Lily Allen, Don't Apologize To Me, Apologize To Everyone Else
from the sorry,-but-that's-not-the-point dept
It seems that a few folks misunderstood the point of my post yesterday in joking about Lily Allen's double standard in ranting against unfair copying while copying blog posts from other sites. And Lily herself appears to be among those people. She's posted an apology, though, a bit petulantly, starting in all capital letters:I THINK ITS QUITE OVIOUS THAT I WASNT TRYING TO PASS OF THOSE WORDS AS MY OWN , HERE IS A LINK TO THE WEBSIITE I ACQUIRED THE PIECE FROM . Apologies to Michael MasnickWhile I appreciate the "apology," that's really missing the point. First, the reason TorrentFreak and I both brought it up wasn't because I was upset about her using the post. As I clearly said in my response, I thought it was great that she wanted to use our post, and I encouraged her to do so. The point, though, was that it was a bit hypocritical of her to be going on and on about how evil it is to copy another's work without their permission, when she went and did the same thing. Furthermore, the point is that when it's natural and easy for people to copy like that, it's time to learn to accept it and use it to your advantage. So, no apology is necessary to me. My post wasn't about you trying to pass off my words as your own, but recognizing that even you, Lily Allen copy other people's work all the time, even without realizing it.
And, yet, in the very same breath, you want to kick people off the internet for doing the same thing?
If anyone deserves an apology, it's all the people you've been blasting with this complaint that it's "piracy" that's somehow harming artists, when the actual evidence shows no such thing. Plenty of artists have learned to embrace file sharing and used it to their advantage, suggesting it's not piracy that's the problem -- it's artists unwillingness to adapt and put in place smarter business models. Running to the gov't and asking them to kick your fans off the internet isn't a new business model. So, don't apologize to me. We're happy for you to use Techdirt posts however you want. We just thought it was worth calling your attention to the fact that even you seem to have no problem copying stuff when convenient, so maybe you should think twice about blasting everyone else for doing the same thing.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: apologies, copying, copyright, infringement, lily allen, techdirt
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Futile efforts...
On a side note, thought this quote from Albert Einstein was relevant, "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." That man was truly a friggin GENIUS!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Futile efforts...
It reminds me of a tale from long ago (well the 70s actually).
The operators of the University's mainframe computer kept a number of lineprinter picture files, they were used as a quick way of testing the full width of the drum and the character set. The older ones among you may remember the Mona Lisa, Snoopy etc etc. Users would print them out from time to time to put on their walls.
At some point the authorities decided that this was a waste of paper and put the pictures into a protected directory where users couldn't get them. Of course a few people had made their own copies already and these copies quickly multiplied as people shared them around. So now file storage space (then an expensive commodity) was being wasted as well as paper.
Of course the authorities didn't stand still, they started looking at all the large files on the system and deleting any picture files that they found. As you will probably have guessed they couldn't complete this process before the word got around and people quickly encrypted their files to look like innocent experimental datasets. These files were of course bigger than the original pictures so now paper, even more file store and CPU (then expensive) and man hours were being expended and the problem wasn't fixed.
Everything they do will make the file sharing "problem" worse and more expensive, When will they learn?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Futile efforts...
Those poor poor fools, they will NEVER learn. All we can do is wait until the day the current generation of kids growing up with technology assumes control. Until then, nothing will every change, because too many in power now have no idea how the internet works or how to even use it to their advantage.
On a side note, I do give our President props for being able to utilize technology so effectively, embracing youTube... Good choice. Although, I am still waiting for the website that lists the 5 W's for our tax money being spent.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Futile efforts...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Futile efforts...
Don't mind if I pirate it and make it my own from now on... mwahahahaha. ;-)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Futile efforts...
Fred: Why yes Ted! Go ahead and unencrypt that file over there, and print it out...
Printer: . . . *Prints out a Duck on Wheels*
And thus 4chan was born
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Futile efforts...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jammie, are you listening?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
1. Bas said "First warning. 2 more and you'll get cut off from the internet, Lilly ;-)", which I thought was effing hysterical.
2. Some commentor pointed her to www.ip-echelon.com and offered her free IP conulting services. Mike, have you ever done any posts on this group? Or heard of them? They have some truly frightening literature on their website, and I find the Echelon reference to be rather ominous...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Only an idiot
?
Mike didn't ask for an apology, he wasn't offended.
The offended people are all the ones she wants to kick off the net for doing what more or less just what she has done.
And yes, it DOES compare, Her actions are actually worse, I am not taking credit for creating music I have downloaded, I am just listening to it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Another "Reason to Buy"
I am watching Mike on the feed right now, and thinking about calling the health department because that slice of pizza with the white fuzzies on it has to be at least three weeks old.
Bravo. I'll let you know when it gets out of beta.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Another "Reason to Buy"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Another "Reason to Buy"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: AC comment #5
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
enough already
rear view mirror, horseless carriage, to paraphrase: people have this idealized version of the past and apply it to the present.
the people are content commodifiers (big media)
the idealized version, is basically, BN (b4 napster)
marinate and your welcome
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Again, how is re-posting a post from TechDirt "copying another's work without permission" when Mike has given open permission for anyone to copy and use TechDirt posts as they see fit? If someone posts material that they did not need permission to copy, how is expressing frustration at those who do use material without permission "a bit hypocritical"?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I don't think any of the pro-sharing side is frustrated either. I think we all just think it's funny that in a post about not copying, she copies. The 2 more strikes and she's off the internet is comment is hilarious.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
On the other hand, using any material, even material you have been given permission to use, without attribution is plagiarism. Even though Mike has given permission to do that, it doesn't matter much.
The point here is, Lily Allen was criticizing a man for letting other people 'steal' or copy his material. She accused him of being selfish for not demanding that his material be bought, because it hurts everyone else in his distribution chain. While making this argument, she 'stole', or copied the material of someone who was also saying that anyone could take his stuff.
This is hypocrisy. Stating a belief or ethic while violating that ethic is rank hypocrisy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I'm getting the impression that she is just another person with only the faintest understanding of what the web is and how it works. The only thing exceptional about her is that she is slightly younger than most people who are that ignorant.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I'm getting the impression that she is just another person who doesn't really understand how the world works. Knee-jerk reaction to a situation, likely couldn't explain why she thinks "piracy" is bad other than "because" and "OMG" and "like, like".
Yes, piracy is bad like the record man says it is.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yeah but...
Funny, yes, and ironic, but you DO realize that, according to the big copyright conglomerates that this ONLY applies to individual file sharers, those scum "pirates", and not to anyone actually IN those industries? You see, the double standard applies, and until or unless you understand that, your well thought out and logical "good for the goose, good for the gander" points will fall on deaf ears. Hypocrisy only goes one way, after all.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
She didn't attribute it, though. It is common courtesy to attribute the source of a quote, especially if you are a copyright maximalist.
And remember, the post in question was talking about 50 Cents attitude toward file sharing. He said he was OK with it, and she said that this was selfish of him, and that he shouldn't be OK with it. So even if the copyright owner is OK with people infringing, she was saying it is still wrong.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Funny
"I THINK ITS QUITE OVIOUS THAT I WASNT TRYING TO PASS OF THAT SONG "FUCK YOU" AS MY OWN , HERE IS A LINK TO THE TORRENT SIITE I ACQUIRED THE PIECE FROM . Apologies to Lily Allen"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
In all fairness I don't think she did the same thing, because she always has and always will have your permission to use your blog posts Mike. I think you misstated that and meant that she probably should have at least referenced your article.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Commentors just don't understand..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The point of the article is not that she did anything wrong in quoting Mike. It was that, while criticizing someone else for allowing other's to take their material, and saying that no one should ever allow others blanket permission to take their stuff, she took Mike's stuff.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Commentors just don't understand..
Joe says I like Cake and I like to share it.
Mike says I like Cake and I like to share it also.
Lily says I like Cake, but Joe wanting to share his Cake is just WRONG, he isn't thinking about how sharing Cake is going to end up destroying the whole world. While she's saying this she is sitting there eating a piece of cake that she took (borrowed, shared, whatever term you want to use) from Mike without asking or even acknowledging the fact (which he's fine with).
If you can't see the hyprocracy, then I'm sure the MPAA/RIAA have a great job waiting for you in their PR department.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Commentors just don't understand..
The cake is a lie.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Commentors just don't understand..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Commentors just don't understand..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A musician is not happy with people who download/upload her music without her permission.
Techdirt gleefully calls her a hypocrite because she used quotes from at least techdirt, even though techdirt has made it only too clear one using its content does not need permission.
Must be fun to lambaste a person, all the while ignoring a rather important factual distinctions.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
TechDirt gives permission to use their articles as long as they are credited. They do NOT give permission to use them uncredited, but their policy is NOT TO PURSUE any violations of this nature.
What Lily Allen did violated copyright law, regardless if a lawsuit is pursued or not.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You mean like the fact that she lifted the entire post, rather than "quoted" as you attempted to portray it. Oh, we are just RIFE with hypocrisy today, aren't we?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
A rather important distinction in the eyes of the law, but apparently irrelevant to those with the mindset "I want it free and I want it now!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Putting aside for the moment that I was looking beyond the literal and labeling Lily as one of the "sharing w/o paying is bad no matter what" people, I don't remember Mike EVER complaining about not getting paid.
What I DO remember is he jovially pointed out that she had lifted his entire, albeit brief post without so much as a link back to Techdirt nor a mention of where she got it. She did absolutely NOTHING to distinguish Mike's writing from hers, which would lead all non-TD readers to assume that SHE wrote it. That is unethical at best, and plagarism at worst, and it cuts to the heart of the debate we're having here: hypocrisy.
She copied w/o doing what is ethical in order to complain about people who are copying w/o doing what is ethical.
And that is pretty fucking stupid.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Please, explain further.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
In this particular case we appear to have a rights holder who does not want third parties to violate her rights under copyright law. This is her legal right, and she has perfectly understandable and valid reasins to complain.
In the case of techdirt, it has specifically authorized third parties to "have at it" with its articles. The rights holder, just like all third parties, is thus free from legal restraint.
Thus, in the case of the rights holder she has indicated that she requires permission, as is her legal right. In the case of techdirt it has indicated that it does not require permission, as it is likewise free to do.
To call her a hypocrite is inaccurate and little more than a gratuituous insult without any foundation.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok. Since you seem to be especially dense in figuring this out, let's write it out for you (though others have already):
1. Ms. Allen claimed that it was bad for 50 Cent to say that it was ok to share his music because it harmed all the others in the value chain.
2. Like 50 Cent, I am perfectly find with having my works shared. Thus, but Ms. Allen's own standards, what I am doing is bad.
3. Still, she had no problem taking the content, posting it without attribution.
4. Her "apology" showed she had no clue that our content is free for the taking.
5. Thus, she had no problem taking another's content, despite claiming it was bad
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
When I read the linked post it was abundantly clear that the "plagiarized" comment was not something she wrote. The entire theme of her blog is precisely to the contrary of the "plagiarized" comment. Did she give credit to the source of the comment? No. Should she have identified the source? Probably, if for no other reason than to cite its origin.
Suddenly, however, the tenor of the debate changes from unlawful downloads to one of "plagiarism" being an ethical and moral matter that should not be tolerated in any form.
I am constantly struck by the proclivity of persons who are adamant supporters of P2P, including downloading and uploading content that is so obviously illegal, to rationalize that what they do is somehow a noble endeavor for which artists should be grateful. And yet, the replication of content that is entirely lawful is now an ignoble endeavor and must be criticized at every opportunity.
This is little more than a tempest in a teapot and hardly worthy of even a mention. Of couse, P2P apologists for illegal downloads and uploads miss no opportunity to salve their consciences by trying to portray someone else as a hypocritical miscreant.
Sorry, but the self-satisfying "hysteria" by those looking for any opportunity to criticize is disingenuous at best and intellectually dishonest at worst.
Color me singularly unimpressed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Or, do you call people who speed "Road Apologists?"
Also, since every creative work is instantly covered by copyrights, wouldn't copying word for word someone's written creation be the same as copying an mp3? (someone's musical creation) Can I put up a link of a song, add three sentences criticizing it and it's all legal?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Clearly, you do not.
Copying something without permission (e.g., an unlawful download/upload) is now being equated with plagiarism. In fact, some commenters appear to view plagiarism as even more pernicious.
Uh, no. The issue is hypocrisy. Try to get this straight. It's not complicated.
Suddenly, however, the tenor of the debate changes from unlawful downloads to one of "plagiarism" being an ethical and moral matter that should not be tolerated in any form.
No. That was not the point. The point (already explained to you in GREAT DETAIL) was that the hypocrisy was in claiming copying was bad, and then DOING COPYING YOURSELF. It had nothing to do with an ethical statement.
I am constantly struck by the proclivity of persons who are adamant supporters of P2P, including downloading and uploading content that is so obviously illegal, to rationalize that what they do is somehow a noble endeavor for which artists should be grateful. And yet, the replication of content that is entirely lawful is now an ignoble endeavor and must be criticized at every opportunity.
Again, look up. Way up. No, higher. See that? It's the point. Way way way over your head. No one is saying that replicating content itself should be criticized. We're saying that claiming one thing (copying is bad bad bad, destroying the industry) and then DOING IT YOURSELF suggests hypocrisy and no understanding of the issues.
Of couse, P2P apologists for illegal downloads and uploads miss no opportunity to salve their consciences by trying to portray someone else as a hypocritical miscreant.
I am no apologist and do not use P2P other than for legal purposes. But hypocrisy is hypocrisy, even if you appear to have trouble connecting the dots.
Color me singularly unimpressed.
Obviously. Though, your inability to understanding basic logic suggests the problem may be on the receiving end, rather than the sending end. Might want to get that checked out.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, I see the conflict. You want to talk about what is legal and illegal, where as I want to talk about what is right and wrong. Those two aren't even close to being the same thing. For instance, I believe that bad laws ought to be broken. That's how you get them changed.
As you stated, she is well within her rights under our legal system to want to control how her music is distributed. AND it is unethical to pirate that music that she doesn't want freely downloaded. AND it's unethical to plagarize someone else's work.
So, she is NOT a hypocrite for doing something illegal to complain about people doing something illegal, because that isn't an accurate description of what she did.
But she IS a hypocrite because she did something unethical to complain about people doing something unethical. Bingo! Hypocrisy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
A musician is not happy with people who download/upload SOMEONE ELSE's music WITH that SOMEONE ELSE's permission. Because she thinks he's selfish. Or something.
Learn to read.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
In the past two days...
As such, it's rather obvious that Lily Allen has just accepted whatever her label has told her without even attempting to think about the issue for herself.
She's just not intelligent enough for it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: In the past two days...
Judging by her blog, she's barely intelligent enough to use the English language.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I'm not coming here anymore...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I'm not coming here anymore...
I agree with you 100% on your views on piracy, suing to sustain failing business models and the like...
...but this isn't comparable to her point. The theory is the same, or the crime rather...copyright infringement. But that's as far as the analogy can go, logically.
Lily copying your post would not cost you any viewers/subscribers/page views. It could, however, cost you new viewers/subscribers/page views since someone may have been like "oh, that's brilliant" and came here to read more from you...but beyond that, you're not losing any *money* (I transitioned from viewers/subscribers/page views to "money" as I assume that's one source of income for bloggers).
However, filesharing does take money that the artist was previously making and turns that into a loss (fans who would've have paid before are now not paying for the music).
Now, like I said, I with you on your views...I believe the music should be a business card for the artist, but the analogy here is not so linear...
...but I could be missing something. I'd never challenge you on anything business related (I'm just a geek who finds this stuff interesting to help pass the day) -- but the logic in this analogy seems a bit flawed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I'm not coming here anymore...
Your problem is right here. The fallacy of this is assuming that:
1) Every downloader would have paid without the free access.
2) No filesharers bought the music after downloading.
3) Every downloader had heard of Lily Allen before.
You say that Mike is not losing money because people who had never read his articles have been pointed to them.
That's the same point for music sharing. The percentage of the population (and even the population of internet access) who have heard of Lily Allen is small, and the same can be said for the majority of artists. No one buys something they don't know exists, and that's the case for the majority of music - people aren't even aware of it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I'm not coming here anymore...
Presumably, TD recovers production costs (like CPU cycles, bandwidth, sys-admin time, etc.) through a revenue stream driven by page views. Allen unquestionably took some page views. Same same.
Admittedly, the _amount_ of harm is likely much smaller. But that is a distinction in degree, not in kind.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I'm not coming here anymore...
Maybe. MAYBE. But I'd also garner to bet that a) a lot of people downloading her shit NEVER would've checked her out had they had to pay b) a LOT of people who heard about her did so via torrents, downloads, sharing, burned CDs, etc, and wouldn't otherwise have been buying her future releases, concert tickets, merch, etc.
And like I just posted, I HAVE paid for her music before and now never will again because of her ignorant, poorly-informed, stupid ideology that hearing/having music "for free" doesn't make any money for her at the end of the day.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I'm not coming here anymore...
Wrong. Your statement makes no sense. At worst, it takes money the artist was previously making and returns it to zero. It cannot possibly turn previous profit into a loss. Here's an illustration: I have no money in my wallet. Somebody offers me five dollars to go run an errand for him. Someone else runs that errand for free, and I don't get five dollars. How much money do I have in my wallet?
Answer: Zero, NOT negative five dollars. I am no further ahead, but it is not a loss.
Besides, the distribution of that copy cost the artist no more than the distribution of Mike's articles cost Techdirt. Less, in fact, since Techdirt actually hosts the articles in question, and the artist does not. The artist stands to gain the same possible benefits that Techdirt does: increased exposure, expanded listener base, greater potential market.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: I'm not coming here anymore...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
She may be a hypocrite...
-CF
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I've never heard of Lily Allen before
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I love the use of scanned newspapers
http://idontwanttochangetheworld.blogspot.com/2009/09/press-coverage.html
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
and Joe just rolled in his grave....
http://www.anorak.co.uk/celebrities/lily-allen-blasts-file-sharing-and-radiohead.html
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That's easy to say but it ends up being a wash -- your "word" that you were going to buy something probably doesn't resonate with someone like this - she'd probably just roll out with "actions speak louder than words"...
I don't necessarily think she'd see me in any different light but regardless, I'm someone who HAS purchased her music. And I won't, ever again. Even if I was to suddenly be able to look past her personality and enjoy the stuff for what it is (fun pop), I'm not going to buy it. Period. Not now. I'm not supporting nonsense like this, I just wouldn't feel good about it.
So there you go, Lily. It goes both ways, moron.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hmm, apparently Lily has benefited greatly from free music
"Allen began working on music in earnest in 2002 and with her father’s help she was signed to Warner Bros. for a short time but released no music. In 2005 she began posting demos onto her MySpace page which was getting thousands of hits and eventually led to her signing with Regal Records."
Amazing isn't it? Early in her career she gave away her music for free (although she used a poor distribution tool) and gained fans and popularity through it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
apology accepted
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
An old joke
One is a display of cunning stunts and the other...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: An old joke
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: An old joke
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Apology Comment
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
File sharing no problem?
I have worked in the music business for 30 years, with all the greats...Michael, Whitney, Tina, Barbra...on over 200 albums.
Our business has been DESTROYED by file "sharing."
What a stupid word for "stealing."
We spent hundreds of hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars creating music, and then it is STOLEN. It is SHARING only if the OWNER decides it's sharing.
I don't give a shit whether you think that's "right" or not, 'cause you should have a choice too! If YOU want to work on your "articles" for FREE, that should be your CHOICE, just as if I DON'T want to give my shit away, that should be MY choice! I don't care if you think I'm an asshole, it's MY stuff.
This kind of thinking really pisses me off.
On top of it, it's just morally wrong. I know that probably doesn't mean much to most of you out there, as you've justified this in your mind.
"Music is too expensive."
Well so are BMW's, why don't you go steal one of those?
You thieves don't deserve good music, and in another 5 years you won't get it, as there will be no industry left. All the great players will get jobs, all the great, legendary engineers will retire...and you'll finally get the shit that's worth what you're paying....NOTHING.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: File sharing no problem?
No sir. I don't do drugs. But I do look at the actual evidence, and it shows no harm. I don't rely on anecdotes from people who can't adapt.
That is an obviously ignorant statement.
Except that the evidence suggests otherwise. As we were just discussing, the music industry's own experts have said the industry is increasing in size. Ditto for a recent study at Harvard. At the same time, artists who have embraced file sharing by using smart business models have reported making much more money than using other means.
It ain't file sharing that's the problem. It's having a bad business model.
Our business has been DESTROYED by file "sharing."
For an industry having its best year yet, that's pretty amusing.
We spent hundreds of hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars creating music, and then it is STOLEN. It is SHARING only if the OWNER decides it's sharing.
You can't steal something if someone else has it. We agree it may be infringing, but that's different than stealing. It's tough to discuss this with people who insist it's something it is not.
I don't give a shit whether you think that's "right" or not, 'cause you should have a choice too! If YOU want to work on your "articles" for FREE, that should be your CHOICE, just as if I DON'T want to give my shit away, that should be MY choice! I don't care if you think I'm an asshole, it's MY stuff.
No one has said otherwise. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It should be the artists' choice indeed. But the market is changing and those embracing file sharing are doing better. So... the *smart* choice is to embrace it.
The dumb choice is to... well, never mind.
On top of it, it's just morally wrong.
What is?
"Music is too expensive."
I've never said that in my life, so I don't know who it's directed to.
Well so are BMW's, why don't you go steal one of those?
Well, firstly, I'm not a BMW fan... but more importantly, if you steal a BMW, the original owner is missing it. That's a bit different than file sharing. But, I don't engage in file sharing of unauthorized works myself, so again, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
All I said was that file sharing is no killing the industry. That doesn't mean I engage in it.
You thieves don't deserve good music, and in another 5 years you won't get it, as there will be no industry left.
Again, the industry is larger than it's ever been and significantly more music is made today than ever before in history. Can you explain how that squares up with your statement above?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: File sharing no problem?
Our business has been DESTROYED by file "sharing."
"""
If this is true (most evidence suggests it is not), then there is a very simple and effective solution: find a new business.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: File sharing no problem?
Well, firstly, I don't engage in copyright violation. But I also don't buy RIAA label music. I purchase music directly from independent artists, after having been introduced to it via file sharing (authorized by the artists involved, not illegal). I havemore truly excellent music available to me than I will ever be able to listen to in my lifetime.
I truly hope that the traditional music industry goes away -- either out of business or begins doing business in an ethical and sustainable way. Because the traditional music business is a den of thieves and vipers, and the hypocrisy of hearing them make any attempts at ethical arguments is astonishing.
In any case, if the traditional music business died tomorrow, it would be of benefit to the music scene, not harm. The industry makes it very difficult for most artists to see a dime in income, and the internet (and so forth) is showing a way they can make music and money at the same time. Before, they were only making music.
Artists will still make and distribute excellent music. Not the same artists, perhaps, but ones of at least the same caliber. The traditional music business ensures uniformity and mediocrity, not excellence.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
File sharing no problem?
I have worked in the music business for 30 years, with all the greats...Michael, Whitney, Tina, Barbra...on over 200 albums.
Our business has been DESTROYED by file "sharing."
What a stupid word for "stealing."
We spent hundreds of hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars creating music, and then it is STOLEN. It is SHARING only if the OWNER decides it's sharing.
I don't give a shit whether you think that's "right" or not, 'cause you should have a choice too! If YOU want to work on your "articles" for FREE, that should be your CHOICE, just as if I DON'T want to give my shit away, that should be MY choice! I don't care if you think I'm an asshole, it's MY stuff.
This kind of thinking really pisses me off.
On top of it, it's just morally wrong. I know that probably doesn't mean much to most of you out there, as you've justified this in your mind.
"Music is too expensive."
Well so are BMW's, why don't you go steal one of those?
You thieves don't deserve good music, and in another 5 years you won't get it, as there will be no industry left. All the great players will get jobs, all the great, legendary engineers will retire...and you'll finally get the shit that's worth what you're paying....NOTHING.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: File sharing no problem?
Based on what I see coming out of the music industry lately that would be a blessed relief!
Bring it on!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
i don't really understand why this is so hard to get. she didn't know that the information here was free even though the creators of this website and it's content work very very hard like her as an artist but don't even make any kind of money like she does. she doensn't understand that she didn't give credit to the creator of the content or the website or the emailer, but she just did it. i don't understand how you can act or just do something and not know what you are doing, but then to go and preach about how we are infringing on her rights and how she's protected by copyright because that's one of the ways she makes money as an artist and that all those not like her or in agreement with her need to get kicked off the internets. man. i hope people are looking at what she's doing and discussing it. i love that she has put up her capital and backed her opinions with statments that people can now referr to from her pov, but that doesn't mean she's right. you know there has to be a middle ground and there has to be a sea change, which is already more than here. the riaa and people like lily allen cannot keep dragging their feet. people infringe every day and they just simply are not aware of what they do and it's effects. i mean if i don't buy your record but i go on a website that has uploaded all your content and i the visitor can listen to it, not even download, but just listening to it...just for that fact i need to be reprimanded because there are riaa trolls who feel so threatned because their business model that stood for so long but needs to be ammended, is faulty. something needs to happen. this discussion has been going on for longer than the internet, now the internet has exacerbated the riaa and it's pain and also other creators of content. fine. but i'm just saying that for all the rights creators have, don't forget the rights of consumers because consumers buy your products and all the time you make them feel like thieves and slander them and question their morals and make them feel like second rate. it's funny that when an industry needs me to buy something from them then they feel they need to target me through various means...but when they don't need anything from me they don't care and with that ambivalence you get a lot of angry consumers. consumers are not happy. we want to be at the table. we will buy, free or not free, but we expect these copyright protection agencies to keep up with what we the consumers are doing and change while we're changing. the model needs to be ammended. we're sorry that we, consumers, have changed and that you the industries haven't. but i have faith because not all consumers and artists are idots. we can coe-exist and change in tandem and that is what needs to happen.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lily Alan, don't apologise...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]