Gov't Trying Everything Possible Not To Give Up Telco Immunity Lobbying Records

from the not-so-transparent dept

Thu, Oct 8th 2009 7:58pm — Mike Masnick

Remember last month, when a court ordered the Obama administration to turn over records of who lobbied the administration for retroactive immunity for telcos concerning the warrantless wiretapping program? Yeah... well, it turns out the Obama administration isn't so keen on actually living up to that. First, it asked for a 60 day delay, so it could think about appealing (i.e., "give us time to stall, since telco immunity is being debated in Congress now, and we don't want this info out until afterwards"). However, the court said no, and said to hand over the info. And... yet again, the administration has now filed an emergency motion asking for 30 days to consider an appeal. It's difficult to see what this is other than a pure stall tactic. If the court already rejected the 60 day delay, why would it now turn around and grant a 30 day delay. All this is really serving to do is make people a lot more suspicious about what those records might show.

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Filed Under: immunity, lobbying, telcos, warrantless wiretapping

42 Comments

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TheStupidOne, 8 Oct 2009 @ 8:13pm

Short Answer
Obama Lies
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Oct 2009 @ 8:34pm

"If the court already rejected the 60 day delay, why would it now turn around and grant a 30 day delay."

Why, because they were offered higher bribes than before, of course.
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HolaJohnny (profile), 8 Oct 2009 @ 9:08pm

Re: Short Answer
"You Lie!" Sorry. I had to be the first to make a Joe Wilson reference. In all honesty I think they all lie. It is just a matter of whether we catch them with their hand in the cookie jar or if they manage to throw up that governmental smoke screen. Personally I think we need to start calling Shenanigans any time they make excuses for this sort of behavior.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:05pm

Obama is very transparent. He invites big corporations and lobbyists to his secretive meetings so he's being transparent with them. Who says Obama isn't transparent?
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Pwdrskir (profile), 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:36pm

WTF
Obama is not the first to put up the BS wall, but he ran on removing the BS wall.

Q: How do we the people actually get those in government to follow the law? Seriously, both parties (Democracy Inc.) have a strangle hold on the system and they lie to our faces. How do we stop the abuse of power?
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HolaJohnny (profile), 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:41pm

Re: WTF
Scary answer? We don't. So far we haven't done near enough.
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Esahc (profile), 8 Oct 2009 @ 11:33pm

Re: WTF
Rebellion
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anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:32am

Re: WTF
When people from all branches of government are working towards the same goal it doesn't matter what's written on their founding document.
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anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:34am

Because he knows
That himself and all the other democrats most likely in addition to the republicans and other will be implicated.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:36am

Re: Re: WTF
And thus the reason for the right to bear arms.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:44am

Re: Re: WTF
A little rebellion now and then is a good thing. - Thomas Jefferson
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anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:50am

Re: WTF
he's probably not the first one to run on removing that wall either.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 3:04am

Re: Re: Re: WTF
And thus the reason for the right to bear arms.

We have the right to have arms like bears, but not the ability.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 4:47am

Re: Re: Re: WTF
The reality is there's nothing you can do. Using rebellion/violence is ridiculous when you can solve the problem with votes.

The problem is the vast majority of voters in this country don't care. And you telling them to care is infinitely more offensive to them than telco lawbreaking.

The problem isn't telco's or dishonest leaders, it's people who tolerate it. McCain and Obama both lied in national televised debates. Did anyone really think the next president wouldn't always lie when it benefited them?
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End The Fed, 9 Oct 2009 @ 4:57am

You need to know something. YOUR VOTES DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING!!
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 6:37am

Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF
Who the fuck are we suppose to vote for? Democrats suck so we vote for Republicans, Republicans suck so we vote for Democrats. There is no political way for a third party to get voted into the office. Even if the majority of the citizens vote for a third party there is nothing forcing our Senators to vote the way we do, nor is there really a process for them to.

Then we get into the E-Voting machine conspiracy theory, but I'll let that to our resident conspiracy nut, Dark Helmet.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 6:38am

Re:
A. Love the name

B. They DO mean something, just not what we think. If we all actually voted the banker-backed politicians out of office, they would simply change the government to something more authoritarian and stay in power. The only way, unfortunately, to really affect true change in our corrupt government would take a VAST amount of rebellion and bloodshed. Sadly, I don't see that happening....
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 7:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF
Oddly, I know absolutely NOTHING about e-Voting machines or possible conspiracies surrounding them. I'm more read up on the global banking syndicates, their history, and the plethora of groups and "clubs" that have arisen out of their interests.

Globalism cares not for individual elections. The key to the conspiracies I see in action aren't to alter the votes to pick the man they want, but to make sure only the men they want are on the ballot, making the voting process meaningless.
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Anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 7:21am

4 Boxes
There are 4 boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: Soap, Jury, Ballot, and Ammo. Use in that order.
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Anon Reader, 9 Oct 2009 @ 7:53am

Then perhaps said ammo should be used not against the puppet politicians, but against the syndicates DH has mentioned. Strike at the serpent's head, and all that.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 8:09am

Re:
"Then perhaps said ammo should be used not against the puppet politicians, but against the syndicates DH has mentioned. Strike at the serpent's head, and all that."

Personally I advocate a more peaceful response on OUR side. The bloodshed will be ours, but I think it's important for global support that the popular uprising not be the first to strike with violence. There are ways to combat the international banks. I suggest a few relatively easy steps:

1. Research your banks and bank locally: Make sure your bank isn't owned by a multinational conglomerate. Anything affiliated with the Morgans, Rothschilds, Stanleys, or Rockefellers should be immediately nixed. Also, any bank owned in any significant part by members of the CFR or Trilateral Commission. BANK LOCALLY for any financing needs.

2. Pay in cash. The biggest trick ever pulled on the people of he world was interest enslavement via cumulative debt. Not owing people money is a very powerful thing.

3. Stay off the grid wherever you can. Prepay cell phones work just fine, and you can even get pretty ones with lots of toys and internet connections on them.

4. Fight for liberties (that span across both major political parties). Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you should take away something from someone else. Abortion, guns, education options, free all that shit up. Voice your opinion but take away no one's right to choose and/or defend themselves.

Just a few thoughts on a dreary Chicago morning....
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Gene Cavanaugh, 9 Oct 2009 @ 9:04am

Telco immunity
I can't see this as being embarrassing to anyone but the Republican administration (including in Congress) which depends on big money to stay in power.
I interpret this as Obama continuing his attempts to mend the "bipartisan" divide by extending an olive branch.
Isn't it interesting that "bipartisan", at one time, meant working together? It now means "doing it the Republican way, or else"!
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anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 9:21am

Re: Telco immunity
actually currently it means doing it the democratic way.
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Duchebag, 9 Oct 2009 @ 9:28am

This would be a non-issue if "The Great and Wise Almighty Bush" didn't grant it to cover HIS ass in the first place.

Keep blame'in obama for everything bad in your life.

Hell blame your wife cheating w/ your neighbor on obama. ITS HIS FAULT.
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Kyote (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 9:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF
"The reality is there's nothing you can do. Using rebellion/violence is ridiculous when you can solve the problem with votes."

Rebellion/violence IS a way to make the voters sit up and take notice.

Crap... I think the FBI is at my door, gotta run..
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batch, 9 Oct 2009 @ 10:51am

The DNC, when it was in Denver, at night there were parties held with people from the telecoms and democratic party getting along together, presumably lobbying/plotting for a time such as this.

Republican leaders are just as bad. They allowed this to happen in the first place.
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anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 11:02am

Re:
Yeah because Obama is the messiah pay no mind to the fact that he comes from one of the most openly corrupt states in the country he couldn't possibly be corrupt himself.
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johnney (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:01pm

Obam bin lyin' again?
POS prick is nothing but a shill con artist back-stabbing maggot.
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Freedom, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:17pm

This isn't about protecting the TelCos...
Let's just all remember that this isn't about protecting the TelCos. This is about protecting the government and the officials in it from going to jail! The TelCos were strong armed into doing things for "National Security" and basic, fundmental laws were broken in the process.

The only reason I can see that Obama is doing this is that both Republicians and Democrats were involved.

I'm on neither side of the political isle - they both frankly make me sick and have shown that they'll abuse their power when given a chance. This should highlight to those that think Obama can do no wrong and is a principled leader that he is just like most politicans right now. The truth is, you should judge a man by his actions and not by his words! His words are pretty, but his actions show the extreme ugliness of his character and total lack of principled leadership.

Freedom
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re:
"pay no mind to the fact that he comes from one of the most openly corrupt states"

Are you referring to Kenya or Hawaii

Love,

Dark Helmet (Chicagoan and Illinoisan)
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF
You can't solve the problem with votes. No matter who is put in office, that position WILL be abused. Come on now, thousands of years of the history of government makes that obvious. There has never been a type of government, nor a specific implementation of one, that has not been subject to corruption.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re:
And after all that rebellion and bloodshed, there's no guarantee that the resulting government would really be any better. So in the end, you really still don't accomplish much.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re:
I live here in Hawaii, and while the local government is no better than anywhere else in my opinion, I can't say that your claim has any merit. Where did you get this information?
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anon, 9 Oct 2009 @ 12:51pm

Re: Re: Re:
Illinois.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You must be getting bad info. We're entirely on the up and up. That's why 3 of our last 5 governors have had comfy state-paid housing, and some of them even hobnob with what are clearly A-list celebs like Heidi and Spencer.

Our city Mayors get elected term after term because they're good and honest (or superevil and corrupt, one of those two).

You should see our parking meter system...works perfectly! No hiccups!

(This comment was approved by the United States Olympic Committee and does not reflect the opinion of anyone with marginal use of their gray matter)
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hiptech (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 3:16pm

If Lobbyists formed a political party what would their platform be?

A few thoughts...

- Lobbyist... vote for us - you know where we stand.
- The Lobbyist party, transparency is all an illusion.
- Lobbyist - we work hard for the money.
- Lobbyists - power to the ppl (now show us the money).
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Dark Helmet (profile), 9 Oct 2009 @ 5:40pm

Re:
Lobbyists - Pay us in votes, and we'll be your bitch (you know, like politicians SHOULD be)...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Oct 2009 @ 9:25pm

Per the EFF website extolling "victory:

But in today's order, the judge ruled that as the communications were with Congress and lobbyists, the exemptions did not apply.

Assuming this to be true and the basis for a decision in favor of the EFF's FOIA request, the court's alleged statement to the FOIA exemptions do not apply is non-sensical.

As I understand the facts, the FOIA request was directed to documents in the possession of two executive agencies. Last time I looked executive agencies are not Congress. Hence, for the court to supposedly rule in favor on the basis described by the EFF is totally out of "whack" with FOIA and its enumerated exceptions (about 7 in total).

I can well understand why the executive branch would not look kindly on what appears to be a fundamental misunderstanding and misapplication of FOIA. If the agencies to decide nevertheless to comply, it would likely be as the result of what the "boss" has said, and not because the law so mandates.

Again, this is NOT a battle about the public's right to know, and suggestions to the contrary are truly disingenuous. This is a battle about the right of individual plaintiffs to pursue claims they had pending in our courts that were summarily dismissed when immunity was granted. What the EFF and its allies are really trying to do is give back to these plaintiffs the right for their lawsuits to continue.

Of course, it is appropriate to consider whether or not it is fair to allow private rights of action against telephone companies who were almost certainly strong-armed into compliance with the wishes of the USG. It is also appropriate to consider the extent to which the disclosure of certain documents may inflict substantial damage on ongoing national security investigations.

It is not a question that admits to an easy answer. Things in life are not always black and white.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2009 @ 6:06am

Re:
As I understand the facts, the FOIA request was directed to documents in the possession of two executive agencies. Last time I looked executive agencies are not Congress.

The court didn't that say they were either. The court was saying that the communications were:
a. between the executive agencies and Congress
*and*
b. between the executive agencies and lobbyists.

Understand now?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2009 @ 6:12am

Re:
Things in life are not always black and white.

And that's why we have courts to sort things out. But the people involved with these illegal wiretaps don't want that because they know they've done wrong.
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slander (profile), 10 Oct 2009 @ 6:57am

Re: Telco immunity
I can't see this as being embarrassing to anyone but the Republican administration (including in Congress) which depends on big money to stay in power.
Isn't that cute? He thinks that only the Republicans depend on Big Money.
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elpookie, 10 Oct 2009 @ 6:28pm

telco
Next stop, 9th Cir. Depending on the panel they draw, extension may be granted but it is doubtful. Then emergency request to the USSCt. Do no recall the Justice responsible for requests from this Cir. but delay is in the cards. If not, there will be production but it will be so heavly re-dacted (nationa security/executive privilege) that it will be meaningless.
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