caused fear and overreaction to their cause.
Further, what do you think would have been the fate of Churchill had the British lost the war? Would the German government have seen him as a war criminal if history had unfolded in a different way? Were those caught up in the Stalinist purges criminals? What about McCarthy in the 50's; were the blacklisted actors and writes criminals?
You will find that the term "Criminal" is wholly dependent upon the culture and time when the charges are made. Be careful when you rely on the common sense of the public to understand the subtleties here...
JMHO
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
This is a matter of politicians trying to put a quick band-aid on something that is a much deeper social problem -- but the cancer remains. Unfortunately, so do the politicians. :(
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Personally, I thought the analogy worked well in portraying the poster's intent...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The law may not stand up as constitutional
Is it possible that the law was enacted with the absolute knowledge that it will get shot down in 3-5 years???
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The law may not stand up as constitutional
I'm curious why you say that. What would be the purpose of something like that? Who would benefit?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: The law may not stand up as constitutional
They have a Gang problem, they also know it will take a few years to get the law shot down. They are also aware that any searches and furter charges would stand up in court even if the law was shot down.
I could see this law being used to arrest/detain gang members and use evidence from the search at the time of arrest for other charges. Then dropping this charge to keep it from going to the supreme court.
In the years it will take to get the law invalidated they will have made a dent in the gang problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
it is illegal activity
"Why not use that information to track and monitor certain gang members to try to stop actual illegal gang activity?"
You yourself said there is a LAW making it ILLEGAL to use electronic media to promote gang activity.
That is what they were doing. So they were arrested for doing something ILLEGAL.
Move to Florida for a while. Then see how much you care if a law on the books is constitutional. These gangs have open season on us and our families. All we have is the THE LAW.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What colors?
So we cannot wear red, blue, or black anymore? Or G forbid wearing a red shirt with a red bandanna.
Thats it. Get that 14 year old kid into the system. That will push him to the good side. Right?
How many times have you seen the whitest suburban kids flashing gang signs although you know they have never seen a gang member? How many of those kids will be swept up in that crap? Real good Florida.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
MY two cents.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
My two cents, part the second.
Anyhow, The only defense I can see for this is if the people involved have already been convicted of a gang-related crime. If these people are non-convict citizen, then this is a pretty clear violation of their rights, though it probably will take nice chuck of time to fix the issue, taking them presumed troublemakers off the street.
I'm tracking this as the politicianspolice manipulating the system, which I can't support. They should be fixing it, rather than using it to generate excuses to arrest people they don't like.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
fair or foul?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
EAT. SLEEP. OBEY.
Did it occur to anyone else that they are wasting tax dollars on having FBI agents/police myspacing at work!?
Why not get them out there in the streets and actually do something about the gangs if they are such a problem.
This is a violation of our rights. Hey, if you are going to violate our rights, at least act like the cops in FRESNO, CA did and go out and arrest anyone in the streets wearing Fresno State apparel and/or colors!!! At least they violated the people's rights out where gang activity takes place and not coveinently sitting on their rear ends violating rights from a computer screen.
I'm actually for this ruling - WE SHOULD ALL BE REQUIRED TO WEAR NEUTRAL COLORS, TAKE A BAR CODE ON OUR FOREHEADS, AND OBEY "THE LAW."
Regan - something to the tune of "the scariest words you'll ever hear are I'm from the government, I'm here to help!"
Only "The Man" will kill you to prevent you from harming yourself.
V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Constitutional Fail
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
People say here you can't define a criminal street gang.
You can. It's an organization that uses violence, and intimidation, as a means of propogating illegal drug trade.
When I say propogate BTW, I mean proactive. They have a defined code of dress, speech, behavior, and communication.
When the sole purpose of an organization can be proved to be for a criminal enterprise, and you have been identified (through your OWN actions) then yes, the law should be able to step in and regulate your behavior. Is this such a heavy handed step? Kids being shot in cold blood, AND we should defend this punks (my opinion only) "free speech" ?
This isn't a first amdendment issue, IMHO, because the line was crossed from expression a long time ago. Now it could be argued, what constitutes criminal communication vs. protected speech, BUT AGAIN by their own admission (the gang signs, hello!) they are part of a criminal gang.
The laws need to be changed in response to these terrorist thugs. I agree with the above poster who stated the sentence proposed is too long. Let the punishment fit the crime. A year in prison sounds good. First time offenders could get probation,etc,. but something needs to be done.
Unless you have to deal with these SCUM in your community, you don't know how it feels.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Easy. People who are just "looking out for each other" don't execute hits in the form of driveby shootings, and surprisingly don't need to sell pounds of drugs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Rights
> be proved to be for a criminal enterprise
The only problem with this is that there is rock-solid constitutional precedent that forbids punishment for guilt-by-association. You can't punish one person for the crimes of another just because they're both part of the same group. Even conspiracy has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt against each specific individual.
And you certainly can't punish people (i.e. regulate their behavior and freedom of movement) if they haven't even been charged with (let alone convicted of) a crime.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That of course, is total BS. Despite disagreeement from both sides of the political spectrum about which party in the US is the true band of criminals, I gave a clear definition above as to what constitutes a gang. Decriminalization of narcotics would help fight the problem, but the differences between gangs, and political parties are clear. You don't (excluding the dreams of TV Cable News executives) see Democratic Party leaders selling heroin on the street corner.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Doughnut Munchers in the house.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Dealing with gangs.
The rest of you can debate this endlessly, but the intellectual masturbation is sad in the face of people getting shot trying to buy milk down the street. Shoot. Them. All.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
http://forums.christianity.com/Facing_Five_Years_In_Prison_For_Posting_A_Photo_On_MySpace_ Wearing_Gang_Colors/m_4481565/mpage_1/tm.htm#1
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hardly it.
In other words, you flash Crip signs and dress the part, bullet in the head. The game has changed, the rules have changed, and law enforcement is still forced to play on a different field. No. That's enough.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You have got to be kidding me
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Private Myspace
[ link to this | view in chronology ]